Kansas bill would allow teachers to carry guns in schools...

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

You think changing from Mary the Librarian to Suzie the Home Ec teacher is a point? Well it is in a way, it is a point that you don't want to have an intelligent debate. That's cool, carry on.

Wooooosh. And no way does it surprise me that this would be what you would focus on. Completely missed the point. Yeah you're probably right I don't really feel like having an intelligent debate with YOU.

[SUXBNME 1,512]

1. The shooter will still have them out gunned. I don't foresee a teacher carrying some sort of long assault rifle.

 

I disagree with this

[cyclone24 1,913]

I disagree with this

How so? I mean I think you would agree that the person doing the shooting is going to come in pretty heavily armed with some sort of an assault rifle correct?

 

I sincerely doubt the schools are going to have some sort of weapon storage in every room. A teacher is not going to carry around an assault rifle although I think some of you would promote that. Just a hunch that it's going to be some sort of sidearm. Can you tell me how that's not being out gunned?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,486]

It's amazing that keeping our schools safe has turned in to a more/less guns debate. It just goes to show this has gone beyond a practical solution into a political tug of war, actual safety of the schools is in the background now. Access control doesn't need any laws to be passed. Just fund it and almost all of these shootings inside the schools will cease.

[MDC 7,471]

6 months academy, 3 months field training. On the street. Required to go to the range 2x a year, maybe do some FATS training. Maybe, but it's not required. There's more EEO and feel good BS training happening than tactical training. Much more. All this para military training you think is going on in police departments is in your imagination. And that's not your fault, but yapping about it is. Hush.

Looks like Mahoney here has done some online research.

[tubby_mcgee 701]

How so? I mean I think you would agree that the person doing the shooting is going to come in pretty heavily armed with some sort of an assault rifle correct?

 

I sincerely doubt the schools are going to have some sort of weapon storage in every room. A teacher is not going to carry around an assault rifle although I think some of you would promote that. Just a hunch that it's going to be some sort of sidearm. Can you tell me how that's not being out gunned?

 

 

If you get shot in the heart, lungs or head with a 9mm or .45, you're still most likely dead. Even if you have a .223 or .308 or 12 gauge in your hand. What does having a bigger gun in your hand do if a teacher shoots you through your heart (or head or stomach) from the back (or side or front or wherever?) The rules don't say "If the school shooter has a bigger gun, you are not allowed to kill him"

[SUXBNME 1,512]

 

 

If you get shot in the heart, lungs or head with a 9mm or .45, you're still most likely dead. Even if you have a .223 or .308 or 12 gauge in your hand. What does having a bigger gun in your hand do if a teacher shoots you through your heart from the back?

Pretty much this. Plus a hand gun is easier to maneuver, imo, plus just as quick to fire.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,486]

We have turned our police departments into a jobs program with diversity being the first and foremost goal. Let me know if you ever hear of a cop fired because they didn't qualify at the shooting range. Lol. Does anyone think that Somali cop in Minnesota who shot that woman from inside his police car, across his partners body was hired for his marksmanship skills? Or were other factors in his makeup the most important thing? And now people think every cop is a sharpshooter, and teachers can be brought up to speed in a few lessons at the range?. You're all fooling yourselves, both sides.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

 

If you get shot in the heart, lungs or head with a 9mm or .45, you're still most likely dead. Even if you have a .223 or .308 or 12 gauge in your hand. What does having a bigger gun in your hand do if a teacher shoots you through your heart from the back?

Oh for FFS....now the teacher is a marksman sniper.

 

Fine..let's play that game. Teacher is a marksman? Ok...so is my shooter.

[mobb_deep 920]

We have turned our police departments into a jobs program with diversity being the first and foremost goal. Let me know if you ever hear of a cop fired because they didn't qualify at the shooting range. Lol. Does anyone think that Somali cop in Minnesota who shot that woman from inside his police car, across his partners body was hired for his marksmanship skills? Or were other factors in his makeup the most important thing? And now people think every cop is a sharpshooter, and teachers can be brought up to speed in a few lessons at the range?. You're all fooling yourselves, both sides.

 

[posty 2,702]

Oh for FFS....

Fee-For-Service?

[tubby_mcgee 701]

Oh for FFS....now the teacher is a marksman sniper.

 

Fine..let's play that game. Teacher is a marksman? Ok...so is my shooter.

 

 

Okay. Let's play.

 

So you need to be a marksman to kill someone?

