War in Israel

[The Real timschochet 6,661]

44 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

If you had read what I've been saying, your leftist media masters want you to believe in the false moral equivalency that you so eagerly accept.  Part of doing this is playing up the "oh no the poor innocent Palestinians" while playing down the Israeli victims.  Putting up these posters does a small part to help offset the support in the MSM for Hamas, and evil organization that rapes and burns women and children.

The reason I keep saying that Hamas is evil and rapes and burns women and children is because they did, in fact, on purpose, go out and rape and burn women and children.  And every time I see you, Tim, Worms, General, or others with the "both sides do bad things" idiocy, or the "Israel shouldn't escalate because maybe Hamas will go away if they don't" lunacy, or the "if they kill Hamas they'll just recruit more, so they shouldn't kill Hamas$#!" ratardedness, I'm going to remind you that Hamas, on purpose, raped and burned women and children.  

Let’s break this down, because you continue to misunderstand me: 

1. I agree with you that the posters are important, that taking down the posters is abhorrent, and that doing so serves to dehumanize the victims (I’m not quite convinced that dehumanizing the victims is the PURPOSE of those tearing the posters down, mainly because I don’t believe they’ve thought that far ahead, but it is certainly the result.) 

2. There is no support within the MSM for Hamas. None. I challenge you to prove otherwise, 

3. The purpose of me pointing out that Israel does bad things is not to make a “both sides” argument. Let’s be absolutely clear: there is NOTHING that Israel could ever do that would make them the moral equivalent of Hamas. Hamas is evil. Israel, for most of its existence as a modern nation, have been the good guys. Which is why Israel should not do bad things and why we must point it out when they do. 

4. If Israel doesn’t escalate Hamas will not go away. I would never make such an absurd argument. Israel absolutely needs to escalate because Hamas needs to be destroyed. But I am not at all convinced that bombing Gaza or that a ground invasion of Gaza is the correct move here, I fear that it will make Israel less safe in the long run even if the current organization called Hamas is completely destroyed. I also don’t like the loss of innocent life that is necessarily involved. However, due to the nature of war I could get around that if I thought that ultimately such moves would make Israel safer. I don’t.

5. Ultimately Hamas can only be defeated when the Palestinian people are not so unhappy with their existence that they are willing to turn to extremism and evil because they are no other way out. This means we need to have a Palestinian state, prosperous, alongside Israel. Yes, the hated two state solution because it remains the ONLY solution. And we are moving away from it. 

6. Finally I have some very close Muslim friends. I have discussed this issue at length with them during the last 3 weeks. They take the opposite view from you and me as well; they believe that Israel is evil and they refuse to consider what Hamas has done. Like you they are ABSOLUTELY sure that they are morally correct. Like you they think I am a well meaning idiot on this issue. I bring this up only to point out that there is way too much moral certainty by people who refuse to consider the empathy of others, and I firmly believe this is a big part of the problem.  

[KSB2424 3,148]

26 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I’m saying you get a distorted sense of reality from this, and I’m right

Worms, X is he new public square. You seem to think all social media is a KKK Facebook group or some Reddit supergroup with a bunch of people and conspiracy theories. I have never had a Facebook account because I quickly saw neighbours getting in flame wars.  

X is very similar to this place and life itself.  You ignore all the BS best you can, you learn which ‘entities’ are truthful and worthy of their opinion over time.  I purposely follow MSNBC and CNN to hear what is normally the “other side” as well. 

I am on X and LinkedIn.  That’s it.  X is great, I follow all my sports teams and get real time news of injuries or new recruits in college. I follow most all of the major news outlets for breaking news or opinion.  I also follow a lot of comedians as they make funny content.  I follow my kids school and get a ton of info they share.  It’s great, but like anything in life you don’t believe everything you read, get secondary validation and over time learn what or who are trustworthy over time  

It’s almost 2024 bud.  People don’t read newspapers.  

And when I link an X post here, it’s of a video not just some random persons opinion.  It’s a video of something that happened, or maybe an interview or speech. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,280]

12 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I don't think we should declare war on Muslims, shut up.

