I'm out on Shedeur

[GobbleDog 976]

Entitled -vs- Confident   

I still think Sanders will be more successful than Ward. We shall see... I'll bump this in 3 years and have your plate of crow ready for ya.

 

[kilroy69 1,215]

I have a hard time believing that Jerry would pass on him and the chance to bring the Sanders show to Dallas. Even with Dak signed. 

[nobody 2,555]

2 hours ago, GobbleDog said:

Entitled -vs- Confident   

I still think Sanders will be more successful than Ward. We shall see... I'll bump this in 3 years and have your plate of crow ready for ya.

 

Most likely scenario is neither QB is all that good.

People always seem to forget the hit rate even in the first round is like 50%.  That's why I do t understand why you guys always buy the hype that every player is good.  We see 15-20 busts every year in the first round.

[GobbleDog 976]

14 minutes ago, nobody said:

Most likely scenario is neither QB is all that good.

People always seem to forget the hit rate even in the first round is like 50%.  That's why I do t understand why you guys always buy the hype that every player is good.  We see 15-20 busts every year in the first round.

True. I didn't buy the Anthony Richardson hype after watching him play for my Gators. I was surprised he even went pro that year, let alone 4th overall. That was bananas.

To be honest I watched way more of Sanders than I did of Ward this year, so maybe the scouts are right on this one, but to my eyes Sanders looked incredible despite a terrible o-line.

[Ray_T 739]

15 hours ago, nobody said:

Most likely scenario is neither QB is all that good.

People always seem to forget the hit rate even in the first round is like 50%.  That's why I do t understand why you guys always buy the hype that every player is good.  We see 15-20 busts every year in the first round.

I'm not saying hes a hit.   for me it actually depends on where he lands and how they build out the offense around him.

I think a good coach/organization can make it work.      a subpar coach/organization probably wont.

 

[kilroy69 1,215]

I am betting(literally) that he goes at 4. I think the saints freak out and trade up. 

[GobbleDog 976]

12 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I am betting(literally) that he goes at 4. I think the saints freak out and trade up. 

Seems to have a wide variance... seen mocks where Sanders goes 2, 3 or 4, seen mocks going late 1st. 

If I were betting, I'd pick early as well.

[Ray_T 739]

4 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I am betting(literally) that he goes at 4. I think the saints freak out and trade up. 

you think he goes that high?

I think the best case scenario is a Dak Prescott type player.     good enough to get you to the playoffs, not good enough to win a superbowl unless the team around him is superb.

and there isnt even a guarantee that he achieves the best case scenario.    Dak has holes in his game.   he was drafted in the 4th round because of those holes in his game, but landed in the perfect offense that is able to hide/cover most of his flaws as a player.

Granted I thought at the time the cowboys got a steal in round 4.  I felt at the time he should have been drafted in round 2-3 but we are splitting hairs with respect to QB value.

the bottom line is he was not a first round pick.

my thought is that this kid throws a bit better but doesnt run as well as dak did at this point in his career.   He probably should be drafted early 2nd or late first round.   I think the only reason we are talking about early round 1 is because we have a weak draft class.

Hes a player who has a decent chance to develop into a good pro QB but I dont think his ceiling is high enough to warrant a top 8 pick.   Certainly not top 3.

but as we all know, all it takes is for one team to love him and that's enough.

if that team is New Orleans so be it.   Personally if it was me I'd see if he slides in the draft.   right now if the titans, browns and Giants pass I think there is a 50% chance they can get him at #9.   only team likely to take him after that is the Raiders at 6.   But they have a QB now so maybe they wait.

the biggest threat is that the browns or the giants trade back a few spots and then take him there.   I'd say the odds of that happening is greater than the odds of the Raiders taking him at 6.

I could, of course be wrong.    but the most QB needy teams are picking top 3.    problem is.... the cost to trade into the top 3 if you are sitting at #9 like the saints is probably way too high.

 

[Showboat 252]

3 hours ago, Ray_T said:

if that team is New Orleans so be it.   Personally if it was me I'd see if he slides in the draft.   right now if the titans, browns and Giants pass I think there is a 50% chance they can get him at #9.   only team likely to take him after that is the Raiders at 6.   But they have a QB now so maybe they wait.

the biggest threat is that the browns or the giants trade back a few spots and then take him there.   I'd say the odds of that happening is greater than the odds of the Raiders taking him at 6.

