Guns: The No. 1 cause of death for U.S. children

[GutterBoy 2,899]

9 minutes ago, RLLD said:

What is that reason? 

Accuracy, speed, firepower, etc

[RLLD 4,231]

7 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Accuracy, speed, firepower, etc

The AR accuracy is in distance, there is no advantage to using it tactically indoors, in fact it is a disadvantage, hence the creation of the carbine to address that deficieny.  It fires no fast than any other semi-auto. Its firepower is not superior to even a glock, the main advantage would be the tumble effect fro, the .223/.556 round.  But that only helps when you have an enemy of some physical prowess.  

There is a reason they will buy other weaponry. If they really wanted to have a weapon that delivered on what you posted they would, and some have, choose the Heckler & Koch MP7,  lwrc M6 PSD(essentially the M4 carbine), maybe the kriss vector or perhaps the fnp90.....

Someone skilled in close quarters would never purposely choose the AR for that action.

[MDC 7,434]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:44 PM, League Champion said:

YOU ARE 100% WRONG. YOUR LINK IS BS. 

I was pretty surprised to read that it’s true:

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/07/fact-check-firearms-leading-cause-death-children/7529783001/

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The AR accuracy is in distance, there is no advantage to using it tactically indoors, in fact it is a disadvantage, hence the creation of the carbine to address that deficieny.  It fires no fast than any other semi-auto. Its firepower is not superior to even a glock, the main advantage would be the tumble effect fro, the .223/.556 round.  But that only helps when you have an enemy of some physical prowess.  

There is a reason they will buy other weaponry. If they really wanted to have a weapon that delivered on what you posted they would, and some have, choose the Heckler & Koch MP7,  lwrc M6 PSD, maybe the kriss vector or perhaps the fnp90.....

Someone skilled in close quarters would never purposely choose the AR for that action.

I was thinking the H&K MP5.  Maybe because I have familiarity.  I might favor a bullpup shotgun supplemented by two glock model 22s, fourth generation.  The first for raw havoc and probably loaded with triple aught.  The later for clean up.  Classroonm distances are not great.  Those would be my tools of choice. For a cafeteria or gymnasium where the distances might be a bit greater a carbine, I think.  The AR 15 might be good for a school playground, though even there the carbine would remain my weapon of choice.   Large sports fields or parking lots of large high schools, now one is getting to spaces where the AR 15 might become advantegeous.

[Reality 3,121]

7 minutes ago, MDC said:

I was pretty surprised to read that it’s true:

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/07/fact-check-firearms-leading-cause-death-children/7529783001/

Like I said, we treat 19 year olds as children, may as well include them...

Researchers at the Rockefeller Institute of Government, Leigh Wedenoja and Jaclyn Schildkraut, used CDC data, and found that if "children" are defined as people 19 and under

[RLLD 4,231]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

I was thinking the H&K MP5.  Maybe because I have familiarity.  I might favor a bullpup shotgun supplemented by two glock model 22s, fourth generation.  The first for raw havoc and probably loaded with triple aught.  The later for clean up.  Classroonm distances are not great.  Those would be my tools of choice. For a cafeteria or gymnasium where the distances might be a bit greater a carbine, I think.  The AR 15 might be good for a school playground, though even there the carbine would remain my weapon of choice.   Large sports fields or parking lots of large high schools, now one is getting to spaces where the AR 15 might become advantegeous.

I would not contest any of these assertions. We have to allow that most of the weapons we might discuss can trace their roots back to the platform of the AR10/AR15.  The primary variation between these and their military equivalents will be the selectable fire option.

My stance remains, the AR is not well suited to CQC, the M16 also was not.  This was known way back to just after WW1 when the carbine was introduced to address those deficiencies.

If you give me a team armed with say the Heckler & Koch HK416 and then give another similar team the AR15, my team will win.....in a close combat scenario. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,446]

1 minute ago, Reality said:

Like I said, we treat 19 year olds as children, may as well include them...

Researchers at the Rockefeller Institute of Government, Leigh Wedenoja and Jaclyn Schildkraut, used CDC data, and found that if "children" are defined as people 19 and under

. Now they care. Where they been? 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I would not contest any of these assertions. We have to allow that most of the weapons we might discuss can trace their roots back to the platform of the AR10/AR15.  The primary variation between these and their military equivalents will be the selectable fire option.

My stance remains, the AR is not well suited to CQC, the M16 also was not.  This was known way back to just after WW1 when the carbine was introduced to address those deficiencies.

If you give me a team armed with say the Heckler & Koch HK416 and then give another similar team the AR15, my team will win.....in a close combat scenario. 

