Ukraine - Doomsday

[Masshole 642]

13 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Across every other issue I love Masshole, but that sure seems to encapsulate what he's saying and I can't see it his way. 

 

Or maybe the Ukrainians make the cost of invasion too high for Russia to bear, the fockers leave, they get their country back, and Vladdy learns not to fock with other countries anymore. 

You want to talk about being a cold hearted realist on the international stage ... Putin is getting his army shredded with not one single NATO life being put in danger. The Ukranians are providing all the bravery and manpower. The alternative is to leave them unarmed and defenseless. Maybe they aren't interested in being occupied/conquered by Russia, maybe they remember grandma's stories of forced starvation the last time the Russians were in Ukraine and don't want to tempt fate, they want to be in control of their own destiny.

Volti - I am surprised to see you using this logical fallacy     That it's a binary choice.     I've never once said "do nothing, don't even give them 1 bullet".     But I see people banging the drums to give them as many stingers, javelins, {whatever other cool named missile the US has}, etc. and I start getting a really unsettling feeling about that and where this and us are headed.    I am just saying that we need to be really, really careful about where we take this and try to understand the down-stream ramifications of what were doing.    And to try and balance that with some humility and recognition of our role  in precipitating this conflict.     We fooled and fuk'd around in Russia's back yard for years, but especially so in the last 5-10 yrs in Ukraine.   

[TimHauck 2,989]

47 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

Tim, I wish you'd take your bullshit back to the Covid thread.

I didn't bring it up in this thread.

[Masshole 642]

13 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Um... Vietnam got arms from other countries and successfully kicked the invading country out. That's exactly the outcome we're looking for in Ukraine by providing them with arms.

It took 10 yrs and cost over a million lives.   More if you count the French in Indochina.   All basically because we thought that restoring the French post-WW2 meant helping them reclaim their colonies.     Which is also analogous to our present situation in that was a profoundly dumb position to take in that international arena.    The French basically got us to back their stupid play and then handed us the sh!tpile to deal with when they couldn't handle it.      

Remember what my point/analogy was - the Russians and Chinese were arming the Vietnamese not out some grand kinship/affinity for them (the Chinese were actually enemies of Vietnamese before us and the French fuk'd that up) but because they wanted to stop US hegemony (i.e. "set us back 30 yrs").     Did they get that?     Yes Viet Nam achieved their freedom but at an almost unimaginable cost.    Is that what we are looking for in Ukraine?   

[Masshole 642]

13 hours ago, Voltaire said:

OK then, Afghanistan was right on the USSR's border. President Regan armed them up and they successfully booted out the Soviets.

Ummm, yah - about that:    How'd that work out for us in the long run?   

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

4 minutes ago, Masshole said:

It took 10 yrs and cost over a million lives.   More if you count the French in Indochina.   All basically because we thought that restoring the French post-WW2 meant helping them reclaim their colonies.     Which is also analogous to our present situation in that was a profoundly dumb position to take in that international arena.    The French basically got us to back their stupid play and then handed us the sh!tpile to deal with when they couldn't handle it.      

Remember what my point/analogy was - the Russians and Chinese were arming the Vietnamese not out some grand kinship/affinity for them (the Chinese were actually enemies of Vietnamese before us and the French fuk'd that up) but because they wanted to stop US hegemony.     Did they get that?     Yes Viet Nam achieved their freedom but at an almost unimaginable cost.    Is that what we are looking for in Ukraine?   

I only see a few similarities between Vietnam and Ukraine. 

The Russians have shown what they do when they occupy a section of Ukraine, so we're looking at a fight-or-die situation. 

South Vietnam was focked up in myriad ways, including a wildly corrupt government and a military that really didn't want to fight.

Ukrainians want freedom from oppression and are willing to fight to the last bullet for it. Read a story somewhere this morning that Russia is helpless to stop the wave after wave of weapons and supplies pouring into Ukraine, thanks in no small part to an effective air-defense system that makes it too risky for Russian jets to hunt for the supply trucks, which are hard to pick out because they look like any other truck. 

