non pass interference at the end of NE vs CAR

[highsider5 36]

wow... audio was off at my pub of choice here, who knows WTF happened?

 

they chose to not call PI but, holding did occur, was it ruled uncatchable???

[Sho Nuff 720]

They just claimed no foul after talking about it.

 

Gronk was raped...but the ball was terribly underthrown.

Even had Gronk not been touched...no way he makes the catch having to then go through another defender in better position (who intercepted it).

[highsider5 36]

hmm, based on visual (no audio=deaf) I figured that... tom terrific is just not the same this year and its a bit of a shame, that ball was not even close, he used to kill teams like that...

 

well, guess the law of averages pwn3d the Tominator finally

[Sho Nuff 720]

Just glad the Pats actually had a call go against them.

[tanatastic 2,062]

The ball was horribly thrown, otherwise he'd have gotten the call. Toms fault completely, he's just not playing great this year period.

[p00h 85]

Tommy ain't what he used to be. Father Time, or mother, has a way of doing that...still a legend

 

 

Jets fan

[IGotWorms 4,057]

hmm, based on visual (no audio=deaf) I figured that... tom terrific is just not the same this year and its a bit of a shame, that ball was not even close, he used to kill teams like that...

 

well, guess the law of averages pwn3d the Tominator finally

Brady got pressured up the middle and couldn't step into the throw. Hence the underthrow. It's been a tougher road for Brady this year for sure but I wouldn't count him out.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Another point I'd make is had Gronkowski actually fought to get back to the ball I think that flag would have stood. Can't fault Gronk too much but it's another example of a receiver needing to come back to the ball.

[R8RMick 242]

He was getting held in the end zone with the ball in the air, so should have been defensive holding minimum. A non-call in that case is acceptable, but not a picked up flag... NFL refs are f*cking up all kinds of sh*t this season.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

They had this old ref dude trying to explain it on ESPN and he just made it seem like a way worse decision to pick up the flag. His reasoning was the ball wouldn't have gotten to Gronk because it was intercepted...uh, yeah, because Gronk was being held such that he could not get back to the ball. Extremely stupid rationale and I hope it wasn't the one employed by the actual refs.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Another point I'd make is had Gronkowski actually fought to get back to the ball I think that flag would have stood. Can't fault Gronk too much but it's another example of a receiver needing to come back to the ball.

 

It was too quick though.

Just watched again on NFL.com.

At the point Kuechly makes contact, the DB is already breaking towards the ball and Gronk is just trying to plant to come back to it.

He had zero shot at making a play on that ball.

[Sho Nuff 720]

He was getting held in the end zone with the ball in the air, so should have been defensive holding minimum. A non-call in that case is acceptable, but not a picked up flag... NFL refs are f*cking up all kinds of sh*t this season.

 

Can't be defensive holding if the ball is in the air.

 

Tom focked that up by throwing way short.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

 

Can't be defensive holding if the ball is in the air.

 

Tom focked that up by throwing way short.

Watch the play again, Brady had pressure from in front and so couldn't step into the throw. Not saying he couldn't have done better but that's why the throw was short.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Watch the play again, Brady had pressure from in front and so couldn't step into the throw. Not saying he couldn't have done better but that's why the throw was short.

 

Sure...just saying it was not the refs that just focked up things like the other poster said.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

 

Sure...just saying it was not the refs that just focked up things like the other poster said.

I'd say it's 50/50. That was a penalty but given that Gronk had little chance to make a play anyway I would've been pissed as a Panthers fan if the call were made.

 

At the end of the day the real stories were

 

1) Cam Newton converting several critical third down plays with his legs and making enough good throws down the field. And he really only made one stupid decision all game (the throw into double coverage that the Pats probably should've picked off).

 

2) The Pats really hurt themselves early with stupid penalties and Ridley's fumble

[highsider5 36]

well, thanks to my 1337 DVR skillz I watched the end of the game, all the talking head analysis I could stand, and several seconds of the hoodies press conference... and by far the most offensive thing of the night is that press conference, do they all seriously sit there and glare at each other like that all the time?!?! what in the M F....

 

anyways... upon further review, as much as it pains me to side with the evil team, it you don't call PI there, you gotta call holding... if you don't call either, why was that flag thrown in the first place... no call, no explanation, no logic... well, all I can think is this is a direct result of the sports universe's beginning in its effort to justifiably level out the true injustice formally known as the tuck rule.

[vash1012 19]

It seems like it shoulda been a penalty of some sort. I imagine had it been earlier in the game and wouldn't have been giving the pats a really really good shot at winning the game in the panthers stadium..it woulda been a penalty. They can explain it away all they want and I'm happy my Panthers won, but this is just a shining example of what happens when you give a sport a 500 page book of subjective rules. How long do you guys give it before we have booth reviews of all penalties and games last 4.5 hours?

[vash1012 19]

well, thanks to my 1337 DVR skillz I watched the end of the game, all the talking head analysis I could stand, and several seconds of the hoodies press conference... and by far the most offensive thing of the night is that press conference, do they all seriously sit there and glare at each other like that all the time?!?! what in the M F....

 

anyways... upon further review, as much as it pains me to side with the evil team, it you don't call PI there, you gotta call holding... if you don't call either, why was that flag thrown in the first place... no call, no explanation, no logic... well, all I can think is this is a direct result of the sports universe's beginning in its effort to justifiably level out the true injustice formally known as the tuck rule.

 

Its just home field advantage. The refs were looking for a way to wiggle out of making that call to give the pats a chance to flop into the end zone from the 1 for the win due to a guy breaking the rules when it really didn't have any effect on the play. Gronk wasn't catching it regardless so it would have been equally crappy for the refs to call the penalty and give the Panthers a W they didn't really deserve. The way they called that IS within the rules, but ISN'T aligned with how that is normally called. The problem isn't the call itself..its how much subjectivity there is in the rules themselves.

[highsider5 36]

good point, proper subjectivity makes a game.. as a soccer ref, albeit for kids in Ayso, it matters how a came is called.. as a center ref, it's in your hands if you screw up. personally, I haven't been in a game breaking spot like that, however if and when I am, I hope I look more fair than the crew at the end of this game. right or wrong, they should have explained the call... even for the 6yo's I always explain the call.

[vino 29]

Another point I'd make is had Gronkowski actually fought to get back to the ball I think that flag would have stood. Can't fault Gronk too much but it's another example of a receiver needing to come back to the ball.

 

this ^^

 

if Gronk made an effort towards the ball rather than let himself to drift away from it, i think the flag would've been upheld without a doubt. I don't think he would've caught it, but he was still held in a play that no one really knows if he coul've make it or not.. It wasn't way over his head or that far in front of him.. Question is, who really knows if he could've caught it? NO ONE, litteraly, no one knows either way, because he wasn't even given the chance.. a.k.a... PENALTY, one last play.

[gcmmidwest 149]

1) Cam Newton converting several critical third down plays with his legs and making enough good throws down the field. And he really only made one stupid decision all game (the throw into double coverage that the Pats probably should've picked off).

 

the refs called a phantom p.i./holding on the critical 3rd down

[TUM301 10]

thought it might be illegal contact, 1 final play from the 13 yard line.

[NewbieJr 541]

First call I've seen go against the Patriots since Brady took over at quarterback. About damn time.

[Love My Lions 1]

I am not a Pats fan, but there was a flag there for a reason and if you watch the replay the defender was mugging Gronk while not looking for the ball at all. Hence, a flag that should not have been picked up. That's like saying if two receivers are heading down opposite side lines and the ball is thrown incomplete to one side line while the defender tackles the receiver on the other side line there would be no flag. Hmmm.... I think they call it common sense officiating! There was a penalty on that play regardless of Tom's poor pass.

[nzoner 937]

Those who bet Panthers -3 and/or the under total of 46 were very happy to see the flag picked up.

[R8RMick 242]

 

Can't be defensive holding if the ball is in the air.

 

Tom focked that up by throwing way short.

If that is the rule my bad there.I think Chris Carter had the best post game take, and that is if Gronk play acts and waves his arms wildly there's no way they pick that flag up. I would have been fine with a non call in that situation, I think most people are pissed because they threw the flag and then picked it up.Fans are getting sick of this crap in the NFL.

 

And Patriots have themselves to blame for not running the ball on 3rd and one earlier in the quarter when they were down in the red zone.

 

Personally I think it is all much ado about nothing, as Carolina would have probably stopped them on 1st and goal with no time left anyhow.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Can pass interference be called on a tipped ball that happened in front of the offensive reciever?

[rallo 136]

i don't really have a dog in this fight, but it looked like defensive holding to me. Guy had Gronk in a full out bear hug before the ball was in the air... seems like you can't justify the 'underneath defender' as that doesn't apply before the ball is thrown. Would have been nice to see another play, but oh well... I've seen worse calls... THIS WEEK even

[highsider5 36]

If that is the rule my bad there.I think Chris Carter had the best post game take, and that is if Gronk play acts and waves his arms wildly there's no way they pick that flag up. I would have been fine with a non call in that situation, I think most people are pissed because they threw the flag and then picked it up.Fans are getting sick of this crap in the NFL.

 

And Patriots have themselves to blame for not running the ball on 3rd and one earlier in the quarter when they were down in the red zone.

 

Personally I think it is all much ado about nothing, as Carolina would have probably stopped them on 1st and goal with no time left anyhow.

don't know on that... bellicheat is the king of my favorite scoring play ever, short square in to the TE over the middle... I can see gronk nabbing that throw, the pats have run that exact play forever, it's tough to defend.

 

oh well, pats got the short end of the stick... bew hew

[ValenciaCF 2]

_{Non-Pats fan speaking here...}

 

_{Unless that ball was thrown into the mezzanine, there should have been a penalty. You cannot knit pick contact based on the EXACT pinpointing of a pass' destination. If that ball is in the area, then a flag should be thrown. Gronk was mugged. End of story.}

 

_{Secondly, the Brady criticisms from above are maddening. Let's take the following into consideration: Welker leaves for Denver. Hernandez does his best Rae Carruth impersonation during the offseason. Gronk does not return till week 7. Vereen does not return till last night. A guy by the name of Kenbrell Thompkins (WHO?) becomes his go-to receiver entering the season. NO ONE in the league does MORE with LESS than Tom Brady. Has anyone taken into account that Carolina currently has one of the best defenses in football? Or that the Pats were on the road against a very strong overall team? Or that Brady and the offense led them down the field for the go ahead score before the defense lost the game on Carolina's final drive? OR that Brady still somehow almost managed to win the game, despite the situation he was put in at the end of the game?}

 

_{OR, that Brady threw the go ahead TD in the first Super Bowl against the Giants, only to watch his defense fail him miserably? OR, that Welker dropped a routine pass that would have virtually ran the clock out in the second Super Bowl against the Giants?}

 

_{For all of the Brady detractors, please watch the final drive of the Pat-Saints game from a month ago. Furthermore, please take a look at the AFC East Standings. IF anything, this season proves that Brady is still among the elite in the current day NFL. It also further solidifies his legendary status as one of the greatest of all time.}

 

_{I HATE drawing these comparisons, but just visualize this for a moment: Brady lines up behind center with Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, and Julius Thomas.}

 

_{TB12 will have the last say over the critics. If I had one drive to win a game and could choose any QB, I am going with TB12.}

 

_{End man-crush rant here.}

 

[Captain Goomy Noomy Roo 50]

I am not a Pats fan, but there was a flag there for a reason and if you watch the replay the defender was mugging Gronk while not looking for the ball at all. Hence, a flag that should not have been picked up. That's like saying if two receivers are heading down opposite side lines and the ball is thrown incomplete to one side line while the defender tackles the receiver on the other side line there would be no flag. Hmmm.... I think they call it common sense officiating! There was a penalty on that play regardless of Tom's poor pass.

This

[The Bag-O-Bones 5]

I could care less one way or the other here, however what I saw on the replay is the defender who intercepted made his cut for the ball before there was any contact by the linebacker on Gronk. In fact Gronk wasn't even looking back at the time. It was clearly holding and or interference but the DB or S had basically intercepted just when the contract began with the linebacker.

[highsider5 36]

tuck rule

 

years of suffering in the AFC east

 

he's nailing Giselle

 

 

therefore I'm good with seeing him jobbed on this and look forward to the next bad call not going his way

[jerryskids 6,576]

I actually like that they picked up the flag. The official saw what he thought was PI, then saw the defender well in front making the interception. They talked about it and made the right call.

 

I define "right" as the call that represented the reality that Gronk had zero chance of catching it. It might as well have been 20 feet over his head.

 

Also fwiw I'm a Cards fan and was rooting for the Pats to help with wildcard standings vs Carolina.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

thought it might be illegal contact, 1 final play from the 13 yard line.

In hindsight this probably would've been the best call to make

[RoadLizard 73]

As much as it is going to KILL mee to say this..... that was a BAD flag-pickup. Should have been Pats 1st and Gaol at the 1 yard line. It would have sucked and I hate when games come down to penalties but this just doesnt work for me.

 

Ugh - I just defended Brady and The Pats.... must be focking stoned or something.....

[Thornton Melon 607]

It was the right call, according to the rules. Gronk was interfered with, but had no shot at that ball whatsoever. If the defender wasn't even on him, there's no way he would've been able to come back for that ball. End of story.

 

And I'm a Pats fan.

 

That said, I never liked that "uncatchable ball" stipulation on pass interference. It never made sense to me. If a defender has to resort to mugging a receiver to make a play, he should be penalized. Period. Maybe if it's uncatchable, you make it 5 yards and a first down, like illegal contact. But it's got to be a penalty.

[travis_henrys_baby_momma 10]

I loved this call. I'm sick and tired of receivers turning around or stopping....then sticking their hands out...and when the defender runs into them....seeing a flag for PI.

 

Gronk was moving forward. The defender was moving forward. The defender had good position. I like the no-call in these situations.

 

Also-- the refs did handle it properly. They called the contact, but determined the pass was uncatchable and picked up the flag.

 

 

Rule 8, Section 5, Article 3 Permissible Acts

Article 3 Permissible Acts by both teams while the ball is in the air. Acts that are permissible by a player include, but are not limited to:

© Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players, except as specified in 8-3-2 and 8-5-4 pertaining to blocking downfield by the offense.

[KSB2424 3,148]

i don't really have a dog in this fight, but it looked like defensive holding to me.

 

Once the ball is in the air it can't be defensive holding. It has to be pass interference at that point. Defensive holding is called if there is a hold before the ball is thrown.

 

There wasn't contact until the ball was almost in the endzone, so it can't by rule be holding.

[travis_henrys_baby_momma 10]

Also, Tom Brady is a class act:

 

“I didn’t really see the play either so I don’t know whether it was a good call or a bad call. But we had plenty of chances. I’m not making any excuses. [Gronkowski] was kind of weaving in and out of there and I didn’t really want to throw it over his head and out of bounds. So I was a little indecisive. It wasn’t a great throw. No excuses. It should have been a better throw.”