Coronavirus - Doomsday

[Hardcore troubadour 12,745]

On 12/7/2020 at 10:22 PM, wiffleball said:

Oh, FFS:

 

Dec 07, 5:40 pm

Trump officials passed when Pfizer offered US more vaccine doses this summer

The Trump administration declined additional doses of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine late this summer when the pharmaceutical company offered them to the U.S. government, a senior Trump administration official familiar with the matter confirmed to ABC News.

Pfizer may be unable to produce more of the vaccine for United States citizens until June 2021 because it has committed those doses to other countries.

 

 

 

Another nothing burger. Looks like they made you dance once again, monkey boy. 

[TimHauck 1,819]

14 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Another nothing burger. Looks like they made you dance once again, monkey boy. 

Agreed, if we're getting 50 million of the Pfizer doses, and likely some of the Moderna ones too, we should probably be OK until next spring

[tanatastic 2,061]

When will Amazon brand vaccine come out for online order?

[Reality 2,710]

 

[Fireballer 2,394]

45 minutes ago, Reality said:

 

Today will be full of OMB vaccine tweets that aged poorly.

 

[Hawkeye21 1,859]

I'm extremely impressed with how quickly they were able to get a vaccine available to the public.  Operation Warp Speed was definitely one thing I think Trump did a great job with.  Now, I really hope that there are no major side effects so this crap can all be over with sooner than later.

[Cloaca du jour 2,068]

30 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm extremely impressed with how quickly they were able to get a vaccine available to the public.  Operation Warp Speed was definitely one thing I think Trump did a great job with.  Now, I really hope that there are no major side effects so this crap can all be over with sooner than later.

Biden will take credit

[TimHauck 1,819]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

 

Do you think it's safe?

[lod001 1,238]

2 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Biden will take credit

Only if it isn't a miserable failure. If people start convulsing and dropping dead 6 months later, blame Trump.

Everyone else gets to go before me. 

[Hawkeye21 1,859]

15 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Biden will take credit

Wouldn't surprise me.  Trump would do the same thing if he were in Biden's position.  Need to brag about whatever you can.

[Cdub100 3,395]

I don't know about you guys, but I can't wait to be first in line to get this brand new type of vaccine (mRNA) that pharmaceutical companies haven't been able to make work until this year, and was rushed in under 6 months with limited trials, and the companies who supply the vaccine have been granted immunity to any litigation, all brought to by the people who say it's too dangerous for kids to go to school, but okay to go to Disney World.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,745]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Wouldn't surprise me.  Trump would do the same thing if he were in Biden's position.  Need to brag about whatever you can.

Always with the equalizer. Pathetic. 

[Hawkeye21 1,859]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Always with the equalizer. Pathetic. 

Take a look in the mirror dude.  Read all of your recent posts and see just how miserable you sound.

I actually gave Trump credit for something without adding any equalizers or anything like that.  It took a post from another person to add Biden to it yet you only call out my post.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,745]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Take a look in the mirror dude.  Read all of your recent posts and see just how miserable you sound.

I actually gave Trump credit for something without adding any equalizers or anything like that.  It took a post from another person to add Biden to it yet you only call out my post.

You said Trump would have done the same thing. Equalizer. And pathetic. 

[supermike80 1,290]

46 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Biden will take credit

Already pulling that stuff over at FBG.   Saying "Well it was an international effort (because Pfizer has a strong international presence) and the president doesn't matter.  This would have happened anyway

[nobody 2,053]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm extremely impressed with how quickly they were able to get a vaccine available to the public.  Operation Warp Speed was definitely one thing I think Trump did a great job with.  Now, I really hope that there are no major side effects so this crap can all be over with sooner than later.

You're the first left leaning person I've seen give credit to Trump for making the vaccine happen this quickly.  Of course, righties are saying they'd prefer to not be the beta testers and the lefties are calling them kooks for it, so if there are side effects, we'll get to watch the lefties flip-flop similar to the china travel ban and blame Trump for vaccine problems they refuse to give him any credit for.

[Hawkeye21 1,859]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

You're the first left leaning person I've seen give credit to Trump for making the vaccine happen this quickly.  Of course, righties are saying they'd prefer to not be the beta testers and the lefties are calling them looks for it, so if there are side effects, we'll get to watch the lefties flip-flop similar to the china travel ban and blame Trump for vaccine problems they refuse to give him any credit for.

