Afghanistan

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

3 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Strike now weeps for three dead Afghanis Because he thinks it hurts Biden

They climbed on a focking jet plane. One tied himself to the focking wheel.

That is the very definition of play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

If you wanna weep for some dead afghans, I'm sure you can find some we bombed accidentally. But these guys ain't it. 

[Strike 4,046]

6 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Who gives a rat's fock?

I give a fock.  I'm sorry people like you, Worms, and Timmy don't give a sh*t about anyone but yourselves but I do.  I have compassion for the senseless loss of life and rights, in any country.  Sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.  Acting like this is one of those times is callous and simply a way to deflect from a completely preventable disaster that our country is responsible for. 

[Hawkeye21 1,878]

3 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

They climbed on a focking jet plane. One tied himself to the focking wheel.

That is the very definition of play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

If you wanna weep for some dead afghans, I'm sure you can find some we bombed accidentally. But these guys ain't it. 

Apparently some care more about them than they do Americans just because they are overweight.  Patriotism at it's finest.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

I give a fock.  I'm sorry people like you, Worms, and Timmy don't give a sh*t about anyone but yourselves but I do.  I have compassion for the senseless loss of life and rights, in any country.  Sometimes there's nothing you can do about it.  Acting like this is one of those times is callous and simply a way to deflect from a completely preventable disaster that our country is responsible for. 

They lost their lives by their own retarded actions. Nobody else's.

And that's why I don't give a fock.

[Strike 4,046]

3 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

They lost their lives by their own retarded actions. Nobody else's.

And that's why I don't give a fock.

Good thing I was talking about a much broader issue, with just that as a single example of why Biden focked the whole thing up.  And it's still callous.  Those people may have been fleeing because they knew if they stayed the Taliban would execute them.  So they may have been focked either way, which is horrible to even think about were I in that position.  I mean, you are aware that the Taliban is now seeking retribution from anyone who helped us, right?  A lot of Afghans are going to die because of how we left. 

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

Good thing I was talking about a much broader issue, with just that as a single example of why Biden focked the whole thing up.  And it's still callous.  Those people may have been fleeing because they knew if they stayed the Taliban would execute them.  So they may have been focked either way, which is horrible to even think about were I in that position.  I mean, you are aware that the Taliban is now seeking retribution from anyone who helped us, right?  A lot of Afghans are going to die because of how we left. 

Then pick up a focking gun and fight for your home like a g0ddamn man. We've been focking giving them to you for 20 damn years, and offering to train you.

They rolled over like b!tches. B!tches get focked. That is the law of the universe.

How long would you like to babysit them? Another decade? Two more? Three?

We GAVE them freedom and democracy. Do you get how precious that is? How many countries get that opportunity? And they threw it away.

Because ultimately, at the end of the day, freedom can't be given, it must be taken and defended.

Callous? You realized they abandoned their families to God knows what to run. I have nothing but contempt for them.  

[jerryskids 5,286]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

I'm arguing the same question I asked you.   I don't see why the Taliban would try harder now than the prior 20 years to attack the US since they're getting what they want.   I get their other reasons for wanting to attack us, but I don't think that's changed in the past week, and again if anything there should be less reason since we're leaving (which the speed at which that happened wouldn't have really mattered).

The reason you don't see it is because you are viewing their behavior through a western, evolved lens.  What the Taliban ultimately "wants" is control over the people, and to maintain that control in a violent, low quality-of-life environment, you need to rally your people against the bad guys.  Which means western civilization.  What, you think that they got Afghanistan back and now they'll be all "hey cool guys, we're done here, time to become a democracy and build that new Disney theme park!" ?   

[Strike 4,046]

3 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Then pick up a focking gun and fight for your home like a g0ddamn man. We've been focking giving them to you for 20 damn years, and offering to train you.

They rolled over like b!tches. B!tches get focked. That is the law of the universe.

How long would you like to babysit them? Another decade? Two more? Three?

We GAVE them freedom and democracy. Do you get how precious that is? How many countries get that opportunity? And they threw it away.

