College is for the rich

[Team Revell 0]

Things are certainly moving in that direction. They are working hard at pricing the poor out of the American Dream.

 

April 9 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. college freshmen are wealthier than at any point in the past 35 years, and the income gap is widening between their families and the rest of the nation, a study shows.

 

This academic year's entering class came from families with income 60 percent greater than the national median, as tuition increases shut out lower-income students, the Higher Education Research Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles, said in a report today. The gap was 46 percent in 1971, according to the study of more than 8 million students over 40 years.

 

The findings, based on the biggest and longest-running survey of college students, may buttress criticism from members of Congress over the increasing cost of a college education. Tuition and fees have risen 35 percent so far this decade at public four-year institutions and 11 percent at their private counterparts, the researchers said, citing College Board figures.

 

``Students from wealthier families can endure greater fluctuations in `sticker price' than poorer students,'' Jose Luis Santos, a UCLA professor and co-author of the report, said in a statement. ``As a result, more students entering college come from homes that are increasingly wealthier than the national median income.''

 

Federal, State Aid

 

While federal aid has helped broaden access to higher education since the 1970s, state cuts in appropriations for public universities and colleges have helped lead to tuition increases that affect lower-income students most, the researchers said.

 

The federal government also has turned more to loans in its offerings of assistance, according to the report, called ``American Freshmen: Forty-Year Trends 1966-2006.'' The study was conducted by the institute's Cooperative Institutional Research Program.

 

``The study highlights the growing divide in our society and strongly affirms the need for both the federal government and states to re-invigorate their investment in need-based student financial aid,'' Daniel J. Hurley, director of state relations and policy analysis for the Washington-based American Association of State Colleges and Universities, said in an e-mail.

 

The report also shows the need ``for states in particular to provide increased operating support to their higher education institutions in order to keep tuition costs down,'' Hurley said.

 

Assistance Proposals

 

U.S. President George W. Bush and members of Congress are proposing increases in grants and loan aid to students while calling on colleges and universities to keep down tuition increases.

 

A growing number of private colleges have raised their spending on financial aid. Elite universities including the Ivy League's Harvard University, Princeton University and the University of Pennsylvania have replaced student loans with grants in their aid packages for students from lower-income families.

 

Last month, Davidson College followed the Ivies' lead when it said it would become the first national liberal arts school to substitute grants or work-study placements for student loans in its financial-aid packages for students from families with lower incomes. The shift will cost the school, located near Charlotte, North Carolina, almost $2 million in the first year.

 

Universities now dedicate 68 percent of their own budgeted aid for need-based rather than merit-based aid, up from 60 percent in 2001, said Tony Pals of the Washington-based National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities.

 

Community Service

 

``Enhancing access for low-income students is a challenge that faces every one of America's 3,500 college president,'' Pals said by e-mail.

 

The report by the Higher Education Research Institute, part of UCLA's Graduate School of Education and Information Studies, also examined shifts in values, attitudes and behaviors among students over the years.

 

The importance of helping others has increased in value, and more freshmen planned to participate in community service, the study found.

 

Almost 67 percent of students listed helping others as a key belief, the highest rate in two decades. The percentage who said they would do community service rose to 27 percent in 2006 from 16.9 percent in 1990. Women were twice as likely as men to indicate an interest in community service.

 

The proportion of students who consider promoting racial understanding an essential or very important goal fell to 34 percent from a high of 46.2 percent in 1992, the year riots erupted in Los Angeles, killing 55 and injuring 2,300, after four Los Angeles police were acquitted of beating Rodney King.

[RLLD 3,539]

It's now an educational caste society, you really do not learn anything of consequence in college, yet you pay extravagant amounts in order to achieve access to those positions that will allow you to live comfortably.

 

pay the dough, get the paper.....

[Vikings4ever 496]

I'm all for increased aid in the form of student loans, but I do think that grants should come less from the government and more from private industries.

 

That way, tax dollars aren't wasted if someone goes to college and drops out, or doesn't become a productive member of society.

[SigEp316 0]

this surprises me....it's so easy for minorities and poor people to get scholarships. I guess they're to lazy to apply.

[itsbigmoni 1]

I agree with Ray. It seems like a lot of kids go to college just to get somethin done before they take over the family business. One of my good friends went to law school and all that and is now a lawyer. His plan is to work for a year, max two, then take over the farm his family runs. I mean he just took the bar and doesn't even know if he passed yet and he bought a sl500. A lot of people go to college for the show of it. Then they can refute the whole, you just took over daddy's business.

 

Its really prevalent in the indian community. I'd say about half of the girls go to college as somethin to do between high school and marriage. Sometimes they'll work for a few years so they can earn a lil extra cash and buy a house with their husband, but as soon as that first kid comes out, no more working.

[IndyTom 0]

What I struggle with the most of this article, is that they are not tackling the root cause. Instead of throwing money at the lower income families, why don't they throw money at the schools where lower income families send their kids and create an environment that changes the question from: "Are you going to college?" to "Which college do you plan to attend?"

[PackerAttacker 0]

I worked summers.

I paid for college.

I graduated.

I got a job.

I have no student loans.

I Didnt get a dime from my parents, loans, or scholarships.

 

Its affordable for people you want to put in an effort to succeed.

[lennie75 0]

It's now an educational caste society, you really do not learn anything of consequence in college, yet you pay extravagant amounts in order to achieve access to those positions that will allow you to live comfortably.

 

pay the dough, get the paper.....

I want to make sure that I understand you. I agree there is a problem w/ getting money for schooling.

 

But an educational caste society is not the problem...it is the inability for everyone to get in the caste that is the problem.

 

I see nothing wrong withpeople who have higher educations getting the better jobs...hopefully everyone has the same opportunity.

 

Taht being said...I was raised by a low income single mother and I went to college and graduated on my own. There are tons of grants, financial aid, loans and scholarships....you just have to be willing to work hard to get them and find them.

 

Not to mention that a lot of state schools are still pretty well priced. I can't speak for all states. But, in NC you can go to a state school for 4 years and not be out all that much

[Snoopy1 0]

Screw the rising cost of college, I want something done about the skyrocketing costs of cabletv...nearly 200% in the last 5 years!

[fricker66 91]

I came from a middle-class white family, so it is tough for me to pass judgment as I don't know some of the disadvantages associated with being a minority or poor, but I had to borrow a lot to go to college (I paid 50%) and law school (I paid 100%), and it sure seemed like there was always money available for borrowing. It seems more like a matter of will and/or sociological pressure against college more than anything else.

[Cdub100 3,451]

I worked summers.

I paid for college.

I graduated.

I got a job.

I have no student loans.

I Didnt get a dime from my parents, loans, or scholarships.

 

Its affordable for people you want to put in an effort to succeed.

 

I did get a crap load of loans.

 

If you want to go to college you can. Also many 4 year colleges will transfer half of your credits from local community colleges, which cuts cost way down.

[RLLD 3,539]

I want to make sure that I understand you. I agree there is a problem w/ getting money for schooling.

 

But an educational caste society is not the problem...it is the inability for everyone to get in the caste that is the problem.

 

I see nothing wrong withpeople who have higher educations getting the better jobs...hopefully everyone has the same opportunity.

 

Taht being said...I was raised by a low income single mother and I went to college and graduated on my own. There are tons of grants, financial aid, loans and scholarships....you just have to be willing to work hard to get them and find them.

 

Not to mention that a lot of state schools are still pretty well priced. I can't speak for all states. But, in NC you can go to a state school for 4 years and not be out all that much

 

If I am right, and an educational "caste" does exist, then that is the problem....IMHO....

[D_House 0]

i've had 10 years of post-secondary education, and i haven't paid a cent for it.

[edjr 5,717]

I didn't go to college and I make more than all but one of my friends that have degrees.

 

I still wish I had gone to college. Still might someday.

 

lazy fock

[redtodd 7]

I grew up white and poor. I found a way to get through school.

 

1) Go to a state school.

2) Work during school.

3) Get loans.

 

If you put in the effort, ANYONE do it. Instead, we drill into poor people and minorities that only the rich can go to college (which is not true).

[brinett9 0]

I still wish I had gone to college. Still might someday.

 

There are two great things about college:

 

1. A degree.

 

2. Two chicks at the same time.

 

So you've already cashed in on half the goodness anyways.

[edjr 5,717]

I grew up white and poor. I found a way to get through school.

 

1) Go to a state school.

2) Work during school.

3) Get loans.

 

If you put in the effort, you ANYONE do it.

 

 

you showing off your not shore college experience?

[redtodd 7]

you showing off your not shore college experience?

 

That is what Lowell gives you.

[swirvenirvin 25]

It's now an educational caste society, you really do not learn anything of consequence in college, yet you pay extravagant amounts in order to achieve access to those positions that will allow you to live comfortably.

 

pay the dough, get the paper.....

 

 

pretty much right on

[rallo 132]

It is expensive on so many levels... i mean there is tuition itself...

 

then there is the craziness of paying like 150 bucks a book at the bookstore (either univeristy owned or not)

 

living expenses (all the apartment complexes jack up the price)

 

all of this is superinflated compared to the rest of the surrounding area...

 

it's just such a good opportunity to make money... i mean you almost have to go to college to get a decent job.

 

there are ways around it though... i have about three different scholarships that total about 1,500 per semester which helps out a lot. I buy my books online when i'm able to which cuts the cost in half. The apartment issue is really the only thing you can't get around. For instance i live in a 2 bd rm apartment where rent is 450 a month per person (i know a bunch of you east and west coast geeks don't think that's a lot) but for a small sh1tty apartment in iowa it is more double what you'd pay anywhere else. There are "nice" apartments out there close to campus where they charge like 800-900 per person a month..

 

hopefully in future years internet degrees can balance out the costs of college... but until then college students and their parents will get raped every year

[donhaas 18]

I worked summers.

I paid for college.

I graduated.

I got a job.

I have no student loans.

I Didnt get a dime from my parents, loans, or scholarships.

 

Its affordable for people you want to put in an effort to succeed.

 

Believe it or not, some people aspire higher than UW-Kaukauna Community College

[IGotWorms 3,430]

Its ridiculous. I graduated from a huge state school with a B.A. a couple years ago. While I was in school (five years, I'm a bit of a slacker) tuition rose about 12-15 percent every freaking year! And that didn't even include some hidden cost increases (they charge a "fee" for pretty much everything now). State legislatures are cutting funding so now public schools are becoming more like private schools in order to get by. The problem is that people of limited means get screwed, as always.

 

i've had 10 years of post-secondary education, and i haven't paid a cent for it.

 

F*ck off!

[jerryskids 5,402]

Tuition and fees have risen 35 percent so far this decade at public four-year institutions and 11 percent at their private counterparts, the researchers said, citing College Board figures.

Yet another example of why private enterprises are more efficient than government subisized ones.

[IGotWorms 3,430]

Yet another example of why private enterprises are more efficient than government subisized ones.

 

Quite wrong. Tuition has risen so much because state legislatures have been slashing budgets for state-run schools, because tools like yourself vote Republican and demand less taxes (except when it comes to paying for wars and such, of course). Private institutions are not nearly as subject to the political climate and thus have more stable costs. Nothing to do with efficiency.

[jerryskids 5,402]

Quite wrong. Tuition has risen so much because state legislatures have been slashing budgets for state-run schools, because tools like yourself vote Republican and demand less taxes (except when it comes to paying for wars and such, of course). Private institutions are not nearly as subject to the political climate and thus have more stable costs. Nothing to do with efficiency.

Presuming this is true... why should I subsidize your education, you lazy ass?

[Strike 4,092]

Presuming this is true... why should I subsidize your education, you lazy ass?

 

I have no problem with the gov't subsidizing education. Ultimately, an educated society is more beneficial than an uneducated one. I find it humorous how people complain about how everything the gov't is screwing us left and right, and they are. And these same people say illegal immigrants are good for our country when they are a lot of the reason we can't afford to build/maintain new highways, are shutting down national parks or charging fees when they used to be free, the cost of healthcare is rising, and the cost of college is going up rapidly. Many states now give in state tuition to illegal immigrants!! So, if people want reasonable college tuition, as a start maybe people should support a harsher stance on illegal immigration.

[CantTouchThis 23]

Tell me about it. Going to college in the fall, it will cost a pretty penny, somewhere around, oh, 18 grand a year. Luckily i got in the mid 20 thousands in scholorships. My parents are no where near upper class, they say they might be able to give me a couple grand a semester if they continue doing ok. Past that, that is around 8,000 i have to come up with in my income and student loans next year minimum. I will be working, but, probably won't even make 8,000 altogether, probably about half, plus i'll have bills and junk to pay for. Hopefully i can get enough saved up this summer, and work a little more next year that i won't owe too much, but, still sucks. I hate rich spoiled kids more than anything. Their parents pay for their college, buy them a nice car to get to and fro college, and pay there bills for them, probably gives them money to spend at college. Seriously, what are these parents thinking????

