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Cancelling School Year

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3 minutes ago, Strike said:

So you can point me to a directive on what ALL teachers are supposed to be doing, how it is being graded and appropriate credit being given, etc.....I'm glad your wife teaches arts and crafts.  We're talking about real subjects here like Math and Science.  What you've described is unorganized and piece meal at best.  It's certainly not up to the standards we strive for in our education system. 

BTW, what you've described your wife doing is not new learning.  It's the equivalent of grading papers and sending them back.  Is she continuing to teach her tech class via Zoom? 

You're a dumbazz.

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11 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Oh, absolutely.  If you're still in school, you certainly should get the degree, because you'd assume that the you'll be working for 30 years +/- and it's better in the long run.  I'm older, turning the big 4 - 0 this year, so a lot of my friends are in their 40's and 50's and at the time they were in school, a Master's wasn't even thought of as worth while unless you planned on being an administrator.  So now, they'll be retiring in like 10 to 15 years... why go back and get the degree when it's not worth it.  From what I here, the average raise for high school is about $5k ($3k for middle school), for a Masters, but again, is it worth and hassle to go back and get one (if you never got one before)?  Most of my friends say "No", because they don't want to deal with the school process, pay the money, get only a small bump, then retire in 10 years.  From a mathematical stand point, they can make more money by investing that $12k in something else and the yield will be more than the pay bump.

As you said, some things may require a masters, and that's fine.  In general though, most teachers don't need them.  I think it's usually the specialists, I think, that need masters degrees.

A little anecdote.  In my old high school, a girl who graduated 3 years ahead of my draft class became the principal of our old high school about 5 years ago.  I saw her about a year ago, and in passing stated that she'd just gotten her Phd.  A city council member told me that it cost her $37k to get that Phd.  That got her a $3k raise.  She's going to have to work 13 more years to recoup that money... she'll be 56 when that degree pays for itself.  She said she plans on retiring between 55 and 60.

Yeah, I don't think it makes much sense once you're past a certain age.  The cost vs. pay increase just doesn't make sense.

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5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You're a dumbazz.

So you can't.  Gotcha.  About what I figured.  Just making stuff up.

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1 minute ago, Strike said:

So you can't.  Gotcha.  About what I figured.  Just making stuff up.

You equated teaching a technology class to arts and crafts.  Why would I waste my time on you?

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Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

You equated teaching a technology class to arts and crafts.  Why would I waste my time on you?

Trying to have  discussion with you is like trying to have a discussion with Sho Dumb.  I forgot I had long ago realized that.  You proving your stupidity once again just reinforces the point.  Thanks!

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Ok...so heres what my daughter has to do...various classes...

Read books and have discussions online via zoom and google docs with other students...similar to any college online class...and write a paper.

Her science class has them doing notes and some worksheets with some videos and videos of experiments where they comment on what is happening.  They are also given experimental data to draw graphs and make conclusions about.  Seems good to me.  Its not face to face..but the teachers are trying to do something.  Some teachers are struggling to be creative but do you honestly think a kid is going to do 8 hours of schoolwork a day? T

eachers are in new territory as well...its a learning curve...

 

Feel free to take over anytime...it is your kid in the end

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1 minute ago, Strike said:

Trying to have  discussion with you is like trying to have a discussion with Sho Dumb.  I forgot I had long ago realized that.  You proving your stupidity once again just reinforces the point.  Thanks!

I can have a conversation but it's hard to with people such as yourself when you act like an azz.  Have you considered that you might be the problem when it comes to a decent discussion?

If you can't see how a technology course may be very important in this day and age then I don't know what to say to you.  My wife teaches middle school right now and has taught high school as well.  She handles multiple subjects depending on what they need her for.  She went to college to teach English and literature.  She now teaches STEM courses and math on top of English and literature.  I should have said she teaches STEM courses instead of just technology before, maybe you wouldn't have called it arts and crafts then.

While I was home for lunch she was having a one on one with a student using Zoom.  She does this with all her students just like a lot of teachers are doing right now.

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1 minute ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Ok...so heres what my daughter has to do...various classes...

Read books and have discussions online via zoom and google docs with other students...similar to any college online class...and write a paper.

