NFL: 11 of 12 Pat's balls under inflated.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

 

X

 

KSB wrong again.

 

I wonder what other misinformation has been put out there

[mighty_thor 115]

All evidence so far indicates cheating by your team. But as long as we are on the subject of "the onus is on those claiming" something.......Howsabout you prove your claim it was the weather that deflated the Cheatriots balls 2 psi, yet didn't affect the Colts balls.

 

I'll hang up and listen.....

 

NBC's mike florio's NFL sources indicate that they may have been close to 1 PSI under. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

 

But what has the NFL really found? As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI.

The NFL has yet to share specific information regarding the PSI measurements of the balls that were confiscated and measured at halftime. Which has allowed the perception of cheating to linger, fueled by the confirmation from Friday that the NFL found underinflated balls, but that the NFL still doesn’t know how they came to be that way.

 

 

If the colts inflated their footballs to 13.5 and they lost 1 psi, they would still be in compliance. Also, the Patriots have said that their preparation of the footballs, rubbing them up, may have cased the psi to increase by as much as a psi when they were first handed over the refs. The colts may have prepared their footballs differently.

 

 

Here is a miami writer who did a little experiment and saw the pressure drop a half a psi just by temperature without rubbing the ball up. Crude experiment but lets see others do the same instead just dismissing it.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dave-hyde-commentary-0126-20150125-column.html?track=rss

[KSB2424 3,173]

 

X

 

 

So you found a conflicting report.

 

You do know what....

 

may have been

 

means right?

[Mike Honcho 5,435]

Bill Nye is a mechanical engineer.

 

The heads of physics for both Boston College and Carnegie Mellon independently reviewed what Belichick said and both said that it was correct. Of course, that was based on 11 of the 12 balls being 2psi underinflated as opposed to the "closer to 1psi" that is being reported by ProFootballTalk. If they were 1 psi under at halftime and the NFL has no evidence that any air was removed, then you have to think that the NFL is not going to do anything at all.

 

Reviewed....

 

 

 

Although not all were ready to endorse the Patriots’ theory, the scientists contacted Sunday agreed that the team’s explanations do not defy the laws of nature.

 

“Everything they said doesn’t seem impossible to me,” said James Bird, an assistant professor of mechanical engineering at Boston University. “Based on simple ideal-gas-law calculations, I would not be surprised if the Patriots are vindicated. That said, there are many unknowns that can make small differences. . . . ”

 

In his press conference Saturday, Belichick explained that the team had conducted a simulation to determine how the air pressure could have dropped. Along with cooler temperatures, he also offered another factor: The team routinely rubs the balls to break them in, a process that he said can raise the air pressure by heating the ball. Then, he said, the pressure could drop once the balls were turned over to the referees.

 

Michael J. Naughton, chairman of the physics department at Boston College, called the ball-rubbing argument “technically possible.”

 

 

 

 

L. Mahadevan, a professor of applied mathematics, physics, and biology at Harvard, also found Belichick’s argument within the realm of possibility. “If the ball was just at regulation pressure indoors after the players had worked with it, it very well could depressurize a little — but that depends on the temperature difference, all other things being equal (which may not be the case),” he wrote in an e-mail.

 

 

Mahadevan estimated that a drop from 80 degrees to 53 degrees would cause the pressure to fall from 12.5 to 11.9 pounds per square inch.

Mahadevan’s calculations explain only a small drop in pressure, but not one as great as the 2 pounds per square inch that had been reported.

 

[RLLD 4,275]

I'm glad to see you guys are finally realizing there is no evidence they cheated.

 

I understand your desire to save face with "well they probably still did it," but a man who truly believed I personal accountability would admit he was wrong and apologize to Patriots fans

 

Accountability is something that would be warmly welcome here, but it would be unwise for the Patriots to step up and admit their actions, though it would set a strong example to the people (notably kids) in this nation of how one should not conduct themselves.

 

Instead the message is clear, deny, avoid, deflect.....get away with whatever you can. We can lament this, but the Patriots are not completely useless here, we can still point to them as an example of how not to be.

