penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 My only moral issue with eating meat is the way the animals are kept, not the fact that they are slaughtered. And I'm not saying it necessarily moral but like everyone else including you in guessing I make concessions out of convenience. Unless you're telling me you lead a zero impact lifestyle that in no way exploits animals, the environment, other people etc. Which I highly doubt. Zero impact is impossible. Being a vegetarian is a pretty easy way to minimize your impact though, as long as your mind is open to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryHill9323 65 Posted November 20, 2014 True. But we likely caused that problem, too. On some level, are you suggesting eating meat is more humane than not? I'm saying I eat meat guilt free. I don't look down on hunters either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 I'm saying I eat meat guilt free. I don't look down on hunters either. Great. How do you feel about vegans? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted November 20, 2014 The difference is, we've evolved enough to have other food options, and to limit our impact on our prey. Or eliminate killing altogether. But your last statement is ridiculous, as I'm sure more than a few animals hunted by man have experienced more prolonged, agonizing deaths than the mountain lion's attack. Even if every shot was an instant kill, we have no inherent right to kill just because we can. I'm just trying to understand your position on suffering and why you think it's a relevant criteria in some cases, but not in others. It kinda seems like you only care about "animal suffering" insofar as you can use it to criticize people. My last statement said that deer suffered more than all the animals I have ever shot. Nothing ridiculous about that since it's true. In fact it's probably not particularly close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryHill9323 65 Posted November 20, 2014 Great. How do you feel about vegans? I don't worry about them. They are free to do whatever they want, just don't try to push it on me or act like you are superior because of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,494 Posted November 20, 2014 Zero impact is impossible. Being a vegetarian is a pretty easy way to minimize your impact though, as long as your mind is open to it. Zero impact may be impossible but I am guessing you wear clothes that are made in part by animals, personally use or presecribe pharmaceuticals that were tested on animals, drive a car that's fueled by oil that comes from political regimes you don't support, etc. So like everybody else you're cutting corners and living with a certain level of hypocrisy. Your smug sense of self regard is uncommon though, at least among non-doctors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
porkbutt 893 Posted November 20, 2014 wow penny is such a treehugger even the usual libbo queers are aligning against him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745 Posted November 20, 2014 Zero impact is impossible. Being a vegetarian is a pretty easy way to minimize your impact though, as long as your mind is open to it. More small animals die in grain production than are killed for food. You vegetarians are just specist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldMaid 2,130 Posted November 20, 2014 I don't have a problem with Pen's message, but I do feel like he's trying to shame us for some reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rholio 339 Posted November 20, 2014 Great. How do you feel about vegans? Can't stand the little fockers. Every vegan I've known (small sample size, less than 20) has the same problem. All they are, is vegan. It's all they talk about, no matter what the situation. It's like they become pod people from a bad movie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 1,251 Posted November 20, 2014 Can't stand the little fockers. Every vegan I've known (small sample size, less than 20) has the same problem. All they are, is vegan. It's all they talk about, no matter what the situation. It's like they become pod people from a bad movie.its like a religion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sho Nuff 720 Posted November 20, 2014 wow penny is such a treehugger even the usual libbo queers are aligning against him. Unlike your ilk...the "libbo"s don't just fall in line with each other because of political leanings. We actually think for ourselves. BTW...dynamite use of pathetic insults...fantastic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted November 20, 2014 Killing plants is still killing. HTH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,790 Posted November 20, 2014 more people die every year from deer strikes on the highway then lightning strikes. Yet nobody whines when we shoot lightning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 I'm just trying to understand your position on suffering and why you think it's a relevant criteria in some cases, but not in others. It kinda seems like you only care about "animal suffering" insofar as you can use it to criticize people. My last statement said that deer suffered more than all the animals I have ever shot. Nothing ridiculous about that since it's true. In fact it's probably not particularly close. I've said it several times; we can choose not to contribute to animal suffering, a lion cannot. And really we can only guess how much an animal suffers as it is killed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 Killing plants is still killing. HTH Plants aren't sentient. HTH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 I don't worry about them. They are free to do whatever they want, just don't try to push it on me or act like you are superior because of it. That is the same way I feel about meat eaters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 Zero impact may be impossible but I am guessing you wear clothes that are made in part by animals, personally use or presecribe pharmaceuticals that were tested on animals, drive a car that's fueled by oil that comes from political regimes you don't support, etc. So like everybody else you're cutting corners and living with a certain level of hypocrisy. Your smug sense of self regard is uncommon though, at least among non-doctors. Right. Minimize being the key word. I'm not saying that makes me better than any of you, though I think you are fooling yourself if you think much of the meat you eat is produced in a humane fashion. The hunters make a much better argument: at least they know the conditions under which their food is slaughtered and can assume wild game lived in a natural environment before death. Given a certain level of hypocrisy is involved with defending animal cruelty/exploitation, at what point can anyone promote being a vegetarian? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 wow penny is such a treehugger even the usual libbo queers are aligning against him. They need to hear it from the mouth of master Obama. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 More small animals die in grain production than are killed for food. You vegetarians are just specist. That is a myth, when one considers grain feeds the livestock which we eat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 I don't have a problem with Pen's message, but I do feel like he's trying to shame us for some reason. No, I'm only trying to shame you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 Can't stand the little fockers. Every vegan I've known (small sample size, less than 20) has the same problem. All they are, is vegan. It's all they talk about, no matter what the situation. It's like they become pod people from a bad movie. The "angry vegan" is a bad stereotype, and not nearly universal. I didn't start this topic, but just expanded on Edjr's statements about hunters. IRL I avoid talking about my diet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 its like a religion. Kinda like smoking pot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 Unlike your ilk...the "libbo"s don't just fall in line with each other because of political leanings. We actually think for ourselves. BTW...dynamite use of pathetic insults...fantastic. Where the he!! were you at the team meeting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 more people die every year from deer strikes on the highway then lightning strikes. Yet nobody whines when we shoot lightning. It's delicious on gluten-free bread! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,494 Posted November 20, 2014 Right. Minimize being the key word. I'm not saying that makes me better than any of you, though I think you are fooling yourself if you think much of the meat you eat is produced in a humane fashion. The hunters make a much better argument: at least they know the conditions under which their food is slaughtered and can assume wild game lived in a natural environment before death. Given a certain level of hypocrisy is involved with defending animal cruelty/exploitation, at what point can anyone promote being a vegetarian? I wonder how many of the prescriptions you write help subsidize pharma companies that slaughter animals to develop boner drugs and the like? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldMaid 2,130 Posted November 20, 2014 No, I'm only trying to shame you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 I wonder how many of the prescriptions you write help subsidize pharma companies that slaughter animals to develop boner drugs and the like? Or how many lives of meat eaters I've extended to gorge themselves on factory animals? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,494 Posted November 20, 2014 Or how many lives of meat eaters I've extended to gorge themselves on factory animals? Exactly. Sounds like you're the biggest hypocrite here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted November 20, 2014 Exactly. Sounds like you're the biggest hypocrite here. I hope you and Edjr didn't use up all the sand. Also, Drobeski said it was OK for me to criticize eating meat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mungwater 597 Posted November 20, 2014 There is an axis buck that hangs out on my in laws ranch, I saw him last year and his antlers must have been over 3 feet. I've never hunted in my life, but I could've taken that guy out off the porch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mookz 1,349 Posted November 20, 2014 Find an apex predator. Maybe a cougar. I didn't take you for the type to discourage tiny house living, but okay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mmmmm...beer 807 Posted November 20, 2014 Right. Minimize being the key word. I'm not saying that makes me better than any of you, though I think you are fooling yourself if you think much of the meat you eat is produced in a humane fashion. Really? Tell me just how horrible most cattle ranchers treat their animals? I grew up raising cattle with the rest of my family in Montana, Oregon, and North Dakota. My mom and dad still run about 70 head of mainly hereford, but we've also raised grassfed, hormone free, red and black angus, highlander, and belted galloway. I've worked on numerous cattle ranches in North and South Dakota growing up, wrestling calves during branding. It's how I made money during the summers in high school. Cattle ranchers dedicate their lives to treating their animals well and making sure they're taken care of so they can sell heavy, healthy beef cow. This bullsh!t notion that the poor widdle animals are sufferwing when they're killed is focking stupid. Though I'm sure you read a lot being a learned man, so you must know more than the folks that produce said tainted, stockyard meat you allude. I've been around it my whole life and have never seen this gorky park slaughter yard you speak of. Veggies don't like meat... we get it. Don't throw out some redic reason you pull out of your @ss though as a reason why you don't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rholio 339 Posted November 20, 2014 The "angry vegan" is a bad stereotype, and not nearly universal. I didn't start this topic, but just expanded on Edjr's statements about hunters. IRL I avoid talking about my diet. Oh, they weren't angry, they were just smug as hell. Until this thread, I never knew you were vegan... you sound so normal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,494 Posted November 21, 2014 I hope you and Edjr didn't use up all the sand. Also, Drobeski said it was OK for me to criticize eating meat. You can, but you might want to tone down the holier than though attitude if you're arguably an even greater contributor to animal suffering than the meat eaters you deride. I also wouldn't hang my hat on drobeski agreeing with you. He's widely known to be a focking retard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted November 21, 2014 I hope you and Edjr didn't use up all the sand. Also, Drobeski said it was OK for me to criticize eating meat. it is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloaca du jour 2,151 Posted November 21, 2014 If you anti hunting tools understood anything about ecology you would shut up. Without hunting...whitetail populations would baloon to huge numbers. Yay..Happy Bambi. Then winter comes....awww...there isnt enough food for the Bambies and the begin to get sick and die..... Auto insurance..goes even higher from multiple car crashes.... Pestilence and disease from rotting deer carcasses pollutes water supplies.... Scavenger populations boom....rabies outbreaks ensue... Hunting keeps all of this in check...its a neccesity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the newb 23 Posted November 21, 2014 so...anyone killing anything? season's a little over a week away here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloaca du jour 2,151 Posted November 21, 2014 so...anyone killing anything? season's a little over a week away here My buddy got 2 so far...hes hooked me up with some good stuff for the freezer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted November 21, 2014 Plants aren't sentient. HTH.nonsentientaphobe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites