Do you believe in an Afterlife?

[Frank M 181]

I hope I'm wrong and there is some wonderful eternal reward after I check out. The difference for me is that the thought that there isn't doesn't bother me or send me sifting through the myriad religions of the world seeking reassurance that I'm something more than a creature on a spinning rock in space.

[fandandy 3,314]

I think it has a LOT to do with how you were raised. If you are force fed heaven and hell since birth it's a hard thing to just stop believing because maybe it doesn't make sense.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I think it has a LOT to do with how you were raised. If you are force fed heaven and hell since birth it's a hard thing to just stop believing because maybe it doesn't make sense.

Yeah. It sucks to see people force sh!t on their kids.

 

My parents took us to church every week until we were teenagers. If we wanted to do summer camp church and youth group and all that, we did.

 

Once we were old enough, the told us we had cars and could go if we want, don't if we don't. They took us all those years because they thought we should be exposed, and make our own decision. They have not been since I was 18. Actually wait,

That's not true. Even now I go with my mother to midnight service on Christmas Eve if I am in town. Just to make her happy. She knows I think it's drivel.

[kilroy69 1,273]

I went to many denominations as a child growing up. Hellfire southern baptists, Methodist(who rebuked my mother in the name of jesus christ for reading tarot cards in her own home) Catholic(who convince themselves it is ok to be a horrible person as long as you confess once a week) The worst I went to was Pentacostal. Theya are straight up retards that believe you can "fall out in the spirit" and talk in tongues. They wander around church making sounds that only they and god can understand. Its like a bro language for you and god. lunatics.

[TD Ryan2 316]

I went to many denominations as a child growing up. Hellfire southern baptists, Methodist(who rebuked my mother in the name of jesus christ for reading tarot cards in her own home) Catholic(who convince themselves it is ok to be a horrible person as long as you confess once a week) The worst I went to was Pentacostal. Theya are straight up retards that believe you can "fall out in the spirit" and talk in tongues. They wander around church making sounds that only they and god can understand. Its like a bro language for you and god. ###### lunatics.

 

I can understand your disdain for religion then. I'd probably be angry, critical, and distrustful too. There's no question that religion can be twisted to bring out the worst in people.

 

But for some, religion can have a positive influence... instilling compassion and a sense of community, removing self-centeredness, and helping people to be grateful for the good things in their lives even if those are few.

 

So because of that, I'm not ready to make any blanket statements about religion. Each individual makes of it what they want to or what their particular experience with it allows them to.

 

The one thing I will agree with about religion (and most everything) is that moderation is the key - becoming to caught up or over-zealous just isn't a healthy approach to anything.

[hoytdwow 202]

 

Each individual makes of it what they want to or what their particular experience with it allows them to.

 

this is the key, and why it's so baffling when atheists piss and moan about the purity or rigor of believers' beliefs.

[Mookz 1,388]

 

that, for me, is the tipping point for beginning to think that there could be something more... forget religion... just from a logical and analytical viewpoint, trying to comprehend "nothingness"... or no longer "being" makes my brain hurt... what happens when you die... nothing? At that point, you're "making it up" just as much as someone else is making up angels and harps...

 

Let's say there's no soul and no afterlife, and the way we experience consciousness is simply a result of chemical reactions taking place in our brains, and it all came about completely randomly. Since we now know there is something rather than nothing, and since time is infinite, wouldn't those specific random events eventually have to happen again? And not just once, but an infinite number of times. And since we don't experience time while we're "dead" (i.e. we have no recollection of the time that passed before we were born), we'll "wake up" into these new (same) consciousnesses immediately, every time we die. What I'm saying is that at the very least, we will have eternal consciousness from our own perspective.

[Artista 460]

It's just such a scary concept that we will think of any excuse to convince ourselves there's more. Some people think every person is some special snowflake with their own private condo in heaven when really we are just grains of sand in the desert that is the universe. It is pretty freaky to know that it will just turn off one day.

