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Ray_T

Deebo-wants out of San Fran

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https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/deebo-samuel-trade-rumors-jets-chiefs-49ers/msv0mmmaexw7tvkzarsfqme2

This story has been around for a little while ago. apparently Deebo asked for a trade a little over a week ago.

my understanding is that this is not about the money.

Does anyone know much about this?   Lets discuss.

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If he's that disgruntled with the 49ers then I say get him outta there. Don't want him to affect.the locker room as there are plenty of guys who do want to be there. Funny we.never heard anything from him when he was puttin' up good numbers last year. Like to know where and why it went south. Hate to lose his talent but you pick up and go on. Get as.much for him as you can.

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I would agree.

My understanding is that he doesnt like being used as a RB as it would likely shorten his career.   I guess that part can be fixed.

there may or may not be other issues there too.

but if its just a matter of usage, I guess the team has to make a decision regarding that.    It does feel like a whole lot of drama when you consider he could have just went to the coach and said, I dont wanna be used in this way.

maybe its a case where the coach isnt listening. (wouldnt surprise me if that is the case)

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

my understanding is that this is not about the money.

It's always about the money and when they say it's not about the money, that's when you really know it's about the money.

It used to be players would gripe and want out because they were not getting enough touches or playing time.  Deebo probably wants elite wide receiver money (already way more than the salary scale for RBs) with reduced workload.  The 49ers should play hardball and re-classify him as an RB and franchise him next year.

 

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If not the money I’d guess he doesn’t want to be an RB and shorten his career as well as have lingering issues after retirement. 
 

 

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2019 1/2 point ppr Samuel avg 10 points per game. 

2020 1/2 point ppr Samuel avg 9 points per game.  

2021 1/2 point ppr Samuel avg 18 points per game.  

Its all about the money.  

Yawn.  

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14 hours ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

If not the money I’d guess he doesn’t want to be an RB and shorten his career as well as have lingering issues after retirement. 
 

 

He could have concerns about being a rb but you can get injured just playing. It is.his production as a rb/wr that will get him the money he wants. Fon't think any team is gonna pay him big money to just be a receiver. So he's kinda in a pickle.

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He’s not in a pickle , he’s going to get paid for last seasons production, biggest concern I would have , is he truly worth it, or was last season his best he’ll ever have.  

 

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Of course it’s about money. He saw what Devante, Tyreke etc got and he ain’t finishing out his rookie deal. That simple.

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21 hours ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

If not the money I’d guess he doesn’t want to be an RB and shorten his career as well as have lingering issues after retirement. 
 

 

I think this is the major issue from what I have read.   that said, the press often spins things or gets things wrong, so who knows.

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28 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Of course it’s about money. He saw what Devante, Tyreke etc got and he ain’t finishing out his rookie deal. That simple.

this is where your coach and GM earn their money.   your talent evaluators need to figure out if he is the real deal or if hes just the beneficiary of the system the way it was setup and/or the situation that presented itself last season.    

from my perspective I'm a bit concerned because the #2 WR Aiyuk was in the doghouse for much of the year.   so as a player he may well have had more usage than hed have in a normal year.   Now that Aiyuk is back, does Deebo get a few less looks?   it is certainly possible.

at the start of the year, the offense basically ran through him.   If San Fran drafts or develops another player does he get even less touches?

I suppose if they trade him now, they may get a kings ransom for him.   but the teams talent evaluators need to figure out whether they should pay him or trade him.    That is the bottom line.  Is he going to be worth the money.   important decision because hes gonna cost a pile of cash.

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2 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

this is where your coach and GM earn their money.   your talent evaluators need to figure out if he is the real deal or if hes just the beneficiary of the system the way it was setup and/or the situation that presented itself last season.    

from my perspective I'm a bit concerned because the #2 WR Aiyuk was in the doghouse for much of the year.   so as a player he may well have had more usage than hed have in a normal year.   Now that Aiyuk is back, does Deebo get a few less looks?   it is certainly possible.

at the start of the year, the offense basically ran through him.   If San Fran drafts or develops another player does he get even less touches?

I suppose if they trade him now, they may get a kings ransom for him.   but the teams talent evaluators need to figure out whether they should pay him or trade him.    That is the bottom line.  Is he going to be worth the money.   important decision because hes gonna cost a pile of cash.