 

What don't you get? This isn't a video game. It's real life.

 

Chaos is ensuing. The shooter is walking around looking for targets. He doesn't have eyes on the back of his head. He can't pay attention to every last thing. There are easily opportunities there.

 

What are you picturing? A referee in the middle, a teacher on one end of the room behind a desk with a hand gun, and the school shooter with a long gun with a large magazine and the referee says "GO!" and then they are in a one on one battle? If that is the scenario...you are right. The teacher is likely in trouble. But that isn't the scenario.

 

So if someone breaks into my house with a 20" machete, and I slice his throat back to his spine with a 6" box cutter, does it matter if had the longer knife?

 

 

[cyclone24 1,913]

Fee-For-Service?

You sonofabitch.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

 

Okay. Let's play.

 

So you need to be a marksman to kill someone?

 

What don't you get? This isn't a video game. It's real life.

 

Chaos is ensuing. The shooter is walking around looking for targets. He doesn't have eyes on the back of his head. He can't pay attention to every last thing. There are easily opportunities there.

 

What are you picturing? A referee in the middle, a teacher on one end of the room behind a desk with a hand gun, and the school shooter with a long gun with a large magazine and the referee says "GO!" they are in a one on one battle? If that is the scenario...you are right. The teacher is likely in trouble. But that isn't the scenario.

 

So if someone breaks into my house with a 20" machete, and I slice his throat back to his spine with a 6" box cutter, does it matter if had the longer knife?

 

 

Wooooooowwwww. Ok...easy John Rambo.

 

My point in my response to his comment was that if you're going to play make-believe that the teacher can just suddenly step out of the room and hit a shooter in the heart with one shot with handgun then I'm going to say my shooter with a high-powered assault rifle is also a marksman shooter.

I'm not sure how you can stretch reality to where the teacher is somehow highly trained and skilled but the shooter barely knows how to function the gun and is just shooting bullets into the ceiling or whatever.

I don't think it's some Big Stretch to say the person coming in shooting will outgun and surprise the teacher.

[posty 2,702]

You sonofabitch.

[tubby_mcgee 701]

Wooooooowwwww. Ok...easy John Rambo.

 

My point in my response to his comment was that if you're going to play make-believe that the teacher can just suddenly step out of the room and hit a shooter in the heart with one shot with handgun then I'm going to say my shooter with a high-powered assault rifle is also a marksman shooter.

I'm not sure how you can stretch reality to where the teacher is somehow highly trained and skilled but the shooter barely knows how to function the gun and is just shooting bullets into the ceiling or whatever.

I don't think it's some Big Stretch to say the person coming in shooting will outgun and surprise the teacher.

 

Because I am thinking clearly, using real-world examples....doesn't make me John Rambo. Okay..well...the box cutter thing was stretch...but I don't think Rambo used any box cutters.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

Because I am thinking clearly, using real-world examples....doesn't make me John Rambo. Okay..well...the box cutter thing was stretch...but I don't think Rambo used any box cutters.

Ha shiit... actually I thought he did use a box cutter. Hah

[Herbivore 1,134]

 

I think the training and arming of select teachers is a difficult topic and worth debating. MDC brings up good points about how to identify lethal threats. Could be hostage situations and numerous other things.

 

But when you parrot the "Mary the Librarian" MSM lemming talking point, you show that you don't want to have an intelligent debate.

 

after tubby was so reasonable...

 

CNN is the same way. They love seeing school shootings. Its all about the agenda.

[parrot 789]

 

 

Okay. Let's play.

 

So you need to be a marksman to kill someone?

 

What don't you get? This isn't a video game. It's real life.

 

Chaos is ensuing. The shooter is walking around looking for targets. He doesn't have eyes on the back of his head. He can't pay attention to every last thing. There are easily opportunities there.

 

 

[Thornton Melon 622]

Pretty much this. Plus a hand gun is easier to maneuver, imo, plus just as quick to fire.

A handgun is harder to aim, though. Although, its still better than a box of rocks.

[mobb_deep 920]

A handgun is harder to aim, though. Although, its still better than a box of rocks.

 

And if you get clipped by a 9mm, you're more likely to still be mobile, than if you got clipped by .223 or .308 projectile.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I think the training and arming of select teachers is a difficult topic and worth debating. MDC brings up good points about how to identify lethal threats. Could be hostage situations and numerous other things.

 

But when you parrot the "Mary the Librarian" MSM lemming talking point, you show that you don't want to have an intelligent debate.

Jerry, some people think this concept is so ill-conceived that an intelligent debate is impossible. Some of us realize good guys with guns are already causing more harm than good, so incentivizing more people to arm themselves is ludicrous.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Can you think of any ways that shooting at an intruder in your own home might be different than identifying / killing an active shooter in a school setting?

Take your time, really give it some thought.

Excellent question.

 

I’ll add: Can you think of a reason keeping a firearm at school is safer than keeping one at home?

[Alias Detective 1,406]

Excellent question.

I’ll add: Can you think of a reason keeping a firearm at school is safer than keeping one at home?

Wait. I thought guns were ok in schools if in the good guys hands?

[cyclone24 1,913]

Wait. I thought guns were ok in schools if in the good guys hands?

I'm even willing to make this claim....

 

A male teacher with a gun will use it to forcibly assault a student long before it ever used to stop at shooting.

[Alias Detective 1,406]

I'm even willing to make this claim....

A male teacher with a gun will use it to forcibly assault a student long before it ever used to stop at shooting.

How about the hands of trained security?

[cyclone24 1,913]

How about the hands of trained security?

Yeah...they'll probably rape kids too with it.

 

 

[penultimatestraw 473]

Wait. I thought guns were ok in schools if in the good guys hands?

I should be clear: the good guys with guns to whom I refer are private citizens without extensive gun training. Like the teachers. Not cops, military or officers whose job revolves around protecting others.

[Alias Detective 1,406]

I should be clear: the good guys with guns to whom I refer are private citizens without extensive gun training. Like the teachers. Not cops, military or officers whose job revolves around protecting others.

That does clear up some of my previous questions.

[Alias Detective 1,406]

I should be clear: the good guys with guns to whom I refer are private citizens without extensive gun training. Like the teachers. Not cops, military or officers whose job revolves around protecting others.

Maybe a teacher right? If trained and or had a former career in protecting others.

[cyclone24 1,913]

Maybe a teacher right? If trained and or had a former career in protecting others.

I would be okay with that but I mean we are talking about a really low number of people that fit that.

 

Women make up about 75% of all teachers. Well only 15% of our military are women. How many of that 15% when they get done are going to want to teach?

 

Just not sure I subscribe to this idea that because they were in the military or police that somehow that just makes them good teachers. This is why I'm not crazy about the idea.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Maybe a teacher right? If trained and or had a former career in protecting others.

What cyclone said. I also think you’d have scrutinize why they left their former career.

[Alias Detective 1,406]

I agree.

 

And Pen, yes, that is obviously part of the rigorous process to be able carry as a teacher.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I agree.

 

And Pen, yes, that is obviously part of the rigorous process to be able carry as a teacher.

I don't know what is obvious anymore. Some of these guys cannot acknowledge any downside to increasing the proportion of our populace that is armed.

[jerryskids 6,825]

Jerry, some people think this concept is so ill-conceived that an intelligent debate is impossible. Some of us realize good guys with guns are already causing more harm than good, so incentivizing more people to arm themselves is ludicrous.

 

Awesome! So you've lost the millions of us in the middle because you, like Cyclone, lack the ability to empathize with the other side. A typical liberal fatal flaw BTW. Carry on.

 

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

Awesome! So you've lost the millions of us in the middle because you, like Cyclone, lack the ability to empathize with the other side. A typical liberal fatal flaw BTW. Carry on.

 

 

Pot...effing....kettle.

[parrot 789]

 

Awesome! So you've lost the millions of us in the middle because you, like Cyclone, lack the ability to empathize with the other side. A typical liberal fatal flaw BTW. Carry on.

 

 

Are you actually calling cyclone a liberal?

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

Are you actually calling cyclone a liberal?

Don't ask him to explain that. I can't even Define where I fall. Probably 60/40 conservative.

[jerryskids 6,825]

 

Are you actually calling cyclone a liberal?

 

I am, in the context of this discussion. Have you seen our exchange? Has he shown any ability whatsoever to acknowledge let alone get my point about arming Mary the Librarian?

[parrot 789]

 

I am, in the context of this discussion. Have you seen our exchange? Has he shown any ability whatsoever to acknowledge let alone get my point about arming Mary the Librarian?

 

So because you don't like his line of argument and he falls to the liberal side on this one issue, you just assign him as a liberal even though he espouses pretty conservative viewpoints regularly? And then you hit him with your "See, liberals lack empathy!" line. Gee, that's convenient.