I guess the Fetterman Oz debate didn't go so well.

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

13 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So the messaging is if we nominate a candidate that didn’t vote for a stupid war, hammer it home. And if we nominate a candidate that did vote for a stupid war, ignore that and talk about racism. So much nuance for someone to delve into. 

You don't think Republicans ever change messaging depending on who the opponent is?

[BeenHereBefore 1,525]

I voted for OZ and most people I know did. I know a few that voted for Fetterman cause of the hurting dogs commercial.

[BuckSwope 654]

6 hours ago, Reality said:

The revisionist history on Obama by the local left going on in this thread is incredible. 

 

6 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Lol that Obama didn’t race bait. What ever happened to occupy Wall Street? All that outrage? Yeah, it was replaced. With racial divide. 

Again, maybe you guys have different experiences than other people?   My experience was that even before he stepped foot in the Oval Office people 'round these parts were openly grumbling about a black man being president, people voting for him because he was black, on and on.   Those people were already divided, it wouldn't have mattered one bit what he did or said for those people.     THEN he said some of the things that you guys are talking about, and I am sure turned some people against him for those reasons.     

As with just about everything, there are two sides at play here, but of course each team will just point the finger at the other and not look around at themselves. 

[BuckSwope 654]

4 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

No. I think the cult of Obama and hero worship of him was pretty stupid as well. He certainly wasn't anything close to the greatest president ever either.

Anymore things you want to be wrong about?

I don't think he was the best ever, and I didn't vote for him the 2nd time around.   I will say that I have seen a few interviews in the last year and what I do miss is the intelligence, speaking skills, and sense of humor he brought to the position.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

8 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I don't think he was the best ever, and I didn't vote for him the 2nd time around.   I will say that I have seen a few interviews in the last year and what I do miss is the intelligence, speaking skills, and sense of humor he brought to the position.  

Love when the guy raised in Indonesia, spent his formative years in Hawaii, went to Ivy League schools, moved to Chicago slips into a southern accent. Yeah, I miss that.  Does he bring hot sauce with him too? 

[Raven Fan 362]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Love when the guy raised in Indonesia, spent his formative years in Hawaii, went to Ivy League schools, moved to Chicago slips into a southern accent. Yeah, I miss that.  Does he bring hot sauce with him too? 

Versus the gold toilet chitting, silver spoon, NYC real estate magnate son who somehow became the king of the common man by saying Mexicans were rapists and murderers.

If you're worried about being fake, Obama was much closer to authentic to the disaster that proceeded him.  Not to mention a billion times smarter and not just an overall douche. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

32 minutes ago, Raven Fan said:

Versus the gold toilet chitting, silver spoon, NYC real estate magnate son who somehow became the king of the common man by saying Mexicans were rapists and murderers.

If you're worried about being fake, Obama was much closer to authentic to the disaster that proceeded him.  Not to mention a billion times smarter and not just an overall douche. 

Bullseye. 

[jerryskids 6,799]

10 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

The whole idea of "Obama stirred up the racial divide," is completely idiotic. It is something the right says so they can blame racism on a black person. There are plenty of things to dislike about Obama and his policies without making up, or relying on, nonsense

This is awesome!  More times than I can count I've talked about how if you ever opposed anything Saint Barack did, it wasn't the policy, you were a raciss$#@!  Now I learn that we're racist for pointing out the obvious that he was racially divisive.  You can't make this stuff up.   

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This is awesome!  More times than I can count I've talked about how if you ever opposed anything Saint Barack did, it wasn't the policy, you were a raciss$#@!  Now I learn that we're racist for pointing out the obvious that he was racially divisive.  You can't make this stuff up.   

Build that strawman jerry. 

Fine you want to join the goofball brigade on this one yet again. 

[jerryskids 6,799]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

Build that strawman jerry. 

Fine you want to join the goofball brigade on this one yet again. 

How was that a strawman?

Also he was racially divisive, @Massholeprovided a good starter list of items.  I'm surprised a centrist like yourself can't see it.   

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

Just go to Obamas horrible speech after 5 Dallas cops were assassinated by a militant black to hear how racially divisive he was  

[BuckSwope 654]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Just go to Obamas horrible speech after 5 Dallas cops were assassinated by a militant black to hear how racially divisive he was  

You have a specific quote or time we should be looking at, or I am to watch all 40mins? 

