So Repubs begin repeal of ACA....

[Hardcore troubadour 12,783]

All you old timers arguing about healthcare.

 

Seriously though, was it always this complicated? How did they do things lets say, back in the 60's perhaps?

 

Is it just another thing the Libs over regulated and now we are in a sh!t storm? Seems to be the trend.

I can give a little input. The concept of employer provided healthcare came into being post WW2. There was a lot of competition for workers at the time, so as an incentive to attract and retain employees, employers offered to pay for health insurance. It actually cost them less to provide the health insurance than pay more money in wages. They would get a group rate as opposed to an individual purchasing one. The concept quickly spread to most employers, private and public.

[NewbieJr 540]

 

You do realize I already admitted to not knowing much about healthcare? It is one of the rare subjects I don't know much about, and at this point in my life I don't care to. I think I have been to the doctor once in the last 8 years.

 

I was honestly asking a question, clearly my liberal comment struck a nerve with you. Maybe you should quit being a little whiny b!tch and grow a pair.

 

I could do circles around you old man, don't make me embarrass you.

do circles? As in like running laps? You're probably right. I don't do a whole bunch of cardio.

[iam90sbaby 2,134]

do circles? As in like running laps? You're probably right. I don't do a whole bunch of cardio.

Running laps, sports, picking up chicks, work ethic, my job, you're job, etc...

 

You got me on healthcare though.

[penultimatestraw 473]

All you old timers arguing about healthcare.

 

Seriously though, was it always this complicated? How did they do things lets say, back in the 60's perhaps?

 

Is it just another thing the Libs over regulated and now we are in a sh!t storm? Seems to be the trend.

This guy gets it. Get rid of insurers altogether, and let doctors decide how much they charge and collect. Let's really let the free market determine how much we pay for healthcare!

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

You do realize I already admitted to not knowing much about healthcare? It is one of the rare subjects I don't know much about, and at this point in my life I don't care to. I think I have been to the doctor once in the last 8 years.

 

I was honestly asking a question, clearly my liberal comment struck a nerve with you. Maybe you should quit being a little whiny b!tch and grow a pair.

 

I could do circles around you old man, don't make me embarrass you.

It's fortunate that the things we do when young have little impact on our future health, and every disease/accident can be anticipated just in time to get the coverage you need.

[NewbieJr 540]

Running laps, sports, picking up chicks, work ethic, my job, you're job, etc...

 

You got me on healthcare though.

laps, yes. That's about it kid. Maybe if you go up about 20 more years to Baker Boy, you'll do better.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,783]

Running laps, sports, picking up chicks, work ethic, my job, you're job, etc...

 

You got me on healthcare though.

For the win

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Don't know. That's what I thought you'd say. You just answered the question of why we need universal healthcare.

 

Oh, and to answer the question, your dad would die without the cancer treatments

He did fine with health insurance prior to Obamacare. The problem arose when the govt. tries to mandate what insurance we need (people need to carry maternity coverage, etc) and what insurance companies need to provide. Those costs go directly to the customers. Just like the $15 minimum wage crap (hello less hours/more expensive food)......companies don't eat those costs; we do.

 

Only thing universal healthcare does accomplish is change who dies (those less fortunate).

[drobeski 3,061]

The electoral college isn't important and it's purpose has long since expired...why do you think no other country uses a system like it?

it was important enough to put Trump in office. Dumbo

[NewbieJr 540]

He did fine with health insurance prior to Obamacare. The problem arose when the govt. tries to mandate what insurance we need (people need to carry maternity coverage, etc) and what insurance companies need to provide. Those costs go directly to the customers. Just like the $15 minimum wage crap (hello less hours/more expensive food)......companies don't eat those costs; we do.

 

Only thing universal healthcare does accomplish is change who dies (those less fortunate).

LOL. Everyone does fine without health insurance if they stay healthy. The problem is, many people don't. And then they go to emergency rooms. And get treatments without ever having the means to pay for them. Which makes you and me pay more. Not having Insurance also makes people not go to the doctor when they should be going. So something small becomes something big. And very expensive. Again, for you and I to pay

[IGotWorms 3,357]

Most people get injured at some point.

 

Everyone gets sick at some point.

 

Everyone dies eventually.

 

I'd guess there are probably a few people out there who were healthy as an ox their whole life then died peacefully in their sleep at home without any hospital stay or anything.

 

But it's probably a pretty tiny sliver of the population. And those are the only people who truly never needed health insurance. And nobody knew it til they were dead.

[cyclone24 1,816]

Most people get injured at some point.

 

Everyone gets sick at some point.

 

Everyone dies eventually.

 

I'd guess there are probably a few people out there who were healthy as an ox their whole life then died peacefully in their sleep at home without any hospital stay or anything.

