Just so we are being honest....

[jonmx 1,766]

Today's Liberal:

1.  Fully supports a fascist alliance between the federal government and huge monopolistic corporations to suppress the 'spread of misinformation', previously known as free speech and a free press.

2.  Fully supports a hierarchy structure of citizens where rights, benefits and legal protection are purely based on race and gender identity.  

3.  Fully supports the state being the primary authority on the raising of your children.  

4.  Fully supported state run universities in in their purge of all dissenting non-leftist ideologies from its ranks and supports the current effort to do the same within federal government bureaucracies.  

  

[Engorgeous George 1,346]

I don't imagine this thread will lead to a reconciliation between views, but lets see,

[jonmx 1,766]

10 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I don't imagine this thread will lead to a reconciliation between views, but lets see,

If you think the left is looking for reconciliation, you are are being naive and sadly mistaken.  There has been an all out war against ordinary American citizens by the leftist elitists using governments and large corporation.  The left sees ordinary people as the 'largest threat to Democracy', which is just code for their liberal-fascist utopia.   The modern left has abandoned communism and now is closer to embracing a globalist fascism where elitists have supreme power. 

[Engorgeous George 1,346]

2 minutes ago, jonmx said:

If you think the left is looking for reconciliation, you are are being naive and sadly mistaken.  There has been an all out war against ordinary American citizens by the leftist elitists using governments and large corporation.  The left sees ordinary people as the 'largest threat to Democracy', which is just code for their liberal-fascist utopia.   The modern left has abandoned communism and now is closer to embracing fascism. 

I think neither side of the great divide is willing to reconcile their differences. I think there will be much pain before both come to the realization that demonization of the other only leads to pain for all.  

As for me being naive and mistaken, well I thank you for your gentle assessment of my position.  I have been called far worse. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

We're in the midst of 5th gen warfare right now.  Some don't know what that is.  Some won't admit that it is happening.  Ultimately we either wake up or are conquered. 

Musk buying twitter was a major win in this war, but there is a long way to go.  

[GutterBoy 2,539]

Sounds like we need a civil war

[jonmx 1,766]

14 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

We're in the midst of 5th gen warfare right now.  Some don't know what that is.  Some won't admit that it is happening.  Ultimately we either wake up or are conquered. 

Musk buying twitter was a major win in this war, but there is a long way to go.  

Musk will either join them or end of dead, IMHO.  If Musk wants to live the happy life of the rich and powerful, he will submit.   

In related item, it is not surprising that McCarthy has flipped on releasing 10,000 hours of January 6th footage out of "concerns for national security".   The feds have secret files on McCarthy which will destroy him, if he exposed the January 6th for the Big Lie that it was, he would be finished.  The "National Security" excuse is to protect from exposing the FBI-CIA as rogue gestopo-type organizations which are manipulating and controlling public opinion by creating events like January 6th and the Whitmer kidnapping. 

[jonmx 1,766]

11 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Sounds like we need a civil war

One side has been fighting one for decades.  It is time for the citizens to wake up and realize what is going on.  

[League Champion 1,593]

14 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Sounds like we need a civil war

Or for liberals to wake up realize that it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The Liberal way clearly isn't working. When your President is paying Ukrainian pensions but our Seniors can't afford life saving prescriptions,.we have a problem here. Admit it 

[jonmx 1,766]

2 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Or for liberals to wake up realize that it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The Liberal way clearly isn't working. When your President is paying Ukrainian pensions but our Seniors can't afford life saving prescriptions,.we have a problem here. Admit it 

I don't think the typical democratic-liberal voter has a clue on what an evil diabolical form of government they are voting for.   

[TK0001 97]

Are you intentionally blurring the line between leftist and liberal?

Conveniently placing the entire group in the same bucket o' crazy works so well when applied to Conservatives. I can't imagine how anyone on the left would take offense to this.

[jonmx 1,766]

29 minutes ago, TK0001 said:

Are you intentionally blurring the line between leftist and liberal?

Conveniently placing the entire group in the same bucket o' crazy works so well when applied to Conservatives. I can't imagine how anyone on the left would take offense to this.

