War in Israel

[shadrap 132]

9 hours ago, Gepetto said:

Israel needs to displace them all out of Gaza and out of the West Bank and move them all to Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, and Iran and take over the entire Gaza Strip and West Bank and do away with those names and annex both areas to the new Israel.

Good idea except the countries you listed want no part of the Palestinians.  Even they don't like them.  I guess 1000 years of living by them they know some stuff.

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

25 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

You recently said that the vast majority of Palestinians just want to get along.  That seems in conflict with supporting Hamas, whose stated goal is to kill all the Jews.   

Do you have a link to yourself saying most Palestinians publicly support Hamas?

I’ve acknowledged the poll results before. I said they were misleading because the main reason they support  Hamas is they belief Hamas fights for Palestinians and nobody else does. I don’t believe they recognize that Hamas is evil. I don’t believe the vast majority of Palestinians are evil, I think that in the end they just want to get along. But they mistakenly view Israel as evil and they don’t believe they can get along without destroying Israel. We need to try to change their minds. I know you think this is impossible, Maybe it is. Nonetheless we need to try because the alternative is catastrophic. 

 

[Strike 4,290]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve acknowledged the poll results before. I said they were misleading because the main reason they support  Hamas is they belief Hamas fights for Palestinians and nobody else does. I don’t believe they recognize that Hamas is evil. I don’t believe the vast majority of Palestinians are evil, I think that in the end they just want to get along. But they mistakenly view Israel as evil and they don’t believe they can get along without destroying Israel. We need to try to change their minds. I know you think this is impossible, Maybe it is. Nonetheless we need to try because the alternative is catastrophic. 

 

Really????  This poll is from 11/14, five days ago.  So in the last 5 days you acknowledged THIS poll?  Did you even read the link I posted?  I doubt it.

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

9 minutes ago, Strike said:

Really????  This poll is from 11/14, five days ago.  So in the last 5 days you acknowledged THIS poll?  Did you even read the link I posted?  I doubt it.

I’ve acknowledged that the majority of Palestinians are sympathetic to Hamas. I didn’t need this poll; I could have predicted it. 
 

Did you know that, in 1969, the majority of college students in the USA were sympathetic to the North Vietnamese? Because they wanted an end to the war. But they had no idea how evil the Communists really were, despite the overwhelming evidence. They didn’t want to know. 

[jerryskids 5,593]

39 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve acknowledged the poll results before. I said they were misleading because the main reason they support  Hamas is they belief Hamas fights for Palestinians and nobody else does. I don’t believe they recognize that Hamas is evil. I don’t believe the vast majority of Palestinians are evil, I think that in the end they just want to get along. But they mistakenly view Israel as evil and they don’t believe they can get along without destroying Israel. We need to try to change their minds. I know you think this is impossible, Maybe it is. Nonetheless we need to try because the alternative is catastrophic. 

 

You can say the bolded to justify practically any behavior.

When you say "evil," you must mean Michael Myers-like evil.  Sure, most of them aren't probably inherent sociopaths.  But they've been programmed since birth in evil beliefs.  Is that unfortunate?  Very.  Is it reality?  Very.  Can all but the youngest of such people be de-programmed/avoid programming?  No.  So what do we (western civilization) do with such people?  Allow them to continue to foment hate and support soulless, terrorist organizations?  Is that good for the world?

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

28 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

You can say the bolded to justify practically any behavior.

When you say "evil," you must mean Michael Myers-like evil.  Sure, most of them aren't probably inherent sociopaths.  But they've been programmed since birth in evil beliefs.  Is that unfortunate?  Very.  Is it reality?  Very.  Can all but the youngest of such people be de-programmed/avoid programming?  No.  So what do we (western civilization) do with such people?  Allow them to continue to foment hate and support soulless, terrorist organizations?  Is that good for the world?

I don’t think you and I disagree very much on the facts. But we very much disagree on how to look at those facts and what is to be done. 

[jerryskids 5,593]

21 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think you and I disagree very much on the facts. But we very much disagree on how to look at those facts and what is to be done. 

Well, one of my statements was that most of the Palestinians can't be deprogrammed.  If you agree with that, what do you propose be done?

[Strike 4,290]

An Iranian backed terrorist group hijacked an Israeli ship today:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-19/israel-says-yemen-s-houthi-rebels-hijack-cargo-ship-in-red-sea

I'm sure this will trigger prompt action from President Biden.  He'll probably release another $10 billion to Iran.

[Hardcore troubadour 13,327]

“Sympathetic”. Real Tim is pure clown. 

