Self Defense Killing in Florida...Geeks got an opinion?

[tikigods 76]

President Barack Obama made a searingly personal plea on Friday for Americans to come together and do some "soul searching" after the shooting death of African-American Florida teenager Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watchman, noting: "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon."

 

"My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And you know, I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we're get to the bottom of exactly what happened," Obama said in response to a shouted question in the White House Rose Garden.

 

What is that supposed to mean? He'd be black?

[Eagles Green 34]

instead of reading why aren't you LISTENING!

also, the KID was unarmed!

i don't understand your logic AT ALL.

 

this is really helping me understand the oj case.

i swear i would talk until i was blue in the face to some of my black friends and they just would not listen to facts or common sense.

it didn't matter what i said, they were convinced oj was innocent.

i think many white people are going to bear down and dig their heels in the sand and ignore the facts because they have a set belief in their minds and nothing, not even a video (i.e. rodney king) would convince them otherwise.

 

not arguing about this anymore. you are wasting my time and energy.

Were you there? No.

You don't know what happened, you have an opinion. Just like other people here have their opinions. Why, if it's so cut and dry, didn't they arrest him? Because the kid was black? You don't believe that do you? Maybe you should wait for all of the facts to surface.

 

I wonder what you thought about Tawanna Brawley before the truth came out.

[peenie 1,690]

i've decided not only to not argue about this situation here, but i'm not going to follow it online either. this is my uncle's take on the matter and i agree with him.

 

Excellent discussion on both parts. My issue, since all of the facts we discuss are gleaned from indirect and imperfect sources is not the incident itself. I am willing to let the investigation lead where it may by whomever. My issue is that we are being manipulated. I hate being driven like cattle. I hate being manipulated. I reserve judgement on the incident and the investigation, but as I look at my wall (tv?) I see the deceased elevated to martyred sainthood and a mob screaming for Zimmerman's blood. This is no way to seek the truth. And both of you, Jeffrey and Art have enough experience and knowledge to have been privy to many times when the immediate portrayal of events in the media are inaccurate and misleading. ALSO, as the blood of young black men fills the gutters of every major city and many minor ones, I understand seeking justice, but as I said, I see our emotions being manipulated for political gain and other agendas. I was speaking with my brother, A Deputy DA who tries gang, drug and death penalty cases in COMPTON. His words: "I understand the frustration over the Martin shooting, but I wish everyone got as worked up over every Hoover (hoover is a gang) shooting a Crip. They need to come see me, they want to hear about good innocent young people getting murdered by creeps... babies to adults... where is the outrage..." This is my point. What happened to Martin is happening all over the country every day and not a peep. YOu want to get pissed at someone, get pissed that THOSE crimes are getting no push. Do none of them look like the president's son?

 

my uncle is a former los angeles police officer.

[tikigods 76]

Were you there? No.

You don't know what happened, you have an opinion. Just like other people here have their opinions. Why, if it's so cut and dry, didn't they arrest him? Because the kid was black? You don't believe that do you? Maybe you should wait for all of the facts to surface.

 

I wonder what you thought about Tawanna Brawley before the truth came out.

 

To be fair, the Charles Stuart case in Boston was the bookend to Tawanna Brawley.

[kutulu 1,551]

About time I delete this thread

[rallo 132]

What is that supposed to mean? He'd be black?

 

maybe trayvon had huge ears that receive direct TV signals also

[tikigods 76]

maybe trayvon had huge ears that receive direct TV signals also

 

or had a teleprompter with him so he knew exactly when to yell "Help" during the 911 call?

[Little Rusty 17]

Were you there? No.

You don't know what happened, you have an opinion. Just like other people here have their opinions. Why, if it's so cut and dry, didn't they arrest him? Because the kid was black? You don't believe that do you? Maybe you should wait for all of the facts to surface.

 

I wonder what you thought about Tawanna Brawley before the truth came out.

highly reasonable points

[phillybear 364]

My god what a mess. And this all could have been avoided if the police just brought him in and charged him and went through the legal system the way it is supposed to happen.

