IGotWorms 3,366 Posted February 20 41 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said: This is why this thread is a worthless piece of crap like the OP. He throws out Center for American Progress to make a garbage point. When you use far left think tanks run by John Podesta and funded by Soros, public sector unions, hedge funds, the gates foundation and other American oligarchs, you have nothing. Garbage person. OP is a “garbage person” because you disagree with him politically? Might need to check yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dizkneelande 839 Posted February 20 Just now, IGotWorms said: OP is a “garbage person” because you disagree with him politically? Might need to check yourself Yes sh!tbird I think all leftist are garbage. Does that hit home? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,366 Posted February 20 Just now, Dizkneelande said: Yes sh!tbird I think all leftist are garbage. Does that hit home? I don’t think that’s healthy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 761 Posted February 20 5 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said: worst president. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dizkneelande 839 Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said: I don’t think that’s healthy Interesting because the healthcare system is something else the left ruined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said: Yes sh!tbird I think all leftist are garbage. Does that hit home? First off I don’t regard myself as a leftist. Most of the time I disagree with leftists. I am a liberal, again most of the time. On some issues I lean conservative. You may not think there is a difference between liberals and leftists, but there is one. Second I’m sorry that you reject the source I used. I used them because I find their arguments compelling, no other reason. If you disagree I’d love to hear why. Simply attacking the source doesn’t do much. I’ve done that too from time to time and it’s never a convincing argument. I also don’t believe the Ukraine issue is one between conservatives and liberals. The traditional conservative position of someone like Ronald Reagan would certainly be for helping Ukraine. Finally I’m sorry that you seem to have such negative feelings about me. It’s not mutual. Should you decide you want to participate in the actual discussion I would welcome it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 761 Posted February 20 Just now, The Real timschochet said: You may not think there is a difference between liberals and leftists, but there is one. Just like All Republicans are Magatards? Stop with the hypocrisy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dizkneelande 839 Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: First off I don’t regard myself as a leftist. Most of the time I disagree with leftists. I am a liberal, again most of the time. On some issues I lean conservative. You may not think there is a difference between liberals and leftists, but there is one. Second I’m sorry that you reject the source I used. I used them because I find their arguments compelling, no other reason. If you disagree I’d love to hear why. Simply attacking the source doesn’t do much. I’ve done that too from time to time and it’s never a convincing argument. I also don’t believe the Ukraine issue is one between conservatives and liberals. The traditional conservative position of someone like Ronald Reagan would certainly be for helping Ukraine. Finally I’m sorry that you seem to have such negative feelings about me. It’s not mutual. Should you decide you want to participate in the actual discussion I would welcome it. If you find this argument compelling you’re more retarded than I thought you were - “The battle is not only for life, freedom and security of Ukrainians or any other nation which Russia attempts to conquer. This struggle will define in what world our children and grandchildren will live.” “Now, decisions made in Washington will shape the trajectory of U.S. interests in Ukraine and in the world for years—if not decades—to come. But not everyone in Washington is as clear-sighted. A small core of far-right extremists seeks to vacate the U.S. commitment to Ukraine. This short-sighted push is oblivious to the long-term strategic benefits that a free Ukraine provides to the United States and the world. Immediate assistance to Ukraine is a critical part of addressing core American equities.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said: Just like All Republicans are Magatards? Stop with the hypocrisy. Obviously they’re not. I don’t use that term, it’s offensive. I do use the term MAGA to describe those conservatives who most closely share Donald Trump’s beliefs. Thats not meant to be offensive. Are most Republicans MAGA at this point? Judging from the primaries thus far it would be hard to argue otherwise. But I don’t know what the exact numbers are. In any case, not all Republicans are MAGA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said: If you find this argument compelling you’re more retarded than I thought you were - “The battle is not only for life, freedom and security of Ukrainians or any other nation which Russia attempts to conquer. This struggle will define in what world our children and grandchildren will live.” “Now, decisions made in Washington will shape the trajectory of U.S. interests in Ukraine and in the world for years—if not decades—to come. But not everyone in Washington is as clear-sighted. A small core of far-right extremists seeks to vacate the U.S. commitment to Ukraine. This short-sighted push is oblivious to the long-term strategic benefits that a free Ukraine provides to the United States and the world. Immediate assistance to Ukraine is a critical part of addressing core American equities.” Yes I find what you bolded extremely compelling. Let’s get into this a little deeper: Following the fall of the Soviet Union, America was faced with the question of how we would respond to those nations under the yoke of Communist slavery seeking our help to become independent and free. We helped them with economic aid, including Ukraine