 

If nothing else, as a teaching tool, they have a certain value, not unlike Enron.

[edjr 6,898]

Not even sure there is enough egg in the world for the amount that will be needed for all the haters faces.

[Mike Honcho 5,435]

The Patriots are cheaters, not idiots, I think their answers thus far did a good job hedging against any later discovery that can nail them, and I think they made a calculated decision to do this and knew very well that the likelihood of being actually penalized is pretty low.

 

It was interesting that they felt they had to do this against the Colts, I guess they either have become blase about this way of cheating or perhaps wanted to ensure no issues, while they needed it to likely beat Baltimore, I do not think they needed it to beat the Colts.

 

Expect them to learn from this and do a much better job of avoiding getting caught in the future, we likely won't ever discover all the little ways they dance over and across the line, and each time they get caught they will get better at hiding the cheating.

 

If you read the article I posted earlier, the author draws the conclusion that Patriots may have been cheating for quite some time to gain an advantage in bad weather games, not just against the Colts

[IGotWorms 4,063]

I'm beginning to suspect I was wrong to accuse the Pats but I don't know how to extricate myself gracefully

Yeah, it's obvious

[RLLD 4,275]

 

If you read the article I posted earlier, the author draws the conclusion that Patriots may have been cheating for quite some time to gain an advantage in bad weather games, not just against the Colts

 

 

My question, if that is true, would be why it took so long to noodle it out, and what advantage would be gained in conditions other than really cold.

 

I am not sure how long they may have been doing this, it might just be only in the last few years. It seems as though doing it all the time would be unwise, saving it only for when you really need it makes more sense. Playoffs for sure, always in the cold, always at home, easier to flout the rules and avoid getting caught.

 

I doubt it was an every game thing, and I would reason that it was likely something from only this year or last.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

I've also realized evidence won't be unearthed on this alleged incident so I am attempting to shift the goal posts

That's a different way of dealing with it I guess

[IGotWorms 4,063]

 

We know.....

Doubling down on your liar bit. Remind me to laugh in your face next time you go on some holier-than-thou personal accountability rant

[KSB2424 3,173]

 

Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2015, 3:03 PM EST

 

 

 

 

Belichick 2 - NFL 0

 

 

Are you counting Spygate as a "Win" ?

 

Because:

 

After an investigation, the NFL fined Patriots head coach Bill Belichick $500,000 (the maximum allowed by the league and the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in the league's 87-year history) for his role in the incident, fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked the team their original first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft which would have been the 31st pick of the draft.^[3] The fine garnered significant media attention for being the "maximum amount" an individual could be fined.

[Mike Honcho 5,435]

That's a different way of dealing with it I guess

 

You really should earn what shifting the goal posts means, the people accusing you of cheating can't shift the goal posts(goal posts set at proving cheating)... seriously, you argue law and don't understand a simple logical arguement?

[drobeski 3,061]

 

X

 

yeah they'll ignore that and stay in their fairy tale world of the patriots had to have cheated

Who cares if Brady played better once the refs fixed the balls the refs focked up.

Facts be dammed

 

[IGotWorms 4,063]

I've decided to deflect by bringing up an incident from seven years ago

 

I think this will be the main play

[drobeski 3,061]

Not even sure there is enough egg in the world for the amount that will be needed for all the haters faces.

[KSB2424 3,173]

I think this will be the main play

 

edjr brought it up. Try and keep up.

[RLLD 4,275]

I guess we just wait until after the SB for the NFL to announce the fines etc, pointless to constantly belabor the point. Pat's fans refuse to accept their team was in the wrong, the rest of us refuse to accept that they weren't.

 

I doubt we ever find any common ground here,

[KSB2424 3,173]

 

the rest of us refuse to accept that they weren't.

 

 

 

This isn't true.

 

People who weren't "there" only have whats been reported to go on to draw logical conclusions. If everything that was first reported all last week, was wrong, and new reports or facts come out, then those logical conclusions can and should change.