Liberals are doing the job of blurring the lines themselves.  I used to respect organizations like the ACLU, because they took legitimately liberal stances on things like free speech.  But today they are a purely leftist organization which believes in fighting 'disinformation' and allowing the government and mega corporations to be the gatekeeper of truth.   They also believe in this hierarchy where different people have different rights and benefits based upon some conceptual past mistreatments of their supposed ancestors, not based on reality but based upon race.  

The difference is my conflating liberals with modern leftists is that radical leftism has become mainstream liberal Democrat thinking, while the conflation of conservatives with the radical racists fascists is utterly ridiculous, because they are truly a fringe group which has no influence.  The Democrats are actually advocating and  advancing a radical fascist form of government as we speak.  

The mainstream conservative movement advocates equal protection under the law and the government respecting the Constitution where individual rights trumps government authority. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

44 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Musk will either join them or end of dead, IMHO.  If Musk wants to live the happy life of the rich and powerful, he will submit.   

In related item, it is not surprising that McCarthy has flipped on releasing 10,000 hours of January 6th footage out of "concerns for national security".   The feds have secret files on McCarthy which will destroy him, if he exposed the January 6th for the Big Lie that it was, he would be finished.  The "National Security" excuse is to protect from exposing the FBI-CIA as rogue gestopo-type organizations which are manipulating and controlling public opinion by creating events like January 6th and the Whitmer kidnapping. 

It has been reported that McCarthy is giving the tapes to Tucker, so I expect to see the most damning parts aired within in the week.

It has also been reported that the tapes have been provided to J6 defendants for their defense.  So anything that clears them should also come to light.  

I was following tik tok closely on J6th. I've seen more videos taken from that day that seem to have been lost.  I have no doubt the more videos released, the better it is for everyone (except the J6 narrative). There are literally cops moving barriers and waiving people in.  That isn't an insurrection.  

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

1 hour ago, jonmx said:

Today's Liberal:

1.  Fully supports a fascist alliance between the federal government and huge monopolistic corporations to suppress the 'spread of misinformation', previously known as free speech and a free press.

2.  Fully supports a hierarchy structure of citizens where rights, benefits and legal protection are purely based on race and gender identity.  

3.  Fully supports the state being the primary authority on the raising of your children.  

4.  Fully supported state run universities in in their purge of all dissenting non-leftist ideologies from its ranks and supports the current effort to do the same within federal government bureaucracies.  

  

I consider myself a liberal and I am not for these things. I don’t know any liberals who are for these things. I’ve never heard any liberal politician or personality ever say they are for any of these things. 
 

If you disagree with liberalism so much, how about you criticize what we’re actually about, based on our statements and actions, rather than create a fantasy to demonize against? 

[RLLD 3,588]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I consider myself a liberal and I am not for these things. I don’t know any liberals who are for these things. I’ve never heard any liberal politician or personality ever say they are for any of these things. 
 

If you disagree with liberalism so much, how about you criticize what we’re actually about, based on our statements and actions, rather than create a fantasy to demonize against? 

Do you understand that the passive allowance for all of this results in these observations?

These items that were listed at the start of the thread we have evidence available that results in these observations.  This is not simply a "feeling" such as white supremacy or racism....this is tangible and credible evidence-based concepts. 

I think you seem reasonable, I wish your voice was move evident within the Democrats and liberals, but if you were to bring some element of reason and collaboration to the table, do you believe you would be accepted or cancelled?

 

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Do you understand that the passive allowance for all of this results in these observations?

These items that were listed at the start of the thread we have evidence available that results in these observations.  This is not simply a "feeling" such as white supremacy or racism....this is tangible and credible evidence-based concepts. 

I think you seem reasonable, I wish your voice was move evident within the Democrats and liberals, but if you were to bring some element of reason and collaboration to the table, do you believe you would be accepted or cancelled?

 

I don’t believe there’s any passive allowance for the list jon offered. I don’t believe any of it is happening. I don’t think the “evidence” you’re citing leads in the direction you claim it does. 
 

To answer your last question, of course reason and moderation would be accepted; it already has been. The victory of Biden over Bernie Sanders in the 2020 Democratic primaries is really all you need to know. The utter isolation of the “Squad” from any real political power or decision making should tell you even more. The Democratic Party remains centrist and moderate as it has always been. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

Or for liberals to wake up realize that it's not all sunshine and rainbows. The Liberal way clearly isn't working. When your President is paying Ukrainian pensions but our Seniors can't afford life saving prescriptions,.we have a problem here. Admit it 

maybe Biden wants our seniors to apply for ukrainian citizenship to enjoy the american social safety net?????  otherwise they get nothing!

