Minnesota

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

"Renee Good’s former father-in-law tells CNN he does NOT blame ICE for her death and says she would not have been there if she were walking in the Spirit of God."

From CNN interview

[dogcows 1,441]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

"Renee Good’s former father-in-law tells CNN he does NOT blame ICE for her death and says she would not have been there if she were walking in the Spirit of God."

From CNN interview

Put this guy in the hall of fame for shitty in-laws.

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

Put this guy in the hall of fame for shitty in-laws.

Basically saying, make better life decisions.

[HellToupee 2,389]

[TimHauck 3,521]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

"Renee Good’s former father-in-law tells CNN he does NOT blame ICE for her death and says she would not have been there if she were walking in the Spirit of God."

From CNN interview

Many people don’t like their current in-laws, I’m sure many more don’t like their “former” in-laws

[FrancieFootball 378]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I've never considered conservatives to be the type to riot and burn cities down.  The left has gone so far left that I'm starting to sound like a far right goon.  It's terrible and that's why I voted for Trump, as much as I despised it.

My issue is MAGAs automatically labeling these rioters as liberals just because they're rioting against ICE. 

Or because of George Floyd.

Or because Rodney King.

They don't get that certain elements of society are opportunists take advantage of these situations to engage in messing with police, looting, vandalizing, assaulting people and setting stuff on fire.

Sure, some of the protesters are politically motivated or simply angry because of the ICE activity in their community. 

But this wouldn't be happening if ICE agents weren't there handling matters the way they have. An innocent woman was murdered here, and the agent who killed her didn't follow a basic rule of not stepping in front of a vehicle, particularly in a tense situation as this.

But the most despicable thing here is that Trump sent ICE there out of vindictiveness for Minnesota voting against him three times. He is on record of expressing butt hurt over it and claiming that he actually won, which is insane. 

If we want to cast a big ol' blanket, look no further than Jan. 6, one of this country's most disgraceful moments, and yet MAGAs deny, deflect and whatabout that shameful day.

One thing is for sure: Trump is in the middle of all of it.

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Many people don’t like their current in-laws, I’m sure many more don’t like their “former” in-laws

And sometimes the cold hard truth hurts.

[easilyscan 1,117]

3 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Woman Protester: I'm a physicians assistant and make 200 K a year. How focking petty is that ?

ICE officer: I graduated high school and make 200 K a year. Priceless!

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

Just now, FrancieFootball said:

My issue is MAGAs automatically labeling these rioters as liberals just because they're rioting against ICE. 

Or because of George Floyd.

Or because Rodney King.

They don't get that certain elements of society are opportunists take advantage of these situations to engage in messing with police, looting, vandalizing, assaulting people and setting stuff on fire.

Sure, some of the protesters are politically motivated or simply angry because of the ICE activity in their community. 

But this wouldn't be happening if ICE agents weren't there handling matters the way they have. An innocent woman was murdered here, and the agent who killed her didn't follow a basic rule of not stepping in front of a vehicle, particularly in a tense situation as this.

But the most despicable thing here is that Trump sent ICE there out of vindictiveness for Minnesota voting against him three times. He is on record of expressing butt hurt over it and claiming that he actually won, which is insane. 

If we want to cast a big ol' blanket, look no further than Jan. 6, one of this country's most disgraceful moments, and yet MAGAs deny, deflect and whatabout that shameful day.

One thing is for sure: Trump is in the middle of all of it.

I don't like the generalizations either.  I've seen all conservatives called MAGA and all MAGA called Nazis.  I've been called a liberal and MAGA on this very site.

[TBayXXXVII 2,690]

25 minutes ago, dogcows said:

I know there is a lot of quibbling about the particulars of the law. I want to move beyond that.

I have seen far more troublesome people handled FAR better by law enforcement. I really think the behavior towards Ms. Good was over-the-top and unnecessary. And it led to a death.

And it appears to be a pattern. Just yesterday I saw video of ICE agents leaving, and chucking out tear gas grenades on their way out. Like... they're leaving, there is no reason to do that whatsoever. In another video, they tell a woman to "go home" and she says "I have to go to an appointment" and they ignore her and start to yell at her, then cut her out of her car and drag her down the street? They are out of control.

The training does NOT match what they are being asked to do, and it's leading to unnecessary tragic outcomes. This ICE operation is harming people for no good reason.

Yeah, the liberal mayors and governors are to blame for this.