 

For example if the NFL comes out with a report that the officials did NOT test the balls before the game, contrary to whats been reported, then that changes everyting.

 

So far the only contrary report I've heard is this Mike Floria report that he stated one of his 'sources' saying 10 of the 11 balls MAY HAVE BEEN closer to 1 psi underinflated than 2 psi. So there is one report out there being a bit contrary to what was widely reported intially. Albiet rather shaky as it says "may have been", it does raise an eyebrow. If more and more things come out contrary to what was widely reported then any reasonable person will use the latest information to draw a different conclusion.

 

 

[drobeski 3,061]

I guess we just wait until after the SB for the NFL to announce the fines etc, pointless to constantly belabor the point. Pat's fans refuse to accept their team was in the wrong, the rest of us refuse to accept that they weren't.

 

I doubt we ever find any common ground here,

so if the NFL finds no wrong doing, will you accept that they are just the better team ?

[RLLD 4,275]

so if the NFL finds no wrong doing, will you accept that they are just the better team ?

 

Better team? I am not weighing in on their ability to play in any way, in fact if I am saying anything I am saying that they were foolish to even do such a thing, the Colts were NEVER a threat to them.

 

The current evidence supports the conclusion that they were cheating, if sufficient evidence is produced to refute that then I would use that evidence to form a new conclusion and admit that my first conclusion was false, of course.

 

So we wait, we wait to see how the NFL handles this, I suspect (based on what is presently known) that they will fine the Patriots, but not hold any individual accountable, they have plausible deniability - even if former players, current players and numerous others call their explanation bullsh!t.

 

So.....once again.....we have to wait until after the SB.....to see what penalties the NFL hands down, and I doubt they ding any individual, just the organization in general. The way the Patriots cheated makes this the most likely result.

[HenryHill9323 65]

 

You really should earn what shifting the goal posts means, the people accusing you of cheating can't shift the goal posts(goal posts set at proving cheating)... seriously, you argue law and don't understand a simple logical arguement?

You new here?

[KSB2424 3,173]

Something not talked about in this thread at all, but why in the world does a Professional franchise like the NFL let teams bring their own balls anyway. Why not supply the game balls for all to use? The NFL rubs off the gloss on the new balls, puts them exactly at 13 psi and everybody in the league plays with the same balls?

[RLLD 4,275]

Something not talked about in this thread at all, but why in the world does a Professional franchise like the NFL let teams bring their own balls anyway. Why not supply the game balls for all to use? The NFL rubs off the gloss on the new balls, puts them exactly at 13 psi and everybody in the league plays with the same balls?

 

I think this is not a new "thing", quarterbacks have complained about the quality of the balls for years; eventually winning some concessions from the NFL to break them in more prior to the games.

 

I suspect they will be reviewing the process and rules governing the handling of the balls during the off season.

[Giants Fan 85]

Gonna say it again in case you missed it, it's all about intent. If there was some intentional deflation of the balls, be it by poking it with a needle, intentional changes in "atmospheric conditions", Beelicheat himself sitting on the balls like an egg, doesn't matter how it happened, if it was intentional, that's a problem.

 

Intent. Were the balls intentionally deflated or under inflated by a member of the Patriots staff, and furthermore, are they trying to cover it up. Are they lying when they said, "I was not aware"? That's the issue. Nobody expected The Colts to win that game, Vegas had them plus 7 points, which is a huge spread for a playoff game. They didn't play well enough to win, amd nobody disputes that.

 

But, it's like when I caught a guy cheating at the poker table, not in a big deal, but he knows what he was doing. He knows I saw it. I am not so concerned with the imediate effect, as I am to what cheating is going on that I am not aware of. Once someone gets caught cheating, yes, they should be under higher scrutiny.

 

Sorry if that seems unfair ... don't cheat, and we don't have a problem.

[KSB2424 3,173]

 

I think this is not a new "thing", quarterbacks have complained about the quality of the balls for years; .

 

I didn't think people could hardly tell the difference between the balls though that were deflated or overflated. That's what some people are telling me. Now you're saying there is a big enough difference where the QB's complained?