I could, of course be wrong.    but the most QB needy teams are picking top 3.    problem is.... the cost to trade into the top 3 if you are sitting at #9 like the saints is probably way too high.

 

Even if there is no team likely to take him 4-8, the reason the Saints might want to move up is to prevent someone else from jumping in front of them.  As you said, it really just depends if any team has decided Sanders is their guy.  We'll know soon.

[Ray_T 739]

5 hours ago, Showboat said:

Even if there is no team likely to take him 4-8, the reason the Saints might want to move up is to prevent someone else from jumping in front of them.  As you said, it really just depends if any team has decided Sanders is their guy.  We'll know soon.

well, the Saints passed on him.   now the question is where does he go in round 2.   I do think a trade up in round 2 is possible.   Maybe even likely.   It will be interesting to see how far he falls.   If the saints were thinking about taking him, their patience has likely paid off.    They now can get him for a very reasonable price and if his dad starts giving them a headache as a helicopter parent, they can just trade him or sit him.  (or release him outright)

[Ray_T 739]

wow  this has turned into a freefall for the kid.   I do feel bad for him.  Hes talented enough that he should be off the board, but I think this is his dads fault.

I think hes likely to yap in the coach and GM's ear if he doesnt like the way his son is handled and then likely to yap to the media.   Not an element you want in your dressing room I think.    and I dont think the Tape on Sheduer was good enough that I'd be willing to let that go.

though now hes at a point where a team needs to use a 4th on him.   at that price as a team you can walk away from him if he doesnt pan out or if his dad gets too annoying.

I'm sure someone takes a chance on him soon.

the Browns who everyone thought wanted him were quoted as saying hes a nice prospect but sometimes its about 'fit'.    I think that says it all.

[JagFan 149]

This has to be a combination of things…Dion, and the kid is less than humble.  I just don’t think teams want the headache.  

[weepaws 3,148]

Teams will ignore headaches, if they have great talent, I think teams are passing on the talent.  Or lack of nfl talent.  

[JagFan 149]

4 hours ago, weepaws said:

Teams will ignore headaches, if they have great talent, I think teams are passing on the talent.  Or lack of nfl talent.  

That can’t be it because Colorado ALREADY retired his jersey .  This is a circus, and his daddy, the ringleader, is giving a textbook lesson on how not to act pre draft and mid draft.  This couldn’t be happening to a better bunch of narcissists.

[ICEMAN 41]

8 hours ago, weepaws said:

Teams will ignore headaches, if they have great talent, I think teams are passing on the talent.  Or lack of nfl talent.  

I agree. When making decisions that affect so many people and huge amounts of money, you can't risk brining on a headache without the corresponding talent level. This kid's father has not done him any favors on the personality side of things (hubris, God Complex etc...) either. People have rightfully been turned off by both of them. Have some humility.

ICEMAN

[GobbleDog 976]

Unbelievable... into the 4th rd.  Has to be a mix of reasons -  talent not as great as some thought (me included), coaches worried about Prime stealing their jobs after a season, entitled jerk, and finally Sanders just being a douche during team interviews as reported by several leaks. 

At this point, the further he drops the funnier it gets.  Never seen a player so "highly rated" fall this far.  Might provide him some much needed humility.

[TBayXXXVII 2,480]

UFA?

[SaintsInDome2006 373]

9 hours ago, weepaws said:

Teams will ignore headaches, if they have great talent, I think teams are passing on the talent.  Or lack of nfl talent.  

I'm thinking the film work didn't go well. 

[Ray_T 739]

56 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Unbelievable... into the 4th rd.  Has to be a mix of reasons -  talent not as great as some thought (me included), coaches worried about Prime stealing their jobs after a season, entitled jerk, and finally Sanders just being a douche during team interviews as reported by several leaks. 

At this point, the further he drops the funnier it gets.  Never seen a player so "highly rated" fall this far.  Might provide him some much needed humility.

well, I'm a bit surprised hes fallen THIS far but not entirely surprised.

his scouting report read a lot like that of Dak Prescott when he came into the league.   and Dak was a 4th round pick that landed in the perfect situation where the team around him was able to cover his flaws long enough for him to develop the rest of his game to a good level.

granted at the time Dak was drafted I thought he should have gone in round 2 or early round 3 so I thought the boys got a deal.    but Dak didnt have the sense of entitlement that this guy had.   he was a lot more coachable and didnt have a mouthpiece for a dad that was likely to become a coach/gm nightmare.

