Carrier to keep 1000 jobs in Indiana

[Sho Nuff 719]

I certainly hope Trump sold those shares now that the company has started making decisions that help Americans and not necessarily their bottom line.

You mean like making all of his own clothes in China?

[BufordT 371]

Sarah Palin Says Trump's Carrier Deal Could Be 'Crony Capitalism'

https://gma.yahoo.com/sarah-palin-says-trumps-carrier-deal-could-crony-003404827--abc-news-topstories.html#

 

I'll give her some credit for criticizing this deal as she's being considered for a cabinet position. The way Trump's been going, he'll still offer the Vet position to her.

[Sho Nuff 719]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/06/he-got-up-there-and-lied-his-a-off-carrier-union-leader-on-trumps-big-deal/?tid=pm_local_pop&utm_term=.cd82ab19b1e8

 

So, its really 730-800 jobs now...

Jones, president of the United Steelworkers 1999, which represents Carrier employees, felt optimistic when Trump announced last week that he’d reached a deal with the factory’s parent company, United Technologies, to preserve 1,100 of the Indianapolis jobs — until the union leader heard from Carrier that only 730 of the production jobs would stay and 550 of his members would lose their livelihoods, after all.

At the Dec. 1 meeting, where Trump was supposed to lay out the details, Jones hoped he would explain himself.

“But he got up there,” Jones said Tuesday, “and, for whatever reason, lied his a-- off.”

 

[MDC 5,892]

Carrier union rep: Trump "Lied his a-- off."

 

Jones, president of the United Steelworkers 1999, which represents Carrier employees, felt optimistic when Trump announced last week that he’d reached a deal with the factory’s parent company, United Technologies, to preserve 1,100 of the Indianapolis jobs — until the union leader heard from Carrier that only 730 of the production jobs would stay and 550 of his members would lose their livelihoods, after all.

 

At the Dec. 1 meeting, where Trump was supposed to lay out the details, Jones hoped he would explain himself.

 

“But he got up there,” Jones said Tuesday, “and, for whatever reason, lied his a-- off.”

 

In front of a crowd of about 150 supervisors, production workers and reporters, Trump praised Carrier and its parent company, United Technologies. "Now they’re keeping — actually the number’s over 1,100 people,” he said, “which is so great.”

 

Jones wondered why the president-elect appeared to be inflating the victory. Trump and Pence, he said, could take credit for rescuing 800 of the Carrier jobs, including non-union positions.

 

In exchange for downsizing its move south of the border, United Technologies would receive $7 million in tax credits from Indiana, to be paid in $700,000 installments each year for a decade. Carrier, meanwhile, agreed to invest $16 million in its Indiana operation. United Technologies still plans to send 700 factory jobs from Huntington, Ind, to Monterrey, Mexico.

 

T.J. Bray, 32, one of the workers who will keep his job, sat in the front row during the Dec. 1 meeting as Trump spoke. A corporate employee had guided him specifically to that seat, he said, so he suspected he might be part of Trump’s remarks.

 

On Carrier's makeshift stage, Trump paraphrased the words of an unnamed Carrier employee who talked to an NBC reporter after the election. Bray was the only Carrier employee who had appeared on television that day. Apparently, he realized, Trump was saying he inspired the deal.

 

“He said something to the effect, ‘No, we’re not leaving, because Donald Trump promised us that we’re not leaving,’ and I never thought I made that promise,” Trump said. “Not with Carrier. I made it for everybody else. I didn’t make it really for Carrier.”

In fact, Trump did make that commitment, and it's on video. "They're going to call me and they are going to say 'Mr. President, Carrier has decided to stay in Indiana,'” Trump had said at the April rally. "One hundred percent -- that's what is going to happen."

 

Last week, though, the president-elect told the Carrier crowd he hadn't meant that literally.

