Zimmerman - Guilty of Murder or Self Defense

[parrot 789]

 

Absolutely. I thought the defense did a good job showing that she can hardly even form a thought, and her perceptions are suspect, hell....she can barely answer even the simplest of questions.

I haven't watched much of it, but the commentators I have seen are raking Zimmerman's lawyer over the coals for largely dropping the ball and not really hammering her on her inconsistencies and bias. Fox even suggested that he might already have grounds for appeal due to ineffective counsel.

[RLLD 3,539]

I haven't watched much of it, but the commentators I have seen are raking Zimmerman's lawyer over the coals for largely dropping the ball and not really hammering her on her inconsistencies and bias. Fox even suggested that he might already have grounds for appeal due to ineffective counsel.

 

His lawyer is rather clumsy over all, does not really seem to have a well-conceived plan of attack on her, but his bumbling is actually showing just how completely stupid this person is, and in the process no one in their right mind would trust anything she has to say.

[The Moz 69]

We know Trayvon ambushed GZ and beat the hell out of him. We know that GZ shot him point blank in the chest.

 

The so called 911 "scream" tapes. are a few seconds of someone screaming that are most likely by GZ as Trayvon's own father said it wasn't his son when he first heard it -- only to change his story (a pattern here).

 

The case now is about 1 thing did GZ shoot him while standing up or in a position of superiority? or did he shoot him while taking a beating? -- unless there is some crazy ass trajectory on the chest wound -- this will never be able to be proven. Absolutley no chance at Murder 2. At Manslaughter - to convict him of manslaughter IMO sets a really shitty precedent - not saying I wouldn't be able to understand it in some way just how do you know you aren't in danger for your life just because the person attacking you doesn't have a weapon?

[Mungwater 589]

I haven't watched much of it, but the commentators I have seen are raking Zimmerman's lawyer over the coals for largely dropping the ball and not really hammering her on her inconsistencies and bias. Fox even suggested that he might already have grounds for appeal due to ineffective counsel.

I'm just listening to it on the radio, it's pretty obvious she is a pretty bad witness, I don't think that hammering her would have been beneficial in front of an all female jury.

[BLS 313]

 

 

I hope the 911 tapes and other evidence is what they are hanging their hat on other wise this witness just saved GZ.

 

Seriously not trying to be argumentative; but what on the 911 calls or other evidence out there does NOT support GZ?

[The Moz 69]

 

 

I hope the 911 tapes and other evidence is what they are hanging their hat on other wise this witness just saved GZ.

911 scream tapes prove nothing either way and would be thought of as more likely GZ than Tray. are there other tapes?

 

As for evidence I am pretty sure everything that exists we already know about. The gun , the injuries, and the skittles

[Vikings4ever 496]

We know Trayvon ambushed GZ and beat the hell out of him. We know that GZ shot him point blank in the chest.

 

The so called 911 "scream" tapes. are a few seconds of someone screaming that are most likely by GZ as Trayvon's own father said it wasn't his son when he first heard it -- only to change his story (a pattern here).

 

The case now is about 1 thing did GZ shoot him while standing up or in a position of superiority? or did he shoot him while taking a beating? -- unless there is some crazy ass trajectory on the chest wound -- this will never be able to be proven. Absolutley no chance at Murder 2. At Manslaughter - to convict him of manslaughter IMO sets a really shitty precedent - not saying I wouldn't be able to understand it in some way just how do you know you aren't in danger for your life just because the person attacking you doesn't have a weapon?

According to the police report, Martin was found face down, meaning he was almost certainly shot while standing or on his knees. If the ballistics show any upward angle of the bullett, that essentially proves Zimmerman was on the ground when he fired.

[Bert 1,108]

 

Seriously not trying to be argumentative; but what on the 911 calls or other evidence out there does NOT support GZ?

I don't know. I really havn't followed this closely but they have to have something more than this crazy racist broad. Right?

[The Moz 69]

 

Seriously not trying to be argumentative; but what on the 911 calls or other evidence out there does NOT support GZ?

Everything out there either supports GZ's story or at worst can't be proven either way. A jury almost has to acquit here but strange things happen - hell they let OJ go free - and they had everything but a video of him doing it

[IGotWorms 3,427]

They thought so. Unfortunately for them it seems she wasn't entirely truthful when speaking with them originally. I have to think the state may not have charged GZ with murder 2 if she had just told the truth to begin with.

The state knew she wasn't a good witness going in. Everyone following the case knew that. So I really can't imagine they were planning to hang their hat on her testimony.

 

I will say though that without expert voice analysis on the tape and the way certain witnesses have been impeached (the lady who said she saw Zimmerman on top but then admitted she wasn't sure, Martin's dumbass friend caught in a web of lies and mouth breathing stupudity), murder two does seem like an over-charge at this point. I believe that if they could go back and do it again they might've gone with manslaughter instead.