 

If its good enough for the Seals and the Norweigans its good enough for me.  I think maybe the Germans and the French use it as well.  For all I know it may be standard for most of the Nato countries.

[RLLD 4,231]

3 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

If its good enough for the Seals and the Norweigans its good enough for me.  I think maybe the Germans and the French use it as well.  For all I know it may be standard for most of the Nato countries.

Agree,  Conversley, if we are in more open range and I need to hold a fight at 400-800 yards, I am taking that AR ......

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

11 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I would not contest any of these assertions. We have to allow that most of the weapons we might discuss can trace their roots back to the platform of the AR10/AR15.  The primary variation between these and their military equivalents will be the selectable fire option.

My stance remains, the AR is not well suited to CQC, the M16 also was not.  This was known way back to just after WW1 when the carbine was introduced to address those deficiencies.

If you give me a team armed with say the Heckler & Koch HK416 and then give another similar team the AR15, my team will win.....in a close combat scenario. 

 

Even the winner would regret the encounter, likely.

[Strike 5,553]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

In previously unreleased interviews, police who responded to the Robb Elementary shooting told investigators they were cowed by the shooter’s military-style rifle. This drove their decision to wait for a Border Patrol SWAT team to engage him, which took more than an hour.

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/03/20/uvalde-shooting-police-ar-15/

Wrong again pig focker. Your sorry ass doesn't know when to shut up.

That story doesn't change anything.  I was responding to this post:

Quote

In uvalde the cops on scene early at handguns and were too scared to go in because he had a rifle.

OMG he had a rifle!!!!  Those cops were trained to deal with this situation.  IIRC they had actually had that training not long before this incident so it should have been fresh in their minds.  As I said:

Quote

They were just a bunch of pooseys.   You don't think they had rifles in their cars if they wanted them?

And, if you want, I'll go find the quotes from the cops who WANTED to go in but were prevented from doing so by their CO.  Or do you want the one about the Mom who went in anyways to save her kids?  She didn't get killed the way the poosey's in your story said they would if they went in.  I mean seriously, one of the cops in your story says they didn't have "enough" ballistic vests.  I assume he means bullet proof vest there.  But they didn't need "enough."  They just needed SOME and send in the cops who had them.  And you conveniently ignored my point that they had rifles too, and more of them.  So, yeah, you cherry picked a story with quotes from the poosey's too afraid to go in.  But I can find others of the cops who were hamstrung by the poosey's.  I'm not surprised you'd side with the poosey's though, Racist Pedo focker.

[RLLD 4,231]

Just now, Engorgeous George said:

Even the winner would regret the encounter, likely.

True 

You have to know going in it will be messy. Expect to bleed a little. Once you are there, it is what it is....

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Agree,  Conversley, if we are in more open range and I need to hold a fight at 400-800 yards, I am taking that AR ......

With the advance of years having gripped me by the balls, 800 yards is a fanciful distance now.  I suppose I can still get out there with a bit of refresher, but it gets expensive refreshing that skill.  More economical of course for .223 than say .308, 30.06 or .338 lapua which are in my safe, but most good shooters have to shoot on the government's dime.  When I sight things in before the fall it is now at 200 yards most commonly or 250.  For antelope I sight in at 300 yards as they tend to stay pretty far out there. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

True 

You have to know going in it will be messy. Expect to bleed a little. Once you are there, it is what it is....

I am grateful there are men who take that upon themselves.  Seems like soon they may become so rare they will seem just a memory.

[RLLD 4,231]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

With the advance of years having gripped me by the balls, 800 yards is a fanciful distance now.  I suppose I can still get out there with a bit of refresher, but it gets expensive refreshing that skill.  More economical of course for .223 than say .308, 30.06 or .338 lapua which are in my safe, but most good shooters have to shoot on the government's dime.  When I sight things in before the fall it is now at 200 yards most commonly or 250.  For antelope I sight in at 300 yards as they tend to stay pretty far out there. 

We would qualify on a 500 yard course with the standard M16, but we could practice at 800 with it.  You had to have some skills to do 800.  We qualified with the Barrett light on a 1000 yard course, stationary and moving targets as well. 

Though, my favorites were the pop-up range and combat town stuff.....

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

Actually its a nice spring day here with little wind.  I might just have to get to the range.  I wonder if it is open on good friday.  Seems to me they are open 365, but maybe i should look them up before going.

[Strike 5,553]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

In previously unreleased interviews, police who responded to the Robb Elementary shooting told investigators they were cowed by the shooter’s military-style rifle. This drove their decision to wait for a Border Patrol SWAT team to engage him, which took more than an hour.

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/03/20/uvalde-shooting-police-ar-15/

Wrong again pig focker. Your sorry ass doesn't know when to shut up.