and it was the right decision. Ukraine is a country extremely rich in natural resources, which is why Russia wants it back. Ukraine had not been an independent nation since about 1650. It’s certainly the most tragic country in all of Europe; I would argue that no other place on the globe had a worse 20th century. Stalin murdered about 10 million Ukrainians, Hitler another 3-4 million and created slave labor out of the rest. This was followed by another 45 years of sheer misery under the Soviet yoke. It’s amazing that there is an Ukraine left. Is it a perfect nation? Hardly. It’s been incredibly corrupt. It’s George Washington figure, Chmeltensky, is probably the worst murderer of Jews before the Nazis, and there is an anti-Semitic strain there that is worse than anywhere on Earth, despite the fact that the current leader is Jewish. Nonetheless, and despite all of the tragic history, the yearning for freedom there is as strong as anywhere. Is an independent Ukraine vital to our interests? If you study geopolitics it absolutely is. And yes it will shape our grandchildren’s lives because what happens in Europe affects us so greatly long term. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,265 Posted February 20 2 hours ago, IGotWorms said: I believe that was addressed by pointing out that we are the world’s largest economy and benefit from American leadership in the world. The same kind of leadership you want to cast aside. Well not when it comes to Israel, but definitely when Putin would benefit since he benefits Trump. Well, as I addressed if you bothered to read, there might be a middle ground between zero support and outfunding all of NATO. I don't get where you get this "cast aside" trope. And I'm not a big Trump fan. Otherwise, good post, good effort, typical for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,290 Posted February 20 3 hours ago, jerryskids said: It's like you didn't read a word I said, quite impressive. Did you not read what I posted about GDP? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 1,544 Posted February 20 On 2/17/2024 at 3:32 PM, The Real timschochet said: Stay out of this thread and I’ll stay out of yours. If you do come into this thread looking to troll me I can’t stop you but don’t look for me to respond. Zero self control, attention hor . Spending your evening arguing with someone who just called you a garbage person and retarded. Serious Discussion!!1! Shocker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 1,879 Posted February 20 This is some serious discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, Horseman said: Zero self control, attention hor . Spending your evening arguing with someone who just called you a garbage person and retarded. Serious Discussion!!1! Shocker. @Dizkneelande is unfortunately a name caller, and he doesn’t like me very much, but he does make interesting points that are worth responding to, so I did. You’re always welcome to do the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 1,544 Posted February 20 1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said: @Dizkneelande is unfortunately a name caller, and he doesn’t like me very much, but he does make interesting points that are worth responding to, so I did. You’re always welcome to do the same. No. It's all you have left. You made this thread specifically to avoid that. Piss off already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, Horseman said: No. It's all you have left. You made this thread specifically to avoid that. Piss off already. OK. Your loss, too bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,813 Posted February 20 No one wants to join Bidens military. May have to have a draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said: No one wants to join Bidens military. May have to have a draft. Military recruitment has declined on a yearly basis for several years before Biden took office. Unless, perhaps, you have some reason for believing that it has to do with Biden’s policies (and your reason is backed up by data?) Also, since you’re in this thread, would you care to answer my previous question? You mocked another poster for saying that Navatny was a hero and for wanting him to be President of Russia. Russia is a dictatorship run by a man who murders his opponents. Why wouldn’t you want a change there? Are you an opponent of freedom? If not please explain your mockery. Seriously I don’t understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,813 Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Military recruitment has declined on a yearly basis for several years before Biden took office. Unless, perhaps, you have some reason for believing that it has to do with Biden’s policies (and your reason is backed up by data?) Also, since you’re in this thread, would you care to answer my previous question? You mocked another poster for saying that Navatny was a hero and for wanting him to be President of Russia. Russia is a dictatorship run by a man who murders his opponents. Why wouldn’t you want a change there? Are you an opponent of freedom? If not please explain your mockery. Seriously I don’t understand. He made a point that Trump was being prosecuted and possibly going to prison, as a reason he shouldn’t be voted for. Yet when this guy is prosecuted for political purposes he’s hailed as a hero. Unless of course you don’t think Trump is being prosecuted for political purposes and all these trials are just a coincidence, some of them concerning things that happened many years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: He made a point that Trump was being prosecuted and possibly going to prison, as a reason he shouldn’t be voted for. Yet when this guy is prosecuted for political purposes he’s hailed as a hero. Unless of course you don’t think Trump is being prosecuted for political purposes and all these trials are just a coincidence, some of them concerning things that happened many years ago. A coincidence? No. Trump is being prosecuted for various crimes that he committed. If he had chosen not to run for President again he would still be charged for these crimes because he committed them. Beyond