“I was talking about Carrier like all other companies from here on in," Trump said. "Because they made the decision a year and a half ago. But he believed that was — and I could understand it. I actually said — I didn’t make it — when they played that, I said, 'I did make it, but I didn’t mean it quite that way.'”

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/06/he-got-up-there-and-lied-his-a-off-carrier-union-leader-on-trumps-big-deal/?utm_term=.d37f334b97d9

[Baker Boy 1,485]

Tilt, Foam at the Mouth, Tilt, Wet the Bed! Priceless!

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Trump's unwavering lemmings are making me nauseous. It's like they couldn't wait for the a Republican to win office so that they could collectively hold his c0ck in their mouths. Then when it's obvious Trump blatantly lied about it they just shove a little more in the mouth and ask for more.

[mobb_deep 917]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/06/he-got-up-there-and-lied-his-a-off-carrier-union-leader-on-trumps-big-deal/?tid=pm_local_pop&utm_term=.cd82ab19b1e8

 

So, its really 730-800 jobs now...

 

So we get to pay 7 mil in taxes for Carrier to keep 700 jobs in BFE Indiana, and then they hike the price of air conditioners and furnaces 5% as a thank you.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

 

So we get to pay 7 mil in taxes for Carrier to keep 700 jobs in BFE Indiana, and then they hike the price of air conditioners and furnaces 5% as a thank you.

You live in Indiana?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

 

So we get to pay 7 mil in taxes for Carrier to keep 700 jobs in BFE Indiana, and then they hike the price of air conditioners and furnaces 5% as a thank you.

Buy the other one

[Baker Boy 1,485]

So we get to pay 7 mil in taxes for Carrier to keep 700 jobs in BFE Indiana, and then they hike the price of air conditioners and furnaces 5% as a thank you.

 

You really have no clue on how the government and taxes work.

[mobb_deep 917]

You really have no clue on how the government and taxes work.

You haven't had a job since horse and buggy. Shut your old ass up, gramps.

[MDC 5,892]

You haven't had a job since horse and buggy. Shut your old ass up, gramps.

His dad is 67.

[mobb_deep 917]

His dad is 67.

Just another republican feeding off the fed nipple. We have a couple of them here @ FFT.

[Sho Nuff 719]

So...now the union head got attacked by Trump and is getting death threats.

His supporters likely have no problem with it.

[mobb_deep 917]

So...now the union head got attacked by Trump and is getting death threats.

His supporters likely have no problem with it.

 

I can't wait until Trump heals America and brings us all together again. It's gonna be so yuge and great.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Union drives jobs away. Trump saves them. Union chief blasts Trump. Liberals side with Union.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Union drives jobs away. Trump saves them. Union chief blasts Trump. Liberals side with Union.

The union drove those jobs away?

[Sho Nuff 719]

Also Timmy...Pence did the work...Trump took credit and lied about it. Union boss called him in the lies and is now receiving death threats. Hack like you defends the liar.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Union drives jobs away. Trump saves them. Union chief blasts Trump. Liberals side with Union.

Respectable wages and benefits drive jobs away? Oh that's right middle class Republicans don't care if workers barely make a living wage as long as it's not them.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

Respectable wages and benefits drive jobs away? Oh that's right middle class Republicans don't care if workers barely make a living wage as long as it's not them.

Good wages are exactly what drives business's away. That and no regulations in these third world shitholes they go to. Our whole country is undermined by greedy bastards chasing the dollar. They could care less what happens to their country. The reality, as sad as it is, is that labors biggest leverage point is, and always has been, its willingness to withhold its services (strike). Automation and cheap labor have pretty much elimnated that in the manufacturing sector. It's incumbent on unions that rep those workers to protect the jobs first and foremost. A union is no good without a job.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Good wages are exactly what drives business's away. That and no regulations in these third world shitholes they go to. Our whole country is undermined by greedy bastards chasing the dollar. They could care less what happens to their country. The reality, as sad as it is, is that labors biggest leverage point is, and always has been, its willingness to withhold its services (strike). Automation and cheap labor have pretty much elimnated that in the manufacturing sector. It's incumbent on unions that rep those workers to protect the jobs first and foremost. A union is no good without a job.

