Afghanistan

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Gonna be a while until you can sell that BS, given that you just recently put one in the White House

You should quickly be able to rattle of all of his whacky policies. Go! 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You should quickly be able to rattle of all of his whacky policies. Go! 

Just like with Boebert, MTG and the other crazies, it was really his rhetoric more than anything. But I suppose we could start with trying to reverse the results of a free and fair democratic election because he lost (got his butt kicked, actually), and then starting a riot at the Capitol. Can back up a little bit as well to when he was impeached for using military aid as blackmail to get another country to interfere in a US presidential election for his benefit. There’s more but I’m really not too interested in relitigating the past

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

Just like with Boebert, MTG and the other crazies, it was really his rhetoric more than anything. But I suppose we could start with trying to reverse the results of a free and fair democratic election because he lost (got his butt kicked, actually), and then starting a riot at the Capitol. Can back up a little bit as well to when he was impeached for using military aid as blackmail to get another country to interfere in a US presidential election for his benefit. There’s more but I’m really not too interested in relitigating the past

Oh, so it was the tweets, not what he did. Got it. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

5 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

This is probably a fair discussion, but I've seen the claim that we should now be expecting attacks on the US by the Taliban.   But if the Taliban is getting what they want by taking control of Afghanistan, why would they attack us?   I'd see more reason for them to attack us if we bombed the hell out of them first...

Is this a real post? You don't see a reason why thr extreme and violent Taliban government wouldn't house terrorists and be cool with thr. Carrying out attacks on the US here ot abroad? 

Get what they want? We were over there for 20 years blowing thrm up and keeping them out.  

Really?  

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

Just like with Boebert, MTG and the other crazies, it was really his rhetoric more than anything. But I suppose we could start with trying to reverse the results of a free and fair democratic election because he lost (got his butt kicked, actually), and then starting a riot at the Capitol. Can back up a little bit as well to when he was impeached for using military aid as blackmail to get another country to interfere in a US presidential election for his benefit. There’s more but I’m really not too interested in relitigating the past

You have nothing is what you are saying.  Backpedal and say nevermind its really his rhetoric.  Then go on to name a few broad things that didn't even happen.

[TimHauck 2,906]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Is this a real post? You don't see a reason why thr extreme and violent Taliban government wouldn't house terrorists and be cool with thr. Carrying out attacks on the US here ot abroad? 

Get what they want? We were over there for 20 years blowing thrm up and keeping them out.  

Really?  

So why haven't they done it more since 2001 (in the US specifically)?  And why would they all of the sudden increase it now that we're leaving the place they were mad about us being for 20 years?

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, TimHauck said:

So why haven't they done it more since 2001 (in the US specifically)?  And why would they all of the sudden increase it now that we're leaving the place they were mad about us being for 20 years?

Because we went in an occupied a main terrorist training ground and focused more on security at home.

Now Afghanistan is wide open to be used as a base for terrorist organizations.  

Not to mention we are bringing a bunch of trained young afghan men over here.  Some radicals no doubt will slip in.  

 

[TimHauck 2,906]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Because we went in an occupied a main terrorist training ground and focused more on security at home.

Now Afghanistan is wide open to be used as a base for terrorist organizations.  

Not to mention we are bringing a bunch of trained young afghan men over here.  Some radicals no doubt will slip in.  

 

So you disagree with what Trump's plan was and are saying we should have stayed there forever?

[listen2me 23 1,873]

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/14/1027375958/taliban-afghanistan-takeover-the-world-humanitarian-china-pakistan

Used a rag so you will approve.  Is this that hard to comprehend?  Most anyone understands this.  This is basically common knowledge.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Because we went in an occupied a main terrorist training ground and focused more on security at home.

Now Afghanistan is wide open to be used as a base for terrorist organizations.  

Not to mention we are bringing a bunch of trained young afghan men over here.  Some radicals no doubt will slip in.  

 

No way. You mean the same people that let anyone in via our southern border, from all over the world, including terrorist hot spots, are going to now be trusted to keep the bad guys from Afghanistan out? Nah, they’ll get this one right. Eye roll. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, TimHauck said:

So you disagree with what Trump's plan was and are saying we should have stayed there forever?

Id of kept the 2500 over there.  But no we shouldn't of been there from the start and should focus more on homeland security.  

Id of brought Americans back in the refugee packet.  No Afghans.  No way.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

So you disagree with what Trump's plan was and are saying we should have stayed there forever?

Trumps plan also included not letting people come here from these terrorist hot spots. But that’s racist, remember? 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Why is Tim obsessed with Trump?   Changing the discussion like Biden fid last night?

[TimHauck 2,906]

4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Why is Tim obsessed with Trump?   Changing the discussion like Biden fid last night?

I'm not obsessed with Trump and didn't listen to Biden's speech.   I agree there are instances where bringing up Trump is stupid but this one is relevant since many people are putting the majority of the blame on Biden when Trump also planned to get out.   The criticism on Biden for the way it went down is fair, but you're now saying you think we should have kept a presence there which it doesn't seem like most people agree with.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, TimHauck said:

I'm not obsessed with Trump and didn't listen to Biden's speech.   I agree there are instances where bringing up Trump is stupid but this one is relevant since many people are putting the majority of the blame on Biden when Trump also planned to get out.   The criticism on Biden for the way it went down is fair, but you're now saying you think we should have kept a presence there which it doesn't seem like most people agree with.

