Daily FFL Controversy

[BigB1858 2]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?referer=http://digg.com/

[Kent 228]

Maybe this will stop the oppressive ad campaigns.

[giraldi02 470]

I pulled every last penny from all these sites. I'll be damned if I'm going to lose any money from my accounts ala online Poker.


The biggest question I have is: Which professional sports franchises that have partnerships with Draftkings pull out of their deals?

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Everyone should write an email to ESPN telling them you're boycotting them unless they end their partnership with those two companies.

 

It's a huge sh!tstorm and those folks are looking for umbrellas right now.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

On Monday, DraftKings and FanDuel released a joint statement that said “nothing is more important” than the “integrity of the games we offer,” but offered few specifics about how they keep contests on the level.

 

A spokesman for DraftKings acknowledged that employees of both companies had won big jackpots playing at other daily fantasy sites.

 

Late Monday, the two companies temporarily barred their employees from playing games or taking part in tournaments at any other site; they already had prohibited their employees from playing on their own company sites.

 

I capped those statements in bold to emphasize that if the two companies are releasing a joint statement, two conclusions may be drawn from that.

 

1. There are close relationships at the upper levels of both companies.

 

2. Since employees from both companies have won big jackpots on other sites, there is a high probability that information was

being traded between employees regarding player usage.

 

The fact that Ethan Haskell had a say in what price players garnered cannot be overlooked. Ever wonder why some players barely increase in price while others (who may be underperforming) remain high? Did he set the price low on some players to assist a Draft Kings employee who was playing on Fan Duel then received the same treatment from that employee?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

This doesnt surprise me in the least. It was just a matter of time before someone looked a little deeper into what goes on. This is kind of a large story so i would imagine investigative journalists will keep a close eye on these companies.

 

On a side note, i would love to have a bank roll for just a few weeks to see if the strategy of making hundreds of teams is a near guarantee to win money. There is the obstacle that i suck at DFS i need to overcome first. Aaron Rodgers throws 5 TDs last week, well obviously the Niners, who are a dead team, were going to shut his ass down.

[Maulers1973 117]

This doesnt surprise me in the least. It was just a matter of time before someone looked a little deeper into what goes on. This is kind of a large story so i would imagine investigative journalists will keep a close eye on these companies.

 

On a side note, i would love to have a bank roll for just a few weeks to see if the strategy of making hundreds of teams is a near guarantee to win money. There is the obstacle that i suck at DFS i need to overcome first. Aaron Rodgers throws 5 TDs last week, well obviously the Niners, who are a dead team, were going to shut his ass down.

 

Right, and Freeman won't duplicate his 3 TD's from last week. No way, not facing the vaunted Texans defense. Whoops!

[deleddaj 0]

This revelation is really a bummer. Legal betting on my drafting and handicapping skills was fun while it lasted. Get your money out of your accounts before this whole thing gets frozen for the congressional hearings and class action lawsuits.

[tanatastic 2,061]

DFS is a great way to make some money, then lose it all when your great matchups crash and burn. Like pretty much every gambling site.

[yseguy22 8]

If they found out about this one guy there are probably a dozen more they don't know about. Once the Feds raid, all their money will be frozen....

[Yogidog 1]

I think it's going to take an act of Congress to shut down these sites because it's actually an act of Congress that made the loop hole that fantasy sports were made legal. This includes all fantasy sports not just DFS.

[deleddaj 0]

DFS is a great way to make some money, then lose it all when your great matchups crash and burn. Like pretty much every gambling site.

Right?!? But we love them anyway because FF has been about gambling with your buddies for the past 15 years. I love this attempted separation of "games of skill" and "gambling." My grandma being able to knock out the NY Times Sunday crossword in ink is skill. Me applying the same analytics model to the same set variables and cashing in one week, yet coming in last...f'ing last, the next is gambling.

[Kent 228]

Right?!? But we love them anyway because FF has been about gambling with your buddies for the past 15 years. I love this attempted separation of "games of skill" and "gambling." My grandma being able to knock out the NY Times Sunday crossword in ink is skill. Me applying the same analytics model to the same set variables and cashing in one week, yet coming in last...f'ing last, the next is gambling.

If there is a profound point being made, I lost it.