Because ultimately, at the end of the day, freedom can't be given, it must be taken and defended. 

You sound more ignorant than Worms right now.

[TimHauck 1,848]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, or maybe his plan was subject to change.  Biden was counseled back in April that what happened over the weekend is exactly what would happen, and that we should leave a small force in Afghanistan to maintain stability.  He overrode those knowledgeable advisers.  Trump had drawn down our number of people in Afghanistan but, as Worms has so astutely pointed out repeatedly in this thread, had not followed through with a complete removal.  We do not know if he ever would have. 

Now, even if Trump did follow through with a complete removal, that doesn't mean he would have done it the same way Biden did, just cut and run and leave the Afghans high and dry.  And that has been my main point of contention in this thread, starting on page one.  Not necessarily that we pulled out, but HOW we pulled out.  Seems some of you guys can't get that concept.

I think your first and second paragraphs contradict each other though.   Your first paragraph is saying his advisers didn't think we should have taken everyone out.   Meanwhile, HT is claiming "no one" had a problem with taking everyone out.   

To the second paragraph, I'm not a foreign policy or military expert, and I'm not saying I agree with this, but I've seen the argument made that if we gave the Afghan National Army too much notice for when everyone was leaving, that could have created more panic.   In addition, there could have been concern that there were Taliban within their army.   I do agree though with HT that we could have destroyed weapons either on our way out or after we were out .

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

You sound more ignorant than Worms right now.

Fock those guys. They abandoned their wives and children to flee. I don't weep for them, I scorn them. 

[Strike 4,046]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I think your first and second paragraphs contradict each other though.   Your first paragraph is saying his advisers didn't think we should have taken everyone out.   Meanwhile, HT is claiming "no one" had a problem with taking everyone out.   

To the second paragraph, I'm not a foreign policy or military expert, and I'm not saying I agree with this, but I've seen the argument made that if we gave the Afghan National Army too much notice for when everyone was leaving, that could have created more panic.   In addition, there could have been concern that there were Taliban within their army.   I do agree though with HT that we could have destroyed weapons either on our way out or after we were out .

How is what HT thinks relevant to a discussion between you and I?  And nothing in my post contradicts anything else in it.

[TimHauck 1,848]

19 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

The reason you don't see it is because you are viewing their behavior through a western, evolved lens.  What the Taliban ultimately "wants" is control over the people, and to maintain that control in a violent, low quality-of-life environment, you need to rally your people against the bad guys.  Which means western civilization.  What, you think that they got Afghanistan back and now they'll be all "hey cool guys, we're done here, time to become a democracy and build that new Disney theme park!" ?   

This seems like an argument for that we should have stayed there then?

[TimHauck 1,848]

14 minutes ago, Strike said:

How is what HT thinks relevant to a discussion between you and I?  And nothing in my post contradicts anything else in it.

You've reiterated (including in that second paragraph) that it wasn't getting out that was the issue, it was how we got out.  Which I'd agree with.

But in your first paragraph you're implying that maybe we shouldn't have actually gotten out.  Well that's what Biden's "knowledgeable advisers" said at least.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,831]

25 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I think your first and second paragraphs contradict each other though.   Your first paragraph is saying his advisers didn't think we should have taken everyone out.   Meanwhile, HT is claiming "no one" had a problem with taking everyone out.   

To the second paragraph, I'm not a foreign policy or military expert, and I'm not saying I agree with this, but I've seen the argument made that if we gave the Afghan National Army too much notice for when everyone was leaving, that could have created more panic.   In addition, there could have been concern that there were Taliban within their army.   I do agree though with HT that we could have destroyed weapons either on our way out or after we were out .

I didn’t say no one had a problem. Get it straight man. 

[Strike 4,046]

Just now, TimHauck said:

You've reiterated (including in that second paragraph) that it wasn't getting out that was the issue, it was how we got out.  Which I'd agree with.

But in your first paragraph you're implying that maybe we shouldn't have actually gotten out.  Well that's what Biden's "knowledgeable advisers" said at least.

