Socialism

[drobeski 3,061]

Is there any history of it working ? Improving a country ?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Is there any history of it working ? Improving a country ?

Germany, until recently.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

Works ok if no one is allowed in, or out. And by ok, I mean functions at a low level. Sort of a retard government.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Works ok if no one is allowed in, or out. And by ok, I mean functions at a low level. Sort of a retard government.

Germany was doing great until this idiot Merkel decided to play wet nurse to these backwards animals.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

Germany was doing great until this idiot Merkel decided to play wet nurse to these backwards animals.

What did I say about no one in?

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Seems to work out pretty well in much of Europe. The northern half especially.

 

Living here in China, I try to figure out how communism is working here. And please understand, I am talking about communism, an economic theory, not totalitarianism, a political one.

 

I would say there are some definite positives to it. The entire financial sector is controlled by the state, so you don't get the massive fraud and boom and bust things like you do back home.

 

One of the weirdest things is how they Develop real estate here. In America of course, someone has to put their own money and ass on the line. So you better be damn sure if you build a shopping center, that you have tennanta ready to move in.

 

Here, the government just orders things built, and it happens. They build things years in advance of them actually being needed in some cases. So you see shopping centers and office towers and condo towers that are virtually empty.

 

There is a shopping center near my apartment with signs for Burger King and addidas among other stores. These are banner signs above the door just like back home.

 

So I wanted a new pair of sneakers. Unfortunately, my feet exceed the sizes they carry here. So I thought I'd check out addidas and see if maybe they had larger sizes. Figured I'd have a burger for lunch while I was over there.

 

When I got there, I realized the shops were vacant. They just put signs of random companies up to show what COULD be, rather than what is.

 

It's like any other "ism" I think. Too much is a bad thing. And that includes capitalism.

[edjr 6,898]

War on Drugs is working well. Cheap too.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,543]

socialism is great, if you as a country desire to live as a 2nd world nation

[Voltaire 5,485]

The Euros seem to be happy with it; they keep voting for Socialist parties.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

I would say there are some definite positives to it. The entire financial sector is controlled by the state, so you don't get the massive fraud and boom and bust things like you do back home.

 

 

There is no one on the planet who could give an honest assessment of China's finances. But you can be sure that fraud is rampant in a country with a state controlled media.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Seems to work out pretty well in much of Europe. The northern half especially.

 

Living here in China, I try to figure out how communism is working here. And please understand, I am talking about communism, an economic theory, not totalitarianism, a political one.

 

I would say there are some definite positives to it. The entire financial sector is controlled by the state, so you don't get the massive fraud and boom and bust things like you do back home.

 

One of the weirdest things is how they Develop real estate here. In America of course, someone has to put their own money and ass on the line. So you better be damn sure if you build a shopping center, that you have tennanta ready to move in.

 

Here, the government just orders things built, and it happens. They build things years in advance of them actually being needed in some cases. So you see shopping centers and office towers and condo towers that are virtually empty.

 

There is a shopping center near my apartment with signs for Burger King and addidas among other stores. These are banner signs above the door just like back home.

 

So I wanted a new pair of sneakers. Unfortunately, my feet exceed the sizes they carry here. So I thought I'd check out addidas and see if maybe they had larger sizes. Figured I'd have a burger for lunch while I was over there.

 

When I got there, I realized the shops were vacant. They just put signs of random companies up to show what COULD be, rather than what is.

 

It's like any other "ism" I think. Too much is a bad thing. And that includes capitalism.

I have no idea about life in China, but the comments about socialism are spot on - many of the countries with the highest standards of living in the world, with residents that seem content with their quality of life, are socialist.

[penultimatestraw 473]

socialism is great, if you as a country desire to live as a 2nd world nation

This is silly. Though hardly anywhere is purely socialist, just as there are arguably no 100% capitalist countries.

[Voltaire 5,485]

I have no idea about life in China, but the comments about socialism are spot on - many of the countries with the highest standards of living in the world, with residents that seem content with their quality of life, are socialist.

China isn't socialist. They aren't redistributing wealth -well- unless that means taking it from a less politically source and giving it to a more connected one. It's a weird top down crony capitalism mutation from their Communist origins. But any of the safety net social programs that western governments have don't exist in China: public health care, social security, welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc.