[Natetradomus 0]

Time to deposit more money but not play so we can be part of the class action law suit. #winningwithoutplaying

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Time to deposit more money but not play so we can be part of the class action law suit. #winningwithoutplaying

Yeah and then we all get $10. Yippeee

[jgcrawfish 232]

Everyone should write an email to ESPN telling them you're boycotting them unless they end their partnership with those two companies.

 

It's a huge sh!tstorm and those folks are looking for umbrellas right now.

I think ESPN already did. I heard something about it.

[Mike FF Today 608]

If they found out about this one guy there are probably a dozen more they don't know about. Once the Feds raid, all their money will be frozen....

 

The amount of speculation and jumping to conclusions from the vast majority of media (and now general public) is always sight to see and it's no different this case.

 

Given what we know, there's no doubt the issue of the DK employee releasing player utilization rates from a DK contest in his article prematurely is a big mistake and brings up valid questions and concerns regarding data access, employees participating in contests, oversight/regulation of these companies etc. I think this incident will actually end up being good for the industry and spur some action on some much needed checks and balances and potentially new improvements to the games themselves.

 

It would take a good deal of investment and resources but how about live updated player utilization percentages when you're making your lineup? Once contests are locked, provide a downloadable .csv file with all the contest details (entries, lineups, player utilization %, etc.)?

[Mike FF Today 608]

DK CEO talking to Fox Business today.

[Woble Eth 11]

DK CEO talking to Fox Business today.

 

Jason is SCRAMBLING. Sorry, pal, the empire is coming down.. He looks like he's ready to cry.

 

Trust is hard to gain and SO quickly lost... They can take those commercials with the fist-pumping, screen staring idiots and shove them in their collective keisters.

 

Buh bye.

[BufordT 371]

Right?!? But we love them anyway because FF has been about gambling with your buddies for the past 15 years. I love this attempted separation of "games of skill" and "gambling." My grandma being able to knock out the NY Times Sunday crossword in ink is skill. Me applying the same analytics model to the same set variables and cashing in one week, yet coming in last...f'ing last, the next is gambling.

I don't consider FF with friends, family or work or whatever to be gambling. FF leagues I'm in payout 100% of what's put in. That's the way it's always been in leagues I've played in and in all leagues I've heard of. That's a true game of skill and luck.

 

These DFS (or whatever) leagues take out a vig. To me, that changes everything. They're taking a % of money out of every prize pool just like casino, horse tracks or betting with a bookie. That is not the same as playing in leagues with your friends. I mean smarten up people.

 

I never played these DFS's. Thought about it until I heard about the vig...no thanks. People who play these leagues are doing nothing but lining the pockets of a bunch of pimply faced college kids. That's who I envision are running the sites anyway.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

If i am in charge of one of these companies i tell all my employees they are banned from participating in any competition of these types. If they break this new cardinal rule they are fired on the spot and given a harsh penalty (however harsh a penalty an employer can impose). I am not risking this extremely lucrative business just so my employees can game the system. I then make my new policy known to all while flaunting anyone i catch breaking the system and show i mean business when they are fired.

 

Also, give them a little bit bigger chunk of the pie to reduce temptation.

[Mike FF Today 608]

If i am in charge of one of these companies i tell all my employees they are banned from participating in any competition of these types. If they break this new cardinal rule they are fired on the spot and given a harsh penalty (however harsh a penalty an employer can impose).

 

They have. Both FD and DK have instituted new policies that their employees can't play on other Daily sites.

 

Release from FanDuel....

 

Media reports yesterday raised issues concerning an employee from another fantasy site participating in our NFL Sunday Million contest last week. Trust with our players is core to our business and has always been our primary concern so we take any potential game integrity issue very seriously.

 

Based on everything we know thus far, there is no evidence indicating that the integrity of FanDuel’s contest was in any way compromised, or that non-public information was used for unfair advantage. That said, the incident has raised questions about the trust-based relationship we have with our players so just relying on what we know right now isn’t enough. That’s why we’re taking the following steps:

 

•We have permanently banned our employees from playing any daily fantasy games for money, on any site. We will also require all customers to confirm that they are not an employee of any other third party fantasy site, and if they are, they will not be allowed to access our site.

