luigi mangione hung jury

[kilroy69 1,216]

Sooooo what happens if luigi mangione is tried but a jury refuses to convict? All it takes is ONE person who had a family member focked over by the insurance companies to hang a jury. Do they keep trying him till they get a verdict or does he walk. If he walked would trump order the justice department to file charges? 

[MDC 7,133]

What happens if monkeys fly out of my butt?

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

Just now, MDC said:

What happens if monkeys fly out of my butt?

Isn’t that the plot of Wicked? 

[squistion 1,952]

3 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

Sooooo what happens if luigi mangione is tried but a jury refuses to convict? All it takes is ONE person who had a family member focked over by the insurance companies to hang a jury. Do they keep trying him till they get a verdict or does he walk. If he walked would trump order the justice department to file charges? 

Sooooo, let's wait and see if it goes to trial. It is pretty cut and dried that he did it, so there is a good chance a plea deal can be reached. 

[kilroy69 1,216]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

What happens if monkeys fly out of my butt?

Are you saying that this is not an outcome that is possible? A large amount of people out there seem to support him. 

[MDC 7,133]

5 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

Are you saying that this is not an outcome that is possible? A large amount of people out there seem to support him. 

I think it’s incredibly unlikely. No prosecuting attorney is letting someone with a family member who got focked over by an insurer on the jury. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Sounds like a pron title 

 

That I would totally watch

[kilroy69 1,216]

4 minutes ago, MDC said:

I think it’s incredibly unlikely. No prosecuting attorney is letting someone with a family member who got focked over by an insurer on the jury. 

I think you underestimate the amount of people that have had family or friends focked over by the insurance companies. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

I think it’s incredibly unlikely. No prosecuting attorney is letting someone with a family member who got focked over by an insurer on the jury. 

They only get to dismiss a certain amount of people.  I'm willing to bet that anyone who was focked over or had a family member focked over by an insurer would pay to get on that jury.

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

27 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

Sooooo what happens if luigi mangione is tried but a jury refuses to convict? All it takes is ONE person who had a family member focked over by the insurance companies to hang a jury. Do they keep trying him till they get a verdict or does he walk. If he walked would trump order the justice department to file charges? 

If this dude and his attorney are smart, they go to trial.  He's going to get a slap on the wrist compared to what he should get.  The DA is going to throw every possible charge at him that he can... because he knows he'll never get any murder chargers.  A plea deal sends this dude to jail for life with "a chance" of parole.  If he goes to trial, there's no way they get a unanimous guilty verdict on any of he life imprisonment charges.  Like you said, it only takes ONE person to get on that jury to say "fock you", and this dude walks completely out the door.  It only takes ONE person to just get him out of the murder charges.  I think there's going to be at least one person in the jury pool who'll say "not guilty" on all of the serious charges and the only guilty verdict will probably be on a gun charge that'll get him 3 to 5 years.

[MDC 7,133]

13 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I think you underestimate the amount of people that have had family or friends focked over by the insurance companies. 

True, but I think you overestimate the number of people who’d let a murderer walk just because they had a family member focked over by an insurance company. 

[kilroy69 1,216]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

True, but I think you overestimate the number of people who’d let a murderer walk just because they had a family member focked over by an insurance company. 

I do not. It takes 12 to convict. It takes 1 to hang a jury.  I think it would be harder to get 12 people to agree to convict than for 1 person to hold out. 

[The Real timschochet 6,430]

9 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If this dude and his attorney are smart, they go to trial.  He's going to get a slap on the wrist compared to what he should get.  The DA is going to throw every possible charge at him that he can... because he knows he'll never get any murder chargers.  A plea deal sends this dude to jail for life with "a chance" of parole.  If he goes to trial, there's no way they get a unanimous guilty verdict on any of he life imprisonment charges.  Like you said, it only takes ONE person to get on that jury to say "fock you", and this dude walks completely out the door.  It only takes ONE person to just get him out of the murder charges.  I think there's going to be at least one person in the jury pool who'll say "not guilty" on all of the serious charges and the only guilty verdict will probably be on a gun charge that'll get him 3 to 5 years.

I think you guys are out to lunch on this one. 
There will not be any jury nullification. This dude is going to be convicted of first degree murder and will be sent to prison for life. 

[MDC 7,133]

3 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I do not. It takes 12 to convict. It takes 1 to hang a jury.  I think it would be harder to get 12 people to agree to convict than for 1 person to hold out. 

I haven’t read much about Luigi since they caught him so I’m not up on all the facts of the case. Id be really surprised if the prosecution has him dead to rights and he gets off because a juror with an ax to grind refuses to convict. I’m not even sure why you’re worried about this.

[TimHauck 2,621]

34 minutes ago, squistion said:

Sooooo, let's wait and see if it goes to trial. It is pretty cut and dried that he did it, so there is a good chance a plea deal can be reached. 