Yeah, because the issue isn't cut and dry.  That doesn't make the post contradictory.  It just leaves open the potential for discussing other options and nuance. 

[Strike 4,046]

There are somewhere between 10 and 40 THOUSAND Americans still stuck in Afghanistan.  Let's hope they all get out safely. 

[TimHauck 1,848]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I didn’t say no one had a problem. Get it straight man. 

Just those "still buying the neo-con propaganda"

 

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Sigh. No one has an issue, save some people still buying the neo-con propaganda, with getting out. It’s how we got out that’s the problem. It’s easy enough to see, yet you refuse. You never will. 

 

[TimHauck 1,848]

7 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yeah, because the issue isn't cut and dry.  That doesn't make the post contradictory.  It just leaves open the potential for discussing other options and nuance. 

Your first post in this thread seemed pretty cut and dry to me...

 

On 8/15/2021 at 12:16 PM, Strike said:

I've said since the day we invaded the place that we should get in, do our business, and GTFO.   Said the same thing about Iraq.  We don't need to be in the business of "nation building."  If you fock with us we will take you out and devastate your country.  Then we will leave and let you pick up the pieces.  That's how it should be.

That said, Biden focked up big time in the implementation of leaving.  He literally left Bagram airfield in the middle of the night without even doing the Afghan's the courtesy of telling them he was leaving:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-06/us-left-bagram-airfield-at-night-didnt-tell-new-commander/100272238

IMO this destroyed the morale of the fighter's we've been training for the last 20 years.  Maybe they would have folded just as easily had we not slipped away in the night, but it's easy to understand people questioning fighting for a cause when their biggest "ally" just bailed on them without even telling them. 

And as much as I think we should have just gotten in and out, I feel horrible for all the vulnerable people who are going to die due to the Biden administration's incompetence on this issue.  A lot of girls, women, and even Afghan's who worked with us have already been and are going to continue to be brutally raped and/or murdered.  That blood is on Biden's hands.  Not that he cares.  He's on vacation.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,831]

9 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Just those "still buying the neo-con propaganda"

 

 

Yeah. That’s not no one. The neocons are still a factor. Your HTDS is showing again. 

[TheNewGirl 1,048]

48 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Then pick up a focking gun and fight for your home like a g0ddamn man. We've been focking giving them to you for 20 damn years, and offering to train you.

They rolled over like b!tches. B!tches get focked. That is the law of the universe.

How long would you like to babysit them? Another decade? Two more? Three?

We GAVE them freedom and democracy. Do you get how precious that is? How many countries get that opportunity? And they threw it away.

Because ultimately, at the end of the day, freedom can't be given, it must be taken and defended.

Callous? You realized they abandoned their families to God knows what to run. I have nothing but contempt for them.  

I wonder if this same sentiment will be echoed when the war starts here...the more we are "forced" to comply and show papers, etc. 

 

[Strike 4,046]

12 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Your first post in this thread seemed pretty cut and dry to me...

 

 

Yeah, that's from a couple days ago.  A lot has changed and a lot more info has come out since then.  I'm still fine with that take, but I'm open to the idea that we could have left 2500 people in Afghanistan if it would have kept the region stable.  Hell, we've still got people in Japan from WWII.  See, unlike Biden, I can evolve my thought process when given new knowledge. 

[jerryskids 5,286]

21 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

This seems like an argument for that we should have stayed there then?

Not really.  I personally espouse the more "Jacksonian" approach that @Masshole mentioned earlier.

That being said I've never had a strong feeling one way or the other about our presence there.  Decades ago if you recall, Iraq was Bush's folly, and smart people thought we should be invading Afghanistan instead.  That's where the real terrorist action was we were told.  And to an extent they were correct.  Fast forward to today, after four Trump years of relative peace I couldn't have told you the extent of our presence there, which it seems was relatively low-key at this point.

So was it smarter to pull completely out instead of maintaining a small presence?  Hard for me to say.