[TimHauck 2,876]

3 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This is awesome!  More times than I can count I've talked about how if you ever opposed anything Saint Barack did, it wasn't the policy, you were a raciss$#@!  Now I learn that we're racist for pointing out the obvious that he was racially divisive.  You can't make this stuff up.   

Do you think Obama being racially divisive is why Trump won in 2016? (That’s how this whole Obama conversation got started)

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

How was that a strawman?

Also he was racially divisive, @Massholeprovided a good starter list of items.  I'm surprised a centrist like yourself can't see it.   

Yeah and let's look at some of those things on that list:

• Trayvon Martin is what his son would look like if he had one- His full quote talked about being a parent in general trying to appeal to all parents. Also, I mean what is false about the idea that Martin might look like his son if Obama had one. Also, many black leaders deeply criticized Obama for not going deep enough to castigate police over that. 
• Never used his position as the first AA to be elected president to calm racial strife.   All studies of the use of the terms "race" and "racism" show that the use of those terms in the news skyrocketed during Obama's 2 terms....So Obama is responsible for what the news says and does? And because they used "race" and "racism" a lot it shows he didn't do enough? Please. That is a dumb as sh!t argument and you both know that.
• His VP candidate told an audience of AA's that republicans would "put them back in chains".   BO did nothing to check that. There are many reports of that crowd as being 50/50 white and black...It was not an audience of strictly AA. Also, Obama did add more context to Biden's quotes later and tried to clarify them.
• How the hell do you have an AA president but somehow race relations got worse and somehow the concept of the USA being a "systemically racist" country exploded? So this is all Obama's fault? No one else takes any blame for this? Not FOX News saying him fist bumping his wife was a "terrorist signal"? Not Trump calling him the founder of Isis? The constant strain of him not being an American? I mean to build a whole list and then basically say this at the end is insanely idiotic. 

This list too also ignores when Obama did very clearly speak out against comments by Rev. Jeremiah Wright. He called for racial harmony and said all races have valid arguments about their place in America.

I like that you keep going back to the centrist thing as if it is an insult when I very clearly said- in this thread- Obama's hero worship was stupid and I did not agree with him. But I'm not laying a large portion of racial angst at his feet. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

13 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

You have a specific quote or time we should be looking at, or I am to watch all 40mins? 

Why don’t you remember ? 

[Herbivore 1,134]

22 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

How was that a strawman?

Also he was racially divisive, @Massholeprovided a good starter list of items.  I'm surprised a centrist like yourself can't see it.   

one of the items on @Masshole list is the Trayvon could be son line. this highlights how fockin stupid this take is. this is a completely innocuous sympathetic statement about a young person tragically killed. it has been said of thousands of young tragic deaths. but this time it divides a nation. and that Boston cop was stupid.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Yeah and let's look at some of those things on that list:

• Trayvon Martin is what his son would look like if he had one- His full quote talked about being a parent in general trying to appeal to all parents. Also, I mean what is false about the idea that Martin might look like his son if Obama had one. Also, many black leaders deeply criticized Obama for not going deep enough to castigate police over that. 
• Never used his position as the first AA to be elected president to calm racial strife.   All studies of the use of the terms "race" and "racism" show that the use of those terms in the news skyrocketed during Obama's 2 terms....So Obama is responsible for what the news says and does? And because they used "race" and "racism" a lot it shows he didn't do enough? Please. That is a dumb as sh!t argument and you both know that.
• His VP candidate told an audience of AA's that republicans would "put them back in chains".   BO did nothing to check that. There are many reports of that crowd as being 50/50 white and black...It was not an audience of strictly AA. Also, Obama did add more context to Biden's quotes later and tried to clarify them.
• How the hell do you have an AA president but somehow race relations got worse and somehow the concept of the USA being a "systemically racist" country exploded? So this is all Obama's fault? No one else takes any blame for this? Not FOX News saying him fist bumping his wife was a "terrorist signal"? Not Trump calling him the founder of Isis? The constant strain of him not being an American? I mean to build a whole list and then basically say this at the end is insanely idiotic. 

This list too also ignores when Obama did very clearly speak out against comments by Rev. Jeremiah Wright. He called for racial harmony and said all races have valid arguments about their place in America.