that you seem to agree with Trump that there is some kind of reasonable comparison between him and Navatny. I think that’s pretty offensive. It reminds me of black football players who, when they’re not paid enough, complain that they’re being lynched. Or AOC, who compared an immigrant detention center to Auschwitz. Some comparisons should not be made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 761 Posted February 20 7 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said: Did you not read what I posted about GDP? Little man Spun Himself Out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dizkneelande 839 Posted February 20 8 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: @Dizkneelande is unfortunately a name caller, and he doesn’t like me very much, but he does make interesting points that are worth responding to, so I did. You’re always welcome to do the same. It’s simple Tim I consider you the enemy. Your entire ideology, worldview and the people you support are the antithesis to liberty and freedom and have a direct impact on every day Americans. Every time the people elected to govern us violate our civil liberties and constitution rights, you and your ilk get in line and endorse it 100% of the time. You’re all a hive mind virus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeachGuy23 547 Posted February 20 24 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said: It’s simple Tim I consider you the enemy. Your entire ideology, worldview and the people you support are the antithesis to liberty and freedom and have a direct impact on every day Americans. Every time the people elected to govern us violate our civil liberties and constitution rights, you and your ilk get in line and endorse it 100% of the time. You’re all a hive mind virus. Let's unpack this my very angry friend. You say we're all a hive mind right? How about you lay out what you believe are the key tenets of this hive mind, and I, and hopefully other libs, will let you know which of those ideological core issues we believe in. Sound reasonable boyo? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dizkneelande 839 Posted February 20 9 hours ago, Horseman said: Zero self control, attention hor . Spending your evening arguing with someone who just called you a garbage person and retarded. Serious Discussion!!1! Shocker. The Center for American Progress is a fascist think tank spreading propaganda, lies & the war machine. If you are someone who thinks they have any shred of credibility, I’ll think you are retarded (not you of course you’re one of the smart ones). They are funded and run by all the people that hate us. He wants serious discussion but argues his points using far left partisans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lod001 1,240 Posted February 20 8 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said: No one wants to join Bidens military. May have to have a draft. Put all the illegals on the front lines in ukraine. If they live, they can be US citizens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dizkneelande 839 Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, BeachGuy23 said: Let's unpack this my very angry friend. You say we're all a hive mind right? How about you lay out what you believe are the key tenets of this hive mind, and I, and hopefully other libs, will let you know which of those ideological core issues we believe in. Sound reasonable boyo? 1. It doesnt happen 2. Ok it happens but its so rare it doesnt matter 3. Ok its not that rare but its effects are exaggerated 4. its happening and its a good thing 5. GFY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,813 Posted February 20 Think Biden will do another interview with Cardi B? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeachGuy23 547 Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said: 1. It doesnt happen 2. Ok it happens but its so rare it doesnt matter 3. Ok its not that rare but its effects are exaggerated 4. its happening and its a good thing 5. GFY What are you referring to with 1 - 4? And maybe go take a walk outside my angry little guy. You're definitely wound up this morning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 2 hours ago, Dizkneelande said: It’s simple Tim I consider you the enemy. Your entire ideology, worldview and the people you support are the antithesis to liberty and freedom and have a direct impact on every day Americans. Every time the people elected to govern us violate our civil liberties and constitution rights, you and your ilk get in line and endorse it 100% of the time. You’re all a hive mind virus. Can you be more specific about this? How is my worldview the antithesis to liberty? I’ve always regarded myself as a believer in capitalism, and I think the United States is the greatest country in human history. I’m about as anti-collectivist as it gets and never considered myself a good candidate for Borg membership. I’m a pretty big believer in individual rights. So there seems to be a strong disconnect here. What exactly am I missing? Please be specific. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,813 Posted February 20 8 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: A coincidence? No. Trump is being prosecuted for various crimes that he committed. If he had chosen not to run for President again he would still be charged for these crimes because he committed them. Beyond that you seem to agree with Trump that there is some kind of reasonable comparison between him and Navatny. I think that’s pretty offensive. It reminds me of black football players who, when they’re not paid enough, complain that they’re being lynched. Or AOC, who compared an immigrant detention center to Auschwitz. Some comparisons should not be made. So you think Trump is the only one that inflated the value of his properties? Just him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: So you think Trump is the only one that inflated the value of his properties? Just him? No. And I’m troubled by that particular prosecution since I’m a member of that industry (not at Trump’s level of course) and pretty familiar with those practices. That