Dallas Cowboys 2018 & Beyond

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

2 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

OK, I guess you're correct, but I've never seen the chains worked that way.

Works the same for every game and has been that way for a long time.  The blue and yellow lines sometimes are just "approximations" and it causes problems periodically.  There are chains on both sides, but there is only one set of official chains and it is on the visitors sideline.  If you watch HS and college, the chains are on the visitors side there too.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

The Patriots didn't cheat. Never have. 

[Big Guy 1,414]

I personally respect the Patriots, but My Cowboys have been getting shafted bigly by the League for years now, so I'm a bit touchy. 

[Cruzer 1,995]

More troublesome than phantom calls and moving chains - 

Red goes on record saying he doesn't use in-game analytics....he doesn't need them.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2019/11/25/20981730/jason-garrett-cowboys-do-not-use-win-probability-analytics-in-game

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

2 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

More troublesome than phantom calls and moving chains - 

Red goes on record saying he doesn't use in-game analytics....he doesn't need them.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2019/11/25/20981730/jason-garrett-cowboys-do-not-use-win-probability-analytics-in-game

That is definitely odd of him to say.  The only thing that I will tell you is that, this year, it is Harbaugh who is being blown for his use of analytics.  Last year it was McVay, but where is the genius this year. 

Coaching is about getting your team to play up to their best and to give your team every advantage possible.  Garrett is struggling to get his team to play to their ability (that roster has a ton of talent) and he is not pulling out any stops (no trickeration, no use of analytics, etc.).  It just seems like he is too entrenched in the job and not hungry.  At least from my perspective.  

[Cruzer 1,995]

5 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

That is definitely odd of him to say.  The only thing that I will tell you is that, this year, it is Harbaugh who is being blown for his use of analytics.  Last year it was McVay, but where is the genius this year.

Harbaugh is 10-6 in the postseason and won a ring... McVay got his team to a SB last year.

In 9 1/2 years Red has never made it past the Divisional Rd., amassed all of 2 playoff wins...........and a resume of blunders that goes 6 volumes deep.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

3 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Harbaugh is 10-6 in the postseason and won a ring... McVay got his team to a SB last year.

In 9 1/2 years Red has never made it past the Divisional Rd., amassed all of 2 playoff wins...........and a resume of blunders that goes 6 volumes deep.

Agree on Garrett. My point on McVay and Harbaugh is that it is not just using analytics.  It is coaching and using analytics and all sorts of other things.  

Take the game on Sunday.  The Patriots were playing short-handed on offense and they saw that they might be able to get somewhere with special teams.  So, they worked on punt block and it paid off.  Sometimes you have to scratch and claw to a win.  Not sure that Garrett is that kind of guy.  

[edjr 6,608]

2 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Agree on Garrett. My point on McVay and Harbaugh is that it is not just using analytics.  It is coaching and using analytics and all sorts of other things.  

Take the game on Sunday.  The Patriots were playing short-handed on offense and they saw that they might be able to get somewhere with special teams.  So, they worked on punt block and it paid off.  Sometimes you have to scratch and claw to a win.  Not sure that Garrett is that kind of guy.  

2001 Patriots were similar. coaching coaching coaching

[Cruzer 1,995]

6 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Agree on Garrett. My point on McVay and Harbaugh is that it is not just using analytics.  It is coaching and using analytics and all sorts of other things.  

Take the game on Sunday.  The Patriots were playing short-handed on offense and they saw that they might be able to get somewhere with special teams.  So, they worked on punt block and it paid off.  Sometimes you have to scratch and claw to a win.  Not sure that Garrett is that kind of guy.  

And regardless of all of that - Dak had managed to get us to 1st and 10, on NE's 14 yard line.........and Red shiit the bed.

This was not a 1 time braid-dead, gag occurrence. This one in long line of Jason Garrett poor decision fock ups. If anyone needs analytics help - it's Red.

[vuduchile 1,945]

3 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

And regardless of all of that - Dak had managed to get us to 1st and 10, on NE's 14 yard line.........and Red shiit the bed.

This was not a 1 time braid-dead, gag occurrence. This one in long line of Jason Garrett poor decision fock ups. If anyone needs analytics help - it's Red.

Even Aikman was calling it 4 down territory when they got down there, and he was critical of Garret's call after the fact.  I don't know much about the analytics, but that was the closet they'd been to getting a TD against an excellent Pats D all day.  The weather was awful.  Everyone was having trouble holding onto the ball.  I can't understand why he wouldn't try to tie the game there. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

Patriot fans acting like they blew the Cowboys out. They didn't. They had just as much trouble scoring as the Cowboys. Didn't drive the field one time. 