 

There has to be a general concensus as to how a football should be. I get you want to rub the newness (the slick and shine) of a brand new ball off. I would bet all 32 teams do that. But other than that, it appears that 13 psi is the exact perfect way they want it. Keep it there and you have consistency. The NFL gets the new balls, has a system where somebody rubs the "shine" off, inflates to 13 psi and then there ready. Done and Done.

[parrot 789]

 

 

 

This isn't true.

 

People who weren't "there" only have whats been reported to go on to draw logical conclusions. If everything that was first reported all last week, was wrong, and new reports or facts come out, then those logical conclusions can and should change.

 

For example if the NFL comes out with a report that the officials did NOT test the balls before the game, contrary to whats been reported, then that changes everyting.

 

So far the only contrary report I've heard is this Mike Floria report that he stated one of his 'sources' saying 10 of the 11 balls MAY HAVE BEEN closer to 1 psi underinflated than 2 psi. So there is one report out there being a bit contrary to what was widely reported intially. Albiet rather shaky as it says "may have been", it does raise an eyebrow. If more and more things come out contrary to what was widely reported then any reasonable person will use the latest information to draw a different conclusion.

 

 

 

 

But wasn't the stuff that was "widely reported initially", mostly quoting Mortenson? Just because something is more widely reported, doesn't mean it's better sourced, it may just be what other journalists want to hear.

[Sho Nuff 720]

My work is done here, multiple cases of sore losing hypocrisy exposed.

 

Pats are the best in the AFC, go Pats!!

 

 

Good luck in the draft kids.

Your work was to prove you are a blind homer than whine that everyone else was jealous?

[RLLD 4,275]

 

I didn't think people could hardly tell the difference between the balls though that were deflated or overflated. That's what some people are telling me. Now you're saying there is a big enough difference where the QB's complained?

 

There has to be a general concensus as to how a football should be. I get you want to rub the newness (the slick and shine) of a brand new ball off. I would bet all 32 teams do that. But other than that, it appears that 13 psi is the exact perfect way they want it. Keep it there and you have consistency. The NFL gets the new balls, has a system where somebody rubs the "shine" off, inflates to 13 psi and then there ready. Done and Done.

 

 

Oh you can tell, in fact you can tell differences in each ball that you use.....its that sensitive to the QB ( I know I used to be one). Nothing sucks more than a brand new ball, but once you condition that ball its great, until it wears a bit, then the grip starts to turn slippery again.

[KSB2424 3,173]

 

But wasn't the stuff that was "widely reported", mostly quoting Mortenson? Just because something is more widely reported, doesn't mean it's better sourced, it may just be what other journalists want to hear.

 

So what do you suggest? I'm a big of a media hater as anybody, but we can't just ignore what's reported. Sure you take things with a grain of salt, but other than always understanding the official report hasn't been given so things can change what do you suggest? Just ignore everything?

 

This Mike Floria article that edjr is spouting as facts, says something "may have been" this and that, is just one guy too, with one source. Do we ignore that?

 

OR, like I just said, do we take the reports as they come in as the latest news and go from there (while understanding this story is fluid)? Thats seems most prudent. Call me crazy.

[drobeski 3,061]

If it turns out that natural conditions are what caused the loss if psi, I sure hope the NFL investigates the colts for tampering if there balls did not lose psi.

 

Ok, I really don't hope that, because the patriots were and are clearly the best hardest working team in the AFC.

 

They kill the colts regardless of ball pressure.

But it is kind of odd if that's the case.

[TD Ryan2 316]

I have waited until page 20 to chime in here...

 

it is official: people are stupid

 

this is such manufactured crap that the media has sold its viewers and "inflated" ratings in the down week before football.

 

wow. what an incredible piece of crap you are all consuming - this is a complete sh!t sandwich filed with hyperbole, news-manufacturing-news, sore losers, cry babies, over analysis, frivolous lawsuits, and conspiracy theory, all topped off with melted dumb.