No matter what happens each side will blame the other if there are issues with the vaccine and both sides will take credit if it's successful.  This should be something we can all agree on.

[Cloaca du jour 2,068]

1 hour ago, Cdub100 said:

I don't know about you guys, but I can't wait to be first in line to get this brand new type of vaccine (mRNA) that pharmaceutical companies haven't been able to make work until this year, and was rushed in under 6 months with limited trials, and the companies who supply the vaccine have been granted immunity to any litigation, all brought to by the people who say it's too dangerous for kids to go to school, but okay to go to Disney World.

Agreed!!  Someone mentioned the I am Legend movie..lol too true!  I still say this was a plot to eliminate the burden our growing number of senior citizens put on the economy.

Just my 2c.

[KSB2424 3,085]

1 hour ago, Cdub100 said:

I don't know about you guys, but I can't wait to be first in line to get this brand new type of vaccine (mRNA) that pharmaceutical companies haven't been able to make work until this year, and was rushed in under 6 months with limited trials, and the companies who supply the vaccine have been granted immunity to any litigation, all brought to by the people who say it's too dangerous for kids to go to school, but okay to go to Disney World.

I am wary of any therapeutic or vaccine that is new.   We've seen numerous times where a drug or vaccine has had negative side effects over time and thus either tweaked or taken off market.  With that said the reason this vaccine (and others) was able to happen so fast isn't because the normal steps were rushed its that the gov't stepped in with funding and mitigated the financial risk these companies normally take which ramped up the speed to production in parallels. 

Quote

Rather than eliminating steps from traditional development timelines, steps will proceed simultaneously, such as starting manufacturing of the vaccine at industrial scale well before the demonstration of vaccine efficacy and safety as happens normally. This increases the financial risk, but not the product risk.

 

[Cdub100 3,395]

23 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Rather than eliminating steps from traditional development timelines, steps will proceed simultaneously, such as starting manufacturing of the vaccine at industrial scale well before the demonstration of vaccine efficacy and safety as happens normally. This increases the financial risk, but not the product risk.

 

It absolutely increases product risks. There are reasons we follow steps when building cars, airplanes, software, vaccines etc...

[lod001 1,238]

Like I said, death by car wreck = covid.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/covid-killing-people-more-ways-133019750.html

As if the 300,000 dead in the U.S. from Covid-19 weren’t horrific enough, consider how many more have died from the pandemic’s indirect effects. Evidence from the Centers for Disease Control suggests mortality is higher in 2020 than expected for reasons beyond coronavirus infections. Most of the excess deaths are health-related, but they extend as far as motor vehicle crashes.

[vomit 502]

This vaccine has been worked on for years.  That's why this specific covid vaccine was able to be developed so quickly.

The hope is that the success here will lead to a similar vaccine for cancer in the near term.

[supermike80 1,290]

21 minutes ago, vomit said:

This vaccine has been worked on for years.  That's why this specific covid vaccine was able to be developed so quickly.

The hope is that the success here will lead to a similar vaccine for cancer in the near term.

Man wouldn't that be the sheet

[Utilit99 4,099]

24 minutes ago, vomit said:

This vaccine has been worked on for years.  That's why this specific covid vaccine was able to be developed so quickly.

The hope is that the success here will lead to a similar vaccine for cancer in the near term.

Awesome. Trump cures the chinese flu and cancer. 

[Reality 2,710]

40 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Like I said, death by car wreck = covid.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/covid-killing-people-more-ways-133019750.html

As if the 300,000 dead in the U.S. from Covid-19 weren’t horrific enough, consider how many more have died from the pandemic’s indirect effects. Evidence from the Centers for Disease Control suggests mortality is higher in 2020 than expected for reasons beyond coronavirus infections. Most of the excess deaths are health-related, but they extend as far as motor vehicle crashes.

This will come as news to some folks in this thread.  Every death over last year's death count has already been counted as a Covid death around these parts.

[Cdub100 3,395]

28 minutes ago, vomit said:

This vaccine has been worked on for years.  That's why this specific covid vaccine was able to be developed so quickly.

The hope is that the success here will lead to a similar vaccine for cancer in the near term.

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Reality said:

This will come as news to some folks in this thread.  Every death over last year's death count has already been counted as a Covid death around these parts.

