Can anyone say how the whole "January 6 thing" was worse than the 2020 riots?

[BuckSwope 654]

15 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

Yes.

Dude, unless he grabbed a bullhorn and yelled "hey everybody, march down and storm the capital" these clowns are just going to play that "but he didn't SAY that" dumb game.    Anybody with half a brain and a nugget of honestly can say we all know what he was doing and what he wanted to happen on 1/6.    

Maybe it's a decent compromise to say that at the very least he had within his power the ability to get them to not do it and didn't.  Is that a fairer statement for both sides, maybe? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

1 minute ago, BuckSwope said:

Dude, unless he grabbed a bullhorn and yelled "hey everybody, march down and storm the capital" these clowns are just going to play that "but he didn't SAY that" dumb game.    Anybody with half a brain and a nugget of honestly can say we all know what he was doing and what he wanted to happen on 1/6.    

Maybe it's a decent compromise to say that at the very least he had within his power the ability to get them to not do it and didn't.  Is that a fairer statement for both sides, maybe? 

Wow. You didn’t take as many words as you usually do to be wrong. Nice work. 

[squistion 2,201]

35 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

George Floyd died from covid. 

George Floyd tested positive for coronavirus, but it had nothing to do with his death, autopsy shows 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/health/george-floyd-coronavirus-autopsy/index.html

[BunnysBastatrds 2,442]

No, but your face is.

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

3 hours ago, Gepetto said:

How come when the cops kill a criminal, not following commands, evading arrest, the cops go to prison; but when the US Capitol Security cop kills an unarmed woman, crickets?

 

IMHO, it's just best for all Conservatives and all Republicans to stop talking about J6. Avoid the subject in total. 

There is a double standard at work, and it's not fair, but it should be accepted as the current operational standard. Don't focus on that it's happening as much as accept it's happening and then deploy countertactics. So, for example, instead of discussing the double standard, what happened to InBev/Anheuser Busch is a good test case. Demonetize everything woke. 

I recognize some things you can't avoid. Only a small number of major corporations own grocery stores for example. You need to eat. You need to feed your kids. So boycotting something like that isn't going to be feasible. But anything non critical though should be considered. For example, as soon as Nike did their idiotic Colin Kapernick ad campaign, that's a good time to cut them loose. You can buy other shoes. Something like that. 

Two things can be true at the same time. 

1) Those who breached the Capitol behaved in an indefensible manner. I won't compare it to anything else. Nothing that happened that day helped the Conservative base. In fact, it's something that can be used as a blank check to attack Conservatives non stop. 

2) That many of those involved in the breach were also given punishments out of line against that double standard. In effect, a form of political persecution for many. 

Conservatives have no margin of error and should operate that way in the future. Don't give the radical left anything to use against you. This is why Trump is so damaging to the Conservative base. He's a free blank check to blame everything on. Let's say Trump was abducted by aliens today and would never return. What's left for the DNC? Once you remove "But Trump", there is nothing left but their endless failures. 

Talking about it does nothing good for Conservatives. Any comparisons in public does nothing helpful for Conservatives. Say little and vote with your wallet. You'd be surprised at how many "woke" people would break if that happened. 

There is enough policy failure, scandal, corruption and incompetence from Team Blue and the DNC to roll forward against them WITHOUT "Whataboutism"  Activist radical leftists use "But Trump" because they have nothing left. Conservatives don't need to scrap the bottom of the barrel that low. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

11 minutes ago, squistion said:

George Floyd tested positive for coronavirus, but it had nothing to do with his death, autopsy shows 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/health/george-floyd-coronavirus-autopsy/index.html

Ah thats right, it was the fatal levels of Fentanyl on top of covid. 

[jerryskids 6,799]

3 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

But not by the right, correct?  That's the difference, and that's my point.   So after years of railing on them, like I said the tone of your post and many others I see comes off just as that - but the libs did it, how could you possibly expect us to react any differently?   Spare me.  I will stand by my statements earlier.    Feel free to continue to point one justifying the other, I will continue to call bs and point out the hypocrisy.  

 

 

I'll say again, I'm not talking about the super intelligent on either side.  And "accepted and lauded" means by the media that these folks were exposed to during the summer of love.