Since when? The last time you addressed Islamic terrorism you did. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,280]

6 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Except we don’t know if it was a Muslim that killed this lady.  For example, as Gutter pointed out it was a Christian that killed the 6 year old kid for being Muslim.

I saw no mention of him being a Christian. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

10 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I saw no mention of him being a Christian. 

https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2023/10/17/wadea-palestinian-six-year-old-stabbed-chicago-catholic-muslim-246307

In an email to OSV News, the Diocese of Joliet, Illinois, said it had confirmed Czuba and his wife are members of St. Mary Immaculate Parish in Plainfield.

[jonnyutah 272]

19 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

There is no support within the MSM for Hamas. None. I challenge you to prove otherwise, 

Every single media member calling for a cease fire or reporting Hamas at their word supports them. 

You are all useful idiots to them. Which is hilarious when you consider how prevalent first cousin marriage is among Palestinians. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,280]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2023/10/17/wadea-palestinian-six-year-old-stabbed-chicago-catholic-muslim-246307

In an email to OSV News, the Diocese of Joliet, Illinois, said it had confirmed Czuba and his wife are members of St. Mary Immaculate Parish in Plainfield.

Now I saw mention of him being a Christian. Thank you. He’s not a very good one. But the scum that invaded Israel are top shelf Muslims. To a T. 

[RogerDodger 798]

29 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

2. There is no support within the MSM for Hamas. None. I challenge you to prove otherwise, 

Too easy. Some of them dont even try to hide it. 

Quote

At least six BBC reporters have been unofficially suspended following allegations that they had praised Hamas’ brutal attacks on Israel on social media, with multiple figures affiliated with its Arabic channel that the civilian victims shouldn’t be considered innocent civilians.

 

[KSB2424 3,148]

10 minutes ago, jonnyutah said:

Every single media member calling for a cease fire or reporting Hamas at their word supports them. 

You are all useful idiots to them. Which is hilarious when you consider how prevalent first cousin marriage is among Palestinians. 

Hamas paraglides in and seeks out civilians at a music festival.  Purposely attack families, going door to door.  Parading bloodied and raped women in the street.  Then run home and hide behind their civilians.  

And people immediately call for a cease fire.  For Israel not to act?  Seriously?  

Look, I don’t like any of this but one side is purposely targeting civilians; the other is targeting the enemy and there are civilian casualties as a result because they are used as shields. A huge distinction that is just glossed over. 

One may think that Palestinians have a right to all of that land.  It’s changed hands many times over time but I digress.  Even if you feel Palestine deserves that land any civilized person can see who are the savages playing dirty in this event.  

[jerryskids 6,734]

33 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Let’s break this down, because you continue to misunderstand me: 

1. I agree with you that the posters are important, that taking down the posters is abhorrent, and that doing so serves to dehumanize the victims (I’m not quite convinced that dehumanizing the victims is the PURPOSE of those tearing the posters down, mainly because I don’t believe they’ve thought that far ahead, but it is certainly the result.) 

2. There is no support within the MSM for Hamas. None. I challenge you to prove otherwise, 

3. The purpose of me pointing out that Israel does bad things is not to make a “both sides” argument. Let’s be absolutely clear: there is NOTHING that Israel could ever do that would make them the moral equivalent of Hamas. Hamas is evil. Israel, for most of its existence as a modern nation, have been the good guys. Which is why Israel should not do bad things and why we must point it out when they do. 

4. If Israel doesn’t escalate Hamas will not go away. I would never make such an absurd argument. Israel absolutely needs to escalate because Hamas needs to be destroyed. But I am not at all convinced that bombing Gaza or that a ground invasion of Gaza is the correct move here, I fear that it will make Israel less safe in the long run even if the current organization called Hamas is completely destroyed. I also don’t like the loss of innocent life that is necessarily involved. However, due to the nature of war I could get around that if I thought that ultimately such moves would make Israel safer. I don’t.

5. Ultimately Hamas can only be defeated when the Palestinian people are not so unhappy with their existence that they are willing to turn to extremism and evil because they are no other way out. This means we need to have a Palestinian state, prosperous, alongside Israel. Yes, the hated two state solution because it remains the ONLY solution. And we are moving away from it. 