[Sean Mooney 2,099]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Once an officer tells you to get out of your vehicle because they are going to detain or arrest you, they legally can forcefully remove you.  They can detain or arrest you for obstruction, alluding, resisting, battery, traffic infractions and not providing your ID, insurance or registration along a number of other reasons. 

Mooney, I recommend you do more research on this or you might find yourself getting arrested because you think you're in the right when you are actually in the wrong.  Don't be like the crazy sovereign citizens.

The law on this is murkier than you and the others seem to want it to be. Case in point- what threat did she pose? What was she stopped for? (keep in mind the car was stopped)....like there is a lot of stuff here.

 

Otherwise- while I appreciate your concern....I generally don't actively try to run afoul of the cops in any way. And if I ever decide to it sure as hell won't be for the reason Good was trying to. So I'll be good

[TBayXXXVII 2,690]

6 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

My issue is MAGAs automatically labeling these rioters as liberals just because they're rioting against ICE. 

Or because of George Floyd.

Or because Rodney King.

They don't get that certain elements of society are opportunists take advantage of these situations to engage in messing with police, looting, vandalizing, assaulting people and setting stuff on fire.

Sure, some of the protesters are politically motivated or simply angry because of the ICE activity in their community. 

But this wouldn't be happening if ICE agents weren't there handling matters the way they have. An innocent woman was murdered here, and the agent who killed her didn't follow a basic rule of not stepping in front of a vehicle, particularly in a tense situation as this.

But the most despicable thing here is that Trump sent ICE there out of vindictiveness for Minnesota voting against him three times. He is on record of expressing butt hurt over it and claiming that he actually won, which is insane. 

If we want to cast a big ol' blanket, look no further than Jan. 6, one of this country's most disgraceful moments, and yet MAGAs deny, deflect and whatabout that shameful day.

One thing is for sure: Trump is in the middle of all of it.

I love the irony of you lableing a group of people for labeling people.  

[cyclone24 1,975]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I love the irony of you lableing a group of people for labeling people.  

They have no self-awareness whatsoever. They’ve been calling us, Nazis and fascist and every other name under the book for 10 years. And then if you label them at all? Now they don’t like it. Too bad.

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

The law on this is murkier than you and the others seem to want it to be. Case in point- what threat did she pose? What was she stopped for? (keep in mind the car was stopped)....like there is a lot of stuff here.

 

Otherwise- while I appreciate your concern....I generally don't actively try to run afoul of the cops in any way. And if I ever decide to it sure as hell won't be for the reason Good was trying to. So I'll be good

Stopped?  As in, stopped in the middle of the street, sideways?  That's enough right there.

[Strike 6,148]

Mooney digging the hole deeper!!!!  

[TBayXXXVII 2,690]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Mooney digging the hole deeper!!!!  

I read that and said, "wtf is this dude smoking".  

[Gladiators 2,046]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Mooney digging the hole deeper!!!!  

 

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I read that and said, "wtf is this dude smoking".  

Maybe one of the kids took his phone.

[FrancieFootball 378]

9 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I love the irony of you lableing a group of people for labeling people.  

So MAGAs didn't label themselves as such? 

You missed my point about casting the violent label over conservatives because of the actions of a knucklehead end of that political spectrum. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,690]

12 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The law on this is murkier than you and the others seem to want it to be. Case in point- what threat did she pose? What was she stopped for? (keep in mind the car was stopped)....like there is a lot of stuff here.

 

Otherwise- while I appreciate your concern....I generally don't actively try to run afoul of the cops in any way. And if I ever decide to it sure as hell won't be for the reason Good was trying to. So I'll be good

Point to the murky parts for me... here's a few links (from lawyers [one, the ACLU]):

https://steelelawmn.com/can-i-refuse-to-leave-my-vehicle-if-stopped-by-law-enforcement/

https://www.aclusocal.org/know-your-rights/when-stopped-officer/

https://frizwoods.com/blog/can-police-order-me-out-of-car

 

When ordered to get out of the a vehicle by law enforcement, what do these 3 ALL say to do and what do they ALL say what you're legally obligated to do?

 

Directly from one of those sites:
"The law allows police officers to order drivers and passengers out of a vehicle during a traffic stop to ensure officer safety. While this may feel intrusive, the courts have ruled that this action is a reasonable and minimal intrusion compared to the potential dangers officers face during these interactions."

[TBayXXXVII 2,690]

3 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

So MAGAs didn't label themselves as such? 