Wages are huge part of the equation but a lack of a productive and reliable workforce is also major reason why companies move their mfg out of the US.

 

Add in the difficulty of dealing with ineffective, useless labor unions and it's easy to see how the US has mostly itself to blame for the massive sucking sound Mr. Perot warned us about.

 

Add tarriffs, continue to offer incentives and kill the unions works for me.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

Wages are huge part of the equation but a lack of a productive and reliable workforce is also major reason why companies move their mfg out of the US.

 

Add in the difficulty of dealing with ineffective, useless labor unions and it's easy to see how the US has mostly itself to blame for the massive sucking sound Mr. Perot warned us about.

 

Add tarriffs, continue to offer incentives and kill the unions works for me.

Your argument might work if they paid more than a slave wage where they go. All thise factors you name may be true, but in the end it's about desperate people willing to work so cheap that they make enough not to starve.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Wages are huge part of the equation but a lack of a productive and reliable workforce is also major reason why companies move their mfg out of the US.

 

Add in the difficulty of dealing with ineffective, useless labor unions and it's easy to see how the US has mostly itself to blame for the massive sucking sound Mr. Perot warned us about.

 

Add tarriffs, continue to offer incentives and kill the unions works for me.

Dude, why are you a jerk off? You can't lump every single union in and be right. If a large part of the problem was ineffective unions with ineffective workers, then why aren't these companies just opening up factories in non union parts of this country? Is every US citizen a useless worker? Your argument is full of shlt and you know it. If you don't actually know it... well I feel sorry for you then.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I picture Vuduchile being pinned down and raped repeatedly by a union. Like he still has butt hole scars from the raping. It's the only reason I can come up with that makes his disdain make any sense.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Dude, why are you a jerk off? You can't lump every single union in and be right. If a large part of the problem was ineffective unions with ineffective workers, then why aren't these companies just opening up factories in non union parts of this country? Is every US citizen a useless worker? Your argument is full of shlt and you know it. If you don't actually know it... well I feel sorry for you then.

Those are my opinions from personal experience dealing with labor unions.

 

You're entitled to disagree. You're also entitled to call me an jerk off.

 

Why don't you tell me exactly what your Union does for you that the company you work for couldn't do themselves?

 

Then, go fock yourself with a "Proud Union Home" sign.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Those are my opinions from personal experience dealing with labor unions.

 

You're entitled to disagree. You're also entitled to call me an jerk off.

 

Why don't you tell me exactly what your Union does for you that the company you work for couldn't do themselves?

 

Then, go fock yourself with a "Proud Union Home" sign.

Don't have one. It's pointless.

 

I make $12 more per hour than a non union welder.

 

I get $8 per hour put into an annuity, doubt non union welder guy gets $1

 

I have great health insurance. Non union guy probably has some insurance, no way it's as good as mine.

 

I get $2500 a year for dental. Non union guy is probably luck to have $1500. And he pays for his insurance. I dont.

 

I will get a nice pension. Non union guy wont.

 

In return for all of these extra benefits, why do I deserve more?

 

I was trained in a huge training center that is probably the best in the nation, including union training centers.

 

I served a 4 year apprenticeship.

 

In order to maintain my welding certs I need to adhere to UA guidelines which are as stringent as it gets. I just went through the process and literally took my weld test today. It was a pain in the ass.

 

I love when the non union welders tell me "I don't pay to work", meaning dues. Well good for you a hole, I make a lot more than you do, and I'm better.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Don't have one. It's pointless.

 

I make $12 more per hour than a non union welder.

 

I get $8 per hour put into an annuity, doubt non union welder guy gets $1

 

I have great health insurance. Non union guy probably has some insurance, no way it's as good as mine.

 

I get $2500 a year for dental. Non union guy is probably luck to have $1500. And he pays for his insurance. I dont.

 

I will get a nice pension. Non union guy wont.

 

In return for all of these extra benefits, why do I deserve more?

 

I was trained in a huge training center that is probably the best in the nation, including union training centers.

 

I served a 4 year apprenticeship.

 

In order to maintain my welding certs I need to adhere to UA guidelines which are as stringent as it gets. I just went through the process and literally took my weld test today. It was a pain in the ass.

 

I love when the non union welders tell me "I don't pay to work", meaning dues. Well good for you a hole, I make a lot more than you do, and I'm better.

Not one thing from your list couldn't be done by your company.

 

Only about 11% of the total US workforce is unionized, and are they're increasingly concentrated in the public sector.

 

Only about 6% of private sector workers are unionized.

 

Why do you think that is?

 

Because unions are outdated and useless. They no longer play a significant role in assimilating immigrants, protecting worker rights, policing discrimination, giving political voice to the working class, or equalizing incomes. And job security? Please. They can't keep your company from laying you off.

 

They exist to collect dues and line the pockets of their hierarchy.

 

Maybe you've stared into the spark without a mask one too many times, because you appear to be blinded by the light.

 

On a side note, I worked as a welder's helper during the summers in high school. Welding certainly requires skill and you need to be properly trained to do it well. But, let's not pretend it's more than it really is. It's an important manual labor job, but it doesn't require a massive amount of education.

[wiffleball 4,642]

Did you guys catch his 'euphemism' line?

 

Too funny.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Don't have one. It's pointless.

 

I make $12 more per hour than a non union welder.

 

I get $8 per hour put into an annuity, doubt non union welder guy gets $1

 

I have great health insurance. Non union guy probably has some insurance, no way it's as good as mine.

 

I get $2500 a year for dental. Non union guy is probably luck to have $1500. And he pays for his insurance. I dont.

 

I will get a nice pension. Non union guy wont.

 

In return for all of these extra benefits, why do I deserve more?

 

And yet those who actually provide you with jobs no credit for any of this, but they certainly get blame when those jobs leave.

 

 

 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Not one thing from your list couldn't be done by your company.

 

Only about 11% of the total US workforce is unionized, and are they're increasingly concentrated in the public sector.

 

Only about 6% of private sector workers are unionized.

 

Why do you think that is?

 

Because unions are outdated and useless. They no longer play a significant role in assimilating immigrants, protecting worker rights, policing discrimination, giving political voice to the working class, or equalizing incomes. And job security? Please. They can't keep your company from laying you off.

 

They exist to collect dues and line the pockets of their hierarchy.

 

Maybe you've stared into the spark without a mask one too many times, because you appear to be blinded by the light.

 

On a side note, I worked as a welder's helper during the summers in high school. Welding certainly requires skill and you need to be properly trained to do it well. But, let's not pretend it's more than it really is. It's an important manual labor job, but it doesn't require a massive amount of education.

See this is what I'm talking about. You are just making shlt up. I have worked along side these non union welders and like I said they DON'T get paid anywhere near I do. Nor would I if I went to non union. Sure I'd make more than most since my pipefitting skills are what really set me apart, but not near what I do now.

 

The other issue I have is with people claiming unions are out dated since we don't need them any more, labor laws and all. Labor laws are not going forward in my part of the country. 15 minute morning breaks used to be law, which is why it was never put in our contract. That law was repealed but contractors still gave it to us since it's the human thing to do, ya know working in sub 0 Temps or in sweltering heat. Well customers are starting to take that away where they can get away with it.

 

A lunch used to be 30 minutes by law. Illinois law changed it to 20 minutes. So now by law in a 10 hour day any company whose employees do not have a contract stating otherwise, they only need to let their workers break for 20 minutes the entire day.

 

Unions if anything are needed more than ever. With more work being outsourced and replaced by automation, that will leave more and more people without an avenue to work in. More people desperate to feed their families mean they work for a lesser wage, if they don't stand together and demand a certain standard.

 

So yeah when you lump every union in as obsolete and we are all the same, you lose any credibility. Just like I can't sit here and say every job out there needs to be 100% union and that would be great for our country and be right, you can't say the opposite and be right. Just speaking in absolutes and lumping everything into one category. It's a major flaw I see with this country.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

The two last major incidents at the citgo refinery near me were both non union caused.

 

They opened the wrong flanged inside the alky acid unit. A gas cloud traveled through the plant and consumed 4 pipefitters. It burned their lungs so bad they can never work again. One dude couldn't even hold down a security job.

 

The last major fire was because again non union opened the wrong line. They burned down a vacuum tower and almost the entire unit. It took us union hands 4 months of 7 12s to rebuild it. Lucky no one was killed.

 

It's the pipefitting skill that set us apart most from non union, not the welding. That's stuff they just don't teach guys. I wish all unions took their employees training as seriously. Some don't and it gives us all a bad look, but that's them, not everyone.

 

So people say I am overpaid. I am overpaid where I can get engulfed in an acid cloud any moment and die? That's one of countless things that can go wrong in these places.

[drobeski 3,061]

The two last major incidents at the citgo refinery near me were both non union caused.

 

They opened the wrong flanged inside the alky acid unit. A gas cloud traveled through the plant and consumed 4 pipefitters. It burned their lungs so bad they can never work again. One dude couldn't even hold down a security job.

 

The last major fire was because again non union opened the wrong line. They burned down a vacuum tower and almost the entire unit. It took us union hands 4 months of 7 12s to rebuild it. Lucky no one was killed.

 

It's the pipefitting skill that set us apart most from non union, not the welding. That's stuff they just don't teach guys. I wish all unions took their employees training as seriously. Some don't and it gives us all a bad look, but that's them, not everyone.

 

So people say I am overpaid. I am overpaid where I can get engulfed in an acid cloud any moment and die? That's one of countless things that can go wrong in these places.

pipe fitting skills ? Really? Like cutting and threading pipe andream assembling it ?

Holy schit that's so tough to learn.

 

A couple got crushed in a tunnel here in Boston not to long ago. Union installed ceiling panels.

A kid got crushed by a giant steel gate in my home town a couple of years ago...union hack didn't put it back nor properly secure it. Another kid in Nashua NH just got washed down a storm drain about a month ago...union hack never put the cover back on properly.

 

You guys brag about union built while ignoring the thousands of instances of union killt.

[vuduchile 1,941]

See this is what I'm talking about. You are just making shlt up. I have worked along side these non union welders and like I said they DON'T get paid anywhere near I do. Nor would I if I went to non union. Sure I'd make more than most since my pipefitting skills are what really set me apart, but not near what I do now.

 

The other issue I have is with people claiming unions are out dated since we don't need them any more, labor laws and all. Labor laws are not going forward in my part of the country. 15 minute morning breaks used to be law, which is why it was never put in our contract. That law was repealed but contractors still gave it to us since it's the human thing to do, ya know working in sub 0 Temps or in sweltering heat. Well customers are starting to take that away where they can get away with it.

 

A lunch used to be 30 minutes by law. Illinois law changed it to 20 minutes. So now by law in a 10 hour day any company whose employees do not have a contract stating otherwise, they only need to let their workers break for 20 minutes the entire day.

 

Unions if anything are needed more than ever. With more work being outsourced and replaced by automation, that will leave more and more people without an avenue to work in. More people desperate to feed their families mean they work for a lesser wage, if they don't stand together and demand a certain standard.

 

So yeah when you lump every union in as obsolete and we are all the same, you lose any credibility. Just like I can't sit here and say every job out there needs to be 100% union and that would be great for our country and be right, you can't say the opposite and be right. Just speaking in absolutes and lumping everything into one category. It's a major flaw I see with this country.

What did I make up?

 

I'm not typically one to generalize about most things, but I guess I do when I come to labor unions. You won't convince me otherwise, and I won't convince you, so further debate is pointless.

 

I believe I mentioned before that one of the guys who runs your pipefitters union was a client of mine. He told me point blank that he would never use union carpenters or plumbers to remodel his home because they're way too expensive. He also asked me not to repeat that because it would be pretty bad for him if people he worked with found out.

 

I'll leave it at that.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

pipe fitting skills ? Really? Like cutting and threading pipe andream assembling it ?

Holy schit that's so tough to learn.

 

A couple got crushed in a tunnel here in Boston not to long ago. Union installed ceiling panels.

A kid got crushed by a giant steel gate in my home town a couple of years ago...union hack didn't put it back nor properly secure it. Another kid in Nashua NH just got washed down a storm drain about a month ago...union hack never put the cover back on properly.

 

You guys brag about union built while ignoring the thousands of instances of union killt.

You are joking right? Threading pipe is probably about 2% of what I do. Try rigging a piece of pipe that weighs 30k pounds with multiple angle changes in it. Rigging it so it won flip or kill someone. Then changing the position to fit into tight spaces. Threading pipe . People talking like they have a clue.

[drobeski 3,061]

You are joking right? Threading pipe is probably about 2% of what I do. Try rigging a piece of pipe that weighs 30k pounds with multiple angle changes in it. Rigging it so it won flip or kill someone. Then changing the position to fit into tight spaces. Threading pipe . People talking like they have a clue.

Wowsa rigging pipe

[wiffleball 4,642]

For those of you who aren't so much big on the reading,

 

Seth Myers absolutely sums up the whole Carrier thing.

 

Still, my favorite part is Trump being apparently gobsmacked

 

that someone from Carrier didn't believe jobs were going to move

 

to Mexico - because Trump said so.

 

To which, Trump said "I didn't think I said that"

 

then, when he was shown tape of it, said:

 

" that was a Euphanism!" (Uh, no it's not, and that's not how you say it)

 

So, even Trump is on tape saying he doesn't believe his own bullshiit.

 

But Again, Seth Myers sums it all up very well:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9sRdqWfpfc

[wiffleball 4,642]

Sarah Palin Says Trump's Carrier Deal Could Be 'Crony Capitalism'

https://gma.yahoo.com/sarah-palin-says-trumps-carrier-deal-could-crony-003404827--abc-news-topstories.html#

 

I'll give her some credit for criticizing this deal as she's being considered for a cabinet position. The way Trump's been going, he'll still offer the Vet position to her.

 

 

Sarah Palin Says Trump's Carrier Deal Could Be 'Crony Capitalism'

https://gma.yahoo.com/sarah-palin-says-trumps-carrier-deal-could-crony-003404827--abc-news-topstories.html#

 

I'll give her some credit for criticizing this deal as she's being considered for a cabinet position. The way Trump's been going, he'll still offer the Vet position to her.

 

Did you ever notice that when Palin uses terms like this, it's pretty obvious she's

 

 

like a five year old who learned a new word / term for the first time?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Wowsa rigging pipe

Why would you laugh at something you have no clue how to do and would fail at if there was any degree of difficulty to the pick?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

Seth Myers. Lol. The lib bench was really shallow behind Stewart. He cried cause HRC lost, right? Because his mommy is also named Hillary and she wanted a woman president so bad. Good grief

[Strike 3,979]

Dude, why are you a jerk off? You can't lump every single union in and be right. If a large part of the problem was ineffective unions with ineffective workers, then why aren't these companies just opening up factories in non union parts of this country? Is every US citizen a useless worker? Your argument is full of shlt and you know it. If you don't actually know it... well I feel sorry for you then.

 

Are you aware of what happened when Boeing tried to do exactly this, opening a plant in South Carolina to supposedly replace union workers in Washington State?