 

20 focking pages on 1-2 psi of air in a football? really? pathetic. Hope your kids have fun not ever playing tag. Hope you get rich after you spill your hot coffee on yourselves.

[Sho Nuff 720]

If it turns out that natural conditions are what caused the loss if psi, I sure hope the NFL investigates the colts for tampering if there balls did not lose psi.

 

Ok, I really don't hope that, because the patriots were and are clearly the best hardest working team in the AFC.

 

They kill the colts regardless of ball pressure.

But it is kind of odd if that's the case.

I thought your work was done here?

[drobeski 3,061]

I have waited until page 20 to chime in here...

 

it is official: people are stupid

 

this is such manufactured crap that the media has sold its viewers and "inflated" ratings in the down week before football.

 

wow. what an incredible piece of crap you are all consuming - this is a complete sh!t sandwich filed with hyperbole, news-manufacturing-news, sore losers, cry babies, over analysis, frivolous lawsuits, and conspiracy theory, all topped off with melted dumb.

 

20 focking pages on 1-2 psi of air in a football? really? pathetic. Hope your kids have fun not ever playing tag. Hope you get rich after you spill your hot coffee on yourselves.

well said

[drobeski 3,061]

I thought your work was done here?

you captain weirdo, think about me way to much.

Back of freak!

[KSB2424 3,173]

I have waited until page 20 to chime in here...

 

it is official: people are stupid

 

this is such manufactured crap that the media has sold its viewers and "inflated" ratings in the down week before football.

 

wow. what an incredible piece of crap you are all consuming - this is a complete sh!t sandwich filed with hyperbole, news-manufacturing-news, sore losers, cry babies, over analysis, frivolous lawsuits, and conspiracy theory, all topped off with melted dumb.

 

20 focking pages on 1-2 psi of air in a football? really? pathetic. Hope your kids have fun not ever playing tag. Hope you get rich after you spill your hot coffee on yourselves.

 

Of course this is hype and media driven and hyberbole. This is the highest watched sport in America and this particular board is on a football board. Then you sprinkle in that the Patriots were found and fined for cheating in the past and you get this. Most people are just laughing at it all.

 

BTW, who's your favorite team? So we can get a sense of any bias.

[Mike Honcho 5,435]

well said

 

Member name Posts

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HenryHill9323 86

IGotWorms 73

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[Sho Nuff 720]

you captain weirdo, think about me way to much.

Back of freak!

You flatter yourself chump.

Sorry you can't make up your mind on if you are done or not.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

Of course this is hype and media driven and hyberbole. This is the highest watched sport on the planet and this particular board is on a football board. Then you sprinkle in that that Patriots were found and fined for cheating in the past. Most people are just laughing at it all.

 

BTW, who's your favorite team? So we can get a sense of any bias.

captain neutral, what do you think of Aaron rogers stating he inflated his balls over the league limit, and and waits to see IF the refs adjust them ?

Cheating ?

 

Jimmy Johnson admitting his team taped opposing teams signals.

Cheating ?

 

Remember, those are both facts and quotes from those players. Put on your middle of the road unbiased hat and answer

 

Is that cheating.

 

Will your bias allow you to evaluate those facts and come to a logical conclusion ?

Its a good test for all of you unbiased fans.

 

Ready ....go!!

[KSB2424 3,173]

captain neutral, what do you think of Aaron rogers stating he inflated his balls over the league limit, and and waits to see IF the refs adjust them ?

Cheating ?

 

Jimmy Johnson admitting his team taped opposing teams signals.

Cheating ?

 

Remember, those are both facts and quotes from those players. Put on your middle of the road unbiased hat and answer

 

Is that cheating.

 

Will your bias allow you to evaluate those facts and come to a logical conclusion ?

Its a good test for all of you unbiased fans.

 

Ready ....go!!

 

I don't know if what you are saying is or isn't true but generally speaking if you knowingly break a rule to gain an advantage then yes that can be considered cheating. And said cheating, if caught, should be stopped and or punished dependent on the severity and/or any priors.

 

I don't think that is me trying to be Captain Neutral, it's more trying to be Captain Obvious.