 

Of course in some ways it doesn't matter since manslaughter is a leser-included offense, but now the defense gets to highlight the weakness of the murder charge which may color the jury's analysis of the lesser charges.

[wiffleball 4,679]

One thing that really ticked me off was the juxtaposition of two different current events that overwhelmingly show the obvious double-standard in black/white speak:

 

 

Attorney to McGilla Gorilla: "Is the word 'cracker' used much in your environment? "

MG: "Yes, sir".

Attorney (same thing for Nigga)

MG: "Yes sir".

 

Yet, a 61 y.o. southern woman who used the N word 2 dozen years ago? Oh focking crucify her.

[5-Points 2,779]

The state knew she wasn't a good witness going in. Everyone following the case knew that. So I really can't imagine they were planning to hang their hat on her testimony.

 

I will say though that without expert voice analysis on the tape and the way certain witnesses have been impeached (the lady who said she saw Zimmerman on top but then admitted she wasn't sure, Martin's dumbass friend caught in a web of lies and mouth breathing stupudity), murder two does seem like an over-charge at this point. I believe that if they could go back and do it again they might've gone with manslaughter instead.

 

Of course in some ways it doesn't matter since manslaughter is a leser-included offense, but now the defense gets to highlight the weakness of the murder charge which may color the jury's analysis of the lesser charges.

All the media I saw yesterday referred to her as the "star witness" but I guess that is the media's description not the prosecution's.

 

FWIW I think the rest of your post is spot on.

[The Moz 69]

Is there a special charity to send money in support of those poor Korean corner store owners who are the ones that stand to bear the true brunt of this charade!

[Voltaire 4,584]

This is their spherical witness (maybe ovoid witness). You'll know the star witness when he arrives because he'll be wearing a zoot suit.

[Strike 4,086]

Eyewitnes says Trayvon Martin was pounding GZ ala MMA ground and pound and that GZ was screaming. Is there really any need to continue this charade?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

The two star witnesses for the prosecution turn out to be star witnesses for the defense.

 

Is Worms prosecuting this debacle?

[The Moz 69]

Eyewitnes says Trayvon Martin was pounding GZ ala MMA ground and pound and that GZ was screaming. Is there really any need to continue this charade?

Those poor Korean store owner never hurt anyone. Oh well hope they gots fire insurance as Zimmy is getting off scott free.

[The Moz 69]

The two star witnesses for the prosecution turn out to be star witnesses for the defense.

 

Is Worms prosecuting this debacle?

I wonder if Worms after the last 2 testimonies by prosecution witnesses - will still come here and rant on how GZ needs to go to jail/Prison for at least Manslaughter?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I wonder if Worms after the last 2 testimonies by prosecution witnesses - will still come here and rant on how GZ needs to go to jail/Prison for at least Manslaughter?

He has had GZ convicted of everything from jaywalking to murder 1, so he still has his bases covered.

[5-Points 2,779]

The two star witnesses for the prosecution turn out to be star witnesses for the defense.

 

Is Worms prosecuting this debacle?

It's almost like they know Zimmerman's version is the truth and they don't want to send an innocent man to jail. The only reason they are there is because of the trumped up racism accusations and they know it.

 

ETA: By "they" I mean the prosecution.

[Voltaire 4,584]

They have witnesses attesting that it was Zimmerman screaming? Wow.

 

That's new information and extremly relevant.

[The Moz 69]

They have witnesses attesting that it was Zimmerman screaming? Wow.

 

That's new information and extremly relevant.

While relevant hardly new. Didn't take a rocket scientist to know that was GZ screaming -- what is relevant is we now know it was while being hit and not to try and cover for himself as a reason to shoot.

[RLLD 3,539]

I am just grateful to not have to hear that retard girl mumble her way through questions any more.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I am just grateful to not have to hear that retard girl mumble her way through questions any more.

You mean "Star Witness".

[RLLD 3,539]

The oriental guy appears to have been taught how to speak, yay

[The Moz 69]

Seriously watching this prosecutor I think I am watching the Movie sleepers. Like he is trying to lose... You generally put witnesses up to help your case not to be a slam dunk for the other guy

[Voltaire 4,584]

While relevant hardly new. Didn't take a rocket scientist to know that was GZ screaming -- what is relevant is we now know it was while being hit and not to try and cover for himself as a reason to shoot.

There was no evidence of this at all. It's new. Experts in this sort of thing (who were not allowed by the judge to testify) claimed it was not Zimmerman doing the screaming. And while we knew there were eyewitnesses (this one was on top ... blah blah blah ... I hadn't heard any of them mention the screaming until now).

 

That they're coming down on Zimmerman as the screamer is huge.