It's like the glass is half full/empty concept. We really don't know, do we. So why not think there is something better after this life than being a grain in the universe? Life is easier if you think positive. And if it turns out in the end you are a grain in the universe, so be it. But why not think it's just as possible that there is something better/more than just being gone forever? And no, I'm far from religious though I am into Zen/spirituality.

[TD Ryan2 316]

 

Let's say there's no soul and no afterlife, and the way we experience consciousness is simply a result of chemical reactions taking place in our brains, and it all came about completely randomly. Since we now know there is something rather than nothing, and since time is infinite, wouldn't those specific random events eventually have to happen again? And not just once, but an infinite number of times. And since we don't experience time while we're "dead" (i.e. we have no recollection of the time that passed before we were born), we'll "wake up" into these new (same) consciousnesses immediately, every time we die. What I'm saying is that at the very least, we will have eternal consciousness from our own perspective.

 

I read that twice... just to get it to sink in... it's an interesting thought.

[penultimatestraw 473]

It's like the glass is half full/empty concept. We really don't know, do we. So why not think there is something better after this life than being a grain in the universe? Life is easier if you think positive. And if it turns out in the end you are a grain in the universe, so be it. But why not think it's just as possible that there is something better/more than just being gone forever? And no, I'm far from religious though I am into Zen/spirituality.

There's nothing wrong with believing, but atheists can think just as positively as their pious peers. Hell, I've been called a Pollyanna on this very bored.

 

Pascal's wager reasons that you are betting your (after)life on religious belief, or lack thereof, so everyone ought to choose God on the slim chance she actually exists. The problem with this logic is to truly lead a devout life, one invests a lot of time and effort. If it turns out to be bunk, then you've probably wasted time you could have spent doing things you actually enjoy. If the atheists are right, that time is far more precious.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

Let's say there's no soul and no afterlife, and the way we experience consciousness is simply a result of chemical reactions taking place in our brains, and it all came about completely randomly. Since we now know there is something rather than nothing, and since time is infinite, wouldn't those specific random events eventually have to happen again? And not just once, but an infinite number of times. And since we don't experience time while we're "dead" (i.e. we have no recollection of the time that passed before we were born), we'll "wake up" into these new (same) consciousnesses immediately, every time we die. What I'm saying is that at the very least, we will have eternal consciousness from our own perspective.

Funny, I just thought the exact same thing.

 

What are you wearing?

[penultimatestraw 473]

The one thing I will agree with about religion (and most everything) is that moderation is the key - becoming to caught up or over-zealous just isn't a healthy approach to anything.

I dunno. If religion is correct, I think that one should definitely practice it with zeal. Why half-ass it with eternal life on the line?

[Artista 460]

There's nothing wrong with believing, but atheists can think just as positively as their pious peers. Hell, I've been called a Pollyanna on this very bored.

 

Pascal's wager reasons that you are betting your (after)life on religious belief, or lack thereof, so everyone ought to choose God on the slim chance she actually exists. The problem with this logic is to truly lead a devout life, one invests a lot of time and effort. If it turns out to be bunk, then you've probably wasted time you could have spent doing things you actually enjoy. If the atheists are right, that time is far more precious.

I enjoy my life without editing it, well not right now, but before and hopefully after this fight. Like I said, I'm not at all religious. But I do believe there is a higher being than us that we just happen to call God in every language. I think you can think positive that there is more than being dust in the wind when you die without being of a religion. I don't know if my chemo brain is making sense.

[Voltaire 5,528]

this is the key, and why it's so baffling when atheists piss and moan about the purity or rigor of believers' beliefs.

What do you mean? Somehow your point escapes me.

 

Like I think Westboro Baptists are stupid and annoying while Methodists are neither stupid nor annoying.

 

As for purity of beliefs, it's not for me to judge. That's for them to figure out and I disqualify myself from keeping score. Rigor is another story. The rigor of being Westboro Baptist is all consuming and has to be over about a thousand times greater than that of Methodist.