It's not worth the risk to them to go blow up a truck that might be carrying diapers or butt plugs for the Ukers.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,520]

So how long do we stay involved? What gets us to the end? 

[vomit 502]

RUSSIAN troops have been given PERMISSION by their partners to rape Ukrainian women, according to a disturbing intercepted phone call to the front line.

In the shocking clip, a Russian wife is heard telling her soldier husband that he is allowed to rape women in Ukraine, as long as he "uses protection" and doesn't tell her about it when he gets home.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/5114304/russian-wife-allows-husband-rape-ukrainian-women/

I thought Russians were disgusted by the lack of morality in the West?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

rusty is to this thread as botcuck is to covid.  Searching constantly for any shred of anything to support whatever the liberal administration thinks. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,520]

The other day one of the libtards, pretty sure it was Worms, was saying that it’s good to be a super power, blah blah blah. I was wondering where is this coming from, on the left? Sure enough, one of the prominent neocons , Victoria Nulands husband Robert Kagan, wrote a piece in Foreign Affairs titled “The Price of Hegemony “ spouting that same garbage. And then Glenn Greenwald explained what is going on with libtards and neo cons being in lockstep all of a sudden. If you guessed Trump! You win.  The neocons went so hard after Trump that an alliance was formed with the left. Besides the fact that neocons are liberals anyway and don’t really care what happens in America, it’s not like they are so far apart. We are a long, weird way from the Bush years. It takes a few days, but Libtards start repeating this crap from the neocons not long after they publish it. 

[IGotWorms 4,060]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So how long do we stay involved? What gets us to the end? 

Well I hope this isn’t the outcome for the good of the Ukrainian people, but if we spend years bleeding Russia dry through their ill-advised decision to invade, that’s really a pretty good scenario for the US. Doesn’t cost us much while Russia suffers huge losses. But so would the Ukrainians, so I hope that is not the outcome. Best outcome would be Putin finds a way to save face and go home

[Bert 1,128]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

if we spend years bleeding Russia dry through their ill-advised decision to invade, that’s really a pretty good scenario for the US. Doesn’t cost us much while Russia suffers huge losses. 

That won't work unless we get China or India to stop buying Russian oil.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,520]

11 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Well I hope this isn’t the outcome for the good of the Ukrainian people, but if we spend years bleeding Russia dry through their ill-advised decision to invade, that’s really a pretty good scenario for the US. Doesn’t cost us much while Russia suffers huge losses. But so would the Ukrainians, so I hope that is not the outcome. Best outcome would be Putin finds a way to save face and go home

Years? Doesn’t cost much? Are you kidding? Never mind the possibility that Putin gets even more desperate. This sounds like a great outcome. Hey, now that you and the neo cons are on the same side, have you re-thought the Iraq war yet? 

[Gepetto 1,382]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The other day one of the libtards, pretty sure it was Worms, was saying that it’s good to be a super power, blah blah blah. I was wondering where is this coming from, on the left? Sure enough, one of the prominent neocons , Victoria Nulands husband Robert Kagan, wrote a piece in Foreign Affairs titled “The Price of Hegemony “ spouting that same garbage. And then Glenn Greenwald explained what is going on with libtards and neo cons being in lockstep all of a sudden. If you guessed Trump! You win.  The neocons went so hard after Trump that an alliance was formed with the left. Besides the fact that neocons are liberals anyway and don’t really care what happens in America, it’s not like they are so far apart. We are a long, weird way from the Bush years. It takes a few days, but Libtards start repeating this crap from the neocons not long after they publish it. 

That is the cause of this mess.

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

3 hours ago, TimmySmith said:

rusty is to this thread as botcuck is to covid.  Searching constantly for any shred of anything to support whatever the liberal administration thinks. 