 

•We have asked former federal judge and United States Attorney General Michael Mukasey to review the facts and evaluate our internal controls, standards and practices. His mandate is to conduct a review to identify ways that we can ensure we are doing the right things to maintain the trust we have with our players. He will have the freedom and authority to look at any areas he thinks appropriate. We will ask him and his team at the law firm Debevoise & Plimpton to develop a set of recommendations for us to adopt and to highlight any areas where our controls can be strengthened.

 

•We are also creating an internal advisory board, led by Michael Garcia of the Kirkland & Ellis law firm and former United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York. The advisory board will provide on-going advice, recommendations and guidance to ensure that we are always taking every step possible to ensure the integrity of our site and our games. We also look forward to speaking with regulators across the nation about how to define the right set of rules for our industry as it continues to grow.

 

FanDuel is one of the fastest growing companies in the world. The way fans have embraced our games is a clear sign that fantasy sports is here to stay.

 

It’s our job to ensure that as our company grows, so does our ability to ensure that our fans can be confident in the sanctity and integrity of every game, every day.

[Yogidog 1]

I think a move to make the industry more transparent is the correct step. I also think they should release their data gathering info to the public live or at least a daily update. It wouldn't be insider information anymore, it would be public information.

[Mike FF Today 608]

...And here's the release from DraftKings with their updated policy that employess can't play on other Daily sites...

 

As a leader in the Daily Fantasy Sports industry, we take the trust of our community very seriously and remain fiercely committed to the integrity of DraftKings’ Daily Fantasy Sports product.

 

Effective immediately, DraftKings employees will be permanently prohibited from participation in any public daily fantasy games for money. We will also prohibit employees from any Daily Fantasy Sports contest operator from participating in games on DraftKings. We are glad to see that others in the industry have followed suit and believe that this is an important next step in retaining the trust of our players.

 

DraftKings has engaged a legal team from Greenberg Traurig, led by former United States Attorney John Pappalardo, to review our findings and conduct an investigation specific to the allegations against one of our employees. We will release the summary of those findings upon completion.

 

Furthermore, in order to maximize the integrity of our product and the protection of our players, we have been working with Greenberg Traurig to advise us on ensuring that our policies and practices are second to none.

 

DraftKings’ explosive growth is a testament to our ability to deepen our fans’ engagement with the sports they love. We are committed to reinforcing the trust and security of our millions of loyal customers.

[Bills04 46]

I'm not entirely surprised something like this happened. I deal with statistics A LOT for my job. I tend to think the Top-12 / Top-24 players at the various positions are VERY similar at FD and DK.

 

If an employee had access to that information, and he had a hunch on some players that were NOT heavily selected, then yeah, that is an advantage.

 

At the end of the day, though, it likely only saved the guy some money, by knowing which player combinations were likely selected by other Team Owners, and not entering teams with those line-ups.

 

FD and DK need to do one of two things: 1) release Top-12 / Top-24 owned plays at the positions, so it is common knowledge, and/or 2) SEVERELY restrict access to that type of information in their systems. People that have access, have them sign an agreement prohibiting them from disseminating and/or playing DFS using that information.

 

I know a Congressman was already going to look into the DFS "loophole," based on FD's and DK's massive media blitz on opening weekend. This recent story just adds more fuel to the fire.

[Maulers1973 117]

I would only play a game if it includes all games for the weekend Thursday thru MNF. If I can't see all other lineups at kickoff of the Thursday night game. Then, I won't play..............Period!

 

Anything else is blind robbery.

[brotherbock 349]

As an aside, the competitiveness and Lawyer-measuring is pretty funny between those two statements.

 

"We have a former US attorney."

"We have a former federal judge and US attorney."

"We've got another US attorney."

"We're the leader."

"We're glad to see our competitors following us in this grand gesture."

 

If either was a real leader, they wouldn't have waited for scandal to hit before thinking they might have to take these steps. You're handling hundreds of millions of dollars from people all over the country...mebbee should be careful with it, huh?

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

First and foremost, Fan Duel needs a downloadable CSV available at the start of each tournament. This is so every contestant's lineup is captured and there isn't any doubt about whether these "new guys" that enter 1 entry yet nail the perfect lineup was there the whole time (I.e. not inserted afterwards by someone). Seen it several times and given the shenanagens with the latest scandal, I don't trust them.