I've said this before but I'll repeat it:  when I started my career in engineering, my company had a maniacal approach to security, including checking all bags leaving the building (this was 1989).  The reason was that somebody had stolen very valuable proprietary secrets.  More importantly, they took this person to court, and they lost.  Why?  Because the defendant showed that the company had not sufficiently exhibited behaviors that indicated that they cared about protecting such secrets.  In other words, because they did not maniacally check, they did not behave as if it was important.  The relevance here is:  in the eyes of the law, if you do not behave as if a rule is important, you can't expect people to follow it.

There are many other examples.  One off the top of my head that occurred locally was the Garcia's Mexican chain suing a little hole in the wall stand called Garcia's for trademark infringement.  Their reasoning was that while they posed no real threat to their business, they had to show a pattern of protecting their trademark.

I'm not saying that it absolves all behavior, but if you do not think that it was reasonable for some folks to believe, after the Summer of Love, that the appropriate reaction was to walk into the Capitol... that's on you.

[BuckSwope 654]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I'll say again, I'm not talking about the super intelligent on either side.  And "accepted and lauded" means by the media that these folks were exposed to during the summer of love.

I've said this before but I'll repeat it:  when I started my career in engineering, my company had a maniacal approach to security, including checking all bags leaving the building (this was 1989).  The reason was that somebody had stolen very valuable proprietary secrets.  More importantly, they took this person to court, and they lost.  Why?  Because the defendant showed that the company had not sufficiently exhibited behaviors that indicated that they cared about protecting such secrets.  In other words, because they did not maniacally check, they did not behave as if it was important.  The relevance here is:  in the eyes of the law, if you do not behave as if a rule is important, you can't expect people to follow it.

There are many other examples.  One off the top of my head that occurred locally was the Garcia's Mexican chain suing a little hole in the wall stand called Garcia's for trademark infringement.  Their reasoning was that while they posed no real threat to their business, they had to show a pattern of protecting their trademark.

I'm not saying that it absolves all behavior, but if you do not think that it was reasonable for some folks to believe, after the Summer of Love, that the appropriate reaction was to walk into the Capitol... that's on you.

It is on me, and we will just disagree on key points like the bolded.   

I agree it's human nature to get caught up and do some things.  I just don't think it's a reasonable or intelligent response - again, the key for me is I'd guess damn near every person in that capital hated the people on the left for destroying their country.    I'm also not talking about how the law sees these things, that's a separate discussion.    I am speaking directly about the people's choices that day, and you and others on the right ability to post so often what sounds to me like justification for actions that you hated from the left.   

Using your example from your company it would be more like if after all that, hating that person getting away with it, complaining about it - you get caught stealing some documents.  You seem to be arguing that to you that is a reasonable response.  Nope.   

To me a reasonable response is more like learning a lesson from the summer of love, realizing those people were duped (the right loves to point out when the other side's politicians and media are manipulating them), and choosing to not act that way or excusing those who did. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

The left recognizes that the summer 2020 riots were very bad and condemns them. It makes no excuses for them. It also sees Jan. 6 for the violent, disgraceful insurrection that it was. 

The right catastrophizes the summer 2020 riots to the point at which they claimed entire cities were burned down, which they weren't. They go on to whitewash and minimize Jan. 6, framing it as a peaceful selfie opportunity.

A person with intelligence and common sense can separate the two and not need to make comparisons for idiotic, ignorant purposes.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

39 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

The left recognizes that the summer 2020 riots were very bad and condemns them. It makes no excuses for them. It also sees Jan. 6 for the violent, disgraceful insurrection that it was. 

The right catastrophizes the summer 2020 riots to the point at which they claimed entire cities were burned down, which they weren't. They go on to whitewash and minimize Jan. 6, framing it as a peaceful selfie opportunity.

A person with intelligence and common sense can separate the two and not need to make comparisons for idiotic, ignorant purposes.

 

The cities the riots were in are doing great. Nike just closed their flagship store in Portland due to theft. Austin is a mess, as is Seattle and Minneapolis. The Capitol was open for business the afternoon of the 6th. 

[Pimpadeaux 2,406]

11 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The cities the riots were in are doing great. Nike just closed their flagship store in Portland due to theft. Austin is a mess, as is Seattle and Minneapolis. The Capitol was open for business the afternoon of the 6th. 