6. Finally I have some very close Muslim friends. I have discussed this issue at length with them during the last 3 weeks. They take the opposite view from you and me as well; they believe that Israel is evil and they refuse to consider what Hamas has done. Like you they are ABSOLUTELY sure that they are morally correct. Like you they think I am a well meaning idiot on this issue. I bring this up only to point out that there is way too much moral certainty by people who refuse to consider the empathy of others, and I firmly believe this is a big part of the problem.  

I appreciate the response.  #2 has been addressed well by others.

#5, I don't get it.  A two state solution has been proposed, Palestinians have turned it down.  Hamas doesn't want it because they don't want land, they want to kill Jews, and having a land dispute helps them to rile their masses to support their raping and burning Israeli women and children.

#6, you aren't making another argument for moral relativism.  There is no moral relativism here, there is pure evil in Hamas.  The fact that your Muslim friends don't agree (and we see politicians like the Squad supporting Hamas) is why people are wary of Muslims.  You can call it racism or whatever you want, but immigration in the US works only if the people assimilate to our overriding values.  Your friends and people like them are anathema to our values.  You can't just add such people and expect the country to continue working.

I understand empathy, it is a large reason I had a successful sales career.  Empathy means understanding, not agreement.  I understand that people like your friends, and the Squad, have disgusting, amoral beliefs.

[Strike 5,441]

11 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Too easy. Some of them dont even try to hide it. 

 

CNN or MSNBC had to do that same last week.  Don't mind Tim.  He loves being ignorant.

[KSB2424 3,148]

14 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Too easy. Some of them dont even try to hide it. 

 

That was quick.  There are Ivy League professors saying they felt “Exhilarated” watching the paraglides roll in.  

BLM has tee shirts of Hamas Paraglider's. 

I honestly think some of these historically left leaning geeks can’t understand the company they keep and are trying their best to spin it and minimize best they can. 

[thegeneral 3,121]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah. We really ought to slow their roll. They may end up having terrorists willing to paraglide into Israel and butcher  people en masse. The next generation will be really ruthless.

It almost like decades of killing each other keeps the problem going. Weird.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

3 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

That was quick.  There are Ivy League professors saying they felt “Exhilarated” watching the paraglides roll in.  

BLM has tee shirts of Hamas Paraglider's. 

I honestly think some of these historically left leaning geeks can’t understand the company they keep and are trying their best to spin it and minimize best they can. 

Who is minimizing the Hamas attack?

[Strike 5,441]

3 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

It almost like decades of killing each other keeps the problem going. Weird.

There was an easy solution to that - the terrorists stop attacking Israel.  israel has NEVER started one of these conflicts.  If the terrorists just stopped then the back and forth killing would have stopped. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

16 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

It almost like decades of killing each other keeps the problem going. Weird.

People understand war and conflict, even in the Middle East where it happens more often than not.  The reason *this* event is different than others was the utter savagery on October 7th. 
 

[KSB2424 3,148]

24 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Who is minimizing the Hamas attack?

Ummmm not trying to name names or anything but if you spend three days arguing why it’s normal behaviour to tear down pictures of children HAMAS kidnapped and are doing God knows what too is probably a good start.  

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Ummmm not trying to name names or anything but if you spend three days arguing why it’s normal behaviour to tear down pictures of children HAMAS kidnapped and are doing God knows what too is probably a good start.  

I think your problem is that you expect everyone to think exactly like you, and when they don't then you can't understand that.  You have your opinion, and everyone else is the enemy.  Not a good way to go through life.

For the record, the Hamas attack was awful, Hamas is a disgusting terrorist organization, and Israel should retaliate.

But you think I support Hamas because you're not smart.

[The Real timschochet 6,661]

28 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I appreciate the response.  #2 has been addressed well by others.

#5, I don't get it.  A two state solution has been proposed, Palestinians have turned it down.  Hamas doesn't want it because they don't want land, they want to kill Jews, and having a land dispute helps them to rile their masses to support their raping and burning Israeli women and children.