 

Second, both sites refund monies to entrants where these guys played. Those may have been legitmate wins but the process was tainted.

 

Third, since no one should need access to the player data prior to the contests block it until the following Tuesday. PERIOD.

[stonewall 647]

I believe the secret to winning money at Daily FFL's is picking the right contests....regardless of what "sharks" you might or might not be playing against. I stay away from head-to-head and low entry/mega-participants/huge prize contests. I have found that slow and steady is the key.

 

For example, there are contests that are "double-ups". You have a 25 or 50 dollar entry fee, and play against a lot of other teams (usually 30-40 thousand entries). There is no big prize, but roughly the top 1/2 double their money. In other words, a 25 dollar entry against 34,000 other players will net you 50 bucks if you place 1-16,000.

 

By doing this methodically, your winnings grow. Just keep back 1/2 of winnings every week, and play with the other half. As close to full-proof as I have found. We have a lot of good info as to team injuries, dynamics, sleepers, etc., as close followers of FF. If we can't squeeze in the top 1/2, then we prolly shouldn't be playing.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I believe the secret to winning money at Daily FFL's is picking the right contests....regardless of what "sharks" you might or might not be playing against. I stay away from head-to-head and low entry/mega-participants/huge prize contests. I have found that slow and steady is the key.

 

For example, there are contests that are "double-ups". You have a 25 or 50 dollar entry fee, and play against a lot of other teams (usually 30-40 thousand entries). There is no big prize, but roughly the top 1/2 double their money. In other words, a 25 dollar entry against 34,000 other players will net you 50 bucks if you place 1-16,000.

 

By doing this methodically, your winnings grow. Just keep back 1/2 of winnings every week, and play with the other half. As close to full-proof as I have found. We have a lot of good info as to team injuries, dynamics, sleepers, etc., as close followers of FF. If we can't squeeze in the top 1/2, then we prolly shouldn't be playing.

I shouldnt be playing

[Voltaire 4,560]

They're taking a loophole in the law and driving a Death Star through it. If these companies bring on congressional over site, the loophole could potentially close in turn screwing over each and every one of us.

 

We all need/want that loophole to remain open so hopefully this scandal costs them boatloads of cash to go bankrupt before the Feds crack down on us in the process of cracking down on them.

 

And their omnipresent ads are so insanely annoying.

 

This hobby has suited me just fine as is for 18 years. I don't need FD and DK's greedy mitts coming in and ruining it.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

First lawsuit people........

 

http://www.legalsportsreport.com/4847/class-action-lawsuit-filed-in-federal-court-against-fanduel-draftkings/

 

 

The lawyers will be the real winners here.

[BigB1858 2]

Whats to stop an employee of one of these companies to share the inside info with their friends or family? Easy peasy way around it.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Whats to stop an employee of one of these companies to share the inside info with their friends or family? Easy peasy way around it.

 

To hear defenders of those sites they'd say "then the family member would have to pay taxes on those winnings". Of course, paying taxes but still walking away with a boatload of cash still looks like a great option to me.

[tiggo25 4]

Thanks for the link. From the article looks like the terms of use prohibit class action suits and require arbitration. Will be interesting to see how this lawsuit shakes out.

 

From DraftKings’ terms of use:

Any and all claims shall be arbitrated on an individual basis only, and shall not be consolidated or joined with or in any arbitration or other proceeding involving a Claim of any other party. You and DraftKings agree that the arbitrator shall have no authority to arbitrate any Claim as a class action or in any other form other than on an individual basis.

From FanDuel’s terms of use:

The parties further agree that any arbitration shall be conducted in their individual capacities only and not as a class action or other representative action, and the parties expressly waive their right to file a class action or seek relief on a class basis. YOU AND FANDUEL AGREE THAT EACH MAY BRING CLAIMS AGAINST THE OTHER ONLY IN YOUR OR ITS INDIVIDUAL CAPACITY, AND NOT AS A PLAINTIFF OR CLASS MEMBER IN ANY PURPORTED CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE PROCEEDING. If any court or arbitrator determines that the class action waiver set forth in this paragraph is void or unenforceable for any reason or that an arbitration can proceed on a class basis, then the arbitration provision set forth above shall be deemed null and void in its entirety and the parties shall be deemed to have not agreed to arbitrate disputes.