 

China doesn't have a plague of lazy welfare leeches. If you don't work, you don't eat.

[MDC 7,881]

I think drobs is using socialist for any country with right government controls on the economy, high taxes and a large social safety net?

[penultimatestraw 473]

China isn't socialist. They aren't redistributing wealth -well- unless that means taking it from a less politically source and giving it to a more connected one. It's a weird top down crony capitalism mutation from their Communist origins. But any of the safety net social programs that western governments have don't exist in China: health care, social security, welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc.

 

China doesn't have a plague of lazy welfare leeches. If you don't work, you don't eat.

I wasn't suggesting China is socialist. Nor do I include it in a list of desirable places to live.

[Voltaire 5,485]

I wasn't suggesting China is socialist. Nor do I include it in a list of desirable places to live.

Undesirable for environmental and human rights issues. Until recently, the economics had been strong. That's even with the vampires at the top draining the country. Of course, in a country with leaders not being held accountable to the population, they'll prioritize putting money in their own pocket over the public interest but that happens to a lesser extent everywhere.

 

Chinese leadership isn't totally tin eared on public pressure. Only 90-95% tin eared. Really egregious abuses that embarrass the Party get reined in.

[Mungwater 601]

I had a job offer in the netherlands after the army, they had a ton of social welfare programs. Seemed okay, but I would have been considered a European hire, so I would have to pay the taxes and wouldn't have the protection of being an expatriate. The HR lady told me that they have something crazy like 65% tax. So I think it sounds good for programs to help folks, it's just paying for it is something Americans don't seem to want to do.

[KSB2424 3,173]

It's fine for some countries. Those like Switzerland.

 

But guess who defeated the Nazi's? Well it wasn't Switzerland.

 

The world needs leaders too.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

It's fine for some countries. Those like Switzerland.

 

But guess who defeated the Nazi's? Well it wasn't Switzerland.

 

The world needs leaders too.

Russia disagrees with you on who defeated the Nazis.

[drobeski 3,061]

Germany, until recently.

mulsims can fock up any civilized government

[KSB2424 3,173]

I think drobs is using socialist for any country with right government controls on the economy, high taxes and a large social safety net?

 

Not sure what Drobeski is getting at really. I think most right leaning folks are perfectly fine with certain controls - regulations. They are fine with taxes and most social safety nets for the truly poor and elderly. Any civilized nation needs that.

 

But they see it (Gov't) getting bigger and bigger, the nets larger and larger.....

 

This is America, right? Some see us losing our identity. Like it or not America has always been a little bit different. We give up certain things to gain more freedoms. For the better and for the worse.

 

Some people simply think we're losing that. A little bit each and every bill, or new tax or new law.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,331]

I just want jobs that pay decent wages. If a president can give that, and not attack unions, i am in most likely. Republicans, unfortunately, promise jobs, but they want non union company friendly jobs so that they can have more control over employees.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

There is no one on the planet who could give an honest assessment of China's finances. But you can be sure that fraud is rampant in a country with a state controlled media.

 

I wasn't very clear, What I meant is you don't see the WorldCom, Enron, Bears-Stearns, wall street securities type fraud,

 

Graft and corruption, sure,

 

You don't see entire sectors of the economy suddently collapse like the airline and auto industry does with regularity in America either.

 

China isn't socialist. They aren't redistributing wealth -well- unless that means taking it from a less politically source and giving it to a more connected one. It's a weird top down crony capitalism mutation from their Communist origins. But any of the safety net social programs that western governments have don't exist in China: public health care, social security, welfare, unemployment, food stamps, etc.

 

China doesn't have a plague of lazy welfare leeches. If you don't work, you don't eat.

 

I won't speak for your part of the Middle Kingdom, but there is plenty of welfare here. They just make it look like work.

 

Every store you go into in Zhengzhou is massively overstaffed. You will see five salesgirls in a store 50 sqare feet. Doing absolutely nothing.

 

You will see the security guards at every apartment building and school in the city. Doing nothing. Sitting in the guard shed playing cards and smoking.