[itsbigmoni 1]

Tell me about it. Going to college in the fall, it will cost a pretty penny, somewhere around, oh, 18 grand a year. Luckily i got in the mid 20 thousands in scholorships. My parents are no where near upper class, they say they might be able to give me a couple grand a semester if they continue doing ok. Past that, that is around 8,000 i have to come up with in my income and student loans next year minimum. I will be working, but, probably won't even make 8,000 altogether, probably about half, plus i'll have bills and junk to pay for. Hopefully i can get enough saved up this summer, and work a little more next year that i won't owe too much, but, still sucks. I hate rich spoiled kids more than anything. Their parents pay for their college, buy them a nice car to get to and fro college, and pay there bills for them, probably gives them money to spend at college. Seriously, what are these parents thinking????

 

How is that their fault? And wouldn't you want to be able to assist your kids in their ongoing education? I mean if you're making 6 figures, is it so much to ask to help out your own kid? And each family is different. My parents paid for my brothers education, they're paying for mine, and will pay for my lil brothers. I was provided with a car too. But then i've worked for them all my life for free. I grew up on a farm and worked every summer in the grapes since 5th grade. Then my dad opened a truck repair shop and i worked there. Now we have this other store and i work there for free. Plus, when they get old, its gonna be up to my brothers and me to take care of them. Thats just how it goes. There was about a year time period where i worked a random job and usually i'd just give my paycheck to my mom.

 

One of the first thigns i'm gonna do when i find out theres a baby on the way is open up a college fund for them.

 

Focking parents caring about their kids future.

 

I would love to have a business or 5 by the time my kid finishes college. Pretty much everyone in my extended family is self-employed and i'd want it to stay that way.

[IGotWorms 3,430]

Presuming this is true... why should I subsidize your education, you lazy ass?

 

First of all, it is true. Did you bother to read the article that spawned this thread? I'm guessing not. Instead, you came in to the thread, noticed it was about college education, and decided this was a good place to throw our your preconceived notion that public institutions are bad because they are "less efficient." So you skimmed the article for a little snippet, and then took that widly out of context and twisted it to fit your narrow world view.

 

Aren't you supposed to have a pretty good job? Its sad that people can get ahead in this society while apparently lacking critical thinking skills and foresight.

 

Anyway, why should you support "lazy people" by subsidizing their education? There are a multitude of reasons why education leads to a better society (a society in which you have to live, I might add), but I can tell you are the type to only focus on immediate self interest, so I won't waste my time explaining most of the reasons. So for you, I would say that the best reason you have for supporting public education is that it gives you an educated working class from which to hire your employees. Good enough?

[jerryskids 5,402]

First of all, it is true. Did you bother to read the article that spawned this thread? I'm guessing not. Instead, you came in to the thread, noticed it was about college education, and decided this was a good place to throw our your preconceived notion that public institutions are bad because they are "less efficient." So you skimmed the article for a little snippet, and then took that widly out of context and twisted it to fit your narrow world view.

 

Aren't you supposed to have a pretty good job? Its sad that people can get ahead in this society while apparently lacking critical thinking skills and foresight.

 

Anyway, why should you support "lazy people" by subsidizing their education? There are a multitude of reasons why education leads to a better society (a society in which you have to live, I might add), but I can tell you are the type to only focus on immediate self interest, so I won't waste my time explaining most of the reasons. So for you, I would say that the best reason you have for supporting public education is that it gives you an educated working class from which to hire your employees. Good enough?

You are right, mea culpa, I only scanned the article upon my first response. I just read it in more detail, let's see what it says:

 

While federal aid has helped broaden access to higher education since the 1970s, state cuts in appropriations for public universities and colleges have helped lead to tuition increases that affect lower-income students most, the researchers said.

 

Hmm, seems it isn't Dubya. The states are the ones cutting funding. Perhaps you should talk to your state representatives?

 

The federal government also has turned more to loans in its offerings of assistance, according to the report, called ``American Freshmen: Forty-Year Trends 1966-2006.'' The study was conducted by the institute's Cooperative Institutional Research Program.

 

I don't have a problem with this. If, and I agree, an educated society is more productive, than the people getting that education should be able to pay back the loans.