[TimHauck 1,848]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

Yeah, that's from a couple days ago.  A lot has changed and a lot more info has come out since then.  I'm still fine with that take, but I'm open to the idea that we could have left 2500 people in Afghanistan if it would have kept the region stable.  Hell, we've still got people in Japan from WWII.  See, unlike Biden, I can evolve my thought process when given new knowledge. 

Fair enough.  There's a covid comparison in your last sentence but I won't make it for fear of Reality trolling me. 

[Strike 4,046]

Just now, TimHauck said:

Fair enough.  There's a covid comparison in your last sentence but I won't make it for fear of Reality trolling me. 

Maybe you should not make it simply for the reason that it has nothing to focking do with Afghanistan and don't be so concerned about your little sissy slap fights.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

26 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

I wonder if this same sentiment will be echoed when the war starts here...the more we are "forced" to comply and show papers, etc. 

 

I certainly don't claim to be any badass or anything. Quite the contrary. But I can tell you two things for certain... if I were to flee, it's with my wife and family or not at all, and while they would most certainly get to my loved ones, they'll step over a pile of brass and the corpses of all the men in my family to do it. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

13 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Fair enough.  There's a covid comparison in your last sentence but I won't make it for fear of Reality trolling me. 

Love it when someone posts a thousand times a day on this site and then calls someone a troll when they respond to the really bad info being spread by all those thousand posts.

[TimHauck 1,848]

3 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Love it when someone posts a thousand times a day on this site and then calls someone a troll when they respond to the really bad info being spread by all those thousand posts.

lol

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

lol

Correct. It is funny. Like the the taste of bad fish.

[KSB2424 3,086]

Democrat logic

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cartoons-slideshow

[porkbutt 865]

5 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Democrat logic

 

such a joke. this would annoy me if i knew he wasn't a disgusting fat focktard just trying to stay relevant.

 

[lod001 1,241]

I hope everyone realizes why the afghan men rolled over so easily. Easier to let the Taliban take over and live their way than fight them forever and end up dead. It's not like the change is going to affect the men much at all, if any. Of course our stupid govt was probably told that and they didn't listen.

Shoulda trained the women to fight instead. They had reason to fight. 

[lod001 1,241]

9 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cartoons-slideshow

Ouch.

[TimHauck 1,848]

3 minutes ago, lod001 said:

I hope everyone realizes why the afghan men rolled over so easily. Easier to let the Taliban take over and live their way than fight them forever and end up dead. It's not like the change is going to affect the men much at all, if any. Of course our stupid govt was probably told that and they didn't listen.

Shoulda trained the women to fight instead. They had reason to fight. 

I was thinking about this as well and it's probably true.   Either they probably die fighting, or they die after they lose the fight for being against them.

Good point on the women too.

[Cdub100 3,418]

Just got a mass email from the Chief of Staff of the Army. 

He's encouraging everyone to check in on our teammates "during this tough time"

[Strike 4,046]

1 minute ago, Cdub100 said:

Just got a mass email from the Chief of Staff of the Army. 

He's encouraging everyone to check in on our teammates "during this tough time"

You should check in on the command in chief.

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

You should check in on the command in chief.

He's relaxing. Getting regular naps in.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,831]

18 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Just got a mass email from the Chief of Staff of the Army. 

He's encouraging everyone to check in on our teammates "during this tough time"

Especially the trannies.  Also, report anyone you suspect of being a white supremacist. 

[Cdub100 3,418]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Especially the trannies.  Also, report anyone you suspect of being a white supremacist. 

I'm reporting all my friends. They love to participate in terrorist and white supremacist activities such as:

Working out

Lifting weights

Questioning COVID mandates

Quoting crime statistics

Asking questions

Doing their own research

Believing they know what's best for their family

Only being attracted to biological females

Not voting Democrat.

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, Cdub100 said:

I'm reporting all my friends. They love to participate in terrorist and white supremacist activities such as:

Working out

Lifting weights

Questioning COVID mandates

Quoting crime statistics

Asking questions

Doing their own research

Believing they know what's best for their family

Only being attracted to biological females

Not voting Democrat.

I'm focked.