[Voltaire 5,528]

I enjoy my life without editing it, well not right now, but before and hopefully after this fight. Like I said, I'm not at all religious. But I do believe there is a higher being than us that we just happen to call God in every language. I think you can think positive that there is more than being dust in the wind when you die without being of a religion. I don't know if my chemo brain is making sense.

I'm neither spiritual nor religious. I can't do spirituality. But I were curious about spirtuality, I'd go check out the Bhuddists. I find their beliefs interesting but -again- only from an academic perspective. I'd rather read an article on it or watch than actually partipate or try to get into it. When I put cash in the collection basket, it's out of respect as a tourist who's enjoying the scenery and performance and doesn't want to be a freeloader, not as a devotee. I'm just paying for the show.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

this is the key, and why it's so baffling when atheists piss and moan about the purity or rigor of believers' beliefs.

I just don't understand is all. I meet "fervent Christians" all the time that know nothing of the bible. Zero.

 

If I believed a book was the living word of God, and the key to my eternal salvation, I would know that sh!t by heart. Hell, I've read it twice and I think it's just a book of ancient literature.

[Hardcore troubadour 16,042]

CHRIST-ianity. If you're a Christian, Jesus Christ is the beginning and the end. The bible was "written" 400 years AD by various people with agendas, and changed over and over. Most of it is B.S., like Hollywood jazzing up a script so more people will buy in.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

CHRIST-ianity. If you're a Christian, Jesus Christ is the beginning and the end. The bible was "written" 400 years AD by various people with agendas, and changed over and over. Most of it is B.S., like Hollywood jazzing up a script so more people will buy in.

Ok... You just admitted that the bible is a dubious source at best.

 

But yet it is the only place "Christs message" comes from.

 

So a Christian following Christ must rely on the bible.

[parrot 790]

It's like the glass is half full/empty concept. We really don't know, do we. So why not think there is something better after this life than being a grain in the universe? Life is easier if you think positive. And if it turns out in the end you are a grain in the universe, so be it. But why not think it's just as possible that there is something better/more than just being gone forever? And no, I'm far from religious though I am into Zen/spirituality.

 

I think there's a lot of positivity to atheism. It teaches "this is all there is so you better make the most of it." We're not playing for overtime.

[MDC 8,100]

Ok... You just admitted that the bible is a dubious source at best.

 

But yet it is the only place "Christs message" comes from.

 

So a Christian following Christ must rely on the bible.

All sane Christians like all sane Muslims pick and chose the parts of their fairy take book that aren't violent or crazy and pretend like the rest is allegory or parable.

[Bert 1,129]

If you are logical and understand risk analysis you should believe in god/afterlife.

[Frank M 181]

If you are logical and understand risk analysis you should believe in god/afterlife.

 

Please explain.

[Bert 1,129]

 

 

 

Please explain.

Assuming the whole, "those who believe and are good go to heaven and those who do not believe go to hell for eternity" thing.

 

If you believe and are wrong you wasted a life time believing something that wasn't true, let’s say 75 years.

 

If you do not believe and are wrong you will suffer forever in hell, an infinite number of years.

 

75 vs infinity

 

If you are hedging there is no way you would ever not believe, no matter how remote the chance of being correct, because the down side is too large.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Assuming the whole, "those who believe and are good go to heaven and those who do not believe go to hell for eternity" thing.

 

If you believe and are wrong you wasted a life time believing something that wasn't true, lets say 75 years.

 

If you do not believe and are wrong you will suffer forever in hell, an infinite number of years.

 

75 vs infinity

 

If you are hedging there is no way you would ever not believe, no matter how remote the chance of being correct, because the down side is too large.

Pascal's wager.

 

It assumes two things.

 

1. That belief is a choice. That you can make yourself believe for advantage.

 

2. That God is a moron and will accept your insincere gain motivated belief.

 

In short, that dog don't hunt.

[Bert 1,129]

Pascal's wager.

 

It assumes two things.

 

1. That belief is a choice. That you can make yourself believe for advantage.

 

2. That God is a moron and will accept your insincere gain motivated belief.

 

In short, that dog don't hunt.

Same hedging principal applies. Risk analysis tells you it is better to try than to not try given the down side.

[vuduchile 1,947]

Assuming the whole, "those who believe and are good go to heaven and those who do not believe go to hell for eternity" thing.

 

If you believe and are wrong you wasted a life time believing something that wasn't true, let’s say 75 years.

 

If you do not believe and are wrong you will suffer forever in hell, an infinite number of years.

 

75 vs infinity

 

If you are hedging there is no way you would ever not believe, no matter how remote the chance of being correct, because the down side is too large.

Spoken like a true odds maker. I like it.

 

On the subject of wasting your life, I can see that being a potential issue for those who completely dedicate themselves to their religion above and beyond everything else.

 

While this is clearly the stated goal of many religions, it's not really practiced by the masses. From my viewpoint, even those who go to church regularly don't devote much of their lives to it.

 

For example, I go to church almost every Sunday. Most of those times, I'm playing guitar in the band.

 

I also take a pretty active role in the church compared to most people in the congregation.

 

Let's say I'm there for the service 45 hours per year, plus another 45 rehearsing.

 

I'm also a trustee, so I meet for an hour every month to discuss the needs of the church, the building, etc. That's 12 more hours.

 

I would guess I spend another 50 hours per year doing charity work for the church. 152 hours per year total.

 

When I'm away from church, I'm not running around the community evangelizing, or kneeling before god to pray over every aspect of my life. I'm spending time with my wife and kids, playing sports, watching sports, coaching sports, going to concerts, movies, museums, camping, fishing, hiking, working, and committing various and often pleasurable sins.

 

I enjoy playing guitar and doing charity work in my community, so I don't consider any of that time wasted on any level. So put those 140 hrs. into time NOT WASTED.

 

The only part of being involved in the church I don't enjoy is being a trustee. I suppose I could consider that 12 hours per year wasted.

 

I probably waste 2 hours every week day posting and reading posts here. That's 500 hrs. per year talking and listening to you rotten focks.

 

This place is a bigger cult than my church.

[Frank M 181]

Assuming the whole, "those who believe and are good go to heaven and those who do not believe go to hell for eternity" thing.

 

If you believe and are wrong you wasted a life time believing something that wasn't true, lets say 75 years.

 

If you do not believe and are wrong you will suffer forever in hell, an infinite number of years.

 

75 vs infinity

 

If you are hedging there is no way you would ever not believe, no matter how remote the chance of being correct, because the down side is too large.

Please tell me that risk analysis is not something you do for a living.

[Frank M 181]

So, assuming the whole "garlic wards off vampires" thing.

 

If you believe and are wrong, you will have spent your life repelling normal folks because you wore a garlic wreath around your neck at all times.

 

If you do not believe and are wrong, you could get bitten by a vampire and soend eternity as one of them.

 

A lifetime turning off normal people vs an eternity as one of the undead.

 

Why would you not wear a garlic wreath at all times, or at the very least, carry a garlic bulb in your pocket?

[Bert 1,129]

So, assuming the whole "garlic wards off vampires" thing.

 

If you believe and are wrong, you will have spent your life repelling normal folks because you wore a garlic wreath around your neck at all times.

 

If you do not believe and are wrong, you could get bitten by a vampire and soend eternity as one of them.

 

A lifetime turning off normal people vs an eternity as one of the undead.

 

Why would you not wear a garlic wreath at all times, or at the very least, carry a garlic bulb in your pocket?

I suppose that would work. But no one has to know you believe unlike your vampire garlic example. Also, vampires can be killed by crosses and silver bullets. I would go with carrying a cross in my pocket. You have no other options with the believing situation.

 

 

Please tell me that risk analysis is not something you do for a living.

no i don't but please explain how the numbers are wrong?

[Frank M 181]

I suppose that would work. But no one has to know you believe unlike your vampire garlic example. Also, vampires can be killed by crosses and silver bullets. I would go with carrying a cross in my pocket. You have no other options with the believing situation.

 

 

no i don't but please explain how the numbers are wrong?

 

 

Your initial "assumption" is one belief out of many. You're saying that it's either nothing or heaven/hell without taking into account the thousands of other beliefs people have of the afterlife.

 

What if the original assumption was that only those who kill the infidel receive a reward in the afterlife? Would it then be logical that we should all strap on a bomb vest and blow up nonbelievers?

 

And, while I'm not a risk analyst either, I'm pretty sure you can't extrapolate it to things that can't be quantified, like the odds of there being an afterlife.

[tanatastic 2,062]

I suppose that would work. But no one has to know you believe unlike your vampire garlic example. Also, vampires can be killed by crosses and silver bullets. I would go with carrying a cross in my pocket. You have no other options with the believing situation.

 

 

no i don't but please explain how the numbers are wrong?

Its just silly because you are quanitifying the eternity as a value when in fact it has no value. The 75 years have value, those are real, in real life. Like the vampire argument, I could make up a million silly examples of why arent you doing this if it will give you infinite years vs 75? Whos to say allah is fake and jesus is real? Why not kill infidels just to be safe if thats what allah requires? Why not do alot of things? I get what you were trying to say but the infinite years is not a realistic bargaining chip vs the 75 real life years. To me at least.

[parrot 790]

But no one has to know you believe unlike your vampire garlic example.

 

Many religions demand proselytizing as part of the deal don't they? What if that's the one key and you're not doing it? Can you really afford that when the risk is eternal damnation?

[Bert 1,129]

 

Many religions demand proselytizing as part of the deal don't they? What if that's the one key and you're not doing it? Can you really afford that when the risk is eternal damnation?

Don't you know anything about organized crime religion you simply switch to one that doesn't make you testify.

[tanatastic 2,062]

organized crime religion

Now thats my kinda snark. Well done.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Pascal's wager.

 

It assumes two things.

 

1. That belief is a choice. That you can make yourself believe for advantage.

 

2. That God is a moron and will accept your insincere gain motivated belief.

 

In short, that dog don't hunt.

This. Plus, there are far too many religions available in which to feign belief. Better choose the one with the most gullible god(s).

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

I think there's a lot of positivity to atheism. It teaches "this is all there is so you better make the most of it." We're not playing for overtime.

Absolutely. Life is pretty meaningless if afterlife is eternal.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

I think there's a lot of positivity to atheism. It teaches "this is all there is so you better make the most of it." We're not playing for overtime.

I agree. I do what is right because I think it is right, not because a boogeyman told me to. It requires thought. And you may have to amend your moral code as you go through life.

 

You know the phrase o hate? "God fearing." If he loves me, why should I fear him? Why is that a relationship I would want?

[tanatastic 2,062]

You know the phrase o hate? "God fearing." If he loves me, why should I fear him? Why is that a relationship I would want?

Exactly, that would be like having a second wife.

[Voltaire 5,528]

Please tell me that risk analysis is not something you do for a living.

I think lately it's been coming naturally for people to do this in his line to do daily risk analysis. Bert works in the oil industry and is experiencing $38 barrell prices.

[Voltaire 5,528]

Assuming the whole, "those who believe and are good go to heaven and those who do not believe go to hell for eternity" thing.

 

If you believe and are wrong you wasted a life time believing something that wasn't true, let’s say 75 years.

 

If you do not believe and are wrong you will suffer forever in hell, an infinite number of years.

 

75 vs infinity

 

If you are hedging there is no way you would ever not believe, no matter how remote the chance of being correct, because the down side is too large.

That's why I donate money to the Mormons, Bhuddists, Muslims (both Shia and Sunni), Scientologists, Sikhs, Zoroasterans, Jewish temples, Hindus, and all the Christian denominations within driving distance. I want to play it safe just like you say.