Not surprising that you support this and other barbaric behavior just because Putin had your beloved Clownzo eating the peanuts out of his sh!t.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

That won't work unless we get China or India to stop buying Russian oil.

Oh it works. Worked previously with Russia in Afghanistan and, unfortunately, with the US in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. We were strong enough to survive but it was not helpful

[IGotWorms 4,060]

55 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Years? Doesn’t cost much? Are you kidding? Never mind the possibility that Putin gets even more desperate. This sounds like a great outcome. Hey, now that you and the neo cons are on the same side, have you re-thought the Iraq war yet? 

Do we have boots on the ground in the Ukraine? It’s obviously far, far different from the Iraq war scenario (and Afghanistan, for that matter).

Now it is a bit of a dangerous game against a nuclear-armed dictator. No doubt about that. But he through us in this game and simply not playing isn’t much of an option.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

9 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Not surprising that you support this and other barbaric behavior just because Putin had your beloved Clownzo eating the peanuts out of his sh!t.

Stick to the cut/paste death stories.  You're good at that and the rest of us can feel the joy you get from them.   

[Utilit99 4,099]

27 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Not surprising that you support this and other barbaric behavior just because Putin had your beloved Clownzo eating the peanuts out of his sh!t.

Putin waited for hussein, then went to town.

Then he was restrained by Trump and waited for creepy joe.

Now he's going to town on Ukraine because why? Oh yeah, because your boy is a pvssy. 

[Bert 1,128]

53 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Oh it works. Worked previously with Russia in Afghanistan and, unfortunately, with the US in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. We were strong enough to survive but it was not helpful

A very different dynamic here with India.  India has basically given a big FU to the US and Europe.  Historically, they have purchased very little oil from Russia even though they import 80-85% of their oil.  Last month India purchased 50% of the total they purchased from Russia in all of 2021.  If this continues cash will keep flowing in from China and India.  Further, China and India represent the largest portion of the global oil demand increase we will see over the next 20-30 years. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

5 minutes ago, Bert said:

A very different dynamic here with India.  India has basically given a big FU to the US and Europe.  Historically, they have purchased very little oil from Russia even though they import 80-85% of their oil.  Last month India purchased 50% of the total they purchased from Russia in all of 2021.  If this continues cash will keep flowing in from China and India.  Further, China and India represent the largest portion of the global oil demand increase we will see over the next 20-30 years. 

Interesting stuff!

[Hardcore troubadour 15,520]

Just now, Pimpadeaux said:

Interesting stuff!

It’s supply and demand! 

[Bert 1,128]

1 minute ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Interesting stuff!

The US and Europe are praying India is only doing this because Russia is offering significant discounts.  We will see.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,520]

2 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Well I hope this isn’t the outcome for the good of the Ukrainian people, but if we spend years bleeding Russia dry through their ill-advised decision to invade, that’s really a pretty good scenario for the US. Doesn’t cost us much while Russia suffers huge losses. But so would the Ukrainians, so I hope that is not the outcome. Best outcome would be Putin finds a way to save face and go home

Another 800 million announced going to Ukraine. I guess the defense contractors aren’t giving any discounts in this epic battle of good vs evil.   

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

16 minutes ago, Bert said:

The US and Europe are praying India is only doing this because Russia is offering significant discounts.  We will see.

What's keeping the United States from jacking up production and and being a big supplier to Europe? I assume Biden's crapass energy policies are playing a big role in that.