[Cruzer 1,995]

2 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Even Aikman was calling it 4 down territory when they got down there, and he was critical of Garret's call after the fact.  I don't know much about the analytics, but that was the closet they'd been to getting a TD against an excellent Pats D all day.  The weather was awful.  Everyone was having trouble holding onto the ball.  I can't understand why he wouldn't try to tie the game there. 

We can even go back to the last 2 drives in the Minny game.

But yes, it was a blunder of epic proportions to not view that as 4 down territory. A FG not not only does you no good, but you still have to score a TD. .. And - now you're giving Brady the ball back, who btw - ran off 3 minutes more of the clock bcoz we couldn't make them go 3 and out.

Even if you don't get the TD there, you have NE pinned inside their own 10 - which is way better than kicking it to them on a kickoff.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

Maybe Garrett was showing faith in his defense? He was right about that. NE wasn't doing anything. 

[vuduchile 1,945]

3 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Even if you don't get the TD there, you have NE pinned inside their own 10 - which is way better than kicking it to them on a kickoff.

This might be the key reason it was 4 down territory.  

[vuduchile 1,945]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Maybe Garrett was showing faith in his defense? He was right about that. NE wasn't doing anything. 

 The Cowboys D did enough to win that game, but I think the conditions hurt Brady and Co. a lot.   

[Cruzer 1,995]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Maybe Garrett was showing faith in his defense? He was right about that. NE wasn't doing anything. 

That's been mentioned -

but if you truly have faith in your defense - worst case, they have NE pinned down near their own 5 yard line.... If you truly believe in your defense, don't you like them even more with NE pinned near their own goal line than the 25?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

4 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

 The Cowboys D did enough to win that game, but I think the conditions hurt Brady and Co. a lot.   

Yeah. Maybe that factored in? Maybe his thought was I can take the 3, stop them and flip field position with a full set of downs instead of 1? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

2 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

That's been mentioned -

but if you truly have faith in your defense - worst case, they have NE pinned down near their own 5 yard line.... If you truly believe in your defense, don't you like them even more with NE pinned near their own goal line than the 25?

You can absolutely make that argument, it's 100pct valid. But best case there you're looking at a tie on the road. Garret maybe figures let me take this and I'll beat them? I'll say it again, NE was doing nothing on offense. 

[Cruzer 1,995]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You can absolutely make that argument, it's 100pct valid. But best case there you're looking at a tie on the road. Garret maybe figures let me take this and I'll beat them? I'll say it again, NE was doing nothing on offense. 

Possibly.

I think more than anything it's just an overall frustration with the fact that even if we didn't convert - we were no worse off, bcoz we still needed a TD. And given the fact we hadn't sniffed that part of the field all game long, seemed like a long shot to get back there for 6.

Boils down to this:

* Do you trust your (soon to be) $35m QB, highest paid/all pro RB and highest paid offensive line to score from the 14?

or

* Do you trust your defense to stop the GOAT Qb named Brady?

 

If it's the latter, then Jerry and Red's entire philosophy on Cap distribution is seriously focked up.

[vuduchile 1,945]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah. Maybe that factored in? Maybe his thought was I can take the 3, stop them and flip field position with a full set of downs instead of 1? 

I'm sure Garrett would argue that he needed two scores to win so he took the 3 first.  But he doesn't have to play for the tie on the road if he'd gotten 6.  He could have gone for 2, and the win right there. I wonder what the analytics say about that. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

1 minute ago, vuduchile said:

I'm sure Garrett would argue that he needed two scores to win so he took the 3 first.  But he doesn't have to play for the tie on the road if he'd gotten 6.  He could have gone for 2, and the win right there. I wonder what the analytics say about that. 

Well, that would be ballsy. Chances of scoring on 4th down and hitting a conversion have to be fairly low. That's not a 50-50 for the combo. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

3 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Possibly.

I think more than anything it's just an overall frustration with the fact that even if we didn't convert - we were no worse off, bcoz we still needed a TD. And given the fact we hadn't sniffed that part of the field all game long, seemed like a long shot to get back there for 6.

Boils down to this:

* Do you trust your (soon to be) $35m QB, highest paid/all pro RB and highest paid offensive line to score from the 14?

or

* Do you trust your defense to stop the GOAT Qb named Brady?

 

If it's the latter, then Jerry and Red's entire philosophy on Cap distribution is seriously focked up.

If you would ever think you could stop him it was on Sunday in those conditions. 