I like that you keep going back to the centrist thing as if it is an insult when I very clearly said- in this thread- Obama's hero worship was stupid and I did not agree with him. But I'm not laying a large portion of racial angst at his feet. 

Obama went racial prior to hi second campaign. Had to redirect that occupy Wall Street outrage towards his banker backers. Worked.  

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why don’t you remember ? 

2016 would have been the birth of my 2nd.   Also, I barely ever watch speeches or debates from politicians, period - let alone when there might be stress and less free time in my life.  

I am watching it now, care to answer the question?   I am the 11min mark were the monster starts talking about how he understands the plight on both sides, how we aren't as divided as it might feel, and how he has belief we will get through based on how far we've come and his experiences?  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

25 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

2016 would have been the birth of my 2nd.   Also, I barely ever watch speeches or debates from politicians, period - let alone when there might be stress and less free time in my life.  

I am watching it now, care to answer the question?   I am the 11min mark were the monster starts talking about how he understands the plight on both sides, how we aren't as divided as it might feel, and how he has belief we will get through based on how far we've come and his experiences?  

Keep watching. 

[BuckSwope 654]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Keep watching. 

I had to put the kiddo asleep, so I had to take a break.  I am now past the 20min mark and he's gone on about how watching the black and white people come together is his America and how the vast majority of police are doing it right and deserve our respect.   

I know, keep listening.  

[BuckSwope 654]

I am guessing one beef of yours will be about the 24-25 minute mark commenting about how it hurts to have your experience dismissed and the stats about the black community?  

[BuckSwope 654]

Lmao at the lady cop falling asleep behind him.    

Yeah, I think you should be more specific on how racially divisive this speech was.    Mixed in with the few things I'd guess you are talking about, is a general message about opening our hearts to each other, listening to each other's experience and decided to come together.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

11 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Lmao at the lady cop falling asleep behind him.    

Yeah, I think you should be more specific on how racially divisive this speech was.    Mixed in with the few things I'd guess you are talking about, is a general message about opening our hearts to each other, listening to each other's experience and decided to come together.  

Can you pull out the quote where he talks about  what hurts? And maybe explain why the Fock he would say that, then, at memorial for 5 cops killed by a militant black? Why did he specially call out white people, for being dismissive, then? And FYI, nobody GAF that you’re tending to your children. You’re supposed to. No points. 

[Herbivore 1,134]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Can you pull out the quote where he talks about  what hurts? And maybe explain why the Fock he would say that, then, at memorial for 5 cops killed by a militant black? Why did he specially call out white people, for being dismissive, then? And FYI, nobody GAF that you’re tending to your children. You’re supposed to. No points. 

fna man. he gave an acct of watching the whole thing. its on you. pull out the quotes you are talking about or shut it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

1 minute ago, Herbivore said:

fna man. he gave an acct of watching the whole thing. its on you. pull out the quotes you are talking about or shut it.

I paraphrased. Close enough. I work off of memory. Tell me I’m wrong or stfu. Thanks. 

[Herbivore 1,134]

20 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I paraphrased. Close enough. I work off of memory. Tell me I’m wrong or stfu. Thanks. 

No points

[BuckSwope 654]

27 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Can you pull out the quote where he talks about  what hurts? And maybe explain why the Fock he would say that, then, at memorial for 5 cops killed by a militant black? Why did he specially call out white people, for being dismissive, then? And FYI, nobody GAF that you’re tending to your children. You’re supposed to. No points. 

So sorry, you seemed to be wanting updates on my viewing, so I just was giving the reason I hadn't finished yet.  

I don't know, and that's that what I was talking about that I figured you had a beef about.   We can have a discussion about if it was appropriate at all to bring that up in that context.  I understand that would rub people the wrong way, and cringed a bit when he did.   We can also have a discussion about why that specific part might or might not wipe out the rest of the tone of the speech I was talking about that was about opening our hearts up to each other.   We can also have a discussion why you focus on that part so heavily and dismiss the other parts where he was talking to the black communities and basically telling them they also know damn well how dangerous some of their neighborhoods are.  Or that we aren't helping our cops out enough and it silly to expect different outcomes when we don't.    Do you have issue with the content of this speech in general, or is it because it was at that specific event he brought the other stuff?  