[Ultra Max Power 214]

9 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think you seem reasonable, I wish your voice was move evident within the Democrats and liberals, but if you were to bring some element of reason and collaboration to the table, do you believe you would be accepted or cancelled?

 

I forget which podcast I was listening to at the time that discussed this idea.  It was discussing the modern liberal group think front.  There are certain ideas where liberals are allowed to disagree with each other,  i.e. universal basic income or masking policies, but there are other aspects that disagreeing with will get you shunned from the group like Trans rights, J6 or vaccines. 

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

1 minute ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I forget which podcast I was listening to at the time that discussed this idea.  It was discussing the modern liberal group think front.  There are certain ideas where liberals are allowed to disagree with each other,  i.e. universal basic income or masking policies, but there are other aspects that disagreeing with will get you shunned from the group like Trans rights, J6 or vaccines. 

I’ve disagreed with other liberals at times on all of those subjects. Nobody has shunned me yet. 

[Mike Honcho 4,191]

2 hours ago, jonmx said:

Today's Liberal:

1.  Fully supports a fascist alliance between the federal government and huge monopolistic corporations to suppress the 'spread of misinformation', previously known as free speech and a free press.

2.  Fully supports a hierarchy structure of citizens where rights, benefits and legal protection are purely based on race and gender identity.  

3.  Fully supports the state being the primary authority on the raising of your children.  

4.  Fully supported state run universities in in their purge of all dissenting non-leftist ideologies from its ranks and supports the current effort to do the same within federal government bureaucracies.  

  

Since I'm a a big believer in not saying anything, if you don't have anything nice to say, I'm not going to tell you what I honestly think about your post. 

[RLLD 3,588]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe there’s any passive allowance for the list jon offered. I don’t believe any of it is happening. I don’t think the “evidence” you’re citing leads in the direction you claim it does. 
 

To answer your last question, of course reason and moderation would be accepted; it already has been. The victory of Biden over Bernie Sanders in the 2020 Democratic primaries is really all you need to know. The utter isolation of the “Squad” from any real political power or decision making should tell you even more. The Democratic Party remains centrist and moderate as it has always been. 

We obviously see the world differently, and that is of course just fine.  Everyone has a voice, an opinion, and some value to contribute in terms of their perspective.

On the evidence, reason and compromise are not welcome within the Democrat party. We saw this with Manchin, Gabbert, Sinema and others.  Democrats are intolerant, in part because they have boxed themselves into that status. Their move to garner votes through fear by assigning the notion of "evil" to the Republicans effectively removes their ability to compromise and fed the rise of the "squad".

It is common for Democrats to impetuously grab at the immediate gratification and ignore the wider consequences, as they have demonstrated over and over....and not just because the areas they have controlled for decades have become hell holes. it is the other actions that create that circumstance more so. 

1.  Fully supports a fascist alliance between the federal government and huge monopolistic corporations to suppress the 'spread of misinformation', previously known as free speech and a free press.
 - proven through their inadvisable collaborations with Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and media outlets. 

2.  Fully supports a hierarchy structure of citizens where rights, benefits and legal protection are purely based on race and gender identity.  
 - proven through more than the "affirmative action" nonsense, also we see them accentuate the placement of people in key positions with these elements raised as the reason

3.  Fully supports the state being the primary authority on the raising of your children.  
 - proven through their Freudian slips to defend their indoctrination of kids, and ongoing support for teachers who are manipulating kids

4.  Fully supported state run universities in in their purge of all dissenting non-leftist ideologies from its ranks and supports the current effort to do the same within federal government bureaucracies.  
 - proven through more than the dominance of liberalism at universities, more so by the intolerance of non-liberal ideas

[dogcows 1,030]

2 hours ago, jonmx said:

Today's Liberal:

1.  Fully supports a fascist alliance between the federal government and huge monopolistic corporations to suppress the 'spread of misinformation', previously known as free speech and a free press.

2.  Fully supports a hierarchy structure of citizens where rights, benefits and legal protection are purely based on race and gender identity.  

3.  Fully supports the state being the primary authority on the raising of your children.  

4.  Fully supported state run universities in in their purge of all dissenting non-leftist ideologies from its ranks and supports the current effort to do the same within federal government bureaucracies.  