 

You will see the lady whos only job is to stand between the bike lane and the car lane and point her flag at the bike lane and whistle at me while I give her the finger.

 

The lady who stands in the same spot all day long "sweeping" the filthy street with a tree branch.

 

There are many more examples. You are right, they don't just give the poor money. They make them show up somewhere and pretend to be useful, even if they are not.

 

And of course, the real safety net in China is good old Confucian filial piety. Why worry when you can sponge off generations of your own family?

 

 

It's fine for some countries. Those like Switzerland.

 

But guess who defeated the Nazi's? Well it wasn't Switzerland.

 

The world needs leaders too.

 

Socialism works best in small, ethnically homogenous, relatively prosperous countries. That is why it works well in Northern Europe.

 

They don't have a massive underclass wandering around having 14 focking kids they can't support and smoking weed all day while disabled from carpal tunnel syndrome.

[tanatastic 2,062]

Whatever ism we use in America is the bad one. Greedism? Instead of this ridiculous billion dollar lottery, just give every tax payer 100k. I'm bad at math so I have no idea how much that is but I'm sure we spend that amount on (insert frivolous foreign aid nonsense here). Then again that would just lead to poor black people who don't pay taxes robbing and killing people for their huge payday.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Whatever ism we use in America is the bad one. Greedism? Instead of this ridiculous billion dollar lottery, just give every tax payer 100k. I'm bad at math so I have no idea how much that is but I'm sure we spend that amount on (insert frivolous foreign aid nonsense here). Then again that would just lead to poor black people who don't pay taxes robbing and killing people for their huge payday.

 

Well, we have an early leader for most nonsensical post of the year...

[tanatastic 2,062]

Well, we have an early leader for most nonsensical post of the year...

Ok that's some shady math. That's too much money for 318mil people lol. That's like Eleventy trillion or something. Took a while to count that on my fingers.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,543]

This is silly. Though hardly anywhere is purely socialist, just as there are arguably no 100% capitalist countries.

 

what I am getting at is yes it will work in smaller countries who just fly under the radar, but who is always there to bail their asses out when needed, the good ole USA.

 

most European countries lack far behind (save for Germany) in technology and science, and have no reason to thrive as a nation to improve in those industries, cause major capitalistic countries will continue to push the envelope for them

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

what I am getting at is yes it will work in smaller countries who just fly under the radar, but who is always there to bail their asses out when needed, the good ole USA.

 

most European countries lack far behind (save for Germany) in technology and science, and have no reason to thrive as a nation to improve in those industries, cause major capitalistic countries will continue to push the envelope for them

But that's not nearly the same thing as being a second world country.

 

Of course the US has the best military in the world. And capitalism is great at innovation. But those are the only two areas where upper echelon socialist countries lag behind. Meanwhile the US has more violent crime and poverty, worse healthcare and a fixation on material wealth which doesn't promote happiness.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

But that's not nearly the same thing as being a second world country.

 

Of course the US has the best military in the world. And capitalism is great at innovation. But those are the only two areas where upper echelon socialist countries lag behind. Meanwhile the US has more violent crime and poverty, worse healthcare and a fixation on material wealth which doesn't promote happiness.

And we piss away a massive portion of our wealth on a military that does us little to no good.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

And we piss away a massive portion of our wealth on a military that does us little to no good.

The military is the single biggest employer of the unemployable. That alone is a huge benefit to all of us. Same is true for every significant Army in the world.

[hoytdwow 202]

 

 

most European countries lack far behind (save for Germany) in technology and science, and have no reason to thrive as a nation to improve in those industries, cause major capitalistic countries will continue to push the envelope for them

This is real dumb. You and KSB are on this kick for some reason.

 

Top 10 countries for science according to Scientific American includes 6 European countries.

Top science and math test scores are all Asia or Europe.

Germany and Scandinavia are the top industrial designers and have been forever

Best cars? Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, Ferrari, Range Rover etc etc etc?

 

A Brit invented the WWW

The largest particle accelerator in the world is on the Swiss/French border.

 

Just dumb

[hoytdwow 202]

Also, point of order, but European countries are not socialist, they are democratic-socialist (as Bernie Sanders is). There's a big difference. China is socialist.