 

That's not even close to being legal. You have to charge that person with a crime. With what evidence? No prosecutor with a brain in their head would bring up charges. Unlike that moron that took the Duke kids all the way, then lost his job. So, within 24 hours, the guy walks. In fact, all concrete evidence at this point shows that Trafaggut was in the act of committing several crimes. Fock that dead kid, fock him in the ass.

 

Then again, Obama can call the hero with a gun a terrorist, and thrown him in jail for the rest of his life, without a trial. It's awesome how the assh0les in charge don't have to give a sh!t about the Constitution anymore.

[kutulu 1,551]

Police in Sanford, Fla., have become the target of anger and protest around the country for failing to arrest George Zimmerman after he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

 

But Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law may have given them little choice.

 

That law grants immunity to anyone who uses deadly force, inside or outside his home, if he can reasonably claim he was defending himself.

 

When police arrived at the scene, Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, had grass stains on his back and an injury to his head. He said he'd gotten them fighting Martin off. Recordings of 911calls would later raise questions about his claim of self-defense, but with only one survivor from that deadly encounter, police at the time had only Zimmerman's story to go by.

 

Stand Your Ground "really ties law enforcement's hands," says Florida law professor Elizabeth Megale, "because immunity is defined so broadly." Immunity, she says, does not just mean you can't be prosecuted. It means you can't be detained.

 

For defense attorneys, Megale says, Stand Your Ground "is a dream."

 

Not surprisingly, Florida State Attorney William Meggs sees it differently. "It is a dream alright, a bad one. It's a nightmare," he says.

 

Florida in 2005 became the first state to pass a Stand Your Ground law. It was backed by the National Rifle Association, supported by legislators from both parties and signed by Gov. Jeb Bush. Twenty other states have followed with similar laws of their own.

 

The laws expand on the so-called Castle Doctrine, which allow a person to defend himself with deadly force inside his own home (or castle) without first having to retreat. Stand Your Ground eliminates the need to retreat, even outside your own home, so long as you reasonably believe you are in danger.

 

A subtle change, but a significant one. Combing press reports and state records, The Tampa Bay Times found 130 cases in Florida in which Stand Your Ground was invoked. In more than 70 percent of the cases, someone was killed. But only 28 of the cases went to trial, and only 19 resulted in a guilty verdict.

 

State Attorney Meggs says because of Stand Your Ground he just lost a case in which a young man was shot to death and the killer went free. "This was a totally unnecessary shooting," he says. It began with a drunken argument in a bar which was resumed later that night on the side of the road. One man was walking, the other was a passenger in a car. The car stopped, the argument began again, the man on the side of the road leaned into the car window, and was shot to death. The Florida Supreme Court ruled the shooter was "standing his ground."

 

"We have solved a problem with the Stand Your Ground Law that didn't exist," says Meggs. "The people who are using this law are not law abiding citizens. The people who are using this law are thugs and gangs and drug dealers."

 

At least one Florida legislator has called for a reexamination of Stand Your Ground. But the law's author, State Rep. Dennis Baxley, says the problem is not with the law, but with how it's being applied.

 

Baxley says George Zimmerman "is on very thin ice" using Stand Your Ground as a defense in the shooting of Trayvon Martin. "There was nothing in this statute ever intended to protect somebody who was pursuing or confronting other people."

 

~abcnews.com

[kutulu 1,551]

President Obama is going to use this as an excuse to take even more of our personal liberties away.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Stand Your Ground Law or not, if I was a cop at the scene, Zimmerman gets arrested. And if I was the DA overseeing the case, Zimmerman goes to trial unless he convinces me there's no way I can build a case against him.

[kutulu 1,551]

Stand Your Ground Law or not, if I was a cop at the scene, Zimmerman gets arrested. And if I was the DA overseeing the case, Zimmerman goes to trial unless he convinces me there's no way I can build a case against him.

Total cover up by the pigs...another feather in the president's cap.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Total cover up by the pigs...another feather in the president's cap.

 

Get it straight--it's the conservitards doing the cover-up on this one.

