Zimmerman - Guilty of Murder or Self Defense

[Mike Honcho 5,302]

 

But you stated that "He also never should've followed TM", and I disagree with that statement. In so far as the gun, he was in legal ownership of that weapon, he broke no laws by carrying it. if in doing so he violated a rule then he should be held accountable for that action. He was keeping an eye on the suspicious person, that is not breaking ANY law, he broke no law by following that person, in fact the 911 operator stated that he should keep an eye on the suspicious person.

 

His behavior was not illegal, not inappropriate, he caused no injury until the person in question elected to engage him, and then attempt to beat his ass.

 

This criminalization of his behavior in such a manner as to suggest his actions justify what this kid did to provoke the situation into a deadly outcome is repugnant, the kid....by HIS OWN ACTIONS....brought about the negative consequences.

 

Let this be a lesson to us all, if you seek a physical confrontation just because you don't like the way someone looks, or because you think they are following you, then you are setting yourself up for a negative outcome, you might even die, so don't be focking stupid, for your own sake.

I guess the only thing I take issue with is that you are taking as fact how the engagement started, when nobody can really know what happened. In the scenario you and GZ have described, yes I believe he did have a right to defend himself with force, but It's just as possible that GZ did confronted TM(unaccounted for 2 minutes),,,,,"hey what are you doing here", he could of tried to restrain him until the police showed up, ensuing struggle commences.

 

When all is said and done I agree the jury got it right(especially with the lower standard needed to claim self-defense in FL), but I'm not sure I 100% believe GZ about exactly how this all occurred.

[Phurfur 70]

I guess the only thing I take issue with is that you are taking as fact how the engagement started, when nobody can really know what happened. In the scenario you and GZ have described, yes I believe he did have a right to defend himself with force, but It's just as possible that GZ did confronted TM(unaccounted for 2 minutes),,,,,"hey what are you doing here", he could of tried to restrain him until the police showed up, ensuing struggle commences.

 

When all is said and done I agree the jury got it right(especially with the lower standard needed to claim self-defense in FL), but I'm not sure I 100% believe GZ about exactly how this all occurred.

I am going to my father's house, he lives .......

[MDC 7,514]

 

Incorrect. My statements are fact, he broke no laws plain and simple, we know this. A strawman argument is rhetorical device that deliberately misrepresents and weakens the argument of the other side. This is what you did when you stated "It's sad to me that you will teach your kids that an irresponsible macho / juvenile cop wannabe is someone to be admired.", it was a rhetorical statement which deliberately misrepresentation what I actually said because you cannot speak to the point in question.

A straw man argument is your repeated insistence that he didn't break any laws. I never said he did, that has nothing to do with whether his actions were responsible or smart (they weren't).

[RLLD 4,256]

I guess the only thing I take issue with is that you are taking as fact how the engagement started, when nobody can really know what happened. In the scenario you and GZ have described, yes I believe he did have a right to defend himself with force, but It's just as possible that GZ did confronted TM(unaccounted for 2 minutes),,,,,"hey what are you doing here", he could of tried to restrain him until the police showed up, ensuing struggle commences.

 

When all is said and done I agree the jury got it right(especially with the lower standard needed to claim self-defense in FL), but I'm not sure I 100% believe GZ about exactly how this all occurred.

 

Valid.

 

We only really have Zimmerman's explanation of what transpired. A reasonable question is whether or not Zimmerman initiated physical contact, and if that could be proven then the guy should face murder 2, and a stiff prison term.

 

Then again, I can see how frustrating it is that the pivotal piece becomes "who started it", instead of who killed who. If Martin initiated the physical confrontation then Zimmerman is within his right, if not Zimmerman is guilty as hell; its almost insane.

 

Physical confrontation aside, if the eyewitness is accurate in his announcement that Martin was indeed on top of Zimmerman, and appeared to be hitting him, then Zimmerman did not have reasonable means of escape, and could reasonably consider his life in danger, and was justified in shooting his assailant. I think this is true whether he initiated the altercation or not.

[MDC 7,514]

MDC has either decided he is going to spend his time here fishing, or he has eaten a heaping bowl of stupid.

I see you're going to continue spending your time being a name-calling guttersnipe.

 

Prolly for the best, your attempts at discussion are almost always cringeworthy.

[RLLD 4,256]

A straw man argument is your repeated insistence that he didn't break any laws. I never said he did, that has nothing to do with whether his actions were responsible or smart (they weren't).

 

You are asserting that he should not have followed him, but he has every right to walk where he pleases. I mention the law because he indeed broke no law, but if Martin struck him ( an act that we cannot be sure did happen I will admit) then Martin broke a law. I say this because this travesty of a trial should have never transpired, given that the only law we can reasonably assume was broken was done by travon martin ( based on witness testimony).

 

I did not pursue or execute a strawman, but that is really not relevant.

[MDC 7,514]

You are asserting that he should not have followed him, but he has every right to walk where he pleases. I

Having a right to do something doesn't make it the smart thing to do. If you can't see that we just have a fundamental disagreement and there's no point in continuing this discussion.

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

You are asserting that he should not have followed him, but he has every right to walk where he pleases. I mention the law because he indeed broke no law, but if Martin struck him ( an act that we cannot be sure did happen I will admit) then Martin broke a law. I say this because this travesty of a trial should have never transpired, given that the only law we can reasonably assume was broken was done by travon martin ( based on witness testimony).

 

I did not pursue or execute a strawman, but that is really not relevant.

 

Whether he has the right to walk there or not (he does)...does not mean that he should have followed him.

[RLLD 4,256]

Having a right to do something doesn't make it the smart thing to do. If you can't see that we just have a fundamental disagreement and there's no point in continuing this discussion.

 

I agree on this point, for both individuals involved in this unfortunate event.

 

Perhaps we can just agree to disagree,

[RLLD 4,256]

 

Whether he has the right to walk there or not (he does)...does not mean that he should have followed him.

 

I do not object to him following him, nor to your assertion that he should not have done so, his act to follow Trayvon Martin did not justify the actions of Trayvon Martin. I do not have the right to strike another person because they are a creep-ass-cracker, or following me.

 

The only thing that actually matters in this case is something we cannot ever know for certain. Did either person involved have the reasonable ability to retreat. Both men appear to have approached each other, no problem there, people approach each other every day, no laws broken.

 

Did one of them then strike the other? Who did so? did that other person have the ability to retreat?

 

If we are to believe the witness, then Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him, martin was then shot. Zimmerman did not have the reasonable ability to retreat, and reasonably feared for his life at that time, and was within reason to defend himself using the weapon.

 

It's really rather simple. Stand your ground was never part of this, right of self defense was, and was proven according to the jury.

[phillybear 366]

You are in a gated community, going house to house, over people's lawns.

 

Jumping Jiminy on a focking pogo stick, how focking stupid must you be to not understand that somebody is very, very likely watching you because that's what they do in gated communities. That's why the residents pay extra. So that all visitors are being watched. Trayvon Martin was a colossal dummy.

[NorthernVike 2,087]

 

I do not object to him following him, nor to your assertion that he should not have done so, his act to follow Trayvon Martin did not justify the actions of Trayvon Martin. I do not have the right to strike another person because they are a creep-ass-cracker, or following me.

 

The only thing that actually matters in this case is something we cannot ever know for certain. Did either person involved have the reasonable ability to retreat. Both men appear to have approached each other, no problem there, people approach each other every day, no laws broken.

 

Did one of them then strike the other? Who did so? did that other person have the ability to retreat?

 

If we are to believe the witness, then Martin was on top of Zimmerman and beating him, martin was then shot. Zimmerman did not have the reasonable ability to retreat, and reasonably feared for his life at that time, and was within reason to defend himself using the weapon.

 

It's really rather simple. Stand your ground was never part of this, right of self defense was, and was proven according to the jury.

Their biotching and moaning is now to the point where they are just trying to get a rise out of us. I'm done with them.

[wiffleball 4,790]

You are in a gated community, going house to house, over people's lawns.

 

Jumping Jiminy on a focking pogo stick, how focking stupid must you be to not understand that somebody is very, very likely watching you because that's what they do in gated communities. That's why the residents pay extra. So that all visitors are being watched. Trayvon Martin was a colossal dummy.

 

 

First off, their gate system - sucks. As I understand it, gates keep people OUT of places.

 

But this place just has random skittle-wielding nergoes wandering all over the place.

 

I'd want my HOA fee back until they fixed this infestation and got better gates.

[jerryskids 6,857]

I see you're going to continue spending your time being a name-calling guttersnipe.

 

Prolly for the best, your attempts at discussion are almost always cringeworthy.

 

 

 

It's sad to me that you will teach your kids that an irresponsible macho / juvenile cop wannabe is someone to be admired.

 

 

How else would you describe this response to RLLD?

[phillybear 366]

 

 

First off, their gate system - sucks. As I understand it, gates keep people OUT of places.

 

But this place just has random skittle-wielding nergoes wandering all over the place.

 

I'd want my HOA fee back until they fixed this infestation and got better gates.

I'm pretty sure gates aren't keeping gators out of people's decks. It's Florida, after all. And you now have giant snakes opening doors, including pythons, which, you guessed it, Florida is filthy with them.

 

Which is yet another reason for Zimmerman to be packing heat.

[Phurfur 70]

The real question is, Why does the left want to disarm America? Think about it!

[wiffleball 4,790]

I'm pretty sure gates aren't keeping gators out of people's decks. It's Florida, after all. And you now have giant snakes opening doors, including pythons, which, you guessed it, Florida is filthy with them.

 

Which is yet another reason for Zimmerman to be packing heat.

 

 

Gators. And nrgoes and snakes, oh my!

 

 

 

Gators

[MDC 7,514]

 

How else would you describe this response to RLLD?

That wasn't fishing, or attacking RLLD. We capably worked it out without your help Jerry.

[drobeski 3,061]

The real question is, Why does the left want to disarm America? Think about it!

Very good question

[Phurfur 70]

The worst oppressors of young black men are older black men who abandon their children.

[wiffleball 4,790]

The real question is, Why does the left want to disarm America? Think about it!

DX. FAIRGATE

[wiffleball 4,790]

The worst oppressors of young black men are older black men who abandon their children.

 

Is goin to. Prison abandonment?

[Sho Nuff 720]

The real question is, Why does the left want to disarm America? Think about it!

 

The real question is...why do you think the left wants to do so?

Because a few of their extremists in their party want to?

[Sho Nuff 720]

Very good question

 

For braindead idiots it is.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

For braindead idiots it is.

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

Yes...you do cry alot.

Need a tissue? Or for phurfur...a Kleenex since we all have been brainwashed by the government.

[peenie 1,916]

46 million in poverty and 31 miilion of them are white

70% of welfare (tanf) recipients are white

46 million people recieve foodstamps and 36 million of them are white

 

it's really tiring to read you all repeating the same ole tired lies: blacks on welfare, blacks in jail....blah, blah, blah...

 

The national homicide rate for 2011 was 4.8 per 100,000 citizens — less than half of what it was in the early years of the Great Depression

 

back when blacks were still working on farms, who was killing then???

 

“We’re at as low a place as we’ve been in the past 100 years,” says Randolph Roth, professor of history at Ohio State University and author of this year’s "American Homicide," a landmark study of the history of killing in the United States.

 

you guys really need to stop watching the wire. it's making you paranoid.

[parrot 789]

46 million in poverty and 31 miilion of them are white

70% of welfare (tanf) recipients are white

46 million people recieve foodstamps and 36 million of them are white

 

it's really tiring to read you all repeating the same ole tired lies: blacks on welfare, blacks in jail....blah, blah, blah...

Could we get a link to your source for these figures.

[FlaHawker 24]

[jerryskids 6,857]

46 million in poverty and 31 miilion of them are white

70% of welfare (tanf) recipients are white

46 million people recieve foodstamps and 36 million of them are white

 

it's really tiring to read you all repeating the same ole tired lies: blacks on welfare, blacks in jail....blah, blah, blah...

 

back when blacks were still working on farms, who was killing then???

 

 

you guys really need to stop watching the wire. it's making you paranoid.

Good point, Ima go riot somewhere, maybe beat somebody with a hammer in protest.

[jerryskids 6,857]

Rasmussen: Near-majority agrees with Zimmerman verdict, 48/34

posted at 2:01 pm on July 17, 2013 by Allahpundit

Significant, not only because it’s the first major poll of public opinion about the verdict but because Holder will think twice about bringing federal charges if he believes it’s a sure political loser for his boss.

We’ll need more polls before drawing hard conclusions but here’s data point number one:

Reactions to the jury decision in the shooting of Trayvon Martin vary sharply along racial lines.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 48% of American Adults agree with the jury’s verdict that Hispanic neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman is not guilty of murder in the shooting death of the black teenager. Thirty-four percent (34%) disagree with the Florida jury’s verdict. Eighteen percent (18%) are not sure.

I have the crosstabs in front of me but they’re reg-walled for subscribers only, so I’ll give you the broad outline without providing actual numbers. The white/black split on the verdict is what you’d expect, as is the fact that men are much more likely to agree with the outcome than women are. One big question mark is how Latinos feel about it; Rasmussen didn’t list them as a separate racial demographic in the poll, choosing to include everyone who’s neither white nor black in the “other” category, but “other” ended up agreeing with the verdict almost (but not quite) to the same extent as the public generally did. Politico marveled last night that not once during four separate interviews yesterday with Univision and Telemundo did Obama get a question about the Zimmerman verdict, even though the White House issued a statement about it on Sunday and the DOJ is supposedly seriously considering filing federal charges. Not one question. Said one TV executive: “It’s unbelievable that any journalist with access to the President this week wouldn’t ask the first African-American president about his reaction to the verdict.” Indeed it is, but it makes sense if you assume that it’s not so much an oversight as a deliberate omission. Spanish-language media and Obama are united in wanting comprehensive immigration reform; the whole point of the interviews was to give O a pipeline to Latino voters in order to put pressure on the GOP. If, as Rasmussen’s numbers suggest (but don’t prove), Latinos lean toward thinking that Zimmerman deserved to be acquitted, then both O and his partners at Univision and Telemundo would want to stay away from this subject lest it complicate the White House’s PR initiative.

Rasmussen also asked people what they thought of media coverage of the trial, but those results are hard to parse. Only a few people think it was “excellent,” but the spread among “good,” “fair,” and “poor” isn’t wide. And of course, “poor” can include people from both ends of the spectrum, those who think the coverage was unfair to Zimmerman and those who think it was, surreally, biased in his favor. There isn’t a wide racial gap here, in fact; the big gap, oddly, comes among men under 40 and women under 40. The former thought the coverage was quite good. The latter didn’t. Huh. Maybe that’s just a fluke from a small subsample.

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/17/rasmussen-near-majority-agrees-with-zimmerman-verdict-4834/

[MedStudent 56]

46 million in poverty and 31 miilion of them are white

70% of welfare (tanf) recipients are white

46 million people recieve foodstamps and 36 million of them are white

 

it's really tiring to read you all repeating the same ole tired lies: blacks on welfare, blacks in jail....blah, blah, blah...

 

back when blacks were still working on farms, who was killing then???

 

 

you guys really need to stop watching the wire. it's making you paranoid.

So, if its not economics, why do you think more murders are committed by blacks than whites and why is the black murder rate 7.5 times that of whites? I believe my previous post about the gangsta culture among the black community is partly responsible for the disparity.

[RLLD 4,256]

 

 

Great stuff! There is truth in that one.

[Baker Boy 1,704]

The Justice Department announced Tuesday it will not file federal civil rights charges against George Zimmerman, the Florida man who was acquitted last year of second-degree murder for shooting Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager

[drobeski 3,061]

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40017&d=1331855046

[edjr 6,609]

Democrats - Guilty

Republicans - Innocent

 

don't you love this country?

[drobeski 3,061]

Democrats - Guilty

Republicans - Innocent

 

don't you love this country?

actually its the law = not guilty

but once again don't let facts get in the way of your nonsense.

[HenryHill9323 65]

Only took the genius Holder 3 years to figure out what any thinking person knew within weeks.

[Magnificent Bastard 191]

Punk with a gun.

[HenryHill9323 65]

Punk with a gun.

Holder carries?