[Strike 4,290]

17 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Well, one of my statements was that most of the Palestinians can't be deprogrammed.  If you agree with that, what do you propose be done?

Come on man.  Didn't read his posts?  It's simple.  "We need to try to change their minds."  I'm sure we can take care of that with a couple of online zoom seminars broadcast to all of Gaza. 

[jerryskids 5,593]

35 minutes ago, Strike said:

Come on man.  Didn't read his posts?  It's simple.  "We need to try to change their minds."  I'm sure we can take care of that with a couple of online zoom seminars broadcast to all of Gaza. 

I know, I'm just trying to point out the discontinuity between his acknowledgment that they can't be changed, and his unicorn desire just try, Strike, can't we just try?!

[Mark Davis 230]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve acknowledged that the majority of Palestinians are sympathetic to Hamas. I didn’t need this poll; I could have predicted it. 
 

Did you know that, in 1969, the majority of college students in the USA were sympathetic to the North Vietnamese? Because they wanted an end to the war. But they had no idea how evil the Communists really were, despite the overwhelming evidence. They didn’t want to know. 

The difference is those college students hadn't had it taught to them since birth to hate South Vietnam or people of a race.  They hadn't been taught it was proper to rape their women and young daughters and kill them in any brutal manner possible.  Such a society that does so is evil and rotten at its core.  That's not denying there are some decent people there who do not feel this way, but they are the minority.  But you can't fix people who have been taught from day one these things. 

It's just another example of why we should be unashamedly proud of Western culture and civilization.  We are superior in this way and it's why people want to come here.  We should stop apologizing for that or being ashamed of our imperfections.  Our system and our past are truly better than the others and it's time we quit apologizing for it and recognize it.

[nobody 2,195]

3 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You were criticizing Israel while the victims were still bleeding out. Just like all the other leftists out there.  But you’re not a leftist. 

Typical wokies.

Hamas is bad.  Israel is killing innocent people!!#!#!

Then they can say they said Hamas is bad.  Not a bad tactic.

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Well, one of my statements was that most of the Palestinians can't be deprogrammed.  If you agree with that, what do you propose be done?

That’s an opinion. “Can’t be deprogrammed” is not a statement of fact. I don’t agree with you. 

[jerryskids 5,593]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

That’s an opinion. “Can’t be deprogrammed” is not a statement of fact. I don’t agree with you. 

True, that is an opinion.  So how do you think the majority of people there can be deprogrammed?

[Strike 4,290]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

True, that is an opinion.  So how do you think the majority of people there can be deprogrammed?

I'd say TED talks but @The Real timschochetjjust found out what those were recently.  Lol.

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

30 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

True, that is an opinion.  So how do you think the majority of people there can be deprogrammed?

Economic opportunity. A good life. Prosperity for their families and children. Living without fear of dying.

 

[KSB2424 3,095]

27 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Economic opportunity. A good life. Prosperity for their families and children. Living without fear of dying.

 

You should go on a mission trip and change their hearts and minds.

[Strike 4,290]

37 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Economic opportunity. A good life. Prosperity for their families and children. Living without fear of dying.

 

What a load of crap.  There was no fear of dying except when they attacked Israel or defied their own duly elected government, in which case their own government killed them.  If they didn't attack Israel there would be peace.  Everything you mention is not happening, as a direct result of Hamas.  So, if all these people needed were the things you mentioned above, they wouldn't support Hamas as they do.  As usual, you're full of sh*t and simple facts and logic refute your weak a$$ argument.

[Gepetto 1,042]

44 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Economic opportunity. A good life. Prosperity for their families and children. Living without fear of dying.

 

That would make them like the citizens of Iran, huh, don't think that will work then.

[Rabbit Range 23]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

What a load of crap.  There was no fear of dying except when they attacked Israel or defied their own duly elected government, in which case their own government killed them.  If they didn't attack Israel there would be peace.  Everything you mention is not happening, as a direct result of Hamas.  So, if all these people needed were the things you mentioned above, they wouldn't support Hamas as they do.  As usual, you're full of sh*t and simple facts and logic refute your weak a$$ argument.

You wanna bet? 

[jerryskids 5,593]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Economic opportunity. A good life. Prosperity for their families and children. Living without fear of dying.

 

Looks like I underestimated your unicorn love.  So how do they achieve these things?

[GobbleDog 850]

2 hours ago, Strike said:

There was no fear of dying except when they attacked Israel or defied their own duly elected government, in which case their own government killed them.  If they didn't attack Israel there would be peace.