[The Moz 69]

There was no evidence of this at all. It's new. Experts in this sort of thing (who were not allowed by the judge to testify) claimed it was not Zimmerman doing the screaming. And while we knew there were eyewitnesses (this one was on top ... blah blah blah ... I hadn't heard any of them mention the screaming until now).

 

That they're coming down on Zimmerman as the screamer is huge.

NO -- just as many "experts" said it was GZ as said it was Trayvon -- BUT Trayvon's own father said it wasn't his son after he first heard it. Then of course changed his mind.

[Voltaire 4,584]

NO -- just as many "experts" said it was GZ as said it was Trayvon -- BUT Trayvon's own father said it wasn't his son after he first heard it. Then of course changed his mind.

You'll need a link for that. That's not how I recall it.

 

Not that it matters anymore since they have witnesses.

[Vikings4ever 496]

You'll need a link for that. That's not how I recall it.

 

Not that it matters anymore since they have witnesses.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/state-audio-expert-ids-trayvon-martins-voice-in-911-calls/-/1637132/20139744/-/jprcrxz/-/index.html

 

 

Audio experts gave differing opinions on whether screams for help captured on 911 calls were those of neighborhood watch leader George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old he fatally shot last year.

 

The state released its 16th supplemental discovery on Tuesday, which shows the findings from one of the state's audio experts, who say Martin is heard in the background of a 911 call saying "stop" -- not "help," as previously believed.

 

...

 

In another report released by the state, the second team of audio experts say some of the screams were from Martin, and others were made by Zimmerman and the call was difficult to distinguish the difference.

 

Local 6 spoke to Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, who says the fact that the state's audio experts' findings are conflicting will need to be settled at a hearing on May 28.

[BLS 313]

Zimmerman is gonna walk unless there's a fix.

 

2 cops and a very intelligent eye witness all basically said Zimmerman was on the ground screaming for help and being beaten by Martin.

 

Both cops testified he had a broken and swollen nose, his back was very wet and covered in grass. Martin's pants were dry except for the front of his pants from the knee down. (both indicate Martin in a 'ground and pound' position).

 

EW testifies that guy on top was darker skinned and wearing dark shirt. Guy on bottom who was screaming for help was in red or light colored shirt.

 

Here's the red jacket: http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/images/2012/05/GEORGE-ZIMMERMAN-BODY-0517.jpg

 

Martin's black hoodie (notice also his pants are wet from the knee down): http://www.drudge.com/resources/trayvon-martin-body-trial-photo.jpg

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Zimmerman is gonna walk unless there's a fix.

 

2 cops and a very intelligent eye witness all basically said Zimmerman was on the ground screaming for help and being beaten by Martin.

 

Both cops testified he had a broken and swollen nose, his back was very wet and covered in grass. Martin's pants were dry except for the front of his pants from the knee down. (both indicate Martin in a 'ground and pound' position).

 

EW testifies that guy on top was darker skinned and wearing dark shirt. Guy on bottom who was screaming for help was in red or light colored shirt.

 

Here's the red jacket: http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/images/2012/05/GEORGE-ZIMMERMAN-BODY-0517.jpg

 

Martin's black hoodie (notice also his pants are wet from the knee down): http://www.drudge.com/resources/trayvon-martin-body-trial-photo.jpg

Those some nice sneakers he has on.

[BLS 313]

Also, it appears Trayon's father was a CRIP at some point.

 

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/07/14/update-33-trayvon-martin-shooting-the-bloom-is-off-the-ruse-the-gang-connections/

[BLS 313]

Those some nice sneakers he has on.

 

It's a good thing he was in a decent neighborhood, or somebody would've stole em before the po-po showed up.

[Mungwater 589]

I think the defense should end on a joke too, make Zimmerman try on the red jacket again.

 

"don't fit, must acquit!"

[IGotWorms 3,427]

Not a good day for the prosecution. They got a few hits in re: Zimmerman's MMA training and the not really significant cuts on the back of his head, but the defense brought out plenty of stuff to support its case on cross-examination.

 

Not sure how many witnesses the prosecution has left. At this point I'd think they'd have a tough time with a halftime motion to dismiss the murder charge.

[drobeski 3,061]

I think it was self-defense. He was scared and the guy was on top of him. I think this verdict is an important one in letting thug criminals know that they're taking their own life in their hands when they put others at risk.

Possibly the most logical thing you have ever posted.

Was it sarcasm ?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

. At this point I'd think they'd have a tough time with a halftime motion to dismiss the murder charge.

Why?

 

Has the prosecution's case done anything to prove murder?

[The Moz 69]

 

 

Has the prosecution's case done anything to prove murder?

No, but they have done a great Job of proving it was self defense though. I am starting to think if Zimmerman calls any witnesses of his own it could only hurt

[wiffleball 4,679]

Btw - who are you calling 'boy'?