Her science class has them doing notes and some worksheets with some videos and videos of experiments where they comment on what is happening.  They are also given experimental data to draw graphs and make conclusions about.  Seems good to me.  Its not face to face..but the teachers are trying to do something.  Some teachers are struggling to be creative but do you honestly think a kid is going to do 8 hours of schoolwork a day? T

eachers are in new territory as well...its a learning curve...

 

Feel free to take over anytime...it is your kid in the end

It's not ideal but I think it's going to be enough for the majority of students to get them through to the next year.  I know face to face is important for many students but some don't do as well.  Not all kids learn the same way.

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I know her teacher has said via announcement on google classroom only 20 percent of her kids have even looked at it after 2 weeks...and only 7 have turned anything in on time...so...how do you fix that?  Call home?

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Just now, Cloaca du jour said:

I know her teacher has said via announcement on google classroom only 20 percent of her kids have even looked at it after 2 weeks...and only 7 have turned anything in on time...so...how do you fix that?  Call home?

That may be the hardest part of the whole thing.  Trying to hold students accountable is tough.  Teachers would have to call home and get parents involved.  I don't have the answer.  That's what school districts are in the process of doing now.  My wife said they are required to do so many hours of Teacher Development while they are off.  I think he school is requiring 40 hours but another school is requiring 100 hours.

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8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I can have a conversation but it's hard to with people such as yourself when you act like an azz.  Have you considered that you might be the problem when it comes to a decent discussion?

I don't have a lot of prerequisites to trying to have a productive conversation with people.  The one absolute is if they're going to make sweeping general statements they can support them.  This is the quote I responded to initially:

Quote

Most students are working on their studies while being out of school. Many schools are doing classes online. 

I had to ask you twice to support this and the best you can come up with is that your wife is teaching kids how to use a 3D printer and sent their previously completely assignments back to them.  That's idiotic bullsh*t on the same level as Trump. 

Sorry, if you can't back a statement up don't make it, or you'll get blasted for it.

 

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1 minute ago, Strike said:

I don't have a lot of prerequisites to trying to have a productive conversation with people.  The one absolute is if they're going to make sweeping general statements they can support them.  This is the quote I responded to initially:

I had to ask you twice to support this and the best you can come up with is that your wife is teaching kids how to use a 3D printer and sent their previously completely assignments back to them.  That's idiotic bullsh*t on the same level as Trump. 

Sorry, if you can't back a statement up don't make it, or you'll get blasted for it.

 

I dont understand the anger...where is it coming from?

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Just now, Cloaca du jour said:

I dont understand the anger...where is it coming from?

Not angry at all.  Just hate wasting my time.  If I am feeling any aggression it's at myself for engaging with someone I had long ago determined wasn't worth engaging with, and that's very minor.

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Just now, Strike said:

I don't have a lot of prerequisites to trying to have a productive conversation with people.  The one absolute is if they're going to make sweeping general statements they can support them.  This is the quote I responded to initially:

I had to ask you twice to support this and the best you can come up with is that your wife is teaching kids how to use a 3D printer and sent their previously completely assignments back to them.  That's idiotic bullsh*t on the same level as Trump. 

Sorry, if you can't back a statement up don't make it, or you'll get blasted for it.

 

My wife has has her students.  My kids have their own teachers.  My two sister-in-laws have students.  My friends have students.  They all teach in different school districts in various states and are all working with their students in different ways.  Some have one-on-one meetings with students.  Some are meeting with all their kids online using Zoom.  The have projects and assignments they work on.

You are going out of your way to make this difficult.  My wife teaches STEM course.  STEM stands for Science, Technology, Engineering and Math.  They were currently working on using a 3D printer which requires the kids to come up with ideas for a project then program the printer to make it.   They also do things like coding.  It opens them up to a lot of different career paths after school.

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6 minutes ago, Strike said:

Not angry at all.  Just hate wasting my time.  If I am feeling any aggression it's at myself for engaging with someone I had long ago determined wasn't worth engaging with, and that's very minor.

I've done nothing but try and have a good conversation in this thread.  You seem to be the only one going out of your way to be difficult about it.

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On 3/24/2020 at 10:12 AM, KSB2424 said:

 I do math and she does the rest.

:dunno:

I'd maybe see if she can handle the math, but otherwise that sounds like a solid plan 👍

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14 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I've done nothing but try and have a good conversation in this thread.  You seem to be the only one going out of your way to be difficult about it.