You missed my point about casting the violent label over conservatives because of the actions of a knucklehead end of that political spectrum. 

You are so full of crap, you're hair is brown.

[FrancieFootball 378]

15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, the liberal mayors and governors are to blame for this.

There is nothing wrong with there being liberal mayors and governors.

That's what the voters wanted in this democracy we have.

Texas and Florida have the second and third highest numbers of unauthorized immigrants, respectively.

Minnesota ranks 25th.

Trump sending ICE to kick ass in Minnesota is based on butthurt, vindictiveness and politics, plain and simple. 

My bet is that he sent these poorly trained ICE goons into Minneapolis, knowing the place is sensitive to this kind of thing and that he will use the rioting as an excuse to use the Insurrection Act to send in the military.

[FrancieFootball 378]

8 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You are so full of crap, you're hair is brown.

Were Trump supporters responsible for Jan. 6, and do you condemn their violence?

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

5 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

There is nothing wrong with there being liberal mayors and governors.

That's what the voters wanted in this democracy we have.

Texas and Florida have the second and third highest numbers of unauthorized immigrants, respectively.

Minnesota ranks 25th.

Trump sending ICE to kick ass in Minnesota is based on butthurt, vindictiveness and politics, plain and simple. 

My bet is that he sent these poorly trained ICE goons into Minneapolis, knowing the place is sensitive to this kind of thing and that he will use the rioting as an excuse to use the Insurrection Act to send in the military.

They're "sensitive" because they're a bunch of diluted, whackos.

[Reality 3,178]

32 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

Maybe one of the kids took his phone.

You almost want to feel bad for him but, then you remember he's a massive piece of shlt who can't admit when he's wrong.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,690]

15 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

Were Trump supporters responsible for Jan. 6, and do you condemn their violence?

Yes, I blame those people for their stupidity.  I also blame liberals for theirs, how about you... or is it always Trump's fault?  I blame liberal governors and mayors for telling their constituents to impede officers from conducting legal operations.  How about you?  I'm guessing to you, that's Trump's fault too.

 

I like you're "Yeah but"/"Whataboutism", instead of saying that the liberal elected officials are part of the problem, as is their base.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,245]

44 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The law on this is murkier than you and the others seem to want it to be. Case in point- what threat did she pose? What was she stopped for? (keep in mind the car was stopped)....like there is a lot of stuff here.

 

Otherwise- while I appreciate your concern....I generally don't actively try to run afoul of the cops in any way. And if I ever decide to it sure as hell won't be for the reason Good was trying to. So I'll be good

You’ll be good as long as you take your meds

[FrancieFootball 378]

10 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They're "sensitive" because they're a bunch of diluted, whackos.

I rest my case.

Also, it's "deluded," unless you're referring to the lack of Nazi-like racial purity.

[FrancieFootball 378]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yes, I blame those people for their stupidity.  I also blame liberals for theirs, how about you... or is it always Trump's fault?  I blame liberal governors and mayors for telling their constituents to impede officers from conducting legal operations.  How about you?  I'm guessing to you, that's Trump's fault too.

 

I like you're "Yeah but"/"Whataboutism", instead of saying that the liberal elected officials are part of the problem, as is their base.

I don't condone violence and rioting, but I don't jump to conclusions about the political affliations of those behind it. 

Which mayor and governor told their constituents to "impede officers from conducting legal operations?"

That's not the same thing as telling ICE to leave.

[Sean Mooney 2,099]

48 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Stopped?  As in, stopped in the middle of the street, sideways?  That's enough right there.

Nobody could get around her? I mean look- if we are just going to ignore the video at this point...fine. 

Who car is the one in front of her's? Is it the girlfriend's? Cause she's blocking traffic more than Good was. 

36 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Point to the murky parts for me... here's a few links (from lawyers [one, the ACLU]):

https://steelelawmn.com/can-i-refuse-to-leave-my-vehicle-if-stopped-by-law-enforcement/

https://www.aclusocal.org/know-your-rights/when-stopped-officer/

https://frizwoods.com/blog/can-police-order-me-out-of-car

 

When ordered to get out of the a vehicle by law enforcement, what do these 3 ALL say to do and what do they ALL say what you're legally obligated to do?

 

Directly from one of those sites:
"The law allows police officers to order drivers and passengers out of a vehicle during a traffic stop to ensure officer safety. While this may feel intrusive, the courts have ruled that this action is a reasonable and minimal intrusion compared to the potential dangers officers face during these interactions."