He’s the real deal.

I think it’s stupid to spend that much $ on a WR regardless, though.

That said, the game has changed and I may be living in the past.

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another point worth mentioning....  he put up these huge numbers because he had a good connection with Jimmy G.   But Jimmy G may be on the way out.

as a WR maybe this is the reason he wants to go.   No faith in the replacement QB   If I had him in dynasty and someone made a huge offer, I'd strongly consider it.  I'm not sure he can duplicate what he had with Jimmy G

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I really don’t think he wants to go, I think he’s smart and trying to earn a bigger pay check based on his stud season. 

I think he’s a very good player, but can he handle all that work might be his own concern also, might as well get paid before he goes back to avg 10 points per game, I’m not sold that he’ll avg 15 plus points 1/2 point ppr ever again.  Maybe. 

 

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On 4/20/2022 at 2:37 PM, Ray_T said:

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/deebo-samuel-trade-rumors-jets-chiefs-49ers/msv0mmmaexw7tvkzarsfqme2

This story has been around for a little while ago. apparently Deebo asked for a trade a little over a week ago.

my understanding is that this is not about the money.

Does anyone know much about this?   Lets discuss.

I heard an interview on NFL radio with Garoppolo. They gave the obligatory ask about Samuel but of course he wouldn't say anything. Even when Charlie Weiss asked him if he was surprised when he heard the news he wouldn't really expand on that. So they left it alone. The guys on NFL radio were all there and done that so they know what's up. 

Mostly they ended up talking about Garoppolo's injury since he didn't even want to talk about his situation in SF. 

So, it's all speculation unless you are Samuel himself. :dunno:

I think it was Weiss who made a good point later, saying that maybe SF is looking forward to trading him to recoup some of all of the picks they gave up to get Lance. Again, :dunno:

Bob Papa and Charlie Weiss host a show daily on that station. Great show. 

 

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its hard to say.

but If I were in Deebo's shoes, I wouldnt be worried about the money.   The numbers put up this last year guarantees the money will be there.

I'd be worried about:

1) will I be productive in the future situation with this team?

2) can we win a championship?

if he feels he has a special connection with Jimmy G, he may not wanna move on to Trey Lance.   Especially if hes seen how he does with Lance at QB during practice.  he likely has a better idea of whether this will work than any of us.

I cannot say this is for sure the issue.  but its certainly possible.

even from the money perspective......25+ mil per  year sounds nice but if the new QB isnt good enough to make you a 1000 yard receiver, that contract will be bought out soon enough and you wont be able to get another like it.

so if he isnt on board with the direction the team is going, he should be asking for a trade.   and the team should accomodate him if they are insisting on going the direction they are going.   As a team you want everyone pulling in the same direction.  keeping a malcontent is almost never a good thing.

 

That said, it is possible this is about money.  I dont know the guy well enough to make that judgement.  I dont know what motovates him.   but most athletes once they become one of the best in the game start being concerned with their legacy and career stats and such.    also career longevity.   so maybe it is the use as a RB.   RB's have shorter careers, so using him in this way likely shortens the career.  

hard to say for sure.    If he starts to speak out about his situation I'd be in a better position to figure that out but he is (smartly) staying reasonably quiet.

but If I owned him in dynasty, I'd consider selling if a great offer came up because there are a lot of ways this path can potentially turn bad.  Possibly even ugly.

I actually ran a test on fftoday (and a couple other publication's) projections and when a change of QB or change of offense takes place for a player, that players score becomes a lot less predictable.    While the projection  is generally considered reasonable (the midpoint of all possible outcomes) the standard deviation of that is usually a lot higher when the WR is catching balls from a different QB than he has in the past.

I dont personally forsee his stats getting better under Lance but the risk goes up just by way of having a different starting QB.

 

 

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Dallas wouldn't be a bad place. They probably won't be lining him up at RB too often and they need someone to fill in for Amari Cooper...

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4 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Dallas wouldn't be a bad place. They probably won't be lining him up at RB too often and they need someone to fill in for Amari Cooper...

if trading him the smart bet is that they send  him to the AFC where he wont have a chance to hurt them.   If San Fran faces Dallas come playoff time the potential blowback on that can be bad.