  

If we have to be honest in this thread, I will be. This list is a load of that is fueled by nonsense right wing talk radio conspiracies. If you think white people are the ones being discriminated against, you really aren’t paying attention to reality. 
 

And with the attacks on academic freedom underway in Florida by DeSantis, it’s the conservative politicians forcing their views on academics, not the other way around. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve disagreed with other liberals at times on all of those subjects. Nobody has shunned me yet. 

I'm glad it hasn't impacted you.  There was a teen who transitioned young on Tulsi Gabbard's podcast.  She was discussing her journey and how it was supported by many at the time and now that she realized it was a mistake and is being vocal about the dangers of transitioning, that previous support network has not only shunned her, but is now actively demonizing her.  

Not shockingly Tusli Gabbard agreed that happens with some political leanings. 

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

We obviously see the world differently, and that is of course just fine.  Everyone has a voice, an opinion, and some value to contribute in terms of their perspective.

On the evidence, reason and compromise are not welcome within the Democrat party. We saw this with Manchin, Gabbert, Sinema and others.  Democrats are intolerant, in part because they have boxed themselves into that status. Their move to garner votes through fear by assigning the notion of "evil" to the Republicans effectively removes their ability to compromise and fed the rise of the "squad".

It is common for Democrats to impetuously grab at the immediate gratification and ignore the wider consequences, as they have demonstrated over and over....and not just because the areas they have controlled for decades have become hell holes. it is the other actions that create that circumstance more so. 

1.  Fully supports a fascist alliance between the federal government and huge monopolistic corporations to suppress the 'spread of misinformation', previously known as free speech and a free press.
 - proven through their inadvisable collaborations with Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and media outlets. 

2.  Fully supports a hierarchy structure of citizens where rights, benefits and legal protection are purely based on race and gender identity.  
 - proven through more than the "affirmative action" nonsense, also we see them accentuate the placement of people in key positions with these elements raised as the reason

3.  Fully supports the state being the primary authority on the raising of your children.  
 - proven through their Freudian slips to defend their indoctrination of kids, and ongoing support for teachers who are manipulating kids

4.  Fully supported state run universities in in their purge of all dissenting non-leftist ideologies from its ranks and supports the current effort to do the same within federal government bureaucracies.  
 - proven through more than the dominance of liberalism at universities, more so by the intolerance of non-liberal ideas

I wouldn’t even know where to begin. Every one of your “proofs” is deeply flawed. For example, those who support affirmative action aren’t looking to form a society where rights, benefits and legal protection are based on race and gender identity. That’s just nonsense. AA is an attempt to even the playing field. That’s all. It may not work very well (personally I don’t think it does and I’ve become opposed over the years) but don’t make it into something it’s not. 
 

Similarly, one can argue over the wisdom of the government trying to influence or place restrictions on social media- there are reasonable arguments to be made on all sides of that issue- but to suggest that anyone is seeking a “fascist alliance” is just absurd. It’s not proven at all, it’s just a ridiculous falsehood. 
 

And on and on. 

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

4 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I'm glad it hasn't impacted you.  There was a teen who transitioned young on Tulsi Gabbard's podcast.  She was discussing her journey and how it was supported by many at the time and now that she realized it was a mistake and is being vocal about the dangers of transitioning, that previous support network has not only shunned her, but is now actively demonizing her.  

Not shockingly Tusli Gabbard agreed that happens with some political leanings. 

If she’s spreading nonsense that is the opposite of what the vast majority of medical experts tell us about transitioning, then I would shun her myself. I can’t speak for others but personally I’m not interested in her “testimony.” 

[Dizkneelande 859]

11 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We obviously see the world differently, and that is of course just fine.  Everyone has a voice, an opinion, and some value to contribute in terms of their perspective.

On the evidence, reason and compromise are not welcome within the Democrat party. We saw this with Manchin, Gabbert, Sinema and others.  Democrats are intolerant, in part because they have boxed themselves into that status. Their move to garner votes through fear by assigning the notion of "evil" to the Republicans effectively removes their ability to compromise and fed the rise of the "squad".

It is common for Democrats to impetuously grab at the immediate gratification and ignore the wider consequences, as they have demonstrated over and over....and not just because the areas they have controlled for decades have become hell holes. it is the other actions that create that circumstance more so. 