So I was not totally surprised that he was not a first round pick.   but usually there is a team or two out there that ignore those red flags and spend a first anyway.   so I figured it was 50-50 that this scenario plays out.    What I'm surprised about is that we are now halfway into round 4 and hes not taken.    but maybe the thing with his old man is worse than we know.  maybe the guy is badgering GM's and such and they just want none of that.

either way this is no longer about his talent.  this is about the off field stuff now.   and perhaps his coachability.

[gcmmidwest 149]

Props to the guys on here that nailed it

[Mike FF Today 721]

Cleveland ends the slide. Takes Sanders with pick 5.06. 

[jrokh 608]

So after all the drama Shedeur is QB4 on a bad team?

[weepaws 3,148]

Possible that they change his position? 

[JagFan 149]

6 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Possible that they change his position? 

To what, owner? 

[nobody 2,555]

It's possible he's just a mid qb that everyone thinks is good because his dad is a pr engine and keeps saying he's legendary and the media agrees because they don't want to get on deion's bad side.  If he wasn't deion's kid, I don't think he would've been touted like he was... Which let's be real is why you all think he's so good.

[weepaws 3,148]

43 minutes ago, JagFan said:

To what, owner? 

Browns fans might be happy with that.  

[Ray_T 739]

58 minutes ago, nobody said:

It's possible he's just a mid qb that everyone thinks is good because his dad is a pr engine and keeps saying he's legendary and the media agrees because they don't want to get on deion's bad side.  If he wasn't deion's kid, I don't think he would've been touted like he was... Which let's be real is why you all think he's so good.

possibly.

though from what I saw he didnt look like a first round player.

he looked like a 2nd round player with some upside.   Not bad mind you.   quite a few players who fit into that category inevitably were drafted in the first round.   its the off field stuff that likely prevented this from happening..

 

 

[nobody 2,555]

I agree off field stuff was a contributor.  Not sure why people think folks who are obviously going to have attitude issues are entitled to being hired.

I mean if you were hiring someone, and you came across an average candidate that insisted he was awesome, his dad came along and insisted he was awesome.  And it was obvious that anytime this employee didn't get what he wanted, he would cause problems and his dad would come around trying to get you fired, would you hire this person?

[JagFan 149]

3 hours ago, nobody said:

I agree off field stuff was a contributor.  Not sure why people think folks who are obviously going to have attitude issues are entitled to being hired.

I mean if you were hiring someone, and you came across an average candidate that insisted he was awesome, his dad came along and insisted he was awesome.  And it was obvious that anytime this employee didn't get what he wanted, he would cause problems and his dad would come around trying to get you fired, would you hire this person?

I heard he and his dad both showed up for the interviews in tuxedos….oh wait, I may be thinking of Step Brothers 

[gcmmidwest 149]

How do you take a pay cut from college to NFL

[Gepetto 1,285]

8 hours ago, jrokh said:

So after all the drama Shedeur is QB4 on a bad team?

I think he's QB1 on Cleveland.

[Maximum Overkill 1,738]

3 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I think he's QB1 on Cleveland.

Agree. They got their QB1 in the fifth round. No guaranteed money and can release him at anytime. Great value! 

[Ray_T 739]

5 hours ago, nobody said:

I agree off field stuff was a contributor.  Not sure why people think folks who are obviously going to have attitude issues are entitled to being hired.

I mean if you were hiring someone, and you came across an average candidate that insisted he was awesome, his dad came along and insisted he was awesome.  And it was obvious that anytime this employee didn't get what he wanted, he would cause problems and his dad would come around trying to get you fired, would you hire this person?

you know the answer to that is a hard NO.   but pro football is different apparently lol

[Ray_T 739]

33 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I think he's QB1 on Cleveland.

I dont know about that.  This is not a given.     Kid still isnt a finished product.

if hes coachable he could be the starter by mid season, but I think a red shirt year may be in order. (big IF)......

if hes not coachable, Flacco will not be unseated until the team is eliminated from the playoffs and it may not even be Sheduer who unseats him.

If Flacco has the team in a position to make the playoffs, They will continue to roll with him.

Thats how I'd play it as a coach/gm.

I'm not a fan of just giving a starting job to anyone.  They need to earn it by unseating a veteran who is still a capable starter in this league.