None of this takes away anything from the horrific Jan. 6 insurrection. Austin is one of the fastest-growing cities in the country. You ever been there? I've lived there and been there many times recently. You already know this because you've done creepy extensive research on public records

 I don't particularly like it and believe it's overrated, but it's a great and unique American city.

I went to Seattle not long ago, and it was fantastic. Portland looked like a craphole to me, and I've never been to Minneapolis.

No city is perfect, and it's not like red cities are kicking ass in the awesome department. America's most red city is Jacksonville, Miss., where a quarter of the population is considered impoverished. On this list, it ranks No. 1 worst city in the United States:

https://www.have-clothes-will-travel.com/10-of-the-worst-cities-in-the-u-s-according-to-americans/#:~:text=According to a wanderer%2C Jackson,deadliest cities in the US.

But thanks for proving my point on you focusing in on and catastrophizing the negative things that support your MAGAturd paradigm while continuing to whitewash Jan. 6. 

You should stop making up stuff and actually do some research.

Pimpadeaux wins again.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

Police in Austin Texas have told robbery victims to stop calling 911. The police can’t respond. Just call 311 and make a report. Yeah, Austin is doing great. Lol. Rusty Fockin lives in the state and he’s clueless 

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

That there is a systemic problem of cops killing unarmed, complicit black suspects.  Is this a trick question?  

No. 
 

Black Lives Matter is about a whole lot more than that specific point. It’s about the overall treatment of African-Americans in our society by the police and the justice system. It’s about white privilege. It’s about how angry conservatives like @jonmx whine and scream in blind denial every time this issue is raised. 

But to your specific point, there are enough instances of blacks people being unlawfully murdered by police to make it a systemic problem of bigotry. And that’s true whether you accept it or not. 

[jonmx 2,429]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. 
 

Black Lives Matter is about a whole lot more than that specific point. It’s about the overall treatment of African-Americans in our society by the police and the justice system. It’s about white privilege. It’s about how angry conservatives like @jonmx whine and scream in blind denial every time this issue is raised. 

But to your specific point, there are enough instances of blacks people being unlawfully murdered by police to make it a systemic problem of bigotry. And that’s true whether you accept it or not. 

It is whole basis is to stir the blacks into a frenzy over lies and create mass riots.  White priviledge is non-existence.  The priviledge class now are leftists who support our government movement towards tyranny and the destruction of our Constitution.  Idiots like yourself who love lockdowns and who cheerlead the rounding up of conservatives over the January 6th lies. 

Our justice system is completely broke with corrupt law enforcement angencies and prosecutors.  We have two justice systems.  One for conservatives whose even exercise of speech has been criminalize and one for leftists who barely get a slap on the wrist even for murder.  Constitution loving media outlets are getting raided and sued out of existence.   Self-defense by conservatives is deem criminal.  Free speech is being rebranded as dangerous misinformation.  

What leftist bastards are doing to the country is disgusting.  Free speech is dying and you support it and can't even see the media has become nothing but a propaganda tool for our government.   Open your focking eyes to the truth.  

[seafoam1 3,025]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. 
 

Black Lives Matter is about a whole lot more than that specific point. It’s about the overall treatment of African-Americans in our society by the police and the justice system. It’s about white privilege. It’s about how angry conservatives like @jonmx whine and scream in blind denial every time this issue is raised. 

But to your specific point, there are enough instances of blacks people being unlawfully murdered by police to make it a systemic problem of bigotry. And that’s true whether you accept it or not. 

 Give us the numbers. I gave them about 2019. 3 unjustified killings of blacks by police and all went to jail.

Now you.

[RLLD 4,230]

8 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

What is the “complete lie” that Black Lives Matter is based on? 

1) That anyone actually thinks they do not matter.

2) That police are somehow more mean to them than to anyone else.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

Remember when they flipped out if anyone said all lives matter? Nice movement you got going there. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

52 minutes ago, RLLD said:

1) That anyone actually thinks they do not matter.

This was always my problem with the movement.  We should all be able to agree that black lives matter, I don't need you to tell me that they matter, of course they do.