[Baker Boy 1,704]

2 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Well I hope this isn’t the outcome for the good of the Ukrainian people, but if we spend years bleeding Russia dry through their ill-advised decision to invade, that’s really a pretty good scenario for the US. Doesn’t cost us much while Russia suffers huge losses. But so would the Ukrainians, so I hope that is not the outcome. Best outcome would be Putin finds a way to save face and go home

London (CNN Business)The barrage of sanctions imposed by the West following Russia's invasionof Ukraine decimated the ruble. But one month after the tanks rolled, the currency has made a full recovery and is now trading at levels seen prior to the war.
 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/31/investing/russia-ruble-putin/index.html

 

The WH says inflation and high gas prices are Putin’s fault. I would say that is a high price to pay.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

13 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Another 800 million announced going to Ukraine. I guess the defense contractors aren’t giving any discounts in this epic battle of good vs evil.   

More money going to destroy Ukraine and it's people, it's a rusty wet dream. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

London (CNN Business)The barrage of sanctions imposed by the West following Russia's invasionof Ukraine decimated the ruble. But one month after the tanks rolled, the currency has made a full recovery and is now trading at levels seen prior to the war.
 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/31/investing/russia-ruble-putin/index.html

 

The WH says inflation and high gas prices are Putin’s fault. I would say that is a high price to pay.

The White House is lying. 

[Bert 1,128]

13 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

What's keeping the United States from jacking up production and and being a big supplier to Europe? I assume Biden's crapass energy policies are playing a big role in that.

Pretty much. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Bert said:

Pretty much. 

Are you East Indian? Or are you non Indian living in India?

[Bert 1,128]

Just now, Utilit99 said:

Are you East Indian? Or are you non Indian living in India?

WTF?  Neither.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Bert said:

WTF?  Neither.  

Quote

A very different dynamic here with India.  India has basically given a big FU to the US and Europe.  Historically, they have purchased very little oil from Russia even though they import 80-85% of their oil.  Last month India purchased 50% of the total they purchased from Russia in all of 2021.  If this continues cash will keep flowing in from China and India.  Further, China and India represent the largest portion of the global oil demand increase we will see over the next 20-30 years. 

Why didn't you say "A very different dynamic with India"? You said "here".

[Bert 1,128]

Just now, Utilit99 said:

Abbreviated Redneck.  The full statement would have been, A very different dynamic with this here sitcheeation with India.

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

[Utilit99 4,099]

11 minutes ago, Bert said:

Abbreviated Redneck.  The full statement would have been, A very different dynamic with this here sitcheeation with India.

You aren't Indian? You are an abbreviated redneck? What the hell is that?

[Bert 1,128]

18 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

You aren't Indian? You are an abbreviated redneck? What the hell is that?

"The situation here with India" is different than "The situation here in India"

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, Bert said:

"The situation here with India" is different than "The situation here in India"

 

You said HERE.

But I don't care anymore. 

[fandandy 3,313]

https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/INTERACTIVE-Russias-biggest-arms-buyers-1.png?w=770&resize=770%2C770

[fandandy 3,313]

In your brain, you should be able to choose sides based on that graphic.  

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

2 hours ago, Baker Boy said:

London (CNN Business)The barrage of sanctions imposed by the West following Russia's invasionof Ukraine decimated the ruble. But one month after the tanks rolled, the currency has made a full recovery and is now trading at levels seen prior to the war.
 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/31/investing/russia-ruble-putin/index.html

 

The WH says inflation and high gas prices are Putin’s fault. I would say that is a high price to pay.

Odd that you only read the parts that validate your perspective and politics. You can't dismiss this:

Quote

These measures have allowed Moscow to artificially manufacture demand for the ruble. The problem facing policymakers is that with Russia's economy in tatters, nobody actually wants to buy the currency of their own accord. When the restrictions are lifted, demand for the ruble will drop, and its value will slide — perhaps dramatically.

Quote

With that in mind, the rebound of the ruble and stock market moves shouldn't be taken as a signal that Russia's economy is on the mend. The country is facing its deepest recession since the 1990s, and the economy will shrink by a fifth this year, according to a recent forecast from S&P Global Market Intelligence.

 

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

"The situation here with India" is different than "The situation here in India"

 

You're debating with a rube who is about as sharp as a bag of used condoms.