I can 1000% imagine media and social media running with those clips and not the full speech.  If I copy and pasted that 30secs or so out of context it also looks different than in the middle of a 38min speech that also included a ton of praise for police and to a level of being overboard saying to open our hearts to each other and listen to each other.   Personally, I don't have an issue with what he said, but if asked I would have told him to save some of that for another event and stick to the police stuff for that day.  Not sure it's enough to use as an example of Obama setting back race relations 30-50 years like I've seen tossed around in the last couple days. (I can't remember if that was you specifically or AI and somebody else.  

[Raven Fan 362]

4 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Can you pull out the quote where he talks about  what hurts? And maybe explain why the Fock he would say that, then, at memorial for 5 cops killed by a militant black? Why did he specially call out white people, for being dismissive, then? And FYI, nobody GAF that you’re tending to your children. You’re supposed to. No points. 

That was a typical great speech by Obama and included nothing more racially divisive than the facts that blacks are treated differently at all levels of law enforcement than whites.  He talked about how brave the officers were, called them heroes, etc.

Yet you choose to claim a tiny piece of a brilliant speech made it racially divisive?  Maybe you need to rethink your stance on Obama if this is what you put forward as evidence of him being racially divisive.  Trump, who you likely like, literally started his campaign off calling mexicans rapist and murderers.  That my friend is an example of being racialy divisive. 

[Raven Fan 362]

6 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

Yeah and let's look at some of those things on that list:

• Trayvon Martin is what his son would look like if he had one- His full quote talked about being a parent in general trying to appeal to all parents. Also, I mean what is false about the idea that Martin might look like his son if Obama had one. Also, many black leaders deeply criticized Obama for not going deep enough to castigate police over that. 
• Never used his position as the first AA to be elected president to calm racial strife.   All studies of the use of the terms "race" and "racism" show that the use of those terms in the news skyrocketed during Obama's 2 terms....So Obama is responsible for what the news says and does? And because they used "race" and "racism" a lot it shows he didn't do enough? Please. That is a dumb as sh!t argument and you both know that.
• His VP candidate told an audience of AA's that republicans would "put them back in chains".   BO did nothing to check that. There are many reports of that crowd as being 50/50 white and black...It was not an audience of strictly AA. Also, Obama did add more context to Biden's quotes later and tried to clarify them.
• How the hell do you have an AA president but somehow race relations got worse and somehow the concept of the USA being a "systemically racist" country exploded? So this is all Obama's fault? No one else takes any blame for this? Not FOX News saying him fist bumping his wife was a "terrorist signal"? Not Trump calling him the founder of Isis? The constant strain of him not being an American? I mean to build a whole list and then basically say this at the end is insanely idiotic. 

This list too also ignores when Obama did very clearly speak out against comments by Rev. Jeremiah Wright. He called for racial harmony and said all races have valid arguments about their place in America.

I like that you keep going back to the centrist thing as if it is an insult when I very clearly said- in this thread- Obama's hero worship was stupid and I did not agree with him. But I'm not laying a large portion of racial angst at his feet. 

Keep up the good work friend. 

[craftsman 1,045]

5 minutes ago, Raven Fan said:

Keep up the good work friend. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

5 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

So sorry, you seemed to be wanting updates on my viewing, so I just was giving the reason I hadn't finished yet.  

I don't know, and that's that what I was talking about that I figured you had a beef about.   We can have a discussion about if it was appropriate at all to bring that up in that context.  I understand that would rub people the wrong way, and cringed a bit when he did.   We can also have a discussion about why that specific part might or might not wipe out the rest of the tone of the speech I was talking about that was about opening our hearts up to each other.   We can also have a discussion why you focus on that part so heavily and dismiss the other parts where he was talking to the black communities and basically telling them they also know damn well how dangerous some of their neighborhoods are.  Or that we aren't helping our cops out enough and it silly to expect different outcomes when we don't.    Do you have issue with the content of this speech in general, or is it because it was at that specific event he brought the other stuff?  

I can 1000% imagine media and social media running with those clips and not the full speech.  If I copy and pasted that 30secs or so out of context it also looks different than in the middle of a 38min speech that also included a ton of praise for police and to a level of being overboard saying to open our hearts to each other and listen to each other.   Personally, I don't have an issue with what he said, but if asked I would have told him to save some of that for another event and stick to the police stuff for that day.  Not sure it's enough to use as an example of Obama setting back race relations 30-50 years like I've seen tossed around in the last couple days. (I can't remember if that was you specifically or AI and somebody else.  