But over time I realized 2 things.  It's just a saying, and even though it's dumb, it should detract from the purpose to highlight how cops mistreat blacks.  And then more importantly, there actually are people that think that black lives don't matter, especially poor uneducated blacks that commit crimes 

[seafoam1 3,025]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

This was always my problem with the movement.  We should all be able to agree that black lives matter, I don't need you to tell me that they matter, of course they do.

But over time I realized 2 things.  It's just a saying, and even though it's dumb, it should detract from the purpose to highlight how cops mistreat blacks.  And then more importantly, there actually are people that think that black lives don't matter, especially poor uneducated blacks that commit crimes 

There are people that think a lot of lives don't matter. Including me.

[RLLD 4,230]

5 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

This was always my problem with the movement.  We should all be able to agree that black lives matter, I don't need you to tell me that they matter, of course they do.

But over time I realized 2 things.  It's just a saying, and even though it's dumb, it should detract from the purpose to highlight how cops mistreat blacks.  And then more importantly, there actually are people that think that black lives don't matter, especially poor uneducated blacks that commit crimes 

But cops do not mistreat blacks, that is also a lie.  Some bad cops cross the line, and they are dealt with.  It is no where near what the propoganda is selling....

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

How about how blacks treat cops? I guess they missed the talk. 

[seafoam1 3,025]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

But cops do not mistreat blacks, that is also a lie.  Some bad cops cross the line, and they are dealt with.  It is no where near what the propoganda is selling....

I gave detailed stats at one point on that. It all turned out to be a couple bad cops that went too far and they lost jobs and went to prison. These guys won't look into the details of it all or even look at whites killed by cops. 

It's a narrative.  And it's purposefully wrong. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

I’d say we have a chicken/ egg situation. 

[seafoam1 3,025]

So what was worse? The 2020 liberal riots or the capital selfiefest?

[BuckSwope 654]

29 minutes ago, RLLD said:

But cops do not mistreat blacks, that is also a lie.  Some bad cops cross the line, and they are dealt with.  It is no where near what the propoganda is selling....

I saw an interesting study out of TX a bit ago, and I need to look for it again to post.  

Their conclusion was not the same as bolded.  It showed death by cop is more likely for whites, but when it came to reports of abuse and assault, it was more common in the black population.  

 

[RLLD 4,230]

1 minute ago, BuckSwope said:

I saw an interesting study out of TX a bit ago, and I need to look for it again to post.  

Their conclusion was not the same as bolded.  It showed death by cop is more likely for whites, but when it came to reports of abuse and assault, it was more common in the black population.  

 

And the presumption is that this is a police-driven outcome, right?

[RLLD 4,230]

2 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I saw an interesting study out of TX a bit ago, and I need to look for it again to post.  

Their conclusion was not the same as bolded.  It showed death by cop is more likely for whites, but when it came to reports of abuse and assault, it was more common in the black population.  

 

 

[seafoam1 3,025]

5 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I saw an interesting study out of TX a bit ago, and I need to look for it again to post.  

Their conclusion was not the same as bolded.  It showed death by cop is more likely for whites, but when it came to reports of abuse and assault, it was more common in the black population.  

 

Because more blacks are violent and are schooled to fight against police.

Why do.you all try so hard to ignore black.violence?

[RLLD 4,230]

28 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

I gave detailed stats at one point on that. It all turned out to be a couple bad cops that went too far and they lost jobs and went to prison. These guys won't look into the details of it all or even look at whites killed by cops. 

It's a narrative.  And it's purposefully wrong. 

There are a few problems with the attempt at this narrative.

Simply blaming the police absolves the other party of any culpability....you see, its OK to accept and acknowledge the misdeeds of the other participant so long as the racial context lines up to the desired narrative.

This then makes the liberal folks feel really good about themselves.....but it does not help the impacted folks.....at all....failure to deal with the behavior ensures it is repeated...

So we set people up for ongoing misery as they continue to behave improperly, exposing themselves to negative outcomes over and over.

[BuckSwope 654]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

And the presumption is that this is a police-driven outcome, right?

I don't remember, and that's a reason I wanted to find it again.  That fact just stuck in my head.  

[5-Points 3,530]

11 hours ago, squistion said:

An attempted coup to prevent the lawful transfer of power is not the same as riots in response to local police murdering George Floyd.

First unarmed "attempted coup" in the history of ever and they nearly succeeded. Buncha badasses if you ask me. 