@Frozenbeernuts probably thinks he was set up

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I think you guys are out to lunch on this one. 
There will not be any jury nullification. This dude is going to be convicted of first degree murder and will be sent to prison for life. 

We saw that NY doesn't care about the actual law... jurors minds are made up before the trial and done deal.  If this thing goes to trial, there will be at least one person who is a leftist, no doubt about it.

[jerryskids 6,567]

I think we need to define "focked over."  I mean, everyone has had some degree of trouble with insurance companies.  That doesn't mean we would let a stone cold assassin off the hook.  It would have to be someone who got focked over so bad that they'd be willing to do it.

Also, and I'm not following that closely:  was Mangione himself focked over?  Didn't he get the surgery he wanted for his Sarno back problem, and post positively about it online?   

[edjr 6,578]

he heh he he heh he said “hung”

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

Getting 12 Americans to agree gravity seems to work pretty consistently on this planet is a difficult proposition.  Getting 12 Americans to agree on anything is a difficult proposition, particualrly getting them to agree beyond a reasonable doubt.  That said, that is what Prosecutors do, routinely.  In this instance, if they feel the defense is making a run at jury nulification because folks don't like insurance companies the Prosecutor, in their close needs to address that.  We Americans also don't like bankers, lawyers, real estate agents, telemarketers, auto repair places, the post office, congress, the DMV and a host of other occupations or agencies.  In closing the Prosecutor need simply argue that persons in those occupations are not deserving of vigilante executions with the vigilante being exonerrated.  The Prosecutor need only list the occupations of the jurors themselves as not justifying vigilantism as there is a good chance the jury can be packed with persons from unpopular occupations.

[jonmx 2,424]

2 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

Are you saying that this is not an outcome that is possible? A large amount of people out there seem to support him. 

I was taking it a different way.   I thought he was saying in the highly likely case that monkeys would fly out his butt.

[Gepetto 1,289]

I hope the defense looks deeply into the killed CEOs internal business decisions and results and outcomes with personal stories of death, disease, injury, suffering, lost money, and put the insurance companies practices on trial.

[jonmx 2,424]

4 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Getting 12 Americans to agree gravity seems to work pretty consistently on this planet is a difficult proposition.  Getting 12 Americans to agree on anything is a difficult proposition, particualrly getting them to agree beyond a reasonable doubt.  That said, that is what Prosecutors do, routinely.  In this instance, if they feel the defense is making a run at jury nulification because folks don't like insurance companies the Prosecutor, in their close needs to address that.  We Americans also don't like bankers, lawyers, real estate agents, telemarketers, auto repair places, then post office, congress, the DMV and a host of other occupations or agencies.  In closing the Prosecutor need simply argue that persons in those occupations are not deserving of vigilante executions with the vigilante being exonerrated.  The Prosecutor need only list the occupations of the jurors themselves as not justifying vigilantism as there is a good chance the jury can be packed with persons from unpopular occupations.

 

Herd mentality is pretty strong in most people.  When someone in a position of authority like an attorney and judge can quite easily manipulate a jury.  It would take a rather strong-willed person who lied during jury selection to nullify a verdict.  

 

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

8 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I hope the defense looks deeply into the killed CEOs internal business decisions and results and outcomes with personal stories of death, disease, injury, suffering, lost money, and put the insurance companies practices on trial.

No responsible judge would allow that irrelevant and immaterial information as it is not a legal defense that you don't like the industry.  So maybe Judge Merchan.

[jonmx 2,424]

2 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I hope the defense looks deeply into the killed CEOs internal business decisions and results and outcomes with personal stories of death, disease, injury, suffering, lost money, and put the insurance companies practices on trial.

Lol....in what court would such a defense be allowed?  None of that is relevant to a murder trial and no real judge would allow such a circus. 

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

6 minutes ago, jonmx said:

 

Herd mentality is pretty strong in most people.  When someone in a position of authority like an attorney and judge can quite easily manipulate a jury.  It would take a rather strong-willed person who lied during jury selection to nullify a verdict.  

 

The difficulty is that idiots think their fantastical doubts and fantasies are reasonable doubts.  A good defense attorney looks for that juror, tries the case to them, and in closing tries to butress that jurors self-image by implying only the truely uniquely insightful can see things as do they.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,838]

He is literally on camera shooting the guy in the back. I don't even know how a hung jury is even possible. In this case. The evidence is irrefutable.

I mean even if the guy is attacking you and he turns around and runs away and you shoot him in the back you will be prosecuted. 

[MDC 7,133]

7 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I hope the defense looks deeply into the killed CEOs internal business decisions and results and outcomes with personal stories of death, disease, injury, suffering, lost money, and put the insurance companies practices on trial.

Me too but they won’t. Health insurers are the elites that both parties can get behind. 