[KSB2424 3,173]

This is real dumb. You and KSB are on this kick for some reason.

 

Top 10 countries for science according to Scientific American includes 6 European countries.

Top science and math test scores are all Asia or Europe.

Germany and Scandinavia are the top industrial designers and have been forever

Best cars? Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, Ferrari, Range Rover etc etc etc?

 

A Brit invented the WWW

The largest particle accelerator in the world is on the Swiss/French border.

 

Just dumb

 

Nobody gives a shat about who has the best cars. I'm talking bigger picture. Going to the focking moon. Leading the world in groundbreaking R&D surrounding medicine, vaccines and eradicating stuff like Ebola. Defeating the Nazi's because we have the baddest shat and the balls to do so.

 

The French invented great culinary items too, but I'm not talking about stuff like that. HTH

 

I'm sure if Sweden had a huge immigration issue and a more massive population where crime was higher they wouldn't have freaking mace outlawed.

 

Switzerland, Sweden, that's all nice and all. Good for them. But sitting on the world sideline and being average isn't for everybody.

 

The world needs leaders too.

[hoytdwow 202]

 

Nobody gives a shat about who has the best cars. I'm talking bigger picture. Going to the focking moon. Leading the world in groundbreaking R&D surrounding medicine, vaccines and eradicating stuff like Ebola. Defeating the Nazi's because we have the baddest shat and the balls to do so.

 

The French invented great culinary items too, but I'm not talking about stuff like that. HTH

 

I'm sure if Sweden had a huge immigration issue and a more massive population where crime was higher they wouldn't have freaking mace outlawed.

 

Switzerland, Sweden, that's all nice and all. Good for them. But sitting on the world sideline and being average isn't for everybody.

 

The world needs leaders too.

The rocketry that informed the space program was invented by a German, and Russians made the earliest advances in space flight

The ebola virus was created by Canadians

WWII would have been over in 1940 if it weren't for Britain ...

fock, there would be no America without France

[BLS 314]

 

Well, we have an early leader for most nonsensical post of the year...

 

He's always posting douchebaggery. Whatever sounds antagonistic.

[BLS 314]

I'm amazed honestly.

 

I grew up in a time where supporting Communism would get you hated by every person around.

Now people are openly advocating for Socialism, which is just the good part, before you get Communism.

 

Tytler was right.

 

“From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

[Mike Honcho 5,430]

 

Nobody gives a shat about who has the best cars. I'm talking bigger picture. Going to the focking moon. Leading the world in groundbreaking R&D surrounding medicine, vaccines and eradicating stuff like Ebola. Defeating the Nazi's because we have the baddest shat and the balls to do so.

 

The French invented great culinary items too, but I'm not talking about stuff like that. HTH

 

I'm sure if Sweden had a huge immigration issue and a more massive population where crime was higher they wouldn't have freaking mace outlawed.

 

Switzerland, Sweden, that's all nice and all. Good for them. But sitting on the world sideline and being average isn't for everybody.

 

The world needs leaders too.

 

USA! USA! USA!

[vuduchile 1,947]

Switzerland seems to produce a good quality of life for it's citizens. But, as someone pointed out, they're not pure socialists. By all accounts, their form of democracy is as pure as it gets.

 

Having said that, my wife's friend just got back from a 2 year stint living there with her Swiss bf. He was doing well as an attorney, but she had an extremely difficult time getting traction toward decent employment as a non-citizen. She even learned to speak German before she went.

 

She also found it difficult to make friends there and her bf's family had a hard time warming to her. She says Swiss culture promotes this sort of standoffish behavior.

 

This is only her experience, but I guess other foreigners she met said similar things.

[KSB2424 3,173]

 

USA! USA! USA!

America has all sorts of imperfections. There are all sorts of things that can be better. I simply prefer we try go be better, solve our problems without losing our core identity.

 

America was founded by those leaving other countries to find a better way. We give up certain things to gain more freedoms than most all other countries. I'd hate to lose that, it's part of who we are.

[BiPolarBear 495]

Socialism issue starts at 1:00:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfIhonVoFSg