Strike 5,591 Posted December 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gladiators said: I mean, it has to be because chinavirus is running rampant right now, but the flu isn’t. Apparently it’s common sense, but I don’t know. 1 death is too many when it comes to chinavirus. What about the flu? Are these safety measures the new norm so we don’t spread the flu and pneumonia too? We have a vaccine for the flu. We do not have one for the coronavirus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Strike said: We have a vaccine for the flu. We do not have one for the coronavirus. Ok, I thought people died from the flu every year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,591 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Gladiators said: Ok, I thought people died from the flu every year. They do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Strike said: They do. So my question still remains. If 1 death is too many when it comes to chinavirus, are the new norms going to remain so we help prevent the spread of flu and resulting deaths? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted December 10, 2020 I think we need a quick tutorial. 1. We have a Flu Vaccine, however because the seasonal flu mutates the actual vaccine is tweaked yearly and you have to get it yearly, opposed to one shot that protects you for years (think other vaccines you get as children). Also, because of the constant mutation, the vaccine mix is chasing the flu so there is on average 40% protection. 2. The Covid-19 Vaccines coming out appear to be 90+ percent effective for this version. Hopefully Covid-19 doesn't constantly mutate like the seasonal flu, this would be huge. If it does then there will be a new, tweaked vaccine every year. 3. While vaccines are meant to protect *you*, the true importance from a public health perspective is that enough people are immune that it all but eradicates the disease. It really is a group effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,591 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Gladiators said: So my question still remains. If 1 death is too many when it comes to chinavirus, are the new norms going to remain so we help prevent the spread of flu and resulting deaths? No one is saying 1 death is too many. Not sure what you're trying to do with this line of reasoning, but it's not working. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Strike said: No one is saying 1 death is too many. Not sure what you're trying to do with this line of reasoning, but it's not working. How about this? What is the acceptable number of deaths? I could have swore I heard Trump say 1 death is too many. I could be wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,899 Posted December 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, lod001 said: No, the flu cases are being called Covid cases, how is that so hard to understand. You don't get magically immune to the flu because you had covid. 2 separate bugs, morons. if what you think is true, then we wouldn't be pimping the flu shot anymore would we. What evidence do you have that people are testing positive for flu and negative to covid, yet those numbers are being added to covid? Why believe in some vast conspiracy theory when the most obvious/simplest answer is that people are taking measures to reduce the spread of all viruses, thus resulting in lower virus inefections? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,591 Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Gladiators said: How about this? What is the acceptable number of deaths? I could have swore I heard Trump say 1 death is too many. I could be wrong. Ugh. nm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 Prior to chinavirus, we had deaths from the flu every year. These deaths were accepted by society as part of life. No one was forced to get the flu vaccine. No masks. No social distancing. No hand sanitizer when walking into buildings or sanitizing pens at the front desk or bank. After going through chinavirus, will we get back to normal, or will people be required to get flu shots, continue social distancing and all the other safety measures? As someone said earlier, all the measures we're taking to help prevent the spread of chinavirus are helping prevent the spread of the flu. Someone else said that was common sense. I'd prefer to get back to normal, but I could see all the safety measures we're talking for chinavirus becoming the new normal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,899 Posted December 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gladiators said: Prior to chinavirus, we had deaths from the flu every year. These deaths were accepted by society as part of life. No one was forced to get the flu vaccine. No masks. No social distancing. No hand sanitizer when walking into buildings or sanitizing pens at the front desk or bank. After going through chinavirus, will we get back to normal, or will people be required to get flu shots, continue social distancing and all the other safety measures? As someone said earlier, all the measures we're taking to help prevent the spread of chinavirus are helping prevent the spread of the flu. Someone else said that was common sense. I'd prefer to get back to normal, but I could see all the safety measures we're talking for chinavirus becoming the new normal. I would think we get back to normal at some point. The chinavirus was new and scary and had a much higher death rate than the flu, so we all went a little crazy. Now that we know more about it, we protect the vulnerable, we get vaccinated, we calm down, it should get better, but I keep saying that and it's not so..... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,919 Posted December 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Gladiators said: Prior to chinavirus, we had deaths from the flu every year. These deaths were accepted by society as part of life. No one was forced to get the flu vaccine. No masks. No social distancing. No hand sanitizer when walking into buildings or sanitizing pens at the front desk or bank. After going through chinavirus, will we get back to normal, or will people be required to get flu shots, continue social distancing and all the other safety measures? As someone said earlier, all the measures we're taking to help prevent the spread of chinavirus are helping prevent the spread of the flu. Someone else said that was common sense. I'd prefer to get back to normal, but I could see all the safety measures we're talking for chinavirus becoming the new normal. It’s not like nothing is ever done to prevent the flu. Doctors have been pushing getting the vaccine every year for awhile. Schools sometimes close when too many kids have it. Hospitals often limit child visitors during flu season. Etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireballer 2,643 Posted December 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Gladiators said: Prior to chinavirus, we had deaths from the flu every year. These deaths were accepted by society as part of life. No one was forced to get the flu vaccine. No masks. No social distancing. No hand sanitizer when walking into buildings or sanitizing pens at the front desk or bank. After going through chinavirus, will we get back to normal, or will people be required to get flu shots, continue social distancing and all the other safety measures? As someone said earlier, all the measures we're taking to help prevent the spread of chinavirus are helping prevent the spread of the flu. Someone else said that was common sense. I'd prefer to get back to normal, but I could see all the safety measures we're talking for chinavirus becoming the new normal. Its almost like experts never recommended wearing a cloth over your face to prevent flu because it doesn't do sh!t. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: I would think we get back to normal at some point. The chinavirus was new and scary and had a much higher death rate than the flu, so we all went a little crazy. Now that we know more about it, we protect the vulnerable, we get vaccinated, we calm down, it should get better, but I keep saying that and it's not so..... 10 minutes ago, TimHauck said: It’s not like nothing is ever done to prevent the flu. Doctors have been pushing getting the vaccine every year for awhile. Schools sometimes close when too many kids have it. Hospitals often limit child visitors during flu season. Etc I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed on us to continue these safety measures. I hope that doesn't happen. Where do we draw lines on what's acceptable? We had an undocumented precedence. The rules may have changed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,899 Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gladiators said: I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed on us to continue these safety measures. I hope that doesn't happen. Where do we draw lines on what's acceptable? We had and undocumented precedence. The rules may have changed. I also think that Trump had alot to do with this. Once he's gone, I'm hoping everyone calms the fock down and stops acting like a bunch of babies. Yes, people die. People die from the flu, people will die from covid, let's get on with our lives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireballer 2,643 Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, GutterBoy said: I also think that Trump had alot to do with this. Once he's gone, I'm hoping everyone calms the fock down and stops acting like a bunch of babies. Yes, people die. People die from the flu, people will die from covid, let's get on with our lives. Yeah, hopefully we can just go back to simply stopping the counting of deaths during pandemics like Obama years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gladiators said: I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed on us to continue these safety measures. I hope that doesn't happen. Where do we draw lines on what's acceptable? We had and undocumented precedence. The rules may have changed. *If* Covid19 mutates you will have to get a vaccine every year like the regular flu shot. The good news is we know that the most vulnerable for death are elderly and those with underlying disease. Spinning it forward I would think we would indeed go back to normal however the CDC would recommend everyone get the vaccine yearly, and those most vulnerable would be crazy not to get it. Deaths would significantly go down, by factors of 10. There would be no reason to shut down anything. If Covid doesn't mutate at all or even slightly then we can all but eradicate it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,692 Posted December 10, 2020 34 minutes ago, Gladiators said: So my question still remains. If 1 death is too many when it comes to chinavirus, are the new norms going to remain so we help prevent the spread of flu and resulting deaths? No, 60k deaths are fine. Apparently the acceptable death limit is somewhere between 125k-200k. It probably is highly dependent on who the president is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, nobody said: No, 60k deaths are fine. Apparently the acceptable death limit is somewhere between 125k-200k. It probably is highly dependent on who the president is. Truer words have never been spoken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: I also think that Trump had alot to do with this. Once he's gone, I'm hoping everyone calms the fock down and stops acting like a bunch of babies. Yes, people die. People die from the flu, people will die from covid, let's get on with our lives. I disagree with respect to Trump having a lot to do with it. I think it was driven by the media. Regardless, I agree that everyone needs to calm down. We do what we can, within reason, to help prevent the spread of chinavirus, and get on with our lives. Unfortunately there's no easy button. We should isolate the elderly and the people with underlying issues need to be extra careful. However, I'm sure people still want to see their elderly parents/grandparents. Probably need proof of vaccination and other safety measures. Beyond that, get the country back up to full force. All of this should have started back in May/June IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, nobody said: No, 60k deaths are fine. Apparently the acceptable death limit is somewhere between 125k-200k. It probably is highly dependent on who the president is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,934 Posted December 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Fireballer said: Its almost like experts never recommended wearing a cloth over your face to prevent flu because it doesn't do sh!t. When you went to see your family doctor with flu like symptoms they didn't wear a mask either. I'm still missing that huge breakthrough study that happened this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,934 Posted December 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, nobody said: No, 60k deaths are fine. Apparently the acceptable death limit is somewhere between 125k-200k. It probably is highly dependent on who the president is. Some years flu deaths reach 100k probably more but we don't count people who die of cancer or motorcycle accidents as flu deaths. Imagine if we did. We could probably get to 300k 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye21 2,400 Posted December 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Gladiators said: I disagree with respect to Trump having a lot to do with it. I think it was driven by the media. Regardless, I agree that everyone needs to calm down. We do what we can, within reason, to help prevent the spread of chinavirus, and get on with our lives. Unfortunately there's no easy button. We should isolate the elderly and the people with underlying issues need to be extra careful. However, I'm sure people still want to see their elderly parents/grandparents. Probably need proof of vaccination and other safety measures. Beyond that, get the country back up to full force. All of this should have started back in May/June IMO. I completely agree with it being on the media but I also think Trump shares a lot of the responsibility as well. I think Trump was part of the reason the media has been so terrible. Trump is a negative person and breeds division. He's a toxic person. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,899 Posted December 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Fireballer said: Yeah, hopefully we can just go back to simply stopping the counting of deaths during pandemics like Obama years. Gov of NJ, Phildo, he still has daily meetings to talk about everyone that died of covid. Not cancer, not heart attacks, not suicides, not poverty, just covid. He's a complete douche. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,899 Posted December 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gladiators said: I disagree with respect to Trump having a lot to do with it. I think it was driven by the media. Regardless, I agree that everyone needs to calm down. We do what we can, within reason, to help prevent the spread of chinavirus, and get on with our lives. Unfortunately there's no easy button. We should isolate the elderly and the people with underlying issues need to be extra careful. However, I'm sure people still want to see their elderly parents/grandparents. Probably need proof of vaccination and other safety measures. Beyond that, get the country back up to full force. All of this should have started back in May/June IMO. In case you haven't noticed, Trump and the media have been at war for years, so yes it was the media, the politicians, the trump haters, they all made this worse than it actually is. And Trump stoking the flames made it all worse. It's all just a dumpster fire, with Carson Wentz jumping out of the dumpster throwing another interception. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted December 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said: I completely agree with it being on the media but I also think Trump shares a lot of the responsibility as well. I think Trump was part of the reason the media has been so terrible. Trump is a negative person and breeds division. He's a toxic person. The news media should be the stewards of truth. The purpose of journalism is to provide the populace with the information they need to make the best possible decisions about their lives, their communities, and governments. I'm not talking Op-Ed's or the late night political shows. I'm talking true news outlets. It doesn't matter who the fock the POTUS is or if they like him or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said: I completely agree with it being on the media but I also think Trump shares a lot of the responsibility as well. I think Trump was part of the reason the media has been so terrible. Trump is a negative person and breeds division. He's a toxic person. I agree to an extent. Trump isn't going to be bullied and the media had it out for him since before he took office. I've gone back and forth on this. I don't like the way Trump talked about/reacted to things, but I also don't want a President who just bends over and doesn't fight back. There has to be a balance. Trump went too far at times, but I give him more leeway than the media. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted December 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: I also think that Trump had alot to do with this. Once he's gone, I'm hoping everyone calms the fock down and stops acting like a bunch of babies. Yes, people die. People die from the flu, people will die from covid, let's get on with our lives. Oh the media will be hanging from Joe's ball sack just like they did with Barry. They are the enemy of the republic. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,919 Posted December 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Cdub100 said: Some years flu deaths reach 100k probably more but we don't count people who die of cancer or motorcycle accidents as flu deaths. Imagine if we did. We could probably get to 300k 61k is the highest amount of estimated flu deaths in the past 10 years. Only 1 other year was more than 43k - https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html About 5k motorcycle deaths per year - https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/motorcycle-safety#:~:text=Overview,still overrepresented in traffic fatalities.. Count 'em all as covid and the # of covid deaths increases by 1.7% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted December 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: In case you haven't noticed, Trump and the media have been at war for years, so yes it was the media, the politicians, the trump haters, they all made this worse than it actually is. And Trump stoking the flames made it all worse. It's all just a dumpster fire, with Carson Wentz jumping out of the dumpster throwing another interception. True story. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016, and after Covid hit early this year, like lots of people, I started working from home. While working I had the news on in the background and do to the severity of the Covid I watched the daily Trump and Covid-19 press conferences. I actually watched what was said, live, for myself. Then I'd read the news online later and see how that press conference was portrayed by the media. I was appalled. The spin, the way they would take things Trump said out of context, the cut and paste job of clips to spin the narrative negatively. And I'm not talking Rachel Maddow's editorial show, I'm talking mainstream news. The six o'clock major news outlets. At that point it all made sense to me why Trump calls them out, I wouldn't be able to take it either. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,692 Posted December 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: It's all just a dumpster fire, with Carson Wentz jumping out of the dumpster throwing another interception. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,899 Posted December 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, KSB2424 said: True story. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016, and after Covid hit early this year, like lots of people, I started working from home. While working I had the news on in the background and do to the severity of the Covid I watched the daily Trump and Covid-19 press conferences. I actually watched what was said, live, for myself. Then I'd read the news online later and see how that press conference was portrayed by the media. I was appalled. The spin, the way they would take things Trump said out of context, the cut and paste job of clips to spin the narrative negatively. And I'm not talking Rachel Maddow's editorial show, I'm talking mainstream news. The six o'clock major news outlets. At that point it all made sense to me why Trump calls them out, I wouldn't be able to take it either. Absolutely, I've seen the same exact thing. And then you had people repeating this too, and then all of a sudden the "truth" is a complete lie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cdub100 3,934 Posted December 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, TimHauck said: 61k is the highest amount of estimated flu deaths in the past 10 years. Only 1 other year was more than 43k - https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html About 5k motorcycle deaths per year - https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/motorcycle-safety#:~:text=Overview,still overrepresented in traffic fatalities.. Count 'em all as covid and the # of covid deaths increases by 1.7% All we need to do is pay hospitals more for flu deaths. Let's pump those numbers up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye21 2,400 Posted December 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, KSB2424 said: The news media should be the stewards of truth. The purpose of journalism is to provide the populace with the information they need to make the best possible decisions about their lives, their communities, and governments. I'm not talking Op-Ed's or the late night political shows. I'm talking true news outlets. It doesn't matter who the fock the POTUS is or if they like him or not. I agree. The problem is that it's all a mess now. No one seems to no what's true and what's not anymore. No matter what the media would say, Trump would call them fake news. People started to think everything the media said was now fake. The media is guilty and so is Trump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye21 2,400 Posted December 10, 2020 47 minutes ago, drobeski said: Oh the media will be hanging from Joe's ball sack just like they did with Barry. They are the enemy of the republic. Fox News was hanging from Obama's ball sack? Let's not pretend that CNN represents all of the media. Fox News hated Obama just the same as CNN hates Trump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,919 Posted December 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, Cdub100 said: Some years flu deaths reach 100k probably more but we don't count people who die of cancer or motorcycle accidents as flu deaths. Imagine if we did. We could probably get to 300k Changes in cancer deaths for the past 2 years below. sources: 2017-2019: https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-counts-of-death-by-jurisdiction-and-cause-o/u6jv-9ijr and 2019-2020: https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Counts-of-Deaths-by-State-and-Select-Causes/muzy-jte6) 2018 vs. 2017: +213, +0.0% 2019 vs. 2018: +404, +0.1% Through the first 8 months/35 weeks of 2020, and this is probably even undercounting 2020 due to delays in reporting, cancer deaths are down -660, or -0.2% I already said earlier that it's possible some cancer deaths were either misclassified as covid or covid killed them instead of cancer, but we're talking about around 1,000 at most. Miniscule in the grand scheme of things (and cancer is the 2nd leading cause of death in the country; the leading cause, heart disease, is actually up 4% over the same time frame) There's really no denying that a lot more people (200k at the absolute minimum) died this year than should have. Don't believe everything you read in the "Johns Hopkins Newsletter." The only possible debate at this point is what's killing them in addition to covid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,513 Posted December 10, 2020 Isn’t the media supposed to be at war with , or at least question, all presidents ? What flavor milkshake Joe? What enchanted you, Mr, Obama? GTFO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,995 Posted December 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said: Fox News was hanging from Obama's ball sack? Let's not pretend that CNN represents all of the media. Fox News hated Obama just the same as CNN hates Trump. I thought you weren't paying attention when Obama was President? I thought you just started following what was going on when Trump got into office. I certainly could be wrong, but that's what I recall. That was your reasoning when people asked you about Obama and how he handled things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,513 Posted December 10, 2020 I wonder if Hawkeye can explain Fox News plummeting ratings, if they were hanging off Trumps ball sack? Just making it up again, despite the truth in black and white. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites