Mall Gunman Wanted to Kill Many: Police

[Strike 5,841]

I think you're right to a degree, but it's not just dealing with failure. It goes beyond that. I'm talking about when some guy feels disrespected at a bar so he pulls out a gun and starts shooting. Back in the day that would have been a fistfight at most. Now it's murder. Why? People can't seem to handle the concept of taking a well-deserved punch, shaking it off, and moving on.

 

That's not what happened here, and I don't think it's a very common occurrence. Can you post some links to support that it's more likely now than 30 years ago? Or that it even happens much at all? TIA.

 

[jerryskids 6,960]

I think you're right to a degree, but it's not just dealing with failure. It goes beyond that. I'm talking about when some guy feels disrespected at a bar so he pulls out a gun and starts shooting. Back in the day that would have been a fistfight at most. Now it's murder. Why? People can't seem to handle the concept of taking a well-deserved punch, shaking it off, and moving on.

There is a growing field in corporate learning and development around dealing with this generation; specifically, they don't understand the causal relationship between their actions and consequences. It is related to the participation trophy mentality, and BLS described examples in detail.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

There is a growing field in corporate learning and development around dealing with this generation; specifically, they don't understand the causal relationship between their actions and consequences. It is related to the participation trophy mentality, and BLS described examples in detail.

 

I don't know, I'm sort of suspicious that you're trying to fit all this into some preconceived reactionary worldview that you have.

 

Did the whole "self-esteem" movement go too far? Yes, I'm sure it did. But is there a link between that and the increase in these kinds if killings and the culture of violence generally? I'm not seeing it, at least not: immediately.

 

But clearly there is some cultural problem at work, so maybe you're right. I can't quite pinpoint what it is myself.

[TheBlade 3]

I don't know, I'm sort of suspicious that you're trying to fit all this into some preconceived reactionary worldview that you have.

 

Did the whole "self-esteem" movement go too far? Yes, I'm sure it did. But is there a link between that and the increase in these kinds if killings and the culture of violence generally? I'm not seeing it, at least not: immediately.

 

But clearly there is some cultural problem at work, so maybe you're right. I can't quite pinpoint what it is myself.

I don't think it's one specific point that's causing this. I think it's a huge conglomeration of issues that have come together in an increasingly deadly mix.

 

I think the trophy syndrome is a huge factor. Kids never learn, and learn to cope with, the fact that life doesn't recognize your struggle and effort, only your success.

 

The desensitization to violence by video games plays a huge part. Impressionable kids can't be continually exposed to that stuff without it warping their sense of courses of action and consequences.

 

I also think today's technology plays an immense role in the problem. Back in my days in school, bullying went on like it has for decades, but it ended at school. Now with things like MySpace and Facebook, kids are exposed to being bullied all of the time and to a much greater scale. Add into that all of the awareness of bullying at school, which I think is important but just like anything else it's created it's own set of problems, and you have more kids that are becoming too sensitive to bullying issues and therefore feeling slighted and ostracized.

 

I think it's just a huge mix of these issues. And I don't think fixing any one area will improve the problem. To fix this it's going to take addressing all areas together.

[Frank M 181]

There is some validity to this, but I think the larger issue is: we've created a generation of young people who don't know how to deal with stress/failure. Real life doesn't give everyone a participation trophy, and these kids don't know how to deal with it.

 

Or maybe this guy was nuts.

[jerryskids 6,960]

Or maybe this guy was nuts.

Obviously he was nuts. Is it your position that no cultural changes have impacted the increased frequency of these types of events?

[Frank M 181]

Obviously he was nuts. Is it your position that no cultural changes have impacted the increased frequency of these types of events?

 

No. I think that there has been a desensitizing of people through violence in media including video games and TV and movies. I also think easy access to guns and more guns is a part of the equation that gun advocates like to try to dismiss, but has an impact.

 

I don't agree with your contention that coddling kids is causing them to become rageful killing machines when they get older. First of all, the idea that "when we were kids, we didn't get trophies for participating" is utter BS. I'm 46 years old, and when I played little league baseball, we got rewarded for participation. Every kid got a snack or got taken out for ice cream after the game. And there were kids then whose parents hovered over them and demanded they pitch or hit cleanup, whatever, that gave them a sense of entitlement. Nothing different is going on nowadays except the parents are getting more out of hand.

 

It's quite a stretch to say that since little Jimmy got a small plastic trophy for playing baseball during the summer, he's going to expect the world to owe him and he's going to kill people when the world doesn't deliver.

[jerryskids 6,960]

No. I think that there has been a desensitizing of people through violence in media including video games and TV and movies. I also think easy access to guns and more guns is a part of the equation that gun advocates like to try to dismiss, but has an impact.

 

I don't agree with your contention that coddling kids is causing them to become rageful killing machines when they get older. First of all, the idea that "when we were kids, we didn't get trophies for participating" is utter BS. I'm 46 years old, and when I played little league baseball, we got rewarded for participation. Every kid got a snack or got taken out for ice cream after the game. And there were kids then whose parents hovered over them and demanded they pitch or hit cleanup, whatever, that gave them a sense of entitlement. Nothing different is going on nowadays except the parents are getting more out of hand.

 

It's quite a stretch to say that since little Jimmy got a small plastic trophy for playing baseball during the summer, he's going to expect the world to owe him and he's going to kill people when the world doesn't deliver.

You are taking the trophy metaphor too literally. Do you have kids? If so, I find it hard to believe that you think their sense of entitlement (and acceptance of personal responsibility) hasn't changed since our generation. And before anyone says it, that statement is a broad generalization and there are plenty of exceptions.

 

ETA: I actually blame our generation, not theirs, since we were the ones who raised them and basically punted our parental responsibilities.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,292]

Fact not opinion

Why havent you addressed the question about chicago?

 

"It is illegal to own a gun in Chicago and yet more than one person dies on average each day from gun violence."

 

Why is there so much violence in chicago if you are not supposed to own a gun in the first place?

[drobeski 3,061]

Always a funny argument.

 

Also, since we've outlawed rapes yet rape still happen, we shouldn't even bother trying to do what's right. After all, it may not be 100% effective.

Who defines what's right ?

Im pretty sure the constitution did.

[Frank M 181]

You are taking the trophy metaphor too literally. Do you have kids? If so, I find it hard to believe that you think their sense of entitlement (and acceptance of personal responsibility) hasn't changed since our generation. And before anyone says it, that statement is a broad generalization and there are plenty of exceptions.

 

ETA: I actually blame our generation, not theirs, since we were the ones who raised them and basically punted our parental responsibilities.

 

Yeah, I have kids. And my sister is a teacher and always has stories about Johnny's mom b1tching about the grade he got instead of actually making Johnny work for the grade. I also see kids who have every gadget and toy imaginable and expect to get the latest iPhone, etc, when they come out. Most of these kids get squashed when real life comes calling. I just don't think this is as much of a factor in shootings as is mental illness.

 

I agree that our generation has dropped the ball on raising our kids in many ways. My kids get straight As because they know a C is not acceptable and a B is barely acceptable. I remember looking at my kid's homework once, and the words he was writing were falling off the line on the paper. I made him do it over even though the answer was right, and he was furious. But he didn't have any problem doing it neatly after that.

 

I tend to think that more kids are being done a disservice by absent parents than by coddling parents. And if you want to argue that absent parents are a factor in violence in lower income, inner city environments, I'm completely on board with that. Those kids don't usually shoot up a mall, though, they just kill each other.

[tubby_mcgee 701]

. GUNS RULE!!

 

 

 

 

 

More guns, More guns!

 

 

I've got about 25 guns (depends on whether you count the pellet guns). I just walked over and checked on them. Not a one of them was out of place. In fact, I put a video camera in the room that has most of the guns. Not a one of them got up in the middle of the night and went out and shot someone because it was high on dope, angry, or played too many video games.

 

I've always wondered why there are so few shootings like this per capita in places like North Dakota, South Dakota, etc. I just can't figure it out. I wonder if the guns here behave themselves better? Makes me think that other areas of the country should start buying their guns from the same place we buy them from.

 

 

 

Why is there so much violence in chicago

 

 

Uhh...it's full of hoodlums.

 

Same with other places people choose to live on top of each other. Yay for highrises, ho-ho's, $5 crack hits, and 40 ounce bottles beer!

/

[TheBlade 3]

I've got about 25 guns (depends on whether you count the pellet guns). I just walked over and checked on them. Not a one of them was out of place. In fact, I put a video camera in the room that has most of the guns. Not a one of them got up in the middle of the night and went out and shot someone because it was high on dope, angry, or played too many video games.

 

I've always wondered why there are so few shootings like this per capita in places like North Dakota, South Dakota, etc. I just can't figure it out. I wonder if the guns here behave themselves better? Makes me think that other areas of the country should start buying their guns from the same place we buy them from.

 

 

 

 

 

Uhh...it's full of hoodlums.

 

Same with other places people choose to live on top of each other. Yay for highrises, ho-ho's, $5 crack hits, and 40 ounce bottles beer!

/

 

The sarcasm here is outstanding.

[RLLD 4,275]

Yeah, I have kids. And my sister is a teacher and always has stories about Johnny's mom b1tching about the grade he got instead of actually making Johnny work for the grade. I also see kids who have every gadget and toy imaginable and expect to get the latest iPhone, etc, when they come out. Most of these kids get squashed when real life comes calling. I just don't think this is as much of a factor in shootings as is mental illness.

 

I agree that our generation has dropped the ball on raising our kids in many ways. My kids get straight As because they know a C is not acceptable and a B is barely acceptable. I remember looking at my kid's homework once, and the words he was writing were falling off the line on the paper. I made him do it over even though the answer was right, and he was furious. But he didn't have any problem doing it neatly after that.

 

I tend to think that more kids are being done a disservice by absent parents than by coddling parents. And if you want to argue that absent parents are a factor in violence in lower income, inner city environments, I'm completely on board with that. Those kids don't usually shoot up a mall, though, they just kill each other.

 

 

 

Same.

 

And, we make time to sit with them to talk about school, not just grades and classes, but the kids they talk to, what else is being said. We are involved in their lives. At the end of the day, the year, of school in general, it is not the teachers fault of my kids do not learn; its my fault and its the kids fault. It's MY job to teach them how to behave, how to approach school and life and how to strive and survive. If they do not follow my guidance and strike out on their own, they will then accept responsibility for the outcome......and I will STILL always be there to help them, catch them, prop them up for another round.

 

If they fail they better not blame the teachers, or me, or their skin color, religion, sexual persuasion, or any other insipid factor of convenience we hear about daily. You fail, its because you did not try.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

I don't think it's one specific point that's causing this. I think it's a huge conglomeration of issues that have come together in an increasingly deadly mix.

 

I think the trophy syndrome is a huge factor. Kids never learn, and learn to cope with, the fact that life doesn't recognize your struggle and effort, only your success.

 

The desensitization to violence by video games plays a huge part. Impressionable kids can't be continually exposed to that stuff without it warping their sense of courses of action and consequences.

 

I also think today's technology plays an immense role in the problem. Back in my days in school, bullying went on like it has for decades, but it ended at school. Now with things like MySpace and Facebook, kids are exposed to being bullied all of the time and to a much greater scale. Add into that all of the awareness of bullying at school, which I think is important but just like anything else it's created it's own set of problems, and you have more kids that are becoming too sensitive to bullying issues and therefore feeling slighted and ostracized.

 

I think it's just a huge mix of these issues. And I don't think fixing any one area will improve the problem. To fix this it's going to take addressing all areas together.

 

Agreed, I do think its an amalgamation of a lot of factors.

[TheBlade 3]

Agreed, I do think its an amalgamation of a lot of factors.

That's 2 for 2 now that we've agreed.

 

Obummer sucks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Obummer sucks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Casual Observer 597]

Agreed, I do think its an amalgamation of a lot of factors.