[brotherbock 349]

 

Thanks for the link. From the article looks like the terms of use prohibit class action suits and require arbitration. Will be interesting to see how this lawsuit shakes out.

 

From DraftKings terms of use:

Any and all claims shall be arbitrated on an individual basis only, and shall not be consolidated or joined with or in any arbitration or other proceeding involving a Claim of any other party. You and DraftKings agree that the arbitrator shall have no authority to arbitrate any Claim as a class action or in any other form other than on an individual basis.

From FanDuels terms of use:

The parties further agree that any arbitration shall be conducted in their individual capacities only and not as a class action or other representative action, and the parties expressly waive their right to file a class action or seek relief on a class basis. YOU AND FANDUEL AGREE THAT EACH MAY BRING CLAIMS AGAINST THE OTHER ONLY IN YOUR OR ITS INDIVIDUAL CAPACITY, AND NOT AS A PLAINTIFF OR CLASS MEMBER IN ANY PURPORTED CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE PROCEEDING. If any court or arbitrator determines that the class action waiver set forth in this paragraph is void or unenforceable for any reason or that an arbitration can proceed on a class basis, then the arbitration provision set forth above shall be deemed null and void in its entirety and the parties shall be deemed to have not agreed to arbitrate disputes.

Terms of Use don't always hold up in court, just FYI.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Terms of Use don't always hold up in court, just FYI.

 

Agreed.

 

It's the first step in getting it regulated or shut down. The more I read about how bad your chances are, the more I'd like to see them regulated. Someone entering a contest 500 times max then getting a computer to maximize and edit those entries is stacking the deck. Also, they may have multiple profiles (which is prohibited but the safeguards are apparently lacking there) which just decreases your chances further.

 

They need to knock off the scripting and lower the max entries to less than say 50.

[chroniciguana 13]

Terms of Use don't always hold up in court, just FYI.

Bingo. And in this case, they won't.

[Yogidog 1]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/10/08/daily-fantasy-sports-lawsuit-draftkings-fanduel#

 

A good article written by a sports lawyer, Michael McCann

[ricanrockers 39]

RampageRican,

 

As the three co-founders of DraftKings, we want to speak to you directly about what has been going on.

 

We know that you play DraftKings because it's fun and because it gives you a chance to showcase your skills against millions of other fans, and we know that you cannot do that without a level playing field.

 

The fairness and integrity of our contests has been at the heart of everything we have built since we started the company three and a half years ago.

 

Over the past week, questions have arisen around an employee of ours who won a significant prize on a competitor's site. While our internal investigation has reflected absolutely no wrongdoing on his part, this has still pushed us to reevaluate our processes.

 

Long before this happened, the wheels were in motion for an external review of our policies and procedures. Given the pace of our growth, we felt that an audit was critical to ensure the security of our platform, so we hired an external law firm experienced with these issues to conduct a full review.

 

But that is not enough. In addition to this audit, we have put in place a set of core measures that we believe are central to this process:

We expanded our existing policy prohibiting DraftKings employees from playing on our site to prohibit participation in any public daily fantasy sports contests for money.

 

We also will prohibit employees from any other Daily Fantasy Sports contest operator from participating in games on DraftKings.

 

We are actively reviewing our organizational structure and will add resources to ensure compliance with all recommendations stemming from internal and external findings.

 

We are working with multiple third parties to strengthen all internal policies and procedures.

The events of the past week have caused us to take a broader look and to ask those both here and externally to widen the scope of their analysis of our business.

 

We are aware that there is room for growth, regardless of the strength of our current platform. We will work tirelessly to improve all aspects of our customer experience, which is every bit as important to us as the effort we put into our product.

 

You will no doubt continue to hear from the media about both DraftKings and the industry. It is our prerogative to keep driving that conversation ourselves. We will work to respond to your concerns in complete transparency and to inform you of the steps we are taking to inspire your full trust.

 

Please know how grateful we are for the passion and loyalty you have shown DraftKings throughout our history and especially over the past week. You remain our greatest priority.

 

Thank you,

 

Jason Robins, Matt Kalish & Paul Liberman

Co-Founders, DraftKings