[Strike 5,195]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

I think we need to define "focked over."  I mean, everyone has had some degree of trouble with insurance companies.  That doesn't mean we would let a stone cold assassin off the hook.  It would have to be someone who got focked over so bad that they'd be willing to do it.

Also, and I'm not following that closely:  was Mangione himself focked over?  Didn't he get the surgery he wanted for his Sarno back problem, and post positively about it online?   

He wasn't even insured by UHC so he has no claim that this guy focked him over.

[jonmx 2,424]

9 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

The difficulty is that idiots think their fantastical doubts and fantasies are reasonable doubts.  A good defense attorney looks for that juror, tries the case to them, and in closing tries to butress that jurors self-image by implying only the truely uniquely insightful can see things as do they.

Jury selection has always been critical to the case.   It used to be lawyers had to do a lot of reading between the lines in picking jury members.   In my skeptical opinion, today the feds have a complete profile of jury members not only through their social media profile but with FBI files and maybe even more invasive means.  Today a prosecutor with unscrupulous morals could obtain the biases of every potential jury member and get a jury which would convict even on the flimsiest of evidence.   This is an area of abuse that needs to be prevented with the amount of data and surveillance which is available.  It would not shock me if the lawyers going after Trump had used such tactics

  

[Fnord 2,051]

Seems to me that those thinking a properly vetted jury would let a murderer walk based on personal feelings about the industry in which the victim worked are really only showing us who they are. It's projection, and you are the problem, not the system.

If I'm on a jury IDGAF about any of this. There is a lot at stake. Listen to the evidence, vote accordingly. Do your job. 

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

11 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Jury selection has always been critical to the case.   It used to be lawyers had to do a lot of reading between the lines in picking jury members.   In my skeptical opinion, today the feds have a complete profile of jury members not only through their social media profile but with FBI files and maybe even more invasive means.  Today a prosecutor with unscrupulous morals could obtain the biases of every potential jury member and get a jury which would convict even on the flimsiest of evidence.   This is an area of abuse that needs to be prevented with the amount of data and surveillance which is available.  It would not shock me if the lawyers going after Trump had used such tactics

  

In most high profile and first degree murder cases, and capital cases The jury pool gets sent a questionaire, often fairly in depth, before they report.  We Prosecutors have a fairly in depth profile just from that.  We can, and do, frankly, conduct additional searches on some of the jurors, if not all of them.  Doing so is not unscrupulous.  Only contacting them or their family and employers would be unscrupulous, but information we humans put out there in the ether, reputations we have, records we have created or have been created on us that are in the public domain are free game.  

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

By the Way, the questions on a juror questionaire are some standard ones the Court always asks and then questions submitted by both the Defense and the prosecution to the Court and then argued over before the Court agrees to include them.  the longest questinaire i was ever associated with amounted to 112 questions and it went out to a venire of 500 potential jurors.  How much of that information we really processed who can say, though we believe we had a handle on it all.

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

I have now been on the phone for an hour and 15 minutes with Kaiser Permanente.  They called me to tell me there is a billing problem.  It was an auto-call.  When I went through their phone tree I got an operator, finally.  Three operators and an hour later we are finally getting to the fact that the billing error is their fault and on their end.  Frankly I have a bit of a murderous rage going at Kaiser right now.

[Strike 5,195]

Are they planning an all male jury?   Otherwise it may not be very well hung.

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

3 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

Sooooo what happens if luigi mangione is tried but a jury refuses to convict? All it takes is ONE person who had a family member focked over by the insurance companies to hang a jury. Do they keep trying him till they get a verdict or does he walk. If he walked would trump order the justice department to file charges? 

I think he would be allowed to go out and kill any CEO he wants then, you know cause of double-jeopardy laws. 

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

Are they planning an all male jury?   Otherwise it may not be very well hung.

And no Irish or Chinese.

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

They only get to dismiss a certain amount of people.  I'm willing to bet that anyone who was focked over or had a family member focked over by an insurer would pay to get on that jury.

Judge can dismiss people too though, so if the judge were to find out that a person had a conflict of interest, he could boot them and lawyers wouldn't lose a strike. 

[Engorgeous George 2,137]

1 hour ago, Mike Honcho said:

Judge can dismiss people too though, so if the judge were to find out that a person had a conflict of interest, he could boot them and lawyers wouldn't lose a strike. 

Most jurisdictions have an unlimited number of challenges for cause.  It is the preemptory strikes which are of limited number, those are the strikes where one just sort of has a bad feeling, though that bad feeling better not be about a person of color, see Batson challenges.

 

 

What is a Batson Challenge? | Appeals Law Group

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

When they find him guilty they should just play this...
 

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

Judge can dismiss people too though, so if the judge were to find out that a person had a conflict of interest, he could boot them and lawyers wouldn't lose a strike. 

Sure, but do you really think all of the potential jurors are going to tip their hand and be dismissed?  Like I said, it only takes 1 to get through.