 

The report also shows the need ``for states in particular to provide increased operating support to their higher education institutions in order to keep tuition costs down,'' Hurley said.

 

Again, the states, not the feds.

 

U.S. President George W. Bush and members of Congress are proposing increases in grants and loan aid to students while calling on colleges and universities to keep down tuition increases.

 

This is a good thing, right?

 

A growing number of private colleges have raised their spending on financial aid. Elite universities including the Ivy League's Harvard University, Princeton University and the University of Pennsylvania have replaced student loans with grants in their aid packages for students from lower-income families.

 

Last month, Davidson College followed the Ivies' lead when it said it would become the first national liberal arts school to substitute grants or work-study placements for student loans in its financial-aid packages for students from families with lower incomes. The shift will cost the school, located near Charlotte, North Carolina, almost $2 million in the first year.

 

Seems the private colleges are doing their part?

 

Universities now dedicate 68 percent of their own budgeted aid for need-based rather than merit-based aid, up from 60 percent in 2001, said Tony Pals of the Washington-based National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities.

 

So... more aid is going to the needy.

 

Well, there is my attempt at more "critical thinking skills and foresight."

[nobody 2,102]

Tell me about it. Going to college in the fall, it will cost a pretty penny, somewhere around, oh, 18 grand a year. Luckily i got in the mid 20 thousands in scholorships. My parents are no where near upper class, they say they might be able to give me a couple grand a semester if they continue doing ok. Past that, that is around 8,000 i have to come up with in my income and student loans next year minimum. I will be working, but, probably won't even make 8,000 altogether, probably about half, plus i'll have bills and junk to pay for. Hopefully i can get enough saved up this summer, and work a little more next year that i won't owe too much, but, still sucks. I hate rich spoiled kids more than anything. Their parents pay for their college, buy them a nice car to get to and fro college, and pay there bills for them, probably gives them money to spend at college. Seriously, what are these parents thinking????

 

I'm no math major but isn't mid 20s > 18?

[IGotWorms 3,430]

You are right, mea culpa, I only scanned the article upon my first response. I just read it in more detail, let's see what it says:

Hmm, seems it isn't Dubya. The states are the ones cutting funding. Perhaps you should talk to your state representatives?

I don't have a problem with this. If, and I agree, an educated society is more productive, than the people getting that education should be able to pay back the loans.

Again, the states, not the feds.

This is a good thing, right?

Seems the private colleges are doing their part?

So... more aid is going to the needy.

 

Well, there is my attempt at more "critical thinking skills and foresight."

 

I didn't say it was W and the feds that are cutting education funding. We can agree that it is the states who are cutting the funding, and they thus bare the primary responsibility for the fact that it is getting tougher and tougher every year for people from economically disadvantaged backgrounds to get a college education. Even middle class families are finding it difficult to come up with the money for higher education now. Basically, if you can't afford a private school, you're screwed.

 

This cut in funding is due to a variety of reasons, but most all of them come back to the (largely conservative) idea that education ought to be a free market commodity. The idea is that the individual student should have to take out more loans to pay for their school, rather than the state picking up part of the tab for their education. The problem is that education is a societal investment, much more than it is an individual one.

 

It might not make financial sense for a student to finance a college education entirely from loans, when you consider that they might not make enough of an additional income to justify the costs of high loans. However, it is good for society to have a large college-educated class, so thus it does make sense for society as a whole to bear some of the brunt of funding for higher education through state taxes.

 

It is when you look at public funding for higher education as an investment in the people that it makes sense to fund it. You aren't paying for some lazy ass to go to college, you are sharing society's investment in an educated working class. Failing to do so might save you some tax money in the near term, but the societal and economic consequences of failing to fund education will dwarf those gains in the long run.

 

I'm no math major but isn't mid 20s > 18?

 

I'm guessing he meant mid-20s in scholarships overall.

[joeshushu 51]

I grew up white and poor. I found a way to get through school.

 

1) Go to a state school.

2) Work during school.

3) Get loans.

 

If you put in the effort, ANYONE do it. Instead, we drill into poor people and minorities that only the rich can go to college (which is not true).

 

 

Me Too, although I did go to a private Jesuit school.

[pimptastic69 0]

I didn't say it was W and the feds that are cutting education funding. We can agree that it is the states who are cutting the funding, and they thus bare the primary responsibility for the fact that it is getting tougher and tougher every year for people from economically disadvantaged backgrounds to get a college education. Even middle class families are finding it difficult to come up with the money for higher education now. Basically, if you can't afford a private school, you're screwed.