Here you go, Pedo Racist:

https://www.insider.com/texas-police-prevented-federal-agents-stopping-gunman-uvalde-school-report-2022-5

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/17/law-enforcement-failure-uvalde-shooting-investigation/

Bunch of poosey's led by the biggest poosey who prevented a more timely response.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

We would qualify on a 500 yard course with the standard M16, but we could practice at 800 with it.  You had to have some skills to do 800.  We qualified with the Barrett light on a 1000 yard course, stationary and moving targets as well. 

Though, my favorites were the pop-up range and combat town stuff.....

The Barret makes me think of the time our officers were evaluating it at 1000 yeards.  Very dry grass out there , and beyond.  We ended up having to call the fire department and request their brush truck.  The guys got mad when they could not meet the accuracy of my Sako.  I wonder what a single round of .50 caliber goes for today.  I will have to look.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,446]

Maggie’s Drawers! 

[TimHauck 2,878]

40 minutes ago, Reality said:

Like I said, we treat 19 year olds as children, may as well include them...

Researchers at the Rockefeller Institute of Government, Leigh Wedenoja and Jaclyn Schildkraut, used CDC data, and found that if "children" are defined as people 19 and under

In 2020, the leading cause of death among children ages one through 18 involved a firearm. There were 3,219 such deaths in 2020, followed by motor vehicle traffic deaths, of which there were 2,882. 

[RLLD 4,231]

11 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

The Barret makes me think of the time our officers were evaluating it at 1000 yeards.  Very dry grass out there , and beyond.  We ended up having to call the fire department and request their brush truck.  The guys got mad when they could not meet the accuracy of my Sako.  I wonder what a single round of .50 caliber goes for today.  I will have to look.

Everything is relevant. I could outshoot a Barret using a simple Remington with a .65 creedmoor in high winds, because the smaller round had better velocity and performed better in less favorable conditions. It really is an art. 

[MLCKAA 574]

6 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

I wonder how many said it was the right decision their mother's didn't kill them. 

 

I have always said the quickest way to end an abortion debate and stump pro-abortion people is to ask them if they wish their mother had aborted them.

[MDC 7,434]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

Like I said, we treat 19 year olds as children, may as well include them...

Researchers at the Rockefeller Institute of Government, Leigh Wedenoja and Jaclyn Schildkraut, used CDC data, and found that if "children" are defined as people 19 and under

At the end of my link it says it’s the leading cause among 1 and 18 y/o’s. You and Tardcore lose again.

Quote

Our ruling

Schumer claimed that the leading cause of death among children is a firearm. 

Among children between the ages of one and 18, and ages one and 19, this is true, based on several analyses of CDC data, the leading source for data regarding causes of death.

[seafoam1 3,031]

55 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

I have always said the quickest way to end an abortion debate and stump pro-abortion people is to ask them if they wish their mother had aborted them.

No matter what side a person is on when it comes to abortion, this is a question that is always seemingly avoided by the pro death group. 

This applies to everyone. Including those success stories we often hear about black people who came from broken homes or hardened areas that are so often highlighted when it comes to blacks persevering and making something of themselves. We hear these stories all the time, even in commercials that promote support of black people. 

You will hear of a black entertainer/singer/scientist/student/etc that loves to talk about how tough their past was and then how they made it "against all odds" and they say that these kids today can be "anything they want to be" if they just apply their minds to it. Yet, they also support abortion and make it all the more about the mother and her feelings. They also never talk about the mothers feelings the night she decided to get drunk and get laid because she was horny and didn't have the time or concern about preventing the pregnancy.

How come that is rarely talked about other than some sweeping generalization that for some reason birth control can't be had? Some stupid shlt right there. What's more difficult in life to get, birth control, or an abortion? Seems like all these people who "can't afford", or "don't have it readily available to them" always seem to have no issues finding abortion clinics like they are on every corner.  

When it comes to higher levels of discussion, those who are pro abortion keep the topic as base as possible and won't range into anything beyond it a mother's decision to choose to kill their kid or not. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

Maybe we should be celebrating that other causes of death have been driven down to the point where this is now the case.

[Strike 5,553]

5 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Maybe we should be celebrating that other causes of death have been driven down to the point where this is now the case.

Maybe, and maybe we should be talking about actual numbers with context.  There will ALWAYS be a #1 cause of death for any demographic.  The questions are what are those numbers and are they acceptable to a free society, and what would that society have to give up for them to be reduced further.   But the libs never want to have those discussions.   Because their end goal, in this case anyways, is the eradication of all guns.  One gun/type of gun at a time.

[Reality 3,121]

21 minutes ago, MDC said:

At the end of my link it says it’s the leading cause among 1 and 18 y/o’s. You and Tardcore lose again.

Odd flex, at what point is someone considered an adult?

[seafoam1 3,031]

When did 18 year olds become considered children?

And why do some people keep blaming guns instead of people for the cause of death of others? If a gun sits in a drawer for 100 years and it is never used once, how many people does it kill? 

And what ever happened to that dude on the movie set who shot someone because they didn't know what the fock they were doing with the gun and went against all basic rules on the set? 

 

[MDC 7,434]

Just now, Reality said:

Odd flex, at what point is someone considered an adult?

20 according to the CDC. But their data says guns are the leading cause of death for children 1-18. The link explains why they don’t count birth to 1, if you ever get around to reading it.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,446]

3 minutes ago, Reality said:

Odd flex, at what point is someone considered an adult?

[seafoam1 3,031]

7 minutes ago, Reality said:

Odd flex, at what point is someone considered an adult?

They don't care. It's 17/18 in reality, but that doesn't help their weak arguments. 

They like to quote organizations like the CDC thinking that statistics aren't used by these organizations to bolster their self worth and make arguments to get what they want. Liberals are stupid and don't think people see through them.

[Reality 3,121]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

When did 18 year olds become considered children?

And why do some people keep blaming guns instead of people for the cause of death of others? If a gun sits in a drawer for 100 years and it is never used once, how many people does it kill? 

And what ever happened to that dude on the movie set who shot someone because they didn't know what the fock they were doing with the gun and went against all basic rules on the set? 

 

I'm thinking the definition will change from 1-26 at some point, since that's when kids are covered under their parents insurance.

Will somebody think of the kids!

You and I know why they include the data from full grown adults. It skews the numbers, only complete focking retards don't understand that. Hence the comments.

[MDC 7,434]

13 minutes ago, Reality said:

You and I know why they include the data from full grown adults. 

Because that’s what the CDC usually does, since babies 0-1 have mortality rates from things that only affect infants, like SIDS? 

That or the CDC just wants to make young people getting shot look bad. 

 

[Reality 3,121]

When using MDC's link, you can adjust the data without 18 year olds included. The number of firearm deaths drops from 3219 to 2270. 

Interesting... @MDC Thanks for providing the link needed to look at data for actual children. Very beneficial.

Good looking out bud, appreciate ya.

[MDC 7,434]

Just now, Reality said:

When using MDC's link, you can adjust the data without 18 year olds included. The number of firearm deaths drops from 3219 to 2270. 

Interesting... @MDC Thanks for providing the link needed to look at data for actual children. Very beneficial.

Good looking out bud, appreciate ya.

As I keep saying, the CDC defines children as ages 1-19 but firearm deaths are the leading cause from 1-18 too. I’m glad you finally got around to reading the article after forming opinions about it though.  

[seafoam1 3,031]

8 minutes ago, Reality said:

 I'm thinking the definition will change from 1-26 at some point, since that's when kids are covered under their parents insurance.

Will somebody think of the kids!

You and I know why they include the data from full grown adults. It skews the numbers, only complete focking retards don't understand that. Hence the comments.

And here is where it gets interesting. Why do they bring up "kids" in the first place? Because that evokes, at least in their irrational minds, helplessness, innocent humans being the victims of the guns. But they are being killed by other kids. Not so innocent anymore. Does the CDC decide who gets charged as an adult in the courts?

[seafoam1 3,031]

4 minutes ago, Reality said:

When using MDC's link, you can adjust the data without 18 year olds included. The number of firearm deaths drops from 3219 to 2270. 

Interesting... @MDC Thanks for providing the link needed to look at data for actual children. Very beneficial.

Good looking out bud, appreciate ya.

At 18, last I heard they get tried as adults in court. I wonder if the CDC ignores that? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,446]

15 minutes ago, MDC said:

As I keep saying, the CDC defines children as ages 1-19 but firearm deaths are the leading cause from 1-18 too. I’m glad you finally got around to reading the article after forming opinions about it though.  

. Ketchup is a vegetable! 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

50 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

. Ketchup is a vegetable! 

So nearly too is Fetterman.  Sad as he might have had a nice career had the Adams Family ever gotten rebooted for T.V.  Guy is a natural to play Uncle Fester.

[TimHauck 2,878]

3 hours ago, Reality said:

When using MDC's link, you can adjust the data without 18 year olds included. The number of firearm deaths drops from 3219 to 2270. 

Interesting... @MDC Thanks for providing the link needed to look at data for actual children. Very beneficial.

Good looking out bud, appreciate ya.

And it’s still the leading cause (motor vehicle still 2nd at 2,159), so you’re still wrong.