being said, it certainly does sound like Trump took a common practice and carried it to extremes, so possibly what he did was worthy of prosecution. I’m not sure. But in any case that was done by the state of New York. It’s not a federal prosecution, and it’s civil, not criminal. It really has no bearing on your comparison of Trump to Navalny, which is what I am criticizing you for and what I find extremely offensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dizkneelande 839 Posted February 20 21 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Can you be more specific about this? How is my worldview the antithesis to liberty? I’ve always regarded myself as a believer in capitalism, and I think the United States is the greatest country in human history. I’m about as anti-collectivist as it gets and never considered myself a good candidate for Borg membership. I’m a pretty big believer in individual rights. So there seems to be a strong disconnect here. What exactly am I missing? Please be specific. Here is a specific. You’re a totalitarians wet dream. ep 14, 2022 Add bookmark #630 FairWarning said: Were there people who lost their jobs on the railways if they didn’t get the vax? I would have fired them. https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/the-joe-biden-thread-things-are-looking-up.805384/post-24188962 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,813 Posted February 20 8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: No. And I’m troubled by that particular prosecution since I’m a member of that industry (not at Trump’s level of course) and pretty familiar with those practices. That being said, it certainly does sound like Trump took a common practice and carried it to extremes, so possibly what he did was worthy of prosecution. I’m not sure. But in any case that was done by the state of New York. It’s not a federal prosecution, and it’s civil, not criminal. It really has no bearing on your comparison of Trump to Navalny, which is what I am criticizing you for and what I find extremely offensive. Navalny was Prosecuted for political reasons. Trump is as well. That’s the valid comparison I’m making. So get off your soapbox and be serious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said: Here is a specific. You’re a totalitarians wet dream. ep 14, 2022 Add bookmark #630 FairWarning said: Were there people who lost their jobs on the railways if they didn’t get the vax? I would have fired them. https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/the-joe-biden-thread-things-are-looking-up.805384/post-24188962 OK. So if I understand you correctly, your objection is that I supported the government trying to compel people to take the Covid vaccine, and you regard that as a gross violation of civil liberties. Fair enough. My response, then and now, is that we don’t live in an anarchy. For individual rights to be protected we have to have a government to protect them. And public health has to be part of that government. We can and should require, for example, that all children attending public schools must receive polio and smallpox shots or they cannot attend, as they pose a public health risk to others. We can and should require that someone who has Ebola or other deadly, communicable disease, be forcibly quarantined. And so on. These measures are not designed to interfere with individual liberties but to protect them. In the case of the Covid vaccine you no doubt believe these measures were misapplied. I disagree with that. But even if you were right and I was wrong in that instance it still doesn’t make me totalitarian. The principle of public health and public safety as necessary for a free society to exist remains intact. So I have to reject your argument. Got any other examples? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 43 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Navalny was Prosecuted for political reasons. Trump is as well. That’s the valid comparison I’m making. So get off your soapbox and be serious. Well first off, Navalny wasn’t just prosecuted for political reasons. He was also imprisoned, sent to a gulag, and murdered for political reasons. Thats quite a significant difference and it’s one of two reasons for my objection to this comparison. The second reason for my objection is that I strongly disagree with you that Donald Trump is being prosecuted for political reasons. I know he makes this claim and that a strong majority of Republican voters believe it. But that doesn’t make it true. If we examine the specific criminal charges against Trump, it’s hard to see how they were manufactured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 1,544 Posted February 20 It's a common practice taken to the extreme sounds just like what a psychopath would say to justify something to themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, Horseman said: It's a common practice taken to the extreme sounds just like what a psychopath would say to justify something to themselves. I used that phrase very specifically to describe Trump’s practice of overvaluing his properties. Hardcore pointed out, correctly, that many if not most wealthy property owners do this. But the amounts are relative: perhaps a 3 million dollar property is valued at 4 million, or an 8 million dollar building is valued at 12 million. But Trump did things like trying to make a 4 million dollar property valued at 50 million. That’s why I wrote that he was taking a common practice and carrying it to an extreme. Nothing psychopathic about my point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloaca du jour 2,072 Posted February 20 Imagine being a liberal and voting for student loan forgiveness and getting 7% interest and world war 3 in return. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 3,080 Posted February 20 13 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said: Imagine being a liberal and voting for student loan forgiveness and getting 7% interest and world war 3 in return. Please make your argument why World War 3 would be more likely under a liberal President. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