[kutulu 1,551]

Get it straight--it's the conservitards doing the cover-up on this one.

exactly what I was focking saying, bro

[IGotWorms 3,315]

exactly what I was focking saying, bro

 

 

I don't like Political Kutulu

[kutulu 1,551]

 

I don't like Political Kutulu

Get Obama's nuts out of your mouth for a minute and think for yourself, fascist

[phillybear 364]

And if I was the DA overseeing the case, Zimmerman goes to trial unless he convinces me there's no way I can build a case against him.

 

Guilty until proven innocent. Awesome.

[MDC 5,893]

Guilty until proven innocent. Awesome.

 

Being arrested doesn't mean you're guilty.

[phillybear 364]

Being arrested doesn't mean you're guilty.

 

The choice of words goes to trial unless he convinces me there's no way I can build a case against him is clearly different than whatever you gleaned through your reading "comprehension". Persecuting somebody until you are given evidence that they are innocent is unacceptable.

[jerryskids 5,207]

If only we had a process where we collected together a group of unbiased people, had them listen to the evidence from both sides, and let them decide if he was guilty. If we did such a thing, I'd want the guilty decision to be unanimous, because that is a serious charge.

 

I think I'm onto something. Thoughts?

[kutulu 1,551]

The choice of words goes to trial unless he convinces me there's no way I can build a case against him is clearly different than whatever you gleaned through your reading "comprehension". Persecuting somebody until you are given evidence that they are innocent is unacceptable.

fock off you liberal piece of crap.

[kutulu 1,551]

If only we had a process where we collected together a group of unbiased people, had them listen to the evidence from both sides, and let them decide if he was guilty. If we did such a thing, I'd want the guilty decision to be unanimous, because that is a serious charge.

 

I think I'm onto something. Thoughts?

Thoughts? I think you should take your liberal agenda and move to cuba, dooshbag.

[MDC 5,893]

The choice of words goes to trial unless he convinces me there's no way I can build a case against him is clearly different than whatever you gleaned through your reading "comprehension". Persecuting somebody until you are given evidence that they are innocent is unacceptable.

 

The guy stalked and then shot an unarmed minor who was pleading for his life - of course there's enough evidence to go to trial. Then he's "innocent until proven guilty."

[kutulu 1,551]

The guy stalked and then shot an unarmed minor who was pleading for his life - of course there's enough evidence to go to trial. Then he's "innocent until proven guilty."

Yeah, you libturds aren't biased.

[gocolts 300]

instead of reading why aren't you LISTENING!

also, the KID was unarmed!

i don't understand your logic AT ALL.

 

this is really helping me understand the oj case.

i swear i would talk until i was blue in the face to some of my black friends and they just would not listen to facts or common sense.

it didn't matter what i said, they were convinced oj was innocent.

i think many white people are going to bear down and dig their heels in the sand and ignore the facts because they have a set belief in their minds and nothing, not even a video (i.e. rodney king) would convince them otherwise.

 

not arguing about this anymore. you are wasting my time and energy.

I am starting to get tired of your condescending attitude, you focking kunt.

 

Unlike YOU, I have not made up my mind on what happened.

 

Hilarious how you think I should start listing, when it is YOU who REFUSES to hear anything other than Trayvon was a focking angel and Zimmerman is the devil.

[gocolts 300]

Yeah but you are assuming the kid was wrong because Al Sharpton has taken his side. My point is, for all you know, maybe this kid thought Al Sharpton was a clown and wouldn't want him on his side. You can't hold Sharpton against the dead kid because the kid never chose to associate himself with Sharpton.

Dude, not hardly. You could be right, maybe Trayvon hated Al. My point was Al is ALWAYS on the wrong side of things. For some reason, I believed him this time. That's it. Nothing to do with Trayvon and everything to do with Al Sharpton's record on being right when it is all said and done.

 

I am not holding it against the kid. I was not there so I don't know what happened. I was simply commenting on me believing Al and it looks like that will burn me.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

The choice of words goes to trial unless he convinces me there's no way I can build a case against him is clearly different than whatever you gleaned through your reading "comprehension". Persecuting somebody until you are given evidence that they are innocent is unacceptable.

 

Wow, you have no idea how the system works, do you?

 

First of all, someone who is arrested for a crime is considered innocent at trial until proven guilty. But if they want to avoid a trial in the first place, they have to convince the prosecutor that there is a good reason to not bring charges. It's an informal process and in one sense, yes, you are proving your innocence or at least giving the prosecutor a good reason to believe that they can not or should not obtain a conviction against you.

 

Second of all, if you assert self-defense generally that is an affirmative defense and YOU have to prove it. The State doesn't have to disprove it--you have to affirmatively establish that you did act in self-defense. Now the law may actually be different in Florida because of that absurd Stand Your Ground Law. I don't really know. But even if it is, I would still charge him to highlight how absurd the law is. Some things are worth taking a stand on.

[gocolts 300]

i've decided not only to not argue about this situation here, but i'm not going to follow it online either.

Sounds like nothing new, since it is obvious you haven't followed the case at all since it first broke.

[kutulu 1,551]

I am starting to get tired of your condescending attitude, you focking kunt.

 

Unlike YOU, I have not made up my mind on what happened.

 

Hilarious how you think I should start listing, when it is YOU who REFUSES to hear anything other than Trayvon was a focking angel and Zimmerman is the devil.

 

This guy gets it. Perhaps if some of you liberal apologists would get down off your soap box and listen once in awhile instead of just trying to promote your agenda we could start to fix all the problems you created.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I am starting to get tired of your condescending attitude, you focking kunt.

 

Unlike YOU, I have not made up my mind on what happened.

 

Hilarious how you think I should start listing, when it is YOU who REFUSES to hear anything other than Trayvon was a focking angel and Zimmerman is the devil.

 

[gocolts 300]

The guy stalked and then shot an unarmed minor who was pleading for his life - of course there's enough evidence to go to trial. Then he's "innocent until proven guilty."

According to what is being reported now, this is NOT what happened.

[kutulu 1,551]

I believe everything the media tells me. I suggest you retards do the same. Focking liberals.

[rallo 132]

The guy stalked and then shot an unarmed minor who was pleading for his life - of course there's enough evidence to go to trial. Then he's "innocent until proven guilty."

 

i want to hear more from the witness who claimes it was zimmerman pleading for his life... who said zimmerman was on the ground getting beaten. Where was this clown at? That lady in the tape was too scared to go to the window... as she should have been with the gunshots...

 

either way i hope there is justice...

 

if zimmerman did it then he deserves to be convicted of murder...

 

if he REALLY did act in self-defense i hope he gets a fair trial and his name is cleared in the media...

 

neither will happen

[IGotWorms 3,315]

According to what is being reported now, this is NOT what happened.

 

That's according to the selective "facts" that you have chosen to believe.

[gocolts 300]

i want to hear more from the witness who claimes it was zimmerman pleading for his life... who said zimmerman was on the ground getting beaten. Where was this clown at? That lady in the tape was too scared to go to the window... as she should have been with the gunshots...

 

either way i hope there is justice...

 

if zimmerman did it then he deserves to be convicted of murder...

 

if he REALLY did act in self-defense i hope he gets a fair trial and his name is cleared in the media...

 

neither will happen

:thumbsup:

[gocolts 300]

That's according to the selective "facts" that you have chosen to believe.

DUDE, I do NOT know what to believe.

 

Do you understand the words I am typing.

 

Stop making it sound like I am on one side or another just because I am open to the possibility that Zimmerman did not hunt down this kid to murder him. Good grief.

[MDC 5,893]

According to what is being reported now, this is NOT what happened.

 

Yeah, it is. There is enough evidence to bring Zimmerman to trial, then he's innocent until proven guilty.

[drobeski 3,061]

I believe everything the media tells me. I suggest you retards do the same. Focking liberals.

It isn't fact until what al sharpton has to say has been translated.

[gocolts 300]

Yeah, it is. There is enough evidence to bring Zimmerman to trial, then he's innocent until proven guilty.

No, it isn't.