I'm glad you posted sites that clearly point out things I've either outright said or alluded to in this discussion. You guys are hilarious at this point. Please keep arguing with yourselves. 

The short answer is- from all the videos it does not feel like at any point they had belief or proof she was violating immigration law or general concern's about their own safety. Again- I've only ever said the law is murkier about forcibly removing you from a vehicle.

 

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

Nobody could get around her? I mean look- if we are just going to ignore the video at this point...fine. 

Who car is the one in front of her's? Is it the girlfriend's? Cause she's blocking traffic more than Good was. 

I'm glad you posted sites that clearly point out things I've either outright said or alluded to in this discussion. You guys are hilarious at this point. Please keep arguing with yourselves. 

 

Is it legal to park your vehicle perpendicular in the middle of a street?

What about anything she did do you find acceptable behavior?

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

14 minutes ago, FrancieFootball said:

I rest my case.

Also, it's "deluded," unless you're referring to the lack of Nazi-like racial purity.

I misspelled it and it autocorrected to that.  Oh well.

[Sean Mooney 2,099]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Is it legal to park your vehicle perpendicular in the middle of a street?

What about anything she did do you find acceptable behavior?

I already posted about this last week (and the thread seems to have been nuked). I gave her blame for things.

I'm okay with her protesting ICE's actions. I think she should've chose different methods to do it. 

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I already posted about this last week (and the thread seems to have been nuked). I gave her blame for things.

I'm okay with her protesting ICE's actions. I think she should've chose different methods to do it. 

Well, those things she did that you admit were wrong are legal reasons for officers to stop her and ask her to exit the car.  I'm glad we're all on the same page now.

[dogcows 1,441]

5 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I already posted about this last week (and the thread seems to have been nuked). I gave her blame for things.

I'm okay with her protesting ICE's actions. I think she should've chose different methods to do it. 

A car blocking a lane simply didn’t justify the response from ICE. Even if they hadn’t shot her, they were ready to drag her out of her car? For blocking a lane of traffic? 

Most cops aren’t drunk with power. These ones definitely were. Why couldn’t they do what most of us would do? Roll your eyes at the horn honking lady and move on with your life. Hell if you’re feeling extra spicy, give ‘em the finger as you drive around…

But nah they needed to go full Cartman and make her RESPECT MA AUTHORITAHHH

IMO when DHS defends this kind of thing, they just encourage the worst officers to double down on their shitty behavior. While giving the entire force a bad name.

And in the end, they just ended up blocking traffic for a much longer time. Abject failure in policing.

[Hawkeye21 2,471]

8 minutes ago, dogcows said:

A car blocking a lane simply didn’t justify the response from ICE. Even if they hadn’t shot her, they were ready to drag her out of her car? For blocking a lane of traffic? 

Most cops aren’t drunk with power. These ones definitely were. Why couldn’t they do what most of us would do? Roll your eyes at the horn honking lady and move on with your life. Hell if you’re feeling extra spicy, give ‘em the finger as you drive around…

But nah they needed to go full Cartman and make her RESPECT MA AUTHORITAHHH

IMO when DHS defends this kind of thing, they just encourage the worst officers to double down on their shitty behavior. While giving the entire force a bad name.

And in the end, they just ended up blocking traffic for a much longer time. Abject failure in policing.

Just stop with this BS.  She was there to antagonize ICE.  She was breaking the law.  They gave her a lawful order to exit her vehicle and she refused.  They tried to get her out forcefully and then she tried to drive away and struck an officer.  Everything she did was wrong.  Stop making excuses for these people.

[jerryskids 7,271]

1 hour ago, Sean Mooney said:

The law on this is murkier than you and the others seem to want it to be. Case in point- what threat did she pose? What was she stopped for? (keep in mind the car was stopped)....like there is a lot of stuff here.

 

 

5 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Your solution fails on several fronts.  One, it does nothing about her riding her horn, which is announcing to potentially violent illegal aliens that ICE is here, thus putting the safety and mission of ICE at risk.  Two, driving around a parked SUV in the middle of the street is fine until there is an emergency -- say the illegal alien hops in his car and flees, or an ambulance is needed.  

I never saw your response to why your "they could just let her sit there riding her horn and impeding traffic" solution didn't work.

She was stopped for the purpose of riding her horn, impeding traffic, and goading ICE agents while they were performing their duties.  Is this a trick question?