 

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Lol oh my soul, his concern is the money, one hit and he could be done, he picked the right season to have had what could turn out to be his career season in 2021.  

 

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

if trading him the smart bet is that they send  him to the AFC where he wont have a chance to hurt them.   If San Fran faces Dallas come playoff time the potential blowback on that can be bad.

 

Unless the Niners can get what they want in return. 

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35 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Unless the Niners can get what they want in return. 

I wasnt aware there was an asking price yet.

what is it they are wanting again?

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2 hours ago, Ray_T said:

if trading him the smart bet is that they send  him to the AFC where he wont have a chance to hurt them.   If San Fran faces Dallas come playoff time the potential blowback on that can be bad.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I wasnt aware there was an asking price yet.

what is it they are wanting again?

Don’t know, but they will if they indeed trade him, and if the Cowboys give them their asking price,that where he’ll go.  

I still don’t think he will be traded, I think he’s simply cashing in on a great season he had in 2021 smart move.  

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32 minutes ago, weepaws said:

 

Don’t know, but they will if they indeed trade him, and if the Cowboys give them their asking price,that where he’ll go.  

I still don’t think he will be traded, I think he’s simply cashing in on a great season he had in 2021 smart move.  

well, the way I see it.... you have a market for a player.

San Fran is a playoff team, so they don't wanna trade within the division.  Thats a strict no no. 

trading within the conference to another playoff team?   I'd suggest the asking price goes up beyond market value because the deal likely hinders their own chances to beat out Dallas (assuming they meet in the playoffs).  For that to happen the deal needs 100% to their advantage and way more than market value for the guy.   

so the return would need to be borderline insane for them to make that deal.

personally, if I were the GM I'd give out of conference people first shot at it, and I'd use someone like Dallas to try to drive the price up if they are not playing ball.

 

Not saying thats how it will go down.   but if I were the GM thats the way I would work it.

that said, I've seen far crazier things happen.  and there seems to be no price too high once Jerry Jones decides he wants something.... so it could happen.

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Well, I don't think Deebo has a no trade clause so if the 49ers.were to trade him they.could possibly be pricks about it and send him to a team 

Here's a scenario. The 9ers and Deebo work out a dealt pay him 25 mil a year but he wants to the ball less. Lance starts and has.scripted runs reducing the wear on Deebo. Samuel's gets frustrated and says he 's not gettin the ball. Sounds like it could happen. Nit picking whiny little ball players.

 

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Why would one pay a player for his performance, and that player doesn’t want to get the ball to perform. Lol I would trade him. 

He’s had one very good season, and now doesn’t want the ball, so pay me to stand there while someone else performs with the ball. 

I think Samuel is just another wr deva.  

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On 4/21/2022 at 2:01 PM, Ray_T said:

another point worth mentioning....  he put up these huge numbers because he had a good connection with Jimmy G.   But Jimmy G may be on the way out.

as a WR maybe this is the reason he wants to go.   No faith in the replacement QB   If I had him in dynasty and someone made a huge offer, I'd strongly consider it.  I'm not sure he can duplicate what he had with Jimmy G

If that happens, a lot of people need to lose their jobs.

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2 hours ago, weepaws said:

Why would one pay a player for his performance, and that player doesn’t want to get the ball to perform. Lol I would trade him. 

He’s had one very good season, and now doesn’t want the ball, so pay me to stand there while someone else performs with the ball. 

I think Samuel is just another wr deva.  

It’s possible he’s willing to do all of the same stuff, provided he gets paid. That would be rational. Right now he’s thinking he has a huge risk of getting injured or worn down before he’s even able to cash in on a single huge payday. Give him that payday and maybe the attitude changes.

But I wouldn’t do it. Too risky, IMO

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I would agree that he wants to get paid for his outstanding 2021 season, but if he’s complaining about getting the ball to much at the rb slot, I would be weary of signing him to a big contract, been to many times that money doesn’t improve production, just someone’s bank account.  

Imo. 

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Deal done, good for him, he deserved it. 3 year extension 58 guaranteed. 26'ish per year.

Now, let's get to work.

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I can’t believe the amount of money these players are making, no one is worth that much.  Shame

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For that kind of money he better be happy to do whatever they ask him to do and not complain.  He’s not worth that much just as a WR.