I'm thinking screw the vaccine. The chinese flu is curing every other thing people die of in this country.

[vomit 502]

9 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/covid-19-vaccines-raise-hope-for-cancer-throw-open-new-field-of-medicine-120121300314_1.html

[TimHauck 1,819]

47 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Like I said, death by car wreck = covid.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/covid-killing-people-more-ways-133019750.html

As if the 300,000 dead in the U.S. from Covid-19 weren’t horrific enough, consider how many more have died from the pandemic’s indirect effects. Evidence from the Centers for Disease Control suggests mortality is higher in 2020 than expected for reasons beyond coronavirus infections. Most of the excess deaths are health-related, but they extend as far as motor vehicle crashes.

Did you read this article?

Bolding mine:

A recent analysis based on the CDC data shows that 40,000 more Americans than expected died this year from diabetes, Alzheimer’s, high blood pressure and pneumonia. Some of these deaths may have been caused by the virus and just recorded improperly

Some of the Alzheimer's ones could be due to lockdowns, but pneumonia is the most common symptom of covid, and high blood pressure and diabetes are 2 of the most common comorbidities - I agree not every excess death this year has been due to covid, but this particular data point certainly seems to be suggesting that the specific covid number is actually undercounted, not overcounted.

Also re: car accidents:

The absolute number of deaths in the second quarter of 2020 is estimated to be lower than in the same period of 2019, because miles driven fell by more than the increase in the death rate.

[KSB2424 3,085]

1 hour ago, Cdub100 said:

It absolutely increases product risks. There are reasons we follow steps when building cars, airplanes, software, vaccines etc...

Steps were followed, just in parallel with the gov't help with the financial risk that comes with doing it that way.  You didn't even read what I wrote did you?  Also vomit is right, another reason for the quick turn-a-round was the platform for this virus was already in place.  

 

Quote

 

4. Corners were not cut in the clinical trials and approvals process

Vaccine trials take place in stages, starting with trials on animals, and then three trials on people – Phase 1, Phase 2 and finally Phase 3. 

The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine Phase 3 trial involved more than 40,000 people. It began in July and will continue to collect efficacy and safety data for another two years.

Safety issues that would affect significant numbers of vaccines mostly appear within two months, Prof. Goldman says.

However, after a vaccine is given to millions of people, very rare side effects that cannot be anticipated from clinical trials might develop, so researchers and regulators will be keeping a close eye on how the vaccine rollout goes. This will be especially important for Covid-19 vaccines based on innovative technology.

Regulatory agencies reviewed the data from Covid-19 vaccine trials more quickly than usual by looking at it on a rolling basis rather than only once the trials were complete, but they did not fundamentally change their rules. ‘I really don’t think that corners were cut in terms of safety,’ said Prof. Goldman.

The process was faster than usual because researchers had already built an mRNA platform – a way of getting viral mRNA into the body – for cancer and other vaccines under trial. It meant this could be put into action as soon as the genomic sequence of the virus was shared.

Companies and governments also took the risk of producing large numbers of vaccines even before the the first stages of experimentation had been completed, which meant they were ready to begin large human trials as soon as the results were in.

‘It’s a financial risk, because if you were wrong all this is lost. That’s why the risk is shared between the private companies and the governments,’ said Prof. Goldman.

 

 

[Cdub100 3,395]

13 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Steps were followed, just in parallel with the gov't help with the financial risk that comes with doing it that way.  You didn't even read what I wrote did you?  Also vomit is right, another reason for the quick turn-a-round was the platform for this virus was already in place.  

 

 

Yes I read what you wrote and I'm trying to explain to you there's a reason steps come after each other that you have milestones and gates that need to be passed.

Saying they ran in parallel means rushed and less secure. That's day one of project management.

 

[Strike 4,003]

1 minute ago, Cdub100 said:

Yes I read what you wrote and I'm trying to explain to you there's a reason steps come after each other that you have milestones and gates that need to be passed.

Saying they ran in parrelle means rushed and less secure. That's day one of project management.

 

Not sure what you're saying here.  The parallel operations were testing while manufacturing.  I don't see how that means "rushed and less secure."

[vomit 502]

3 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Yes I read what you wrote and I'm trying to explain to you there's a reason steps come after each other that you have milestones and gates that need to be passed.

Saying they ran in parrelle means rushed and less secure. That's day one of project management.