 

This cut in funding is due to a variety of reasons, but most all of them come back to the (largely conservative) idea that education ought to be a free market commodity. The idea is that the individual student should have to take out more loans to pay for their school, rather than the state picking up part of the tab for their education. The problem is that education is a societal investment, much more than it is an individual one.

 

It might not make financial sense for a student to finance a college education entirely from loans, when you consider that they might not make enough of an additional income to justify the costs of high loans. However, it is good for society to have a large college-educated class, so thus it does make sense for society as a whole to bear some of the brunt of funding for higher education through state taxes.

 

It is when you look at public funding for higher education as an investment in the people that it makes sense to fund it. You aren't paying for some lazy ass to go to college, you are sharing society's investment in an educated working class. Failing to do so might save you some tax money in the near term, but the societal and economic consequences of failing to fund education will dwarf those gains in the long run.

I'm guessing he meant mid-20s in scholarships overall.

 

 

I wonder how far avererage tuitions would drop if the Gubment would quit guaranteeing loans.

 

Maybe we should go back to the good old days when you had to be smart to get into college, not just disadvantaged.

[D_House 0]

I wonder how far avererage tuitions would drop if the Gubment would quit guaranteeing loans.

 

Maybe we should go back to the good old days when you had to be smart to get into college, not just disadvantaged.

those good old days never existed.

[Franknbeans 46]

I have a solution to all of this, instead of paying taxes and have fat cat legislators decide where the money goes, I say we choose where our individual tax dollars go.

[Fun Bags 0]

It's now an educational caste society, you really do not learn anything of consequence in college, yet you pay extravagant amounts in order to achieve access to those positions that will allow you to live comfortably.

 

pay the dough, get the paper.....

 

Financial discussion aside for a moment, that is really a crock of shiot. You get out of education what you are willing to put into it. Some people may choose not to apply themselves, or may choose BS fields of study and thus do not learn anything of consequence. Those that want to learn can and do. My college experiences were invaluable. I have a degree in Physics and Astronomy. I wasn't going to pick up that knowledge/skill set on the street.

[Toro 1]

Financial discussion aside for a moment, that is really a crock of shiot. You get out of education what you are willing to put into it. Some people may choose not to apply themselves, or may choose BS fields of study and thus do not learn anything of consequence. Those that want to learn can and do. My college experiences were invaluable. I have a degree in Physics and Astronomy. I wasn't going to pick up that knowledge/skill set on the street.

 

I completely agree. Getting an education from a 4 year university or college is not the equivalent of going to a technical school or trade school. The college degree tells two things to potential employers that those without a degree do not have.

 

1) They have a well-rounded education with skills in not only their major, but a variety or other skills that will be useful in the workplace. I am a software developer and I have met MANY a colleague who chose to forgo college and just learn "how to program because that's what really counts". And that's great if all you ever want to be is a programmer. There has been time after time where I have gotten assigned to projects and then all of the sudden, I realize that part of the project interface is coming from the accounting systems. My business degree required me to take 3 accounting classes and the whole time I was sitting in them, I would say "Man, this is stupid. I don't want to be an accountant, why the hell are they making me take these classes?" Now, when the other guy who just wanted to learn how to program was completely lost in the differences between debits and credits, I was able to hit the floor running.

 

2) It shows committment to a long-term goal. Anyone can take classes for six-months. The college degree tells the employer that this person worked (some harder than others) for at least 4 years to achieve a goal. Opinions may vary, but this is a huge asset in the job market, even if it is in 20th century philosophy.

[RLLD 3,539]

Financial discussion aside for a moment, that is really a crock of shiot. You get out of education what you are willing to put into it. Some people may choose not to apply themselves, or may choose BS fields of study and thus do not learn anything of consequence. Those that want to learn can and do. My college experiences were invaluable. I have a degree in Physics and Astronomy. I wasn't going to pick up that knowledge/skill set on the street.

 

Agree to disagree then. The topics I covered in my MBA are already antiquated, the knowledge is no longer of use in the corporate processes of today. The knowledge being dispensed is the crock of sh!t.

[edjr 5,717]

That is what Lowell gives you.

 

 

You go there for Engineering? My buddy went there in 91 and flunked out. I spent weeks at a time sleeping and partying up there.