[vuduchile 1,945]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well, that would be ballsy. Chances of scoring on 4th down and hitting a conversion have to be fairly low. That's not a 50-50 for the combo. 

Doesn't traditional thinking say go for the win on the road and go for the tie at home?  Or do I have that backwards?

[vuduchile 1,945]

Meanwhile, the Cowboys are facing an 8-3 Bills team that would love to get some national attention on Turkey Day.  This could be disastrous, and might even be the official end of the road for Garrett.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

10 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Doesn't traditional thinking say go for the win on the road and go for the tie at home?  Or do I have that backwards?

You have it right. But that's using a huge sample.  It doesn't factor in weather and how your defense is playing. Red had to factor those things in. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

8 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Meanwhile, the Cowboys are facing an 8-3 Bills team that would love to get some national attention on Turkey Day.  This could be disastrous, and might even be the official end of the road for Garrett.  

Buffalo is good against the pass, not the run. Proceed accordingly. If they don't come out running and trusting their defense against that offense at home then Garrett should be fired. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Patriot fans acting like they blew the Cowboys out. They didn't. They had just as much trouble scoring as the Cowboys. Didn't drive the field one time. 

Like whom?  Pats offense stunk all day.  Had to get help from defensive turnovers to put up any points.  Pats were lucky to get a win, never mind a blowout.  

[usurpers26 26]

1 hour ago, vuduchile said:

Meanwhile, the Cowboys are facing an 8-3 Bills team that would love to get some national attention on Turkey Day.  This could be disastrous, and might even be the official end of the road for Garrett.  

My only wish for turkey day is the Bills drop 28 points in the first half and Jerruh fires the redboob at halftime and lets Richard get his chance...too much to ask for?

[vuduchile 1,945]

Just now, usurpers26 said:

My only wish for turkey day is the Bills drop 28 points in the first half and Jerruh fires the redboob at halftime and lets Richard get his chance...too much to ask for?

Maybe a little, but I'm rooting for ya

[Big Guy 1,414]

This is the only game I've dreaded all Season........now I know why. 

[lickin_starfish 1,942]

There's no way that Buffalo beats Dallas on Thursday. None.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

20 minutes ago, lickin_starfish said:

There's no way that Buffalo beats Dallas on Thursday. None.

Said every degenerate gambler ever.

[Cruzer 1,995]

7 hours ago, vuduchile said:

Meanwhile, the Cowboys are facing an 8-3 Bills team that would love to get some national attention on Turkey Day.  This could be disastrous, and might even be the official end of the road for Garrett.  

Make no mistake, outside a NFC Championship appearance - Red is gone. And I think we can all agree, that's not gonna happen. Hell, we're even money to not win the East still. 

I expect DAL to beat BUF, but would not be shocked to see us get beat too. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

5 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Make no mistake, outside a NFC Championship appearance - Red is gone. And I think we can all agree, that's not gonna happen. Hell, we're even money to not win the East still. 

I expect DAL to beat BUF, but would not be shocked to see us get beat too. 

There is talk that Garrett is gone if they lose to the Bills. 

[Big Guy 1,414]

2 hours ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

There is talk that Garrett is gone if they lose to the Bills. 

I support that 100%

[TimmySmith 2,782]

9 hours ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

There is talk that Garrett is gone if they lose to the Bills. 

By whom? You think Jones would fire a division leading coach late in the season? I don't.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

53 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

By whom? You think Jones would fire a division leading coach late in the season? I don't.

ProFootballTalk had something on it yesterday

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/26/could-jason-garrett-be-out-friday-if-the-cowboys-lose-to-the-bills/

[TimmySmith 2,782]

6 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

ProFootballTalk had something on it yesterday

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/11/26/could-jason-garrett-be-out-friday-if-the-cowboys-lose-to-the-bills/

Cowboys talk sells, we know that.  And yes, Jason COULD be doing anything. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

9 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

Cowboys talk sells, we know that.  And yes, Jason COULD be doing anything. 

I think that you mean Jerry could do anything.  Point I was making that it was thrown out there that he could be gone sooner than later.  Not sure that I buy half of the stuff that Florio puts out, but it isn't from some Cowboy fan blog.  

[TimmySmith 2,782]

5 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

I think that you mean Jerry could do anything.  Point I was making that it was thrown out there that he could be gone sooner than later.  Not sure that I buy half of the stuff that Florio puts out, but it isn't from some Cowboy fan blog.  

My point is that Jason should have been gone long ago.  Jerry has been patient. Why would he fire him now when he is very close to a division title?  When Prescott is having an MVP type season.