Tl/dr

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

1 hour ago, Raven Fan said:

That was a typical great speech by Obama and included nothing more racially divisive than the facts that blacks are treated differently at all levels of law enforcement than whites.  He talked about how brave the officers were, called them heroes, etc.

Yet you choose to claim a tiny piece of a brilliant speech made it racially divisive?  Maybe you need to rethink your stance on Obama if this is what you put forward as evidence of him being racially divisive.  Trump, who you likely like, literally started his campaign off calling mexicans rapist and murderers.  That my friend is an example of being racialy divisive. 

It as a memorial for 5 murdered cops. It wasn’t the place for him scolding white Americans.  But at that point it’s what he had become. It was incredibly racially divisive, and extremely inappropriate. Never let a crisis go to waste. And he killed so many babies overseas. Who was he to be pointing fingers? 

[Raven Fan 362]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It as a memorial for 5 murdered cops. It wasn’t the place for him scolding white Americans.  But at that point it’s what he had become. It was incredibly racially divisive, and extremely inappropriate. Never let a crisis go to waste. And he killed so many babies overseas. Who was he to be pointing fingers? 

It was a 35 minute speech that he spent maybe 1 minute of talking about racial injustice since it was a huge topic at that moment.  Are you such a snowflake that you can't accept facts?  The vast vast majority of the speech was spent praising the officers and police, yet you choose to focus on a few moments of facts that make you uncomfortable.

And he killed so many babies overseas?  WAT?  I guess the commander in chiefs have always "killed babies overseas" then.

Facts over feelz friend. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

6 minutes ago, Raven Fan said:

It was a 35 minute speech that he spent maybe 1 minute of talking about racial injustice since it was a huge topic at that moment.  Are you such a snowflake that you can't accept facts?  The vast vast majority of the speech was spent praising the officers and police, yet you choose to focus on a few moments of facts that make you uncomfortable.

And he killed so many babies overseas?  WAT?  I guess the commander in chiefs have always "killed babies overseas" then.

Facts over feelz friend. 

I don’t accept  moral scolding from child killers. Obama killed a lot of kids. 

[Raven Fan 362]

11 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I don’t accept  moral scolding from child killers. Obama killed a lot of kids. 

What does that even mean?  Is Trump a child killer?  Bushes?  Clinton?  Reagan?

What a stupid position to take.  Please continue to vote Trump...lol

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

1 minute ago, Raven Fan said:

What does that even mean?  Is Trump a child killer?  Bushes?  Clinton?  Reagan?

What a stupid position to take.  Please continue to vote Trump...lol

I don’t accept moral scoldings from Trump either. Then again, he didn’t give  any. It’s all Obama did when he wasn’t busy killing kids. 

[BuckSwope 654]

43 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Tl/dr

Yeah, my guess was you didn't actually expect people to watch it or think about the whole speech, just the fraction you wanted to discuss.  

Based on this interaction and you being perplexed that I would think both sides of the try to buy votes, I am guessing Raven Fan is more your speed.   I predict you two will get along better.  He is the hyper-left partisan you are looking for.... 

[Raven Fan 362]

29 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I don’t accept moral scoldings from Trump either. Then again, he didn’t give  any. It’s all Obama did when he wasn’t busy killing kids. 

So all you got out of a 35 minute speech that was 95% giving love to the cops and the profession, was a 1 minute "moral scolding"?

When did conservatives become such snowflakes?

[TimHauck 2,876]

1 hour ago, Raven Fan said:

It was a 35 minute speech that he spent maybe 1 minute of talking about racial injustice since it was a huge topic at that moment.  Are you such a snowflake that you can't accept facts? 

Yes, yes he is.  You’ll learn.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,436]

21 minutes ago, Raven Fan said:

So all you got out of a 35 minute speech that was 95% giving love to the cops and the profession, was a 1 minute "moral scolding"?

When did conservatives become such snowflakes?

More than a minute and time and place.  “Sorry you cops got murdered at a , for once, peaceful protest by a militant black nationalist, but y’all white folk need to stop being so dismissive”. I just summed the whole thing up. The families of the slain cops weren’t there to hear that shite from an incredibly flawed person.