 

What he's saying is they manufactured the drug in parallel with the clinical trial.  This is risky because if the clinical trial fails, then you have to throw away everything you manufactured.  If it succeeds, then you saved yourself another 6mos to a year.  It doesn't make it any less secure.

You can run tasks in parallel as long as you understand the risk, project mgmt day 2.

[Cdub100 3,395]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Not sure what you're saying here.  The parallel operations were testing while manufacturing.  I don't see how that means "rushed and less secure."

It takes years to develope a vaccine. They haven't been able to use mRNA in a vaccine yet. That is until now. 

The article is meant to ease the worries of people who don't know any better. Often there has to be long term studies of the side effects of a vaccine and long term effectiveness.

Yes it was rushed that in of itself inserts additional risk. Especially with a new technology that has never been used before in a vaccine.

You guys know I love Trump and should be banging the drum of this vaccine as one of his great achievements during his presidency. It was rushed and there are very real risks in taking it.

Btw I'm not saying don't take it. Just know that there could be serious unplanned effects. I get the feeling well be see commercials in 5 years saying did you take the pfizer covid vaccine in 2021 you maybe entitled to compensation.

[Utilit99 4,099]

4 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

It takes years to develope a vaccine. They haven't been able to use mRNA in a vaccine yet. That is until now. 

The article is meant to ease the worries of people who don't know any better. Often there has to be long term studies of the side effects of a vaccine and long term effectiveness.

Yes it was rushed that in of itself inserts additional risk. Especially with a new technology that has never been used before in a vaccine.

You guys know I love Trump and should be banging the drum of this vaccine as one of his great achievements during his presidency. It was rushed and there are very real risks in taking it.

Btw I'm not saying don't take it. Just know that there could be serious unplanned effects. I get the feeling well be see commercials in 5 years saying did you take the pfizer covid vaccine in 2021 you maybe entitled to compensation.

The biggest side affect will be people dying again from cancer, gun shot wounds, hit by car, diabetes, old age, seasonal flu, etc...

[Cdub100 3,395]

3 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

The biggest side affect will be people dying again from cancer, gun shot wounds, hit by car, diabetes, old age, seasonal flu, etc...

Well yeah that too. It just blows my mind how people just believe everything they read after 2020. There are has been so many lies and misinformation that everything should be met with distrust and caution.

Instead these guys are like yeah mRNA has NEVER been used before and sure this vaccine was developed 4x faster than any other vaccine in history. And yes the government is protecting the manufacturers from lawsuits.

But don't worry it was developed in parallel and there are no risk.

 

[KSB2424 3,085]

30 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Yes I read what you wrote and I'm trying to explain to you there's a reason steps come after each other that you have milestones and gates that need to be passed.

Saying they ran in parallel means rushed and less secure. That's day one of project management.

 

Dude.   

The parallel part is clinical trials and distribution ramping up were at the same time, not the clinical trial stages.  
 

 

 

[KSB2424 3,085]

59 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Well yeah that too. It just blows my mind how people just believe everything they read after 2020. There are has been so many lies and misinformation that everything should be met with distrust and caution.

Instead these guys are like yeah mRNA has NEVER been used before and sure this vaccine was developed 4x faster than any other vaccine in history. And yes the government is protecting the manufacturers from lawsuits.

But don't worry it was developed in parallel and there are no risk.

 

Who said there was no risk?  Of course there is.....   Now you’re just making up stuff.  

Dont get me wrong, I have reservations myself because it’s new, but it will months before it’s available to people who are generally healthy and under 60.  

[vomit 502]

8 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Well yeah that too. It just blows my mind how people just believe everything they read after 2020. There are has been so many lies and misinformation that everything should be met with distrust and caution.

Instead these guys are like yeah mRNA has NEVER been used before and sure this vaccine was developed 4x faster than any other vaccine in history. And yes the government is protecting the manufacturers from lawsuits.

But don't worry it was developed in parallel and there are no risk.

 

Dude, manufactuers have had limited liability for vaccines for years, because that was killing the market.  You saw limited vaccines being developed because it just wasn't worth the risk.  This is nothing new with covid.  Please educate yourself before espousing lies.

[vomit 502]

7 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Who said there was no risk?  Of course there is.....   Now you’re just making up stuff.  

And again he denies the fact that mRNA vaccines have been developed for many years.