1.  Fully supports a fascist alliance between the federal government and huge monopolistic corporations to suppress the 'spread of misinformation', previously known as free speech and a free press.
 - proven through their inadvisable collaborations with Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and media outlets. 

2.  Fully supports a hierarchy structure of citizens where rights, benefits and legal protection are purely based on race and gender identity.  
 - proven through more than the "affirmative action" nonsense, also we see them accentuate the placement of people in key positions with these elements raised as the reason

3.  Fully supports the state being the primary authority on the raising of your children.  
 - proven through their Freudian slips to defend their indoctrination of kids, and ongoing support for teachers who are manipulating kids

4.  Fully supported state run universities in in their purge of all dissenting non-leftist ideologies from its ranks and supports the current effort to do the same within federal government bureaucracies.  
 - proven through more than the dominance of liberalism at universities, more so by the intolerance of non-liberal ideas

Don’t bother even though everything you outlined is 100% true. Tim is a c¥nt and will claim none of this is happening even though Biden just issued an Executive Order transforming the federal gov’t into a DEI cult. They want equity czars in every agency and ordering every bureaucrat to use the state’s vast power to enforce “outcome-based” racial/gender equity in all decisions. 

[RLLD 3,588]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I wouldn’t even know where to begin. Every one of your “proofs” is deeply flawed. For example, those who support affirmative action aren’t looking to form a society where rights, benefits and legal protection are based on race and gender identity. That’s just nonsense. AA is an attempt to even the playing field. That’s all. It may not work very well (personally I don’t think it does and I’ve become opposed over the years) but don’t make it into something it’s not. 
 

Similarly, one can argue over the wisdom of the government trying to influence or place restrictions on social media- there are reasonable arguments to be made on all sides of that issue- but to suggest that anyone is seeking a “fascist alliance” is just absurd. It’s not proven at all, it’s just a ridiculous falsehood. 
 

And on and on. 

I was concerned that you might key on the exclusions instead of on the proofs, but I felt that eliminating them up front as I attempted to do might allow for a more efficient conversation.

My examples are not flawed, excepted in your biased view.  I did not use affirmative action as a proof, but instead sought to eliminate it right up front to hopefully create a more clear line. 

Governmental alliances, which need not be formal, that result in benefit toward government as was done with social media companies is actual facism.  I know that term gets thrown around some, and often used as a bludgeon to silence people. But that is exactly how actual facism works.  Now what the left has done is to manipulate the meaning of the term to be something more suitable to generating fear.....and while I do not support facism.....or communism....or socialism....because they are all deeply flawed.....the term facism has been misused to the extent that people do not understand it. 

[RLLD 3,588]

2 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Don’t bother even though everything you outlined is 100% true. Tim is a c¥nt and will claim none of this is happening even though Biden just issued an Executive Order transforming the federal gov’t into a DEI cult. They want equity czars in every agency and ordering every bureaucrat to use the state’s vast power to enforce “outcome-based” racial/gender equity in all decisions. 

I think you are wrong about "tim". I think he posts forthrightly and has some interesting positions, while I do not always agree with him I think he and I just see the world differently.

I might suggest that if his positions were right then Baltimore, Chicago and New York would be heaven on earth.....and people would not be fleeing these localities for areas where conservative policies are more prevalent.

But that aside, Democrat policies are based on the same failed policies as though of Mao, North Korea, Venezuela and even Cambodia.  They presume to be able to change human behaviors, and they are wrong on that.....as were their totalitarian ancestors. I just wish their eyes were more open to this. 

[TK0001 97]

1 hour ago, jonmx said:

Liberals are doing the job of blurring the lines themselves.  I used to respect organizations like the ACLU, because they took legitimately liberal stances on things like free speech.  But today they are a purely leftist organization which believes in fighting 'disinformation' and allowing the government and mega corporations to be the gatekeeper of truth.   They also believe in this hierarchy where different people have different rights and benefits based upon some conceptual past mistreatments of their supposed ancestors, not based on reality but based upon race.  

The difference is my conflating liberals with modern leftists is that radical leftism has become mainstream liberal Democrat thinking, while the conflation of conservatives with the radical racists fascists is utterly ridiculous, because they are truly a fringe group which has no influence.  The Democrats are actually advocating and  advancing a radical fascist form of government as we speak.  