Reports I have seen say the Generals told Biden thr Taliban would take over quick.  

July 8th Biden asked if that would happen and he basically said no very unlikely.  

So either Biden has crap communication with his generals and intel.  Went against them.  Or they got it flat out wrong. 

Do you know for sure Trump would have pulled thr 2500 out if his generals told him thr Taliban would quickly take over? 

What are you even arguing? You asked me the question of why the Taliban (a government) attack thr US now all of a sudden? I gave you my answer then you go babbling about Trump.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I'm not obsessed with Trump and didn't listen to Biden's speech.   I agree there are instances where bringing up Trump is stupid but this one is relevant since many people are putting the majority of the blame on Biden when Trump also planned to get out.   The criticism on Biden for the way it went down is fair, but you're now saying you think we should have kept a presence there which it doesn't seem like most people agree with.

Sigh. No one has an issue, save some people still buying the neo-con propaganda, with getting out. It’s how we got out that’s the problem. It’s easy enough to see, yet you refuse. You never will. 

[TimHauck 2,906]

4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Reports I have seen say the Generals told Biden thr Taliban would take over quick.  

July 8th Biden asked if that would happen and he basically said no very unlikely.  

So either Biden has crap communication with his generals and intel.  Went against them.  Or they got it flat out wrong. 

Do you know for sure Trump would have pulled thr 2500 out if his generals told him thr Taliban would quickly take over? 

What are you even arguing? You asked me the question of why the Taliban (a government) attack thr US now all of a sudden? I gave you my answer then you go babbling about Trump.

I'm arguing the same question I asked you.   I don't see why the Taliban would try harder now than the prior 20 years to attack the US since they're getting what they want.   I get their other reasons for wanting to attack us, but I don't think that's changed in the past week, and again if anything there should be less reason since we're leaving (which the speed at which that happened wouldn't have really mattered).

[TimHauck 2,906]

10 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Sigh. No one has an issue, save some people still buying the neo-con propaganda, with getting out. It’s how we got out that’s the problem. It’s easy enough to see, yet you refuse. You never will. 

Look one post above you.   Listen2me23 is saying we shouldn't have left.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Look one post above you.   Listen2me23 is saying we shouldn't have left.

And thats his opinion. Even though I disagree, It’s grounded in a lot more reality than what you’re spouting. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Just now, TimHauck said:

Look one post above you.   Listen2me23 is saying we shouldn't have left.

I wouldnt have got up and took thr remaining 2500 out only to send 6k back in.  No no I wouldnt have.  

 

[Strike 5,574]

16 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I'm not obsessed with Trump and didn't listen to Biden's speech.   I agree there are instances where bringing up Trump is stupid but this one is relevant since many people are putting the majority of the blame on Biden when Trump also planned to get out.   The criticism on Biden for the way it went down is fair, but you're now saying you think we should have kept a presence there which it doesn't seem like most people agree with.

Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, or maybe his plan was subject to change.  Biden was counseled back in April that what happened over the weekend is exactly what would happen, and that we should leave a small force in Afghanistan to maintain stability.  He overrode those knowledgeable advisers.  Trump had drawn down our number of people in Afghanistan but, as Worms has so astutely pointed out repeatedly in this thread, had not followed through with a complete removal.  We do not know if he ever would have. 

Now, even if Trump did follow through with a complete removal, that doesn't mean he would have done it the same way Biden did, just cut and run and leave the Afghans high and dry.  And that has been my main point of contention in this thread, starting on page one.  Not necessarily that we pulled out, but HOW we pulled out.  Seems some of you guys can't get that concept.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

Just now, Strike said:

Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, or maybe his plan was subject to change.  Biden was counseled back in April that what happened over the weekend is exactly what would happen, and that we should leave a small force in Afghanistan to maintain stability.  He overrode those knowledgeable advisers.  Trump had drawn down our number of people in Afghanistan but, as Worms has so astutely pointed out repeatedly in this thread, had not followed through with a complete removal.  We do not know if he ever would have. 

Now, even if Trump did follow through with a complete removal, that doesn't mean he would have done it the same way Biden did, just cut and run and leave the Afghans high and dry.  And that has been my main point of contention in this thread, starting on page one.  Not necessarily that we pulled out, but HOW we pulled out.  Seems some of you guys can't get that concept.

Because if they accept your completely rational and likely scenario, they can’t yell Trump!!

[listen2me 23 1,873]

I wouldnt have pulled the 2500 on a whim.  Not before our weapons and technology was packed or destroyed.  

The dudr last night when asked if thr Taliban would now have access to this equipment the guy said he didn't have that info.

No I wouldn't of taken the 2500 out and brought a bunch of Afghans here to house.  

What does Tim not understand about my posts?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Sigh. No one has an issue, save some people still buying the neo-con propaganda, with getting out. It’s how we got out that’s the problem. It’s easy enough to see, yet you refuse. You never will. 