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According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Samuel can earn $650,000 for each year that he has 380 or more rushing yards. Samuel can also earn a one-time incentive bonus of $150,000 if he scores three rushing touchdowns in any one year.

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So let’s see if that fires him up to take the pounding.  

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On 8/1/2022 at 3:35 AM, JagFan said:

For that kind of money he better be happy to do whatever they ask him to do and not complain.  He’s not worth that much just as a WR.

did you catch his numbers for the first half of the season, before they started using him as a rb? I am not sure if he will replicate them, or  at that pace...nor do i know how lance will impact deebo's performance, but he is capable.

 

1 9/12/2021 1 1 25.24 SFO @ DET W 41-33 * 12 9 189 21 1
2 9/19/2021 2 2 25.247 SFO @ PHI W 17-11 * 8 6 93 15.5 0
3 9/26/2021 3 3 25.254 SFO   GNB L 28-30 * 10 5 52 10.4 0
4 10/3/2021 4 4 25.261 SFO   SEA L 21-28 * 13 8 156 19.5 2
5 10/10/2021 5 5 25.268 SFO @ ARI L 10-17 * 9 3 58 19.33 0
6 10/24/2021 6 7 25.282 SFO   IND L 18-30 * 11 7 100 14.29 1
7 10/31/2021 7 8 25.289 SFO @ CHI W 33-22 * 9 6 171 28.5 0
8 11/7/2021 8 9 25.296 SFO   ARI L 17-31 * 9 5 63 12.6 0
9 11/15/2021 9 10 25.304 SFO   LAR W 31-10 * 5 5 97 19.4 1

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On 8/2/2022 at 9:07 AM, Bier Meister said:

did you catch his numbers for the first half of the season, before they started using him as a rb? I am not sure if he will replicate them, or  at that pace...nor do i know how lance will impact deebo's performance, but he is capable.

well, I saw lance play one of the games while Jimmy G was hurt.

he looked like Tim Teebow out there.   and not in a good way.

Maybe I caught him on a bad day but he didnt pass the eye test for me.    so potential or not, hes not a guy I am willing to overpay for.   and right now at his ADP he looks like its an overpay based on what I saw.

I fully expect with some coaching  he will be better this year.  but the bar was pretty low based on what I saw.

obviously they are letting Jimmy G seek out his own trade, so they feel good about going with Lance so I'm guessing they have seen things I have not.   After all, they see him every day.  I saw him on a couple game days.

and maybe he will turn things around. but given the chemistry Jimmy G had with his WR I find it hard to believe Deebo can reproduce what he did with anyone at QB in year 1.  Maybe in year 2 or 3 after developing some chemistry.   but Year 1 is a tall order unless you are bringing in Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes or someone of the like.  Even then.... the odds are less than 50-50.

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@Ray_T

I am 53 and a lifelong 49ers fan.

 

if you have read anything from me on this topic, I have had a similar view of lance, wanting jimmy to start until he could not.

From an nfl perspective, I thought signing Deebo was imperative for either qb.

 

for ff, it seems obvious that his numbers will decline due to the rushing tds.  I haven’t started mocking yet so do not know his current adp off hand.  We know that the contract has incentives for rushing yards and tds. I think he’ll hit those.
 

Things in his favor: shannahan’s offensive schemes, and ability to elevate qbs. 

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1 minute ago, Bier Meister said:

Things in his favor: shannahan’s offensive schemes, and ability to elevate qbs.

I agree.  Shanny has a way of making things work.

if Lance cannot get it done with Shanny coaching him, he wont get it done anywhere else either.

obviously Shanny had him sitting last year for a reason.   but hes not sitting now so something has changed.   I just dont know what it is yet.

so we wait and see.

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one last thing you have to be aware of with Shanny,   he does not care about your fantasy team.

if he thinks he can win by using Lance as a RB and the guy throws only 10 passes a game, then thats what he will do.

To that end, hes like Belicheck in the sense that you cannot count on predictability from one week to the next.   with a QB like Lance that can be a dangerous thing in terms of drafting WR's from this team.

Less risk with Deebo as they seem to have given him incentive to run the ball, but the bread is likely still buttered through the air because he is a WR.

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