 

But it's probably a pretty tiny sliver of the population. And those are the only people who truly never needed health insurance. And nobody knew it til they were dead.

I think there are a lot of people that don't need a hospital or doctor that often. The problem is there's about 15 to 20% of the population that are using it constantly. That's what most folks have a problem with paying for over and over.

[IGotWorms 3,357]

I think there are a lot of people that don't need a hospital or doctor that often. The problem is there's about 15 to 20% of the population that are using it constantly. That's what most folks have a problem with paying for over and over.

You mean like the sick and the elderly?

 

Like you're never going to be one of them?

 

Sure, PRESENTLY you may not need health insurance but someday you will. Will you think that other people are paying for your care at that time?

[Sho Nuff 720]

Running laps, sports, picking up chicks, work ethic, my job, you're job, etc...

 

You got me on healthcare though.

Always love boastful internet guy. Good times

[Sho Nuff 720]

I think there are a lot of people that don't need a hospital or doctor that often. The problem is there's about 15 to 20% of the population that are using it constantly. That's what most folks have a problem with paying for over and over.

Most should go yearly but don't. Would catch more issues that develop into serious problems if they did.

[iam90sbaby 2,134]

Always love boastful internet guy. Good times

 

The board transgender. Good times.

 

Just curious, did you pay for operation or did that come out of the tax payers dollar?

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

The board transgender. Good times.

 

Just curious, did you pay for operation or did that come out of the tax payers dollar?

Sick burn man...

 

[gocolts 300]

LOL. Everyone does fine without health insurance if they stay healthy. The problem is, many people don't. And then they go to emergency rooms. And get treatments without ever having the means to pay for them. Which makes you and me pay more. Not having Insurance also makes people not go to the doctor when they should be going. So something small becomes something big. And very expensive. Again, for you and I to pay

 

While this is true, the ACA did not fix this problem of ER healthcare. In fact, it may have made it worse.

[gocolts 300]

All you old timers arguing about healthcare.

 

Seriously though, was it always this complicated? How did they do things lets say, back in the 60's perhaps?

 

Is it just another thing the Libs over regulated and now we are in a sh!t storm? Seems to be the trend.

 

They had trucks that drove through the streets collecting the dead bodies.

 

Similar to when abortion was illegal. You could not look down an alley in a big city at night without seeing some woman murdering her baby while still in the womb.

 

It was super bad.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Yup. Still the minority where it counts.

Huh. I was just thinking about it. That means the republican part has received more popular votes in ONE election since daddy bush left office in 1992.

 

That's kind of crazy.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

All you old timers arguing about healthcare.

 

Seriously though, was it always this complicated? How did they do things lets say, back in the 60's perhaps?

 

Is it just another thing the Libs over regulated and now we are in a sh!t storm? Seems to be the trend.

I would imagine if you compare the cost of medical care vs. median income in the 1960's versus today, you will see a stark difference.

 

Today a kidney stone outpatient procedure will set you back about 10k, after insurance pays. THAT is the problem. That is the true failure of the ACA. It didn't attack cost.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Only thing universal healthcare does accomplish is change who dies (those less fortunate).

Tell that to multiple countries around the world with universal coverage, yet longer life expectancy, infant mortality and maternal death rates.

 

Our healthcare can be the best in the world, but only if you have access to it.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,937]

Wifey changed jobs recently. Had major medical. Got a new job, the same. Spent six months at the new job. Had the same health insurance. Hated the new job and got hired back to her old job. Guess what, her health care benefits are ten times better. Why????? They eliminated Obamacare as a whole and are reemplemting their organization. Blue Care Blue Shield is going back to the plan they gab in place prior to the ACA. And it will be cheaper.

 

Eat a bag of d!cks Obama. I went from three grand, to seven grand, and now to four grand.

[Vince44 202]

Trump was right: Obamacare is a disaster.

[NewbieJr 540]

I would imagine if you compare the cost of medical care vs. median income in the 1960's versus today, you will see a stark difference.

 

Today a kidney stone outpatient procedure will set you back about 10k, after insurance pays. THAT is the problem. That is the true failure of the ACA. It didn't attack cost.

This. Solve the problem of greed, and everything else takes care of itself.

[cbfalcon 824]

THAT is the problem. That is the true failure of the ACA. It didn't attack cost.

 

Bingo....Quick story....

 

I am diabetic as a result of my other issues, but I had it super under control. 1 shot of Lantus per day, with zero adjustments to the dose or issues for more than a decade. In short, it has been a non issue in my life.....Then just over a year ago my insurance company stops covering Lantus. They switch me to a new drug and I go through 6 months of issues, losing feeling in hands and feet, developed a bunion, energy fell through the floor, lost weight. I don't feel as good as I felt on Lantus, but I at least eventually got it mostly under control. But....