We lost. We were cutting and running any way you look at it. There’s no scenario in which it was going to look great

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Had 20 years to prepare and execute leaving in the best way possible.  And Joe decided on a whim to just get up and leave then go back in.  Seems spastic and not thought out what so ever.  

Why do we have to bring over Afghan soilders who weren't willing to defend their country?  Is there a good reason as to why that is a must?

[Strike 5,574]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

We lost. We were cutting and running any way you look at it. There’s no scenario in which it was going to look great

And another red herring.  No one is saying the only way we could get out of there would "look great."  But it certainly could have been done much better, with less loss of life, than how Biden did it.  That isn't even really up for debate.  When even the left leaning, Biden excuse making, media is taking him to task you know he focked up.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

Kamala said she was a key part in getting troops out of there a while back.

Now she leaves Biden out there confused and by himself.

Telling

[Hardcore troubadour 15,506]

6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

We lost. We were cutting and running any way you look at it. There’s no scenario in which it was going to look great

Well, not to over simplify,  but we could have gotten our people out first, and destroyed the weapons. So no, it wasn’t the only way. It was the short sighted, stupid way. Wanted it done by Sept 11. He said so. 

[listen2me 23 1,873]

What happened to our military and intelligence? Seems like they are losing their edge by the day.

That or Joe just went against them, like what has been rumored.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

This is why you shouldn’t elect a cvm dumpster to congress. They have their place  But not as putative lawmakers

Could not agree more. AOC, Pelosi, Waters, and Jackson Lee have no business in Congress, nor does Harris anywhere near the white house. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

32 minutes ago, Strike said:

And another red herring.  No one is saying the only way we could get out of there would "look great."  But it certainly could have been done much better, with less loss of life, than how Biden did it.  That isn't even really up for debate.  When even the left leaning, Biden excuse making, media is taking him to task you know he focked up.

Meh, what do you mean “done much better, with less loss of life”? I don’t believe US personnel have  died, right? Whatever happened to the Afghanis was unfortunately going to happen regardless h when we left. It makes me sick thinking about how there will be brutal retaliation against many there and women and girls will be subjugated again and god knows what else those Taliban creeps are gonna do, but there’s just no way of avoiding that given that we were leaving regardless  

[IGotWorms 4,058]

22 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Could not agree more. AOC, Pelosi, Waters, and Jackson Lee have no business in Congress, nor does Harris anywhere near the white house. 

Although Waters is definitely dumb and maybe others as well, I think Harris is probably the only one that qualifies as a cvm dumpster, and really she’s more like a retired cvm dumpster

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Although Waters is definitely dumb and maybe others as well, I think Harris is probably the only one that qualifies as a cvm dumpster, and really she’s more like a retired cvm dumpster

Oh I'm sure Pelosi took many a load to get ahead in her day.

If AOC isn't one, she should be, as it her only useful function.

The others are probably to heinous to even be a cvm dumpster. 

[Strike 5,574]

5 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Meh, what do you mean “done much better, with less loss of life”? I don’t believe US personnel have  died, right? Whatever happened to the Afghanis was unfortunately going to happen regardless h when we left. It makes me sick thinking about how there will be brutal retaliation against many there and women and girls will be subjugated again and god knows what else those Taliban creeps are gonna do, but there’s just no way of avoiding that given that we were leaving regardless  

One of your dumber posts, but what's new?  Low hanging fruit - All those people who died clinging to a plane would be alive today if Biden hadn't focked this up so bad.  We had control of the airport and gave it up.  If we'd done our job the airport doesn't get rushed by people trying to GTFO of Biden's clusterfock and those people are alive today. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Just now, Strike said:

One of your dumber posts, but what's new?  Low hanging fruit - All those people who died clinging to a plane would be alive today if Biden hadn't focked this up so bad.  We had control of the airport and gave it up.  If we'd done our job the airport doesn't get rushed by people trying to GTFO of Biden's clusterfock and those people are alive today. 

So a handful of afghanis? You honestly think there was a scenario where we leave without a single person of any nationality dying? That’s insane

[Strike 5,574]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

So a handful of afghanis? You honestly think there was a scenario where we leave without a single person of any nationality dying? That’s insane

No, not a handful.  I could go on and on.  I gave you one example.  Can you refute it or do you concede those people would be alive? 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

No, not a handful.  I could go on and on.  I gave you one example.  Can you refute it or do you concede those people would be alive? 

I mean if that’s all you got, wow. Exceedingly weak. No I don’t concede that. There’s definitely a universe where that was an absolute bloodbath WITH loss of US lives as well.

[Strike 5,574]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I mean if that’s all you got, wow. Exceedingly weak. No I don’t concede that. There’s definitely a universe where that was an absolute bloodbath WITH loss of US lives as well.

LOL.  Figured.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

No, not a handful.  I could go on and on.  I gave you one example.  Can you refute it or do you concede those people would be alive? 

Who gives a rat's fock?

[IGotWorms 4,058]

2 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Who gives a rat's fock?

Strike now weeps for three dead Afghanis Because he thinks it hurts Biden