Then you'll be able to provide me with some proof that "Most" kids are studying.  I don't buy it.  And all your anecdotal evidence doesn't change that.  I am impressed that all your friends and family chose teaching as a profession though.  Kudos.

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I will agree with Hawkeye in that I think the greater majority of kids are doing their due diligence based on what's available to them.  I do however think that kids that have a lesser than desired quality of home life are being negatively impacted... significantly.

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2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I will agree with Hawkeye in that I think the greater majority of kids are doing their due diligence based on what's available to them.  I do however think that kids that have a lesser than desired quality of home life are being negatively impacted... significantly.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Hawkeye, which he ignored.  Do you really think a kid can learn high level Math by them-self such that they'll be prepared for the next level next year without any classroom instruction? 

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5 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Hawkeye, which he ignored.  Do you really think a kid can learn high level Math by them-self such that they'll be prepared for the next level next year without any classroom instruction? 

No, I don't think they're learning enough nor do I think they're getting out of it like they should... but I do think the vast majority are at least doing what they're asked to do.

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12 minutes ago, Strike said:

Then you'll be able to provide me with some proof that "Most" kids are studying.  I don't buy it.  And all your anecdotal evidence doesn't change that.  I am impressed that all your friends and family chose teaching as a profession though.  Kudos.

I'm not sure how I can provide you with proof other than what I've seen and am told from teachers and parents. :dunno: Maybe saying "majority" was not wise but I really do think a lot of students are working on school to some degree while stuck at home.

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Our schools are now closed through May 4th.  We will see what happens a few weeks from now as I doubt they will hit that date.  Easter doesn't look feasible.  :dunno:

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7 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'll ask you the same thing I asked Hawkeye, which he ignored.  Do you really think a kid can learn high level Math by them-self such that they'll be prepared for the next level next year without any classroom instruction? 

If a student really wanted to learn advanced math, don't those resources exist outside of the classroom?  I imagine there are educational websites and resources on YouTube.

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not sure how I can provide you with proof other than what I've seen and am told from teachers and parents. :dunno: Maybe saying "majority" was not wise but I really do think a lot of students are working on school to some degree while stuck at home.

I don't doubt some are.  Maybe a majority.  But there are some subjects you just can't learn yourself.  If I'm going to an extreme, let's talk "Radioactive Physics."  But at the high school level, high achievers, especially in STEM which supposedly Hawkeye is familiar with, aren't going to be learning most of the topics they're taking by self study.  AP Physics, AP Chemistry, Trig, Math Analysis/Calculus.  If they could then, as I told Hawkeye, we'd have fixed all of our educational issues.  Home study for EVERYONE!!!

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Just now, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Our schools are now closed through May 4th.  We will see what happens a few weeks from now as I doubt they will hit that date.  Easter doesn't look feasible.  :dunno:

Yeah, I'm thinking that Easter is wishful thinking.  Star Wars day is nice to hope for.  I think that the school year could legitimately be saved if the kids can get into the classroom by then.

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2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

If a student really wanted to learn advanced math, don't those resources exist outside of the classroom?  I imagine there are educational websites and resources on YouTube.

Yep,  I wish Youtube was available when I was in college.  Calc III would have been much easier learning from YouTube than an actual Math teacher.  :doh:

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, I'm thinking that Easter is wishful thinking.  Star Wars day is nice to hope for.  I think that the school year could legitimately be saved if the kids can get into the classroom by then.

I had no faith in Easter.  I don't have much faith in May 4th either.  I think that we are looking at mid-to-late May if we go with an 8-9 week period like they did in China.  Of course, all of the asssholes who are ignoring social distancing are just extending that date.  

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4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not sure how I can provide you with proof other than what I've seen and am told from teachers and parents. :dunno: Maybe saying "majority" was not wise but I really do think a lot of students are working on school to some degree while stuck at home.

If you had said "some" I most certainly would have agreed with you.  But there would still be the pesky issue of subjects that are hard to self learn.  I mean, if everything was so easy to just learn by yourself why are we always having discussions about teacher pay?  They clearly don't have much value if we can simply shut the schools down for the last third of the year and expect all those students to be as prepared next year without teachers as they would have been with them.