Even Israel supporters (me) have to admit Gazans live like 2nd class citizens, even if they didn't fear being killed. Ain't never long term peace when that's the situation. Voting Hamas to power added jet fuel to the fire.

[Strike 4,290]

9 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Even Israel supporters (me) have to admit Gazans live like 2nd class citizens, even if they didn't fear being killed. Ain't never long term peace when that's the situation. Voting Hamas to power added jet fuel to the fire.

They could be doing much better absent Hamas.  They receive massive amounts of money in aid that Hamas takes to build tunnels instead of bettering the conditions of the populace.  Without seeing what Gaza would look like if that aid was used productively I cannot place blame on Israel.

[IGotWorms 3,660]

9 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Well, one of my statements was that most of the Palestinians can't be deprogrammed.  If you agree with that, what do you propose be done?

And what do you propose? Kill em all?

Quit pretending like this is simple

[Strike 4,290]

7 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

And what do you propose? Kill em all?

Quit pretending like this is simple

Not one person has suggested killing them all, or that this is simple.  What a stupid post.

[IGotWorms 3,660]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Not one person has suggested killing them all, or that this is simple.  What a stupid post.

I was asking jer bear, dipsh1t

[Strike 4,290]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

I was asking jer bear, dipsh1t

Another stupid post.  If you don't want others to respond, send a PM dipsh1t.  Otherwise, don't be surprised if others respond. 

[IGotWorms 3,660]

Just now, Strike said:

Another stupid post.  If you don't want others to respond, send a PM dipsh1t.  Otherwise, don't be surprised if others respond. 

Anyone who isn’t a c0ck goblin is invited to respond

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Looks like I underestimated your unicorn love.  So how do they achieve these things?

First they get rid of Hamas. Second, a State of Palestine that is capitalist in nature. I believe that capitalism is the key to prosperity. 

Third, the United States develops nuclear fusion. I know I keep bringing this up in threads that have nothing to do with it, but consider: we are on the edge of developing a technology that will mean that a whole city can be powered by the energy produced in a single glass of water. That will change literally EVERYTHING- every physical need of people around the world, from food to shelter to transportation to leisure time will be incredibly cheap. All of the conflicts the world faces, including this one, will be completely altered. The mullahs of Iran, for example, will no longer have petroleum money to fund terrorism: oil will be worthless. The mullahs and the wealthy Saudis will go away, but the Arab people, not just the Palestinians, will have incredible prosperity that we can’t imagine now, as will the rest of the world. Sounds like a dream doesn’t it? But it’s within our reach within 20-30 years if we’re only willing to do it. 

[GobbleDog 850]

Quote

Israel orders Khan Younis evacuation in southern Gaza

Israel has told Palestinians in Khan Younis, the largest city in southern Gaza, to leave their homes. The new order suggests the military operations could soon move towards the south of the Gaza Strip.

On Saturday, Israeli missiles struck a residential building in Khan Younis, killing 26 people, a local health official said. Israel has not yet commented on the incident. But it has been dropping leaflets in the wider area, urging people to leave for shelters.

"We're asking people to relocate. I know it's not easy for many of them, but we don't want to see civilians caught up in the crossfire," an adviser to Benjamin Netanyahu, told MSNBC on Friday. He said Israeli troops would need to advance into the city to remove Hamas fighters from underground tunnels, adding he was "pretty sure" those being urged to relocate "won't have to move again" if they head west, towards the Mediterranean Sea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67462610

Google map Khan Younis... it's right there in the heart of southern Gaza. Anyone wondering what Israel was gonna do after operations in northern Gaza, wonder no more.  The last time they dropped leaflets in northern Gaza, they waited 4 weeks before invading.  

[jerryskids 5,593]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:44 PM, The Real timschochet said:

First they get rid of Hamas. Second, a State of Palestine that is capitalist in nature. I believe that capitalism is the key to prosperity. 

Third, the United States develops nuclear fusion. I know I keep bringing this up in threads that have nothing to do with it, but consider: we are on the edge of developing a technology that will mean that a whole city can be powered by the energy produced in a single glass of water. That will change literally EVERYTHING- every physical need of people around the world, from food to shelter to transportation to leisure time will be incredibly cheap. All of the conflicts the world faces, including this one, will be completely altered. The mullahs of Iran, for example, will no longer have petroleum money to fund terrorism: oil will be worthless. The mullahs and the wealthy Saudis will go away, but the Arab people, not just the Palestinians, will have incredible prosperity that we can’t imagine now, as will the rest of the world. Sounds like a dream doesn’t it? But it’s within our reach within 20-30 years if we’re only willing to do it. 