 

I thought it was video games?

[IGotWorms 4,060]

I thought it was video games?

 

You're still here? I thought I told you to make yourself useful or scram.

[edjr 6,732]

More people are killed by abortions than guns every year in this country you focking moron.

 

 

 

:happy fathers day:

 

People?

 

yup, you're retarded. However, please keep posting.

[Casual Observer 597]

You're still here? I thought I told you to make yourself useful or scram.

 

I like pointing out the retardation you bring. I think that's useful.

 

Also, I don't take orders from you, Clarence Darrow.

[RLLD 4,275]

Smoking causes more deaths than handguns, hell there are more deaths from suicide.....but people seem to lose sight of these two when you have sensationalism at hand.

 

Handguns are recognized as the main "weapon" used to cause harm, followed by knives, and then other crap.

 

Why not go after handguns? They are very profitable. Why focus on assault weapons? It's the greatest threat to the governmental control.

[parrot 789]

hy focus on assault weapons?

 

The assault rifle is low-hanging fruit. It looks nasty, it's designed to kill people, and they are owned by a much narrower demographic than handguns or sporting rifles and shotguns.

[BLS 314]

The assault rifle is low-hanging fruit. It looks nasty, it's designed to kill people, and they are owned by a much narrower demographic than handguns or sporting rifles and shotguns.

 

 

I hunt with my AR15.

I don't hunt with my Glock 19 (or XDm 9, or 1911, or LCP 380 or XD 40).

 

 

 

See my point?

 

Lynyrd Skynyrd was right. Handguns ARE made for killing. They ain't no good for nothing else.

[parrot 789]

I hunt with my AR15.

I don't hunt with my Glock 19 (or XDm 9, or 1911, or LCP 380 or XD 40).

 

 

 

See my point?

 

Lynyrd Skynyrd was right. Handguns ARE made for killing. They ain't no good for nothing else.

 

Maybe you hunt with your AR, but the things that make it an "assault weapon" don't have anything to do with hunting. It's a visceral reaction; a lot of people find a gun designed for hunting more palatable than an "assault weapon", even though that hunting rifle will make your ass every bit as dead at the end of the day. I never meant to suggest that handguns are used for hunting much, but handguns are owned by a much wider swath of people, thus you encounter more resistance when you suggest restricting or banning them. To anti-gun people assault rifles are like focking a fat chick, it's not what they really want, but it's something they think they might be able to get.

[GobbleDog 1,006]

I don't think it's one specific point that's causing this. I think it's a huge conglomeration of issues that have come together in an increasingly deadly mix.

 

I think the trophy syndrome is a huge factor. Kids never learn, and learn to cope with, the fact that life doesn't recognize your struggle and effort, only your success.

 

The desensitization to violence by video games plays a huge part. Impressionable kids can't be continually exposed to that stuff without it warping their sense of courses of action and consequences.

 

I also think today's technology plays an immense role in the problem. Back in my days in school, bullying went on like it has for decades, but it ended at school. Now with things like MySpace and Facebook, kids are exposed to being bullied all of the time and to a much greater scale. Add into that all of the awareness of bullying at school, which I think is important but just like anything else it's created it's own set of problems, and you have more kids that are becoming too sensitive to bullying issues and therefore feeling slighted and ostracized.

 

I think it's just a huge mix of these issues. And I don't think fixing any one area will improve the problem. To fix this it's going to take addressing all areas together.

Japan, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Australia, Canada, and most 1st world countries have kids with "trophy syndrome" and they all play violent video games, and there's bullying at schools.

 

Guess what they don't have?

 

 

Once the sale of firearms and ammunition is finally outlawed in this country someday (75+ years from now), society will still have violent crime for several years after. It'll take time for existing guns to be taken out of circulation via buy-back programs and various means. It'll also take time for the black-market cost to reach unaffordable prices, but it'll price out the poor first (which is good).

 

I won't live to see that day, but my grandkids might.

[Strike 5,841]

Japan, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Australia, Canada, and most 1st world countries have kids with "trophy syndrome" and they all play violent video games, and there's bullying at schools.

 

Guess what they don't have?

 

 

 

Pretty sure we don't have a monopoly on this type of crime. You do know that a couple weeks before the shooting at the theater in CO a few months back, one of the victims of that tragedy went through a similar ordeal in a Canadian mall, right? Except she survived that incident.

[jerryskids 6,960]

Japan, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Australia, Canada, and most 1st world countries have kids with "trophy syndrome" and they all play violent video games, and there's bullying at schools.

 

Guess what they don't have?

 

 

Once the sale of firearms and ammunition is finally outlawed in this country someday (75+ years from now), society will still have violent crime for several years after. It'll take time for existing guns to be taken out of circulation via buy-back programs and various means. It'll also take time for the black-market cost to reach unaffordable prices, but it'll price out the poor first (which is good).

 

I won't live to see that day, but my grandkids might.

 

 

 

The Osaka School Massacre took place on June 8, 2001, at Ikeda Elementary School, an elite primary school affiliated with Osaka Kyoiku University in Osaka Prefecture, Japan.

 

 

At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.^[2]

 

 

I'm guessing I could find some in the other countries.

 

Also, I would guess that parenting in Japanese culture is a little different than it is here.

[NorthernVike 2,088]

 

 

 

Once the sale of firearms and ammunition is finally outlawed in this country someday (75+ years from now), society will still have violent crime for several years after. It'll take time for existing guns to be taken out of circulation via buy-back programs and various means. It'll also take time for the black-market cost to reach unaffordable prices, but it'll price out the poor first (which is good).

 

 

 

Yeah, just like drugs are so expensive no one can afford them.

[parrot 789]

 

I'm guessing I could find some in the other countries.

 

Also, I would guess that parenting in Japanese culture is a little different than it is here.

 

What about Korean parenting? The Virginia Tech shooter was a Korean immigrant as were his parents. He was described as having socialization problems clear back to his childhood in Korea.

 

Mass shooters are all over the map as far as the particulars of their upbringings and home life. Some come from strict families, some from permissive families. 2 parent and 1 parent, poor and well-off, religious and non, well educated and not so well educated, ETC. The idea that you can pin this on a certain type of parenting style doesn't seem to be supported by the data that I've seen. As already suggested by a couple posters, the one real common thread seems to be some level of mental illness.

[jerryskids 6,960]

What about Korean parenting? The Virginia Tech shooter was a Korean immigrant as were his parents. He was described as having socialization problems clear back to his childhood in Korea.

 

Mass shooters are all over the map as far as the particulars of their upbringings and home life. Some come from strict families, some from permissive families. 2 parent and 1 parent, poor and well-off, religious and non, well educated and not so well educated, ETC. The idea that you can pin this on a certain type of parenting style doesn't seem to be supported by the data that I've seen. As already suggested by a couple posters, the one real common thread seems to be some level of mental illness.

I can't tell if you are arguing with me or not.

 

GobbleDog was trying to argue that only the US has mass murders and that gun availability is the only difference. I was pointing out (1) mass murders happen in the countries he listed, and (2) there are other differences.

[tikigods 76]

Malls should be banned.

and movies.

 

and Batman.

 

and annoying wives.

 

and Christmas.

 

There may be more.

[GobbleDog 1,006]

Yeah, just like drugs are so expensive no one can afford them.

You can't grow guns. Bad comparison.

[BudBro 183]

You can't grow guns. Bad comparison.

you can print a working model that fires a bullet on one of those 3D printers. soon, we won't even need to go outside the house to arm ourselves. quill will send the print cartridges right to the house...next day.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

and movies.

 

and Batman.

 

and annoying wives.

 

and Christmas.

 

There may be more.

Yes.

 

All of those and more if we subscribe to the anti-Constitution crowd.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

and movies.

 

and Batman.

 

and annoying wives.

 

and Christmas.

 

There may be more.

 

No

No

Yes

Maybe

 

Definitely malls