 

According to my doc.......the patent on Lantus is expiring and a generic version is close to hitting the market, hence lower prices for me....So guess what happens? The pharmaceutical company (Sanofi) that owns Lantus pressures the insurance companies to stop covering Lantus in hopes of those patients being moved to a new drug that is under patent still, thus way more expensive. And I guess the pharmaceutical companies swing a big enough stick to pressure the insurance companies, meanwhile the super hot pharmaceutical sales girls work the doctors to get their new drug prescribed, and we the patients get bent over.

 

Here is a short opinion article about Lantus and lawsuits trying to block the generic, that I just found. It's not so much the specifics, as much as it's just that this is the way the medical industry works. I've dealt with a few versions of this story in my lifetime, and my doctors all hate it, but they have to prescribe what's available and what my insurance will pay for.

 

http://insulinnation.com/treatment/sanofi-moves-to-block-a-generic-lantus-again/

 

They say the first step to getting yourself out of a hole is to stop digging. At Sanofi, company officials may believe the first step is to fortify and refortify the hole.

 

This month, Sanofi filed a patent lawsuit against fellow drugmaker Merck & Co. to block the latter company from releasing a biosimilar insulin that is supposed to copycat Lantus, according to a FiercePharma report. If this sounds familiar to you, it’s because Sanofi filed a similar lawsuit against Lilly in 2014; that suit was eventually settled in 2015.

 

Lantus is Sanofi’s cornerstone product, a popular long-acting insulin that has been steadily losing marketshare in the face of increased basal insulin competition. For a period of time, Sanofi was able to raise the price of Lantus at will and see their profits rise, but that party began to end in 2015 as insurance payors pushed back against price hikes and Lantus’ marketshare was under siege from increased basal insulin competition.

Sanofi first tried defending its position by suing Lilly to block release of a biosimilar. This had the effect of freezing the release of Lilly’s insulin in the U.S. Sanofi lawyers were eventually able to wring concessions from Lilly, including future royalties and the promise not to sell the biosimilar until the end of 2016.

 

Such a move, while it did little to help Sanofi’s public standing, made sense to buy time for Sanofi to establish its new basal insulin formula, Toujeo, which was released in April 2015. However, Toujeo sales have failed to take off, especially as Sanofi has stubbornly refused to discount the drug during its initial rollout. Meanwhile, payors are getting even more tired of Lantus prices; CVS Health announced in August it was dropping Lantus from its formulary, according to FiercePharma.

sponsor

If the Lilly lawsuit was a delaying tactic, the Merck lawsuit feels more like a shakedown. Sanofi officials can’t reasonably think that Toujeo sales will suddenly take off with a bit more time, and they haven’t made any rumblings about having a better insulin tucked away in their pipeline. This move might just be an effort to get Merck to agree to pay royalties like Lilly did.

 

That may be good for the bottom line, but this seems like the wrong time to pull a digging-in-your-heels move like this. As evidenced by the Mylan EpiPen hearings, politicians right now are out for the blood of pharma execs who may be price gouging to keep up stock shares. The mainstream press is already casting around for a new drug company villain, and several reporters have begun analyzing inexplicable insulin price increases to see if the insulin industry is behaving like Mylan.

(Btw, reporters, welcome to the party.)

 

As usual, however, the real loser, at least in the short term, is the insulin user. By filing the lawsuit, Sanofi slows, if not blocks, the sale of a generic basal insulin that would have helped lower out-of-control prices. Let’s hope in the long run, insulin company execs get the message that this kind of move will no longer fly.

 

[giraldi02 470]

Interesting that the article says Toujeo is failing to take off. My wife's doctor has her on that. The insurance (Blue Cross) covers pretty much everything. Hardly any cost whatsoever for her basal insulin.

 

Makes you wonder too whether some doctors are hooked in deep with the insurance companies and big pharma too

[IGotWorms 3,357]

 

Bingo....Quick story....

 

I am diabetic as a result of my other issues, but I had it super under control. 1 shot of Lantus per day, with zero adjustments to the dose or issues for more than a decade. In short, it has been a non issue in my life.....Then just over a year ago my insurance company stops covering Lantus. They switch me to a new drug and I go through 6 months of issues, losing feeling in hands and feet, developed a bunion, energy fell through the floor, lost weight. I don't feel as good as I felt on Lantus, but I at least eventually got it mostly under control. But....

 

According to my doc.......the patent on Lantus is expiring and a generic version is close to hitting the market, hence lower prices for me....So guess what happens? The pharmaceutical company (Sanofi) that owns Lantus pressures the insurance companies to stop covering Lantus in hopes of those patients being moved to a new drug that is under patent still, thus way more expensive. And I guess the pharmaceutical companies swing a big enough stick to pressure the insurance companies, meanwhile the super hot pharmaceutical sales girls work the doctors to get their new drug prescribed, and we the patients get bent over.