#6, you aren't making another argument for moral relativism.  There is no moral relativism here, there is pure evil in Hamas.  The fact that your Muslim friends don't agree (and we see politicians like the Squad supporting Hamas) is why people are wary of Muslims.  You can call it racism or whatever you want, but immigration in the US works only if the people assimilate to our overriding values.  Your friends and people like them are anathema to our values.  You can't just add such people and expect the country to continue working.

I understand empathy, it is a large reason I had a successful sales career.  Empathy means understanding, not agreement.  I understand that people like your friends, and the Squad, have disgusting, amoral beliefs.

Per #2: reports that a few BBC guys are sympathetic to Hamas is not evidence of support for Hamas from OUR mainstream media. Criticism of Israel is not support for Hamas either. No proof has been presented, sorry. 

Per #6. It’s an insult to Muslim Americans to suggest that, because some of them are sympathetic to Hamas, they therefore reject American values. There are many conservatives sympathetic to Putin, a mass murderer, including the former President. The great Muhammad Ali was sympathetic and friendly  to Mobuto and Idi Amin, two more mass murderers. Woodrow Wilson was sympathetic to the KKK. Our $20 bill has a man on it responsible for the genocide of the Cheyenne nation. In other words I think you are being far too harshly judgmental. 

[The Real timschochet 6,661]

Sorry I forgot: per #5: of course Hamas doesn’t support a 2 state solution, which is yet another reason why Hamas must be crushed. I’m just not sure the current plan is the best way to achieve this. 

[thegeneral 3,121]

18 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

People understand war and conflict, even in the Middle East where it happens more often than not.  The reason *this* event is different than others was the utter savagery on October 7th. 
 

Right. I get the Israelis wanting to blow everything up. This latest flare up just ensures more generations of this. Glad to not live there. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

20 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I think your problem is that you expect everyone to think exactly like you, and when they don't then you can't understand that.  You have your opinion, and everyone else is the enemy.  Not a good way to go through life.

For the record, the Hamas attack was awful, Hamas is a disgusting terrorist organization, and Israel should retaliate.

But you think I support Hamas because you're not smart.

What an odd and vague retort. I get along with plenty of people I disagree with on certain issues. But I respect them, even if I disagree.  I actually love good, intelligent and respectful banter. That is not you. 

Your handle is very apropos. You take every issue straight to the gutter. Discussing topics with you is like wrestling with a pig, we’re both getting dirty but only one of us likes it. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,280]

Just now, KSB2424 said:

What an odd and vague retort. I get along with plenty of people I disagree with on certain issues. But I respect them, even if I disagree.  I actually love good, intelligent and respectful banter. That is not you 

Your handle is very apropos. You take every issue straight to the gutter. Discussing topics with you is like wrestling with a pig, we’re both getting dirty but only one of us likes it.  

 

 

He also wishes others would get blown up by a terrorist.  

[Fireballer 2,641]

49 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 immigration in the US works only if the people assimilate to our overriding values.  

Bingo

[RogerDodger 798]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

2. There is no support within the MSM for Hamas. None. I challenge you to prove otherwise, 

 

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Per #2: reports that a few BBC guys are sympathetic to Hamas

This in a nutshell is Tim.  Just goes ahead and lies to himself.  Worthless poster.  

[Reality 3,121]

Just now, RogerDodger said:

 

This in a nutshell is Tim.  Just goes ahead and lies to himself.  Worthless poster.  

That was impressive to watch.

It's happening but, it's not widespread...

[GutterBoy 2,899]

8 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

What an odd and vague retort. I get along with plenty of people I disagree with on certain issues. But I respect them, even if I disagree.  I actually love good, intelligent and respectful banter. That is not you. 

Your handle is very apropos. You take every issue straight to the gutter. Discussing topics with you is like wrestling with a pig, we’re both getting dirty but only one of us likes it. 

The last time I tried to have an honest conversation with you, you accused me of having child pron on my computer.  You're not the adult you think you are.

[The Real timschochet 6,661]

1 minute ago, Reality said:

That was impressive to watch.