 

[Gepetto 1,285]

14 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I dont know about that.  This is not a given.     Kid still isnt a finished product.

if hes coachable he could be the starter by mid season, but I think a red shirt year may be in order. (big IF)......

if hes not coachable, Flacco will not be unseated until the team is eliminated from the playoffs and it may not even be Sheduer who unseats him.

If Flacco has the team in a position to make the playoffs, They will continue to roll with him.

Thats how I'd play it as a coach/gm.

I'm not a fan of just giving a starting job to anyone.  They need to earn it by unseating a veteran who is still a capable starter in this league.

 

I'm not saying Cleveland should just anoint Shedueur #1 and they won't do that. I agree with how you say it could play out. Flacco was great during the regular season, but then he blew it in that playoff game. He throws too many INTs. Shedeur does not. It's a whole new level for Sanders so it will be fun to watch how he plays when he gets a chance.

[weepaws 3,148]

I think the Browns made another bad decision at the Qb slot.  

[gridiron whirlwinds 9]

Browns fan here.

I must say that I am happy just because there was some value in the pick...he slid until the 5th round.....any issues boot him out and no big deal.

That is a big deal if you spend an early round draft pick on him.

I did not like the Browns spending a 3rd round draft pick on Gabriel....way to soon to draft him IMO. At that point in the draft the safety from ND would have benefited us more...again just my opinion.

I am not a huge fan of Sanders, but if anyone should be humbled and have a chip on his shoulder, it should be him.

He will have a wonderful mentor in Cleveland in Joe Flacco. The question to whether Sanders can succeed or not, well I believe that is entirely up to him.

You can put your head down and work or you can go the other direction, that will be on him.

But as far where he was drafted, I have issues with that at all.

[Maximum Overkill 1,738]

1 hour ago, gridiron whirlwinds said:

Browns fan here.

I must say that I am happy just because there was some value in the pick...he slid until the 5th round.....any issues boot him out and no big deal.

That is a big deal if you spend an early round draft pick on him.

I did not like the Browns spending a 3rd round draft pick on Gabriel....way to soon to draft him IMO. At that point in the draft the safety from ND would have benefited us more...again just my opinion.

I am not a huge fan of Sanders, but if anyone should be humbled and have a chip on his shoulder, it should be him.

He will have a wonderful mentor in Cleveland in Joe Flacco. The question to whether Sanders can succeed or not, well I believe that is entirely up to him.

You can put your head down and work or you can go the other direction, that will be on him.

But as far where he was drafted, I have issues with that at all.

I also didn't understand the Gabriel pick, I would of drafted McCord long ahead of him. But I do love the Sanders pick at 5th round value. He was heralded as the QB2 all off-season and obviously fell for character issues, mostly being a spoiled brat. The talent is still there. 

The 5th round is amazing value. He has no guaranteed money and can be released at anytime without penalty. That's if he makes the team, which he will. 

And I love love love the Judkins pick. Cleveland got their Chubb 2.0. 

[Ray_T 739]

14 hours ago, gridiron whirlwinds said:

I must say that I am happy just because there was some value in the pick...he slid until the 5th round.....any issues boot him out and no big deal.

fully agree.    5th rounders get cut reasonably often in real life.     so the risks are no different than drafting a regular 5th rounder, but the potential upside is better.

the Browns have been a train wreck of a franchise for some time.    might as well go for the potential 5th round pick that can become a home run.

13 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I also didn't understand the Gabriel pick

me neither.

but in the end, 2 QBs were taken deep enough in the draft that if one of them doesnt pan out, nobody will blink an eye.

at least they have 2 lotto picks and didnt have to spend a first or second round pick on either.

if either of them turn into a starter, the team is in good shape.   if neither of them turn into a starter, its a loss, but not a big loss.    certainly not franchise altering like the Deseaun Trade.

and if either become a starter, they are on rookie contracts so they can afford to eat the Deseaun contract at that point. (mostly)   and if Neither becomes a starter, Joe Flacco is good enough to keep the team in the hunt.    if they actually make the playoffs, do you really care that Flacco doesnt get them to the superbowl?   people have been expecting this team to be the sad sack of the league until Desean's contract runs out.

so its a win for Cleveland if they even get a sniff of the playoffs.

sure you wanna win a superbowl, but you gotta put this in perspective.   I'd say given the dead money to Watson, a trip to the playoffs is a big win for this team.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,903]

The Browns made the playoffs in 2023.