 

Here is a short opinion article about Lantus and lawsuits trying to block the generic, that I just found. It's not so much the specifics, as much as it's just that this is the way the medical industry works. I've dealt with a few versions of this story in my lifetime, and my doctors all hate it, but they have to prescribe what's available and what my insurance will pay for.

 

http://insulinnation.com/treatment/sanofi-moves-to-block-a-generic-lantus-again/

 

Interesting story. Thanks for bringing the human angle to this discussion

[penultimatestraw 473]

Interesting that the article says Toujeo is failing to take off. My wife's doctor has her on that. The insurance (Blue Cross) covers pretty much everything. Hardly any cost whatsoever for her basal insulin.

Makes you wonder too whether some doctors are hooked in deep with the insurance companies and big pharma too

Doctors are influenced by pharmaceutical companies, usually as a result of attractive pharm reps prostituting the drug du jour, with "free" samples to give to their patients. There are regulations about accepting gifts/compensation for prescribing practices, though it is still pretty easy to get paid to give "drug talks" promoting a particular medicine. The lectures are canned talks prepared by the pharma companies, usually associated with dinner at a nice restaurant. The shill physicians make the biased pharmaceutical data sound more legitimate, and attendees get a free meal. Although many physicians think these reps and dinners don't influence prescribing practices, it's clearly been shown that they do. Thankfully, my office forbids drug reps from coming in our office, and I don't attend drug rep dinners or give their lectures.

 

While many doctors are complicit by their actions, I think the pharmaceutical companies are far more to blame. Between creating drug shortages, developing "me too" drugs to effectively extend patents, enticing prescribers and patients with marketing/advertising and lobbying insurers to favor their products, there are few more corrupt industries. But this is the result of poorly regulated free market tactics, which would be applauded in other businesses.

[giraldi02 470]

Doctors are influenced by pharmaceutical companies, usually as a result of attractive pharm reps prostituting the drug du jour, with "free" samples to give to their patients. There are regulations about accepting gifts/compensation for prescribing practices, though it is still pretty easy to get paid to give "drug talks" promoting a particular medicine. The lectures are canned talks prepared by the pharma companies, usually associated with dinner at a nice restaurant. The shill physicians make the biased pharmaceutical data sound more legitimate, and attendees get a free meal. Although many physicians think these reps and dinners don't influence prescribing practices, it's clearly been shown that they do. Thankfully, my office forbids drug reps from coming in our office, and I don't attend drug rep dinners or give their lectures.

 

While many doctors are complicit by their actions, I think the pharmaceutical companies are far more to blame. Between creating drug shortages, developing "me too" drugs to effectively extend patents, enticing prescribers and patients with marketing/advertising and lobbying insurers to favor their products, there are few more corrupt industries. But this is the result of poorly regulated free market tactics, which would be applauded in other businesses.

 

Oh most definitely.

 

I've gone to every doctor's appointment with my wife since she's been diagnosed w/ type 1 diabetes.

 

Her diabetes doctor has been adamant about cost effectiveness, particularly when it comes to what insurance will cover and won't or what CVS will charge her for. I'm skeptical in general when it comes to these people. To hear a doctor lambasting the drug industry and how several companies like Sanofi try to control the market was a breath of fresh air.

 

Unfortunately my own primary care doctors seems bound by the almighty dollar. Hate those bunch of focktards

[Sho Nuff 720]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obamacare-repeal-and-delay-cbo_us_587e4389e4b0f63fcfa3211b?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

[drobeski 3,061]

Huffingtonpost

[Sho Nuff 720]

Huffingtonpost

CBO...how about addresswhat they say dumbass.

[Strike 4,022]

CBO...how about addresswhat they say dumbass.

 

CBO? How'd they do on their projections for Obummercare?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,783]

 

CBO? How'd they do on their projections for Obummercare?

Win

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

CBO? How'd they do on their projections for Obummercare?

So it's probably worse than this.

Great

[jerryskids 5,248]

 

Oh most definitely.

 

I've gone to every doctor's appointment with my wife since she's been diagnosed w/ type 1 diabetes.

 

Her diabetes doctor has been adamant about cost effectiveness, particularly when it comes to what insurance will cover and won't or what CVS will charge her for. I'm skeptical in general when it comes to these people. To hear a doctor lambasting the drug industry and how several companies like Sanofi try to control the market was a breath of fresh air.

 

Unfortunately my own primary care doctors seems bound by the almighty dollar. Hate those bunch of focktards

 

Sorry to hear about your wife. My daughter is 15 and has had T1 for 6 years. She took Lantus until she got her insulin pump, which uses short doses of Novolog (fast-acting insulin) in lieu of Lantus. Our endo is fantastic but he is retiring this year to go help people in South America or something.