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1 minute ago, Strike said:

I don't doubt some are.  Maybe a majority.  But there are some subjects you just can't learn yourself.  If I'm going to an extreme, let's talk "Radioactive Physics."  But at the high school level, high achievers, especially in STEM which supposedly Hawkeye is familiar with, aren't going to be learning most of the topics they're taking by self study.  AP Physics, AP Chemistry, Trig, Math Analysis/Calculus.  If they could then, as I told Hawkeye, we'd have fixed all of our educational issues.  Home study for EVERYONE!!!

Home study has always been available though.  It's a matter of wanting to do it.  Parents do it with their kids.  Celebrities and athletes do it.  I know a high school kid who travels to fish the national kayak bass tourneys and doesn't go to school.  His family home schools him so he can fish and try and make a career of it.  Obviously that's not for everyone though.

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3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yep,  I wish Youtube was available when I was in college.  Calc III would have been much easier learning from YouTube than an actual Math teacher.  :doh:

Couldn't you have a similar experience doing a video conference with a Calc teacher?  

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1 minute ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

I had no faith in Easter.  I don't have much faith in May 4th either.  I think that we are looking at mid-to-late May if we go with an 8-9 week period like they did in China.  Of course, all of the asssholes who are ignoring social distancing are just extending that date.  

I agree.

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Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Home study has always been available though.  It's a matter of wanting to do it.  Parents do it with their kids.  Celebrities and athletes do it.  I know a high school kid who travels to fish the national kayak bass tourneys and doesn't go to school.  His family home schools him so he can fish and try and make a career of it.  Obviously that's not for everyone though.

Not for credit unless you register as doing so and have a curriculum.   You don't get to go to school, get the books, and say C-ya I'm gonna go study these at home.

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4 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Our schools are now closed through May 4th.  We will see what happens a few weeks from now as I doubt they will hit that date.  Easter doesn't look feasible.  :dunno:

Our schools are basically the same for now, before the actual break there was some virtual classes every few days but, no actual teaching.

My kid is a junior in high school, honors classes, A student, very tough workload.  There has been no actual teaching going on since they started working from home.  There is no chance the kids in our area are ready to move on to the next year of school or subsequent classes the way things stand at this point.  There is a real problem here and forcing kids to the next level without learning this year's work is going to be a disaster.

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Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Couldn't you have a similar experience doing a video conference with a Calc teacher?  

This is what I asked you to show me.  If this is happening, and there are appropriate milestones/testing being done remotely, fine.  But what you've advocated is an honor system.  Just pass everyone on to the next grade on the assumption they've been studying and learning the material. 

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Just now, Strike said:

This is what I asked you to show me.  If this is happening, and there are appropriate milestones/testing being done remotely, fine.  But what you've advocated is an honor system.  Just pass everyone on to the next grade on the assumption they've been studying and learning the material. 

I thought I mentioned a couple times on here that teachers are doing that.  That's what Zoom is.

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On 3/24/2020 at 1:13 PM, vuduchile said:

Not apples to apples anyway.  
 

$50K in NJ is much different then $50K in A salary of $65,000 in Des Moines, Iowa should increase to $123,417 in Jersey City, New Jersey (assumptions include Homeowner, no Child Care, and Taxes are not considered

Public school teachers in the northeast make way more than 50k. 

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5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I thought I mentioned a couple times on here that teachers are doing that.  That's what Zoom is.

There you go again.  Making a generalized statement without proof.  Can you show me that a significant number of high level math teachers are continuing to teach their classes via video conference?  I don't want your opinion.  I want proof.

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The kids in my district will use one of two platforms for study: Seesaw or Schoology.  From these, teachers can post videos of themselves actually teaching a lesson.  There won't be the immediate feedback you see within a classroom but kids will sit and learn a lesson from a teacher teaching it online.  If they have questions, they are encouraged to ask them using one of those platforms or by setting up a chat via Google Hangouts or Zoom.  Optimal?  No.  But my wife and I place a high value on education and know that it is our duty as parents to help educate our kids.  We'll help out teachers as much as we can.

 

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2 minutes ago, Strike said:

There you go again.  Making a generalized statement without proof.  Can you show me that a significant number of high level math teachers are continuing to teach their classes via video conference?  I don't want your opinion.  I want proof.

I can't prove that a majority of them are.  I personally know teachers who are doing it and I've seen reports of many others doing it.  As for being high level math teachers, I have no idea.  I don't even know how to possibly prove that to you.

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