Sorry, I've got a busy week including today so I'll be brief.  First, that is happening, Hamas is being destroyed.  But then what?  We let them elect a new government?  Who will they elect?  I guess we'll see, but remember that if the US or Israel is involve, your Lefty buddies will scream apartheid$#@!

Second, you are asking arguably the most backwards people in the middle east, so bad that other Arab countries don't want them, to set up the bastion of democracy there?  And by the way, those same other Arab countries have a vested interest in that NOT happening.

Third, while I support continued research into nuclear fusion, it is beyond words to propose this as a solution to this problem.

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

3 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Sorry, I've got a busy week including today so I'll be brief.  First, that is happening, Hamas is being destroyed.  But then what?  We let them elect a new government?  Who will they elect?  I guess we'll see, but remember that if the US or Israel is involve, your Lefty buddies will scream apartheid$#@!

Second, you are asking arguably the most backwards people in the middle east, so bad that other Arab countries don't want them, to set up the bastion of democracy there?  And by the way, those same other Arab countries have a vested interest in that NOT happening.

Third, while I support continued research into nuclear fusion, it is beyond words to propose this as a solution to this problem.

1. That certainly is the question, isn’t it? I don’t know the answer to that question, but I do know that Israel should have had that answer in mind prior to their invasion of Gaza. If you examine our successful occupations of Germany and Japan, as opposed to our unsuccessful occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq, you will see that having a detailed plan beforehand is the main difference. And Israel is acting on instinct here and I fear the results. 

2. While the Palestinian people are generally politically extreme, I don’t think their society is quite as backwards as you’re claiming. They have a larger middle class, I believe, than most Arab countries, and, thanks in large part to western charity, they’re more educated. So I don’t think these are insolvable issues. 
 

3. I’m not suggesting nuclear fusion as a specific solution to this problem, I’m suggesting it will be a solution to ALL of our problems, and make issues like this one that is causing us so much worry irrelevant. It will completely change the nature of human society. 

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

I’m torn about this hostage deal. I’m honestly not sure Israel should agree to it. I feel very much for the families, and I also feel for the Palestinian civilians who will no doubt benefit from a pause in the fighting. Many lives will be saved, and 50 hostages will be free. Can’t blame anyone for wanting that. 

But- it helps Hamas. Gives them breathing space, the ability to regroup. The goal is to destroy them.I just don’t know. 

I’ve been criticized here for being unsure about a lot of this stuff. I’ve been called anti-Semitic, a defender of Hamas, whatever. It’s all ridiculous. But I AM unsure, that part is true. I wish I wasn’t.  

[RLLD 3,706]

31 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m torn about this hostage deal. I’m honestly not sure Israel should agree to it. I feel very much for the families, and I also feel for the Palestinian civilians who will no doubt benefit from a pause in the fighting. Many lives will be saved, and 50 hostages will be free. Can’t blame anyone for wanting that. 

But- it helps Hamas. Gives them breathing space, the ability to regroup. The goal is to destroy them.I just don’t know. 

I’ve been criticized here for being unsure about a lot of this stuff. I’ve been called anti-Semitic, a defender of Hamas, whatever. It’s all ridiculous. But I AM unsure, that part is true. I wish I wasn’t.  

You make salient points.  But.....we simply must continue to be the peoples of true morality, toward that end we cannot allow lives to be chess pieces as Islamists are inclined.

It is always unwise to negotiate with terrorists, but lets get these people back, and then get back to it.

This is a battle of good vs evil, lets not become the evil we seek to challenge.

[Gepetto 1,042]

Anyone interested in reading the history of GAZA, link to Wikipedia (The Free Encyclopedia) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gaza#:~:text=The prophets Amos and Zephaniah,the northern Kingdom of Israel. 

 

[nobody 2,195]

So Semetic tribes -> Roman conquest -> Arab conquest -> Ottoman conquest -> Britain conquest -> Ceded to Israel

I guess I can see why Palestinians are adamant the land belongs to them.

[The Real timschochet 3,943]

27 minutes ago, nobody said:

So Semetic tribes -> Roman conquest -> Arab conquest -> Ottoman conquest -> Britain conquest -> Ceded to Israel

I guess I can see why Palestinians are adamant the land belongs to them.

Yeah you missed quite a bit of history there. 

[Hardcore troubadour 13,327]

The Hamas human filth were hunting down women and shooting them at point blank range while the women pleaded for their life. Exterminate the whole lot of them. They are savages. 

[nobody 2,195]

34 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yeah you missed quite a bit of history there. 

Stfu