The mainstream conservative movement advocates equal protection under the law and the government respecting the Constitution where individual rights trumps government authority. 

So you're listening to the most extreme views and painting all of the left with the same brush.

Dems are catering to the loudest voices, the same way you're defining the entire left based on those same voices. You don't speak for "mainstream liberals" because the loudest voices, which is all you pay attention to, are on the fringes.

It's funny you can be so bold to define what mainstream conservatives stand for, when if you listen to CNN and knew nothing better, you would equate conservatives with racism and hatred of the environment. We view each other as caricatures and not real people.

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I was concerned that you might key on the exclusions instead of on the proofs, but I felt that eliminating them up front as I attempted to do might allow for a more efficient conversation.

My examples are not flawed, excepted in your biased view.  I did not use affirmative action as a proof, but instead sought to eliminate it right up front to hopefully create a more clear line. 

Governmental alliances, which need not be formal, that result in benefit toward government as was done with social media companies is actual facism.  I know that term gets thrown around some, and often used as a bludgeon to silence people. But that is exactly how actual facism works.  Now what the left has done is to manipulate the meaning of the term to be something more suitable to generating fear.....and while I do not support facism.....or communism....or socialism....because they are all deeply flawed.....the term facism has been misused to the extent that people do not understand it. 

Well if your purpose is to water down the term so much as to make it meaningless then you’ve done a good job. 
 

In the 1950s, the FBI visited most movie studios in Hollywood along with most universities and pressured those in charge to fire anyone suspected of being a “red”. Many innocent people had their lives ruined. That’s far worse government pressure than anything you’re referencing going on now. But guess what? It still wasn’t Fascism. Fascism isn’t subtle, it isn’t underhanded, it doesn’t creep up as a “slippery slope”. It appears and seized power over the state. It’s never hidden. 

[Dizkneelande 859]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I think you are wrong about "tim". I think he posts forthrightly and has some interesting positions, while I do not always agree with him I think he and I just see the world differently.

I might suggest that if his positions were right then Baltimore, Chicago and New York would be heaven on earth.....and people would not be fleeing these localities for areas where conservative policies are more prevalent.

But that aside, Democrat policies are based on the same failed policies as though of Mao, North Korea, Venezuela and even Cambodia.  They presume to be able to change human behaviors, and they are wrong on that.....as were their totalitarian ancestors. I just wish their eyes were more open to this. 

And there he is claiming it’s not happening. Still think I’m wrong? Maybe you do but I don’t think highly of people that advocated for the firing of employees that did not get the Covid shot, advocated for shutting down small businesses, supports sexualized materials in  k-6, the MIC, open borders and policies that are hyper destructive to the working class. These are just a few examples of things modern leftists support. 

[MDC 6,013]

OP probably thinks 50% of everyone out there is a liberal but described believes held by maybe 1-2% of the country. 

[jonmx 1,766]

6 minutes ago, TK0001 said:

So you're listening to the most extreme views and painting all of the left with the same brush.

Dems are catering to the loudest voices, the same way you're defining the entire left based on those same voices. You don't speak for "mainstream liberals" because the loudest voices, which is all you pay attention to, are on the fringes.

It's funny you can be so bold to define what mainstream conservatives stand for, when if you listen to CNN and knew nothing better, you would equate conservatives with racism and hatred of the environment. We view each other as caricatures and not real people.

And by extreme views you mean reality.  I deal in reality. 

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think you are wrong about "tim". I think he posts forthrightly and has some interesting positions, while I do not always agree with him I think he and I just see the world differently.

I might suggest that if his positions were right then Baltimore, Chicago and New York would be heaven on earth.....and people would not be fleeing these localities for areas where conservative policies are more prevalent.

But that aside, Democrat policies are based on the same failed policies as though of Mao, North Korea, Venezuela and even Cambodia.  They presume to be able to change human behaviors, and they are wrong on that.....as were their totalitarian ancestors. I just wish their eyes were more open to this. 

First off thanks for believing I’m honest. I think you are too but I simply don’t understand how you can possibly believe what you do. 

Baltimore, Chicago, New York and other large cities are filled with many poor people huddled together. It will never be heaven on Earth in any of those places. We can try, and should try, to make things better. 

