Civil War II

[JT 137]

 

This is pretty much what I'm talking about right here:

 

http://rare.us/story/cliven-bundy-fought-the-law-and-he-won/

 

Cattle rancher in Nevada fights the feds for grazing rights. Been doing it 20 years.... feds bring in a ton of guys to start rounding up this dudes cattle. Rural people from across the nation start getting pissed and showing up to support him, to include ~~ARMED MILITIA~~.

 

The BLM decides yesterday someones going to get hurt and calls it off, releasing the the 400/900 cattle of the guys they had already rounded up.

 

Telling you boys.... this is the sh!t that starts it. There's a huge rural v. urban, rural v. ERABODY thing going on out there right now.

Rural vs urban? Clear case of domestic terrorism. The gov't will get their money. And this thief and the other misguided fools that think he deserves their support will slink away with him.

[RLLD 4,256]

Now this rancher would be a great leader for your modern civil war. He still has not accepted the result of the 1st one. His quote:

 

I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do? he asked. They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And Ive often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didnt get no more freedom. They got less freedom.

 

Jesus...that is frightening, WTF.....

[drobeski 3,061]

 

 

Rural vs urban? Clear case of domestic terrorism. The gov't will get their money. And this thief and the other misguided fools that think he deserves their support will slink away with him.

domestic terrorism huh, who's the terrorist Harry Reid ?

Fake outrage

[JT 137]

 

domestic terrorism huh, who's the terrorist Harry Reid ?

Fake outrage

The terrorists are those that take up arms against the government when it attempts to collect fees to which it is legally entitled.

 

Had it been a group of inner-city Detroit residents taking up arms against the government I doubt you'd have much issue with the term.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

Now this rancher would be a great leader for your modern civil war. He still has not accepted the result of the 1st one. His quote:

 

I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do? he asked. They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And Ive often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didnt get no more freedom. They got less freedom.

I didn't know The Moz was in to ranching

[5-Points 3,578]

 

 

Rural vs urban? Clear case of domestic terrorism. The gov't will get their money. And this thief and the other misguided fools that think he deserves their support will slink away with him.

I would come down on the side of the BLM being the terrorists in this instance. They had snipers camped out on this guy's property days before any militia showed up to support him. They showed up in force to try to intimidate this guy. If this was truly about past due fees, all the government had to do was put a lien on his property. Instead they resorted to cattle rustling. They rounded up his cattle and attempted to take it across state lines and sell it in Utah, the ones they didn't kill that is. They didn't count on the auction houses in Utah telling them to basically go fock themselves. So with no place to sell the cattle they backed down. Bundy is clearly in the wrong as far as refusing to pay grazing fees but in my opinion, the government overreacted first thereby causing and equal and opposite reaction from Bundy.

 

And all of this supposedly over the habitat of an "endangered" tortoise. A habitat that had previously been moved to suit the needs of the likes of Harry Reid and a tortoise that the cattle posed no threat to.

[JT 137]

 

Bundy is clearly in the wrong as far as refusing to pay grazing fees but in my opinion, the government overreacted first thereby causing and equal and opposite reaction from Bundy.

The government has tried to collect these fees for years and Bundy refused all reasonable efforts. They took a more aggressive stance and were met by armed resistors, in support of someone breaking the law.

 

I find this situation interesting, as even the staunchest Bundy supporter has nothing to fall back on other than admitting that he's a thief, but complaining that the authorities went too far in attempting to exact restitution from said thief. So his civil rights were potentially being infringed upon, all while he blatantly and openly refused his responsibilities as a citizen.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

 

The government has tried to collect these fees for years and Bundy refused all reasonable efforts. They took a more aggressive stance and were met by armed resistors, in support of someone breaking the law.

 

I find this situation interesting, as even the staunchest Bundy supporter has nothing to fall back on other than admitting that he's a thief, but complaining that the authorities went too far in attempting to exact restitution from said thief. So his civil rights were potentially being infringed upon, all while he blatantly and openly refused his responsibilities as a citizen.

The only reason anyone would ever land on Bundy's side here is to support their paranoid agenda that the government is going to come and seize everyone's property.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

 

The terrorists are those that take up arms against the government when it attempts to collect fees to which it is legally entitled.

 

Had it been a group of inner-city Detroit residents taking up arms against the government I doubt you'd have much issue with the term.

shouldn't violence need to be in there somewhere?

[5-Points 3,578]

On 4/24/2014 at 7:47 AM, JT said:

 

 

The government has tried to collect these fees for years and Bundy refused all reasonable efforts. They took a more aggressive stance and were met by armed resistors, in support of someone breaking the law.

 

I find this situation interesting, as even the staunchest Bundy supporter has nothing to fall back on other than admitting that he's a thief, but complaining that the authorities went too far in attempting to exact restitution from said thief. So his civil rights were potentially being infringed upon, all while he blatantly and openly refused his responsibilities as a citizen.

The problem as I see it is the "more aggressive stance" taken by the government. They overstepped their authority. They had no right to try to steal his cattle regardless of how much money he owes. Like I said, put a lien on his property, you'll get your money. If he's in contempt of court, fine him or lock him up. You just can't take a person's property by force and not expect backlash.

 

Both sides are at fault here in my opinion.

[Drizzay 723]

What if it was a fight between the East and West?!?!

[TD Ryan2 316]

People with no money are going to be angry when there's no more money left to give from those with money or some money?

 

that's it right there.

It won't be about God or Gays.

It won't be about Rural or Urban.

It won't be about Guns or Abortion.

 

It will be about HAVES and HAVE NOTS..

the HAVE NOTS will come from every race, creed, party, state, etc and they will vastly outnumber the HAVES.

[5-Points 3,578]

 

that's it right there.

It won't be about God or Gays.

It won't be about Rural or Urban.

It won't be about Guns or Abortion.

 

It will be about HAVES and HAVE NOTS..

the HAVE NOTS will come from every race, creed, party, state, etc and they will vastly outnumber the HAVES.

What constitutes being a have? It's completely subjective. I have more than some but less than others. What camp does that put me in? Your scenario is an every man for himself scenario.

[Googballz 39]

The problem as I see it is the "more aggressive stance" taken by the government. They overstepped there authority. They had no right to try to steal his cattle regardless of how much money he owes. Like I said, put a lien on his property, you'll get your money. If he's in contempt of court, fine him or lock him up. You just can't take a person's property by force and not expect backlash.

Both sides are at fault here in my opinion.

I saw a news story the other day that showed all the damage the BLM army did to his property. They tore up corrals, fencing, etc that they had no authority over. That will end up costing the taxpayers.

 

Add that cost to what it cost to mobilize their army and I'm pretty sure his grazing fees owed wouldn't cover it. Another stellar performance by govt dumbfukks.

[5-Points 3,578]

I saw a news story the other day that showed all the damage the BLM army did to his property. They tore up corrals, fencing, etc that they had no authority over. That will end up costing the taxpayers.

 

Add that cost to what it cost to mobilize their army and I'm pretty sure his grazing fees owed wouldn't cover it. Another stellar performance by govt dumbfukks.

I heard the government's number was $1 million in fees owed. I think its a safe bet they spent more than that on their little pissing contest.

[Frank M 181]

This is pretty much what I'm talking about right here:

 

http://rare.us/story/cliven-bundy-fought-the-law-and-he-won/

 

Cattle rancher in Nevada fights the feds for grazing rights. Been doing it 20 years.... feds bring in a ton of guys to start rounding up this dudes cattle. Rural people from across the nation start getting pissed and showing up to support him, to include ~~ARMED MILITIA~~.

 

The BLM decides yesterday someones going to get hurt and calls it off, releasing the the 400/900 cattle of the guys they had already rounded up.

 

Telling you boys.... this is the sh!t that starts it. There's a huge rural v. urban, rural v. ERABODY thing going on out there right now.

You're not talking about the start of civil war, here. You're talking rebellion against the government, and there are not enough people interested in being a part of that for it to ever happen. Any militia group that starts getting too big for its britches, the military will swoop in and fock them up.

 

Just because a bunch of rednecks are pissy and have guns doesn't mean the country is on the brink of anything.

[TD Ryan2 316]

What constitutes being a have?

when the majority of "working" Americans can no longer afford a home, car, health insurance, taxes, education, and food - they become the "have nots".

 

And scarily, we are already there - the average American family spends110 % of what they take home and the debt is piling up - and as much as we like to say it's because every lazy ass owns an iPad, that's not really the problem - the problem is that the cost of the necessities I listed is no longer affordable with an average salary.

 

Economics will be the cause of civil war long before anything else. The potential hopelessness facing the American Worker and middle class is the only thing catastrophic enough for the masses to choose war/violence.

[KSB2424 3,148]

What if it was a fight between the East and West?!?!

 

Biggie > Tupac

[Drizzay 723]

 

Biggie > Tupac

I would agree with that statement.

[parrot 789]

if the south winds you guys have to promise to take all the Negroes back. Except the football players.

[mmmmm...beer 808]

You're not talking about the start of civil war, here. You're talking rebellion against the government, and there are not enough people interested in being a part of that for it to ever happen. Any militia group that starts getting too big for its britches, the military will swoop in and fock them up.

 

Just because a bunch of rednecks are pissy and have guns doesn't mean the country is on the brink of anything.

No... not in this instance, but this is the stuff that really throws fuel on the flames. It's all sparks right now.

[mmmmm...beer 808]

The only reason anyone would ever land on Bundy's side here is to support their paranoid agenda that the government is going to come and seize everyone's property.

Yup... thats what I'm sayin Newbs. Couple that with, the feds are trying to disarm us so they can come do what they did to bundy, gordon call, etc... etc...

 

It does add to it.... Like I said before, I don't think it's going to happen sonnest, but in the next 50 hears.... maybe.

[mmmmm...beer 808]

 

that's it right there.

It won't be about God or Gays.

It won't be about Rural or Urban.

It won't be about Guns or Abortion.

 

It will be about HAVES and HAVE NOTS..

the HAVE NOTS will come from every race, creed, party, state, etc and they will vastly outnumber the HAVES.

I sort of agree to a poInt. I think a step farther as an addition to everything else will be the TAXED and the DOLES.

 

More folks on the dole than working..... Bunny mentioned it earlier. When are the taxed going to get fukin tired of paying for everyone sitting on their muthafukin ass at home smokin weed and playing Xbox?

[5-Points 3,578]

When are the taxed going to get fukin tired of paying for everyone sitting on their muthafukin ass at home smokin weed and playing Xbox?

Already at that point but what are we to do? It's not a case of "can't beat em? Join em". Its not in my nature to be a leech.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

I sort of agree to a poInt. I think a step farther as an addition to everything else will be the TAXED and the DOLES.

 

More folks on the dole than working..... Bunny mentioned it earlier. When are the taxed going to get fukin tired of paying for everyone sitting on their muthafukin ass at home smokin weed and playing Xbox?

You don't bear much of a tax burden compared to many other countries, or even compared to historical levels of taxation in this country. Partly because we run huge deficits instead, but the point is this: you're whining over nothing, really.

[KSB2424 3,148]

You don't bear much of a tax burden compared to many other countries, or even compared to historical levels of taxation in this country. Partly because we run huge deficits instead, but the point is this: you're whining over nothing, really.

 

Income tax? You are correct, the middle class bears little burden. BUT when you add in 1.45% medicare, 6.2% FICA, state income tax, local taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes, on and on and it does add up really fast. Just sayin'.

[Vikings4ever 557]

You don't bear much of a tax burden compared to many other countries, or even compared to historical levels of taxation in this country. Partly because we run huge deficits instead, but the point is this: you're whining over nothing, really.

Actually, if you account for all levels of government taxation, we're about a third of the GDP, higher than 95+% of the country's history.

[Franknbeans 46]

The only reason anyone would ever land on Bundy's side here is to support their paranoid agenda that the government is going to come and seize everyone's property.

 

and they're racist

[crackattack 520]

I want to be on the south's side! I like the south better. Better weather, nice beaches, I love seafood, plus bunny lives in the south. I wanna party with that guy before the shitt hits the fan.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

Actually, if you account for all levels of government taxation, we're about a third of the GDP, higher than 95+% of the country's history.

I'm talking about individual taxes, which is what mmm...beer is complaining about. Tax rates used to be much, MUCH higher at the top end. Now yes, you need to include state and local taxes to get a fair picture of the overall tax burden but when the top rate used to be in the 70s, 80s and even 90s I think a current maximum marginal rate of 35% is pretty darn low.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,465]

I want to be on the south's side! I like the south better. Better weather, nice beaches, I love seafood, plus bunny lives in the south. I wanna party with that guy before the shitt hits the fan.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZWT7Quvuow

 

They have a lot of these down here too.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

According to this article our tax rates on the fairly well-off are lower than:

 

Italy

India

United Kingdom

France

Canada

Japan

and Australia

 

And right in line with Germany. So we are essentially on the bottom end of similar first would economies.

 

If you want super-low taxes move to Russia or Saudi Arabia. I'm sure they are both lovely places to live

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114

[TD Ryan2 316]

I'm talking about individual taxes, which is what mmm...beer is complaining about. Tax rates used to be much, MUCH higher at the top end. Now yes, you need to include state and local taxes to get a fair picture of the overall tax burden but when the top rate used to be in the 70s, 80s and even 90s I think a current maximum marginal rate of 35% is pretty darn low.

 

a WAR isn't going to happen because of Taxation.

mmm... Beer is pointing to the bottom of the barrel as the catalyst for a Civil War - and it won't work that way - it's the TOP of the barrel that will bring it on.

See, we have two problems in this country - the rich get richer and the poor get poorer - and in the end, if we're all being pushed towards the poor because the wealth continues to be focused/funnelled towards a very small minority - the revolt will be against that very small minority that A) has all the wealth and B ) Has all the say/power/control.

 

As much as the welfare leechers p!ss us all off - they are not what will start a Civil War - it will be the ultra-rich who continue to get wealthier at the expense of everyone else.

[Bert 1,128]

According to this article our tax rates on the fairly well-off are lower than:

 

Italy

India

United Kingdom

France

Canada

Japan

and Australia

 

And right in line with Germany. So we are essentially on the bottom end of similar first would economies.

 

If you want super-low taxes move to Russia or Saudi Arabia. I'm sure they are both lovely places to live

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114

What about the VAT impact?

[cbfalcon 825]

Let me tell you guys what would actually happen. As the rhetoric gets louder and the civil war between the far right and far left becomes a foregone conclusion, a 3rd faction would emerge.

 

Group 3 would be the group that isn't so worked up that it believes war is needed. And while Group 3 has no voice right now because squeaky wheels are the ones that get grease, it would have numbers that outweigh the other two factions 50 fold. Group 3 would make it known that you guys can have your war, but it shall be limited to a few particular zones. I'm thinking Kansas and Nebraska right now, but we can discuss this later. If the fighting leaves that zone and group 3 suffers casualties, then Group 3's army will be forced to defend itself. But play by Group 3's rules, and Groups 1 and 2 can fight for the next 20 years if they'd like.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

Let me tell you guys what would actually happen. As the rhetoric gets louder and the civil war between the far right and far left becomes a foregone conclusion, a 3rd faction would emerge.

 

Group 3 would be the group that isn't so worked up that it believes war is needed. And while Group 3 has no voice right now because squeaky wheels are the ones that get grease, it would have numbers that outweigh the other two factions 50 fold. Group 3 would make it known that you guys can have your war, but it shall be limited to a few particular zones. I'm thinking Kansas and Nebraska right now, but we can discuss this later. If the fighting leaves that zone and group 3 suffers casualties, then Group 3's army will be forced to defend itself. But play by Group 3's rules, and Groups 1 and 2 can fight for the next 20 years if they'd like.

It's really just going to be Group 1--the angry, disaffected conservatives--trying to fight everybody in Group 3 only Group 3 ain't interested. There is no Group 2

[Mungwater 597]

I'll be part of group 2, the indifferents

 

I'll make myself a colonel

 

[parrot 789]

I want to be on the south's side! I like the south better. Better weather, nice beaches, I love seafood, plus bunny lives in the south. I wanna party with that guy before the shitt hits the fan.

 

You're looking at it wrong. After we beat the South, we'll have all that stuff without it being overrun with a bunch of dumb-ass southerners. Except Bunny. He's allowed to stay. He's going to be in charge of entertainment.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,465]

 

You're looking at it wrong. After we beat the South, we'll have all that stuff without it being overrun with a bunch of dumb-ass southerners. Except Bunny. He's allowed to stay. He's going to be in charge of entertainment.

 

 

[crackattack 520]

 

You're looking at it wrong. After we beat the South, we'll have all that stuff without it being overrun with a bunch of dumb-ass southerners. Except Bunny. He's allowed to stay. He's going to be in charge of entertainment.

Not if I die first. If I'm fighting, I'm fighting for the south. I wouldn't be much help anyway, but if I've got a shot at being killed, it's going to be in the south. Bunny, can you start building a beer bunker?