It's happening but, it's not widespread...

No it’s not widespread. It’s not at all.

First off I don’t regard the BBC as part of the MSM. I was referring to the American MSM. But even if the BBC was part of it, the fact that they suspended the journalists involved proves that they aren’t sympathetic to Hamas either. If they were sympathetic the journalists would have been rewarded rather than suspended. 
 

You know who was sympathetic to Hamas prior to this incident? The Jerusalem Post, the largest newspaper in Israel. And Netanyahu who gave them aid. 

[RogerDodger 798]

Tim's never heard of BBC America. 

Then he puts a bunch of qualifiers of what "no support within the MSM, none" means. 

Giant POS.   

[KSB2424 3,148]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

The last time I tried to have an honest conversation with you, you accused me of having child pron on my computer.  You're not the adult you think you are.

We’ve never met, I can only go by your posting history, therefore I stand by that post.  Even though I don’t remember it. 

If I’m wrong, and I hope I was, I’m sorry.  However I’m just calling balls and strikes.  When you constantly side with terrorists and child predators you put us in a tough position. 

[The Real timschochet 6,661]

1 minute ago, RogerDodger said:

Tim's never heard of BBC America. 

Then he puts a bunch of qualifiers of what "no support within the MSM, none" means. 

Giant POS.   

It means no support. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

3 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

We’ve never met, I can only go by your posting history, therefore I stand by that post.  Even though I don’t remember it. 

If I’m wrong, and I hope I was, I’m sorry.  However I’m just calling balls and strikes.  When you constantly side with terrorists and child predators you put us in a tough position. 

See this is exactly what I mean.  I've never sided with a terrorist or child predator.

[RogerDodger 798]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

It means no support. 

"unofficially suspended"

That's support from the organization that had a half a dozen reporters tweeting their glee for a terrorist attack.  Not one rogue reporter, six that didnt even try to hide it. That's systematic.  Just like your denile is providing cover.  Braindeads like you are the problem.  

[Strike 5,441]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

See this is exactly what I mean.  I've never sided with a terrorist or child predator.

I remember when you said the same thing about your racist posts, and then it took someone 5 minutes to find one, and you had to apologize for it.  IOW, you lie about your posting history.  Why should anyone believe you?

[RogerDodger 798]

4 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

See this is exactly what I mean.  I've never sided with a terrorist or child predator.

. You're the Bud Light Queen. GTFO.  

[GutterBoy 2,899]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

I remember when you said the same thing about your racist posts, and then it took someone 5 minutes to find one, and you had to apologize for it.  IOW, you lie about your posting history.  Why should anyone believe you?

It was a dumb joke from 20 years ago which you admitted that it wasn't racist, and I apologized to mdc if the post offended him.

But go ahead and find where is sided with a terrorist or child predator, or keep your mouth shut 

[Pimpadeaux 2,405]

31 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

He also wishes others would get blown up by a terrorist.  

While you wish rape upon others' wives and death upon their children. You're a sick fock.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,280]

1 minute ago, Pimpadeaux said:

While you wish rape upon others' wives and death upon their children. You're a sick fock.

I guess Gutterboy and me are even then. Lol. 

[RogerDodger 798]

25 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

But go ahead and find where is sided with a terrorist or child predator, or keep your mouth shut 

Ok. This is you in the tranny bathroom rape thread. First defending the rapist: 

Quote

I've known 3 chicks that turned into dudes in high school, but no dudes ever turned into chicks.  I can't imagine a dude that wants to be a chick would be violent enough to rape

Then again not just defending the rapist, but, also admitting you dont care about the victim.  

Quote

That's all it is.  Nobody gives a fock about the girl.  You know how many chicks were raped in bathrooms between now and then?

I could go on and on. But you're a weakling. You're not worth the bandwidth, you bore me.  

 

 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

46 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

We’ve never met, I can only go by your posting history, therefore I stand by that post.  Even though I don’t remember it. 

If I’m wrong, and I hope I was, I’m sorry.  However I’m just calling balls and strikes.  When you constantly side with terrorists and child predators you put us in a tough position. 

Kvnt