There are no Democratic policies based on the totalitarian regimes you mentioned. Liberalism does not have Communist ancestors- any more than conservatism has Nazi ancestors. This is the sort of nonsense that both sides are pushing and it’s very damaging to the country. 
 

John Stewart used to promote a saying “I may disagree with you but I don’t think you’re Hitler”. We need to get back to this. 

[TK0001 97]

4 minutes ago, jonmx said:

And by extreme views you mean reality.  I deal in reality. 

Okay. So the reality of conservatives is they all hate non-whites and are fake-Christians and want to see the world covered in oil.

This is fun.

[RLLD 3,588]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well if your purpose is to water down the term so much as to make it meaningless then you’ve done a good job. 
 

In the 1950s, the FBI visited most movie studios in Hollywood along with most universities and pressured those in charge to fire anyone suspected of being a “red”. Many innocent people had their lives ruined. That’s far worse government pressure than anything you’re referencing going on now. But guess what? It still wasn’t Fascism. Fascism isn’t subtle, it isn’t underhanded, it doesn’t creep up as a “slippery slope”. It appears and seized power over the state. It’s never hidden. 

I am gratified that you see and agree that government involvement is not acceptable, we have common ground on this point. 

Facism, at its core, is predicated on an intrinsic belief in human inequality.  You might notice that this is a core tenet of the modern Democrat party in everything they do and say.  But there is a little more:

•  rejecting individual rights, civil liberties, free enterprise and democracy
  • This is also a core tenet for the modern Democrat party as they elevate group over the individual, seek to restrict the voices of conservatives and have moved aggressively to nationalize things such as healthcare; and while they decry Democracy in practice they prefer to dilute the conservative positions at every turn
• exclusion of certain groups, often through violence
  • We saw the misuse of the group named "antifa" to hide the sinister movement to crush political opponents through the degradation of local systems; violence is a key tool for the modern Democrat, both in actual outcomes as well as threats 
• nationalism that seeks to expand the nation's influence and power
  • Where the Republicans were working to avoid glocal military engagement, for Democrats war is essential and always something they will turn to for economic and glocal power overreach

 

[RLLD 3,588]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

First off thanks for believing I’m honest. I think you are too but I simply don’t understand how you can possibly believe what you do. 

Baltimore, Chicago, New York and other large cities are filled with many poor people huddled together. It will never be heaven on Earth in any of those places. We can try, and should try, to make things better. 

There are no Democratic policies based on the totalitarian regimes you mentioned. Liberalism does not have Communist ancestors- any more than conservatism has Nazi ancestors. This is the sort of nonsense that both sides are pushing and it’s very damaging to the country. 
 

John Stewart used to promote a saying “I may disagree with you but I don’t think you’re Hitler”. We need to get back to this. 

For now we can agree to disagree, but the conversation should go on. I surmise there is much I can still learn

[The Real timschochet 3,326]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I am gratified that you see and agree that government involvement is not acceptable, we have common ground on this point. 

Facism, at its core, is predicated on an intrinsic belief in human inequality.  You might notice that this is a core tenet of the modern Democrat party in everything they do and say.  But there is a little more:

•  rejecting individual rights, civil liberties, free enterprise and democracy
  • This is also a core tenet for the modern Democrat party as they elevate group over the individual, seek to restrict the voices of conservatives and have moved aggressively to nationalize things such as healthcare; and while they decry Democracy in practice they prefer to dilute the conservative positions at every turn
• exclusion of certain groups, often through violence
  • We saw the misuse of the group named "antifa" to hide the sinister movement to crush political opponents through the degradation of local systems; violence is a key tool for the modern Democrat, both in actual outcomes as well as threats 
• nationalism that seeks to expand the nation's influence and power
  • Where the Republicans were working to avoid glocal military engagement, for Democrats war is essential and always something they will turn to for economic and glocal power overreach

 

Of the three items you mention here, the only one that is the real threat to modern day America is nationalism, and that’s not coming from Democrats. 

[jonmx 1,766]

42 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Since I'm a a big believer in not saying anything, if you don't have anything nice to say, I'm not going to tell you what I honestly think about your post. 

Oh please tell me.   Coming from you it will reinforce knowing that I am correct. 

[GutterBoy 2,539]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

•  rejecting individual rights, civil liberties, free enterprise and democracy

 

I still can't believe the democrats got rid of federal protection of abortion.  Facists.