George Floyd was an out of shape poosay who couldn't handle his fentanyl. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Why do the two even need to be compared?  Two completely different events and both an embarrassment to our country.

[RLLD 4,230]

11 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I don't remember, and that's a reason I wanted to find it again.  That fact just stuck in my head.  

That appears to be the inference.  That the police are somehow treating only AA's differently.  We often hear "black and brown" as they seek to subsume more folks in the hope it bolsters their argument that it is skin color instead of behaviors.  The problem with that is many segments of darker complexion seem to not have the same problem.....it makes one wonder....why then is this widespread problem so focused?

Because it has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with culture. Within the AA community is a culture that hates authority, the restrictions of an organized society and behaves outside the common framework. It is celebrated in their art and allowed by liberal policy. Criminality is not a problem, and to deal with it forthrightly is somehow mean.

Oddly, the ongoing attempt to dillute the expectations for behavior by lowering standards due to "disproportionate impact" is an implicit acknowledgment that the AA culture is not maturing, it is retrograding. Rather than fix it, we lower the standards to avoid accountability toward it.

This, in liberal circles, is heralded as progress and help....but all it does is allow the situation to get worse, and harm good people who are avoiding it.

[BuckSwope 654]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

That appears to be the inference.  That the police are somehow treating only AA's differently.  We often hear "black and brown" as they seek to subsume more folks in the hope it bolsters their argument that it is skin color instead of behaviors.  The problem with that is many segments of darker complexion seem to not have the same problem.....it makes one wonder....why then is this widespread problem so focused?

Because it has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with culture. Within the AA community is a culture that hates authority, the restrictions of an organized society and behaves outside the common framework. It is celebrated in their art and allowed by liberal policy. Criminality is not a problem, and to deal with it forthrightly is somehow mean.

Oddly, the ongoing attempt to dillute the expectations for behavior by lowering standards due to "disproportionate impact" is an implicit acknowledgment that the AA culture is not maturing, it is retrograding. Rather than fix it, we lower the standards to avoid accountability toward it.

This, in liberal circles, is heralded as progress and help....but all it does is allow the situation to get worse, and harm good people who are avoiding it.

I think it has more to with our policing methods historically and still today.  I think there are real historical reasons where this distrust of police and resistance of authority is understandable.  Note I didn't say justifiable.  Like things I don't view this as racism, I see it as something that affects poor and high crime areas ...well which then affects the black community more.   

[BuckSwope 654]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why do the two even need to be compared?  Two completely different events and both an embarrassment to our country.

Uh, because sidez and tribes?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

28 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why do the two even need to be compared?  Two completely different events and both an embarrassment to our country.

Hot take! Everyone stop taking about it! 

[RLLD 4,230]

23 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

I think it has more to with our policing methods historically and still today.  I think there are real historical reasons where this distrust of police and resistance of authority is understandable.  Note I didn't say justifiable.  Like things I don't view this as racism, I see it as something that affects poor and high crime areas ...well which then affects the black community more.   

I think there is an argument to be made on that point. I do think methods should always be under review for improvement. And some cops definitely need refresher training. There are bad cops, and when we find them they should not enjoy protection.

If you decide to enter into your engagement with law enforcement based on previous experience, or some historical context, instead of approaching it as the current situation in isolation....you might have a negative outcome.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

13 hours ago, Gepetto said:

How come when the cops kill a criminal, not following commands, evading arrest, the cops go to prison; but when the US Capitol Security cop kills an unarmed woman, crickets?

Victim was on the "wrong side".

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

7 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

No. 
 

Black Lives Matter is about a whole lot more than that specific point. It’s about the overall treatment of African-Americans in our society by the police and the justice system. It’s about white privilege. It’s about how angry conservatives like @jonmx whine and scream in blind denial every time this issue is raised. 

But to your specific point, there are enough instances of blacks people being unlawfully murdered by police to make it a systemic problem of bigotry. And that’s true whether you accept it or not. 

You clearly do not understand the definition of the word "systemic".

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

15 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Hot take! Everyone stop taking about it! 

I didn't say there was an issue with talking about it.  All I'm saying is that they don't need to be compared to each other.  It's not a competition.  You can do ahead and make it something it's not though.  Enjoy.