Kansas bill would allow teachers to carry guns in schools...

[Cdub100 3,929]

It is the one thing that has proven to work time and time again.

[tubby_mcgee 701]

1. The shooter will still have them out gunned. I don't foresee a teacher carrying some sort of long assault rifle.

 

2. The shooter will most assuredly take them by surprise. He has this element in his favor.

 

3. The teacher will have a self-preservation to get home that the shooter will not have. This is just in a teachers DNA which is probably why they are teachers and not trained officers, military, etc that understand they could die every single day.

 

4. I don't see this deterring anything. It may change the way the shooter Procedes. Maybe he can't just go into the school and while they shoot. Maybe now he sneaks the gun into a large classroom and make sure he shoots the teacher first then all the students in it and then just takes his chances. IMO now teachers are getting shot first then the students. I'm not sure how we can say that's a win.

 

 

You're listing things that are valid, up until, the part where the teachers/theSRO's the good guys with a gun are given the opportunity to end the threat.

 

 

And self preservation, is what will make the teacher want to have gun,then use it when the situation arises.

 

Sort of the like the military and police. They want to live also, and they know they might be in a situation where are up against an enemy with a gun. So does that mean they don't want guns?

 

[MDC 7,471]

 

Fair point, but I don't think that advantage trumps a decently trained school teacher protecting his students. Many people would forget about themselves and only their only goal would be to protect the kids and that in a way is expecting to die.

Police train for years to not just handle a firearm / marksmanship but also to identify and deal with lethal threats, and even they the experts make mistakes sometimes. What % of teachers who own guns do you think are qualified to deal with a lethal threat with any degree of competence?

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

 

You're listing things that are valid, up until, the part where the teachers/theSRO's the good guys with a gun are given the opportunity to end the threat.

 

 

And self preservation, is what will make the teacher want to have gun,then use it when the situation arises.

 

Sort of the like the military and police. They want to live also, and they know they might be in a situation where are up against an enemy with a gun. So does that mean they don't want guns?

 

Of course they do. That doesn't mean they would perform in the situation though.

 

It's the same reason I have an extraordinary amount of respect for military people because I know I couldn't do it.

I think like a majority of people if you gave them a gun in threw them into a military situation sure they would want the gun but that doesn't mean that when bullets are flying that they could use it properly.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,270]

 

 

So....you think its the uniform. Put on a cop uniform and suddenly, you are ready to tote a gun? Brilliant stuff! Sorry MDC, a cop uniform doesn't make you trained. Training does.

 

Many teachers are ALREADY fully capable of handling a weapon. We have 4 in our school that are part of the local National Guard unit. We have 2 others that have concealed carry permits.

 

You don't think these teachers would accept a bump in salary (heck....MANY would do it for FREE) to take additional training? You don't think a national guard member could handle a gun after a couple few classes?

 

You also think teachers are going to just start shooting wildly into a group of kids? LOL. Where are you getting these wild thoughts? Who taught you to think that way?

 

I'm guessing you are from a part of the country where you see thugs with guns in the news every night, and assume that everyone handles guns the same way. So living in a sh!t hole like that, I can see why you are paranoid. But it's not like that.

 

But I am still giggling over the fact you think a cop suit means you are trained with a gun. lol!

Why are you giggling like a school girl over this? These are the people fighting for more guns. Oof

[tubby_mcgee 701]

Police train for years to not just handle a firearm / marksmanship but also to identify and deal with lethal threats, and even they the experts make mistakes sometimes. What % of teachers who own guns do you think are qualified to deal with a lethal threat with any degree of competence?

 

 

I'm not specifically trained like a police officer either.

 

BUT...if an intruder comes into my home. (keep in mind, almost all of my guns I have ever bought...are for the intent of hunting), I know how to aim/point the laser at the target (any target) and I know how to pull the trigger.

 

I guess If I shoot and kill him or wound him and he runs from the house, my wife and kids aren't going to care that I didn't have the utmost training.

 

Sort of like the kid that was stuck in the undercurrent at the beach or or was in a rolled over car in the water in the ditch. I"m not a lifeguard or a first responder, but I got got the job done.

[tubby_mcgee 701]

Why are you giggling like a school girl over this? These are the people fighting for more guns. Oof

 

I'm giggling at someone who seemed to think anyone other than someone dressed in a uniform isn't capable of handling a gun.

[iam90sbaby 2,620]

Police train for years to not just handle a firearm / marksmanship but also to identify and deal with lethal threats, and even they the experts make mistakes sometimes. What % of teachers who own guns do you think are qualified to deal with a lethal threat with any degree of competence?

 

I think only teachers who believe in this law will start carrying and those will seek out the proper training. There is more potential for bad things to happen in the beginning, but as the programs improve and the training the teachers are receiving improve I really don't see that being an issue. The line between having everything under control and absolute chaos is a lot thicker than you are making it seem. It isn't like the mass shooter starts firing, every teacher pulls their gun out and starts shooting too. I believe many would still barricade the door and keep the firearm aimed right at the entrance and wouldn't be walking around the campus pursuing the shooter.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

 

I'm not specifically trained like a police officer either.

 

BUT...if an intruder comes into my home. (keep in mind, almost all of my guns I have ever bought...are for the intent of hunting), I know how to aim/point the laser at the target (any target) and I know how to pull the trigger.

 

I guess If I shoot and kill him or wound him and he runs from the house, my wife and kids aren't going to care that I didn't have the utmost training.

 

Sort of like the kid that was stuck in the undercurrent at the beach or or was in a rolled over car in the water in the ditch. I"m not a lifeguard or a first responder, but I got got the job done.

To a point yes... But an intruder in your home is not the same as a school shooting that's taking place.

I mean in your home the first thing you're going to hear is not an AR-15 just blazing bullets in your house. First sounds a schoolteacher would hear is guns blazing. If it were you are probably not getting to your guns any way in which case self-preservation.

[jerryskids 6,825]

Yeah the Parkland shooter had an armed officer and it still didn't deter him. But I'm sure Mary the librarian is going to instill a lot of fear. Is that the logic you think makes sense? Yikes

 

I think the training and arming of select teachers is a difficult topic and worth debating. MDC brings up good points about how to identify lethal threats. Could be hostage situations and numerous other things.

 

But when you parrot the "Mary the Librarian" MSM lemming talking point, you show that you don't want to have an intelligent debate.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

I think the training and arming of select teachers is a difficult topic and worth debating. MDC brings up good points about how to identify lethal threats. Could be hostage situations and numerous other things.

 

But when you parrot the "Mary the Librarian" MSM lemming talking point, you show that you don't want to have an intelligent debate.

Why? Because it's true?

 

By all means tell me how if a deputy sheriff with police training in the understanding that he could die every day doesn't go in to a school shooting and stop it please explain to me how a teacher who generally are not exactly American bad asses are suddenly going to stop it while she's teaching?

And you're criticizing someone else about intelligent debate? Really?

[iam90sbaby 2,620]

 

I think the training and arming of select teachers is a difficult topic and worth debating. MDC brings up good points about how to identify lethal threats. Could be hostage situations and numerous other things.

 

But when you parrot the "Mary the Librarian" MSM lemming talking point, you show that you don't want to have an intelligent debate.

 

EXACTLY. That's why having a conversation with him about it is stupid. MDC, Frozen, they are open for debate.. cyclone always comes into the gun threads and tells the same lame azz joke everytime.

[iam90sbaby 2,620]

Why? Because it's true?

 

By all means tell me how if a deputy sheriff with police training in the understanding that he could die every day doesn't go in to a school shooting and stop it please explain to me how a teacher who generally are not exactly American bad asses are suddenly going to stop it while she's teaching?

And you're criticizing someone else about intelligent debate? Really?

 

In real life is your name Chad? You are definitely a Chad.

[jerryskids 6,825]

Why? Because it's true?

 

By all means tell me how if a deputy sheriff with police training in the understanding that he could die every day doesn't go in to a school shooting and stop it please explain to me how a teacher who generally are not exactly American bad asses are suddenly going to stop it while she's teaching?

And you're criticizing someone else about intelligent debate? Really?

 

Hmm, where to start... it is a logical fallacy to assert that because a single specific officer did not enter the school, no other people ever would intervene. Also should a trained teacher in the future not intervene in such a case, like Parkland, the presence and training of that teacher (or deputy) would not cause additional harm, other than the cost of training them. If you want to argue that the cost of training is not worth the potential benefit, that might make sense. But you aren't.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my finger muscles here, but there you go.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

Hmm, where to start... it is a logical fallacy to assert that because a single specific officer did not enter the school, no other people ever would intervene. Also should a trained teacher in the future not intervene in such a case, like Parkland, the presence and training of that teacher (or deputy) would not cause additional harm, other than the cost of training them. If you want to argue that the cost of training is not worth the potential benefit, that might make sense. But you aren't.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my finger muscles here, but there you go.

So it's a fallacy to take one case.....I could actually take others.... And say because that officer didn't do it doesn't impune the idea that a teacher could do it. Even though a teacher has never done it. Got it.

 

Oh and it's also not a fallacy to say that it wouldn't hurt to train them. Sure could. Give me an fairly Loosely trained teacher that has never been in a situation like that who now is also shooting bullets everywhere? Yeah he could kill another student. Have fun with that lawsuit.

 

Get real.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

In real life is your name Chad? You are definitely a Chad.

The same guy that complains about stale jokes is using The Chad blast?

 

So clever.

[jerryskids 6,825]

So it's a fallacy to take one case.....I could actually take others.... And say because that officer didn't do it doesn't impune the idea that a teacher could do it. Even though a teacher has never done it. Got it.

 

Oh and it's also not a fallacy to say that it wouldn't hurt to train them. Sure could. Give me an fairly Loosely trained teacher that has never been in a situation like that who now is also shooting bullets everywhere? Yeah he could kill another student. Have fun with that lawsuit.

 

Get real.

 

Yes, it is a fallacy.

 

Your second paragraph is a worthy topic of discussion. How much training would be needed? Is it feasible? Would it likely create more harm than good? How do we try to objectively determine the answers?

 

My initial comment was about "Mary the Librarian." That's just dumb and sounds like something you copied and pasted from Huffpo.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

Yes, it is a fallacy.

 

Your second paragraph is a worthy topic of discussion. How much training would be needed? Is it feasible? Would it likely create more harm than good? How do we try to objectively determine the answers?

 

My initial comment was about "Mary the Librarian." That's just dumb and sounds like something you copied and pasted from Huffpo.

Well however you want to word it. Susie the home ec teacher. The point is most teachers are predominately women. I'm not saying a woman can't handle a gun or herself but we're just playing the percentages and odds here a little.

 

And none of these odds the more you go down the line are particularly in a teachers favor.

[MDC 7,471]

 

 

I'm not specifically trained like a police officer either.

 

BUT...if an intruder comes into my home. (keep in mind, almost all of my guns I have ever bought...are for the intent of hunting), I know how to aim/point the laser at the target (any target) and I know how to pull the trigger.

 

I guess If I shoot and kill him or wound him and he runs from the house, my wife and kids aren't going to care that I didn't have the utmost training.

 

Sort of like the kid that was stuck in the undercurrent at the beach or or was in a rolled over car in the water in the ditch. I"m not a lifeguard or a first responder, but I got got the job done.

Can you think of any ways that shooting at an intruder in your own home might be different than identifying / killing an active shooter in a school setting?

 

Take your time, really give it some thought.

[Big Guy 1,412]

Carry on my wayward sons!

[parrot 789]

Who's Kansas Bill and when did we make him pope?

[cyclone24 1,913]

Who's Kansas Bill and when did we make him pope?

Bill Self apparently has more clout than I thought.

[MDC 7,471]

 

I think only teachers who believe in this law will start carrying and those will seek out the proper training.

Well Trump said we should look at the possibility of up to 20% of teachers having concealers guns. Assuming demographics on gun ownership are consistent among teachers vs the general population, that would mean every teacher who owns a gun at all would be qualified to carry it in school. That is insane.

[parrot 789]

Bill Self apparently has more clout than I thought.

 

 

He did knock Duke out so I'm going to allow it I guess.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,270]

Its beyond fvcked up that in this day and age, where we should be more advanced as a society, we have to now arm teachers

[mobb_deep 920]

So dumb on so many levels.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,356]

I love that the left turns this into the librarian is going to save the day

 

its people who are trained with firearms, its not easy to get a CC, its likely guys who were former military or law enforcement who will now be able to CC, and training available for those who want to learn

 

I wish the coach from Parkland was able to bring his gun with him that day, you never know

[Frozenbeernuts 2,270]

I love that the left turns this into the librarian is going to save the day

 

its people who are trained with firearms, its not easy to get a CC, its likely guys who were former military or law enforcement who will now be able to CC, and training available for those who want to learn

 

I wish the coach from Parkland was able to bring his gun with him that day, you never know

Wish in one hand and shlt in the other. See which one fills up first

[Cdub100 3,929]

Its beyond fvcked up that in this day and age, where we should be more advanced as a society, we have to now arm teachers

Agreed but bad people do bad things. It has happened throughout history and bad people will do bad things in the future.

 

The best we can do is put in people in place to try and stop it before it happens and or minimize the impact.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,356]

Agreed but bad people do bad things. It has happened throughout history and bad people will do bad things in the future.

 

The best we can do is put in people in place to try and stop it before it happens and or minimize the impact.

 

hugs

[mobb_deep 920]

I love that the left turns this into the librarian is going to save the day

 

its people who are trained with firearms, its not easy to get a CC, its likely guys who were former military or law enforcement who will now be able to CC, and training available for those who want to learn

 

I wish the coach from Parkland was able to bring his gun with him that day, you never know

 

LOL. It is absolutely 100% easy to get a CC. Maybe not in California, where it is a political issue. But, as far as most of the country and how proficient you need to be with a weapon to get a CC, it's basic as fock. You fill out a form and take a quick training class and test. Done.

[parrot 789]

 

LOL. It is absolutely 100% easy to get a CC. Maybe not in California, where it is a political issue. But, as far as most of the country and how proficient you need to be with a weapon to get a CC, it's basic as fock. You fill out a form and take a quick training class and test. Done.

 

I think in Montana Hunter's Safety qualifies as your CC training, even though Hunter's Safety has fock all to do with concealed carry.

[Thornton Melon 622]

 

Sh!t happens and the world will never be perfect. While this isn't the solution I want it is better than leaving entire schools defenseless when something like this does actually happen. It isn't like the teachers are being forced to carry, only the ones willing to learn proper gun safety will seek this out.

 

Can't say it any better than this

[cyclone24 1,913]

Can't say it any better than this

So band aids.....awesome. Dont deal with the problem....just add more guns to solve our gun problem.

 

Woof.

 

 

I mean its a never ending string. So lets say by some miracle it stops all school shootings. So the guy just goes to the mall, protect the mall....he goes to the grocery store.....so then we make everywhere available to carry a gun. Wel fock...at that point lets just all wear guns in a holster like the wild west.

 

At some point...you have to fix the gun problem, volume, ability to get, enforcement, types, etc...everything.

Protecting certain places with guns just pushes things somewhere else.

[jerryskids 6,825]

Well however you want to word it. Susie the home ec teacher. The point is most teachers are predominately women. I'm not saying a woman can't handle a gun or herself but we're just playing the percentages and odds here a little.

 

And none of these odds the more you go down the line are particularly in a teachers favor.

 

So you don't want to have an intelligent debate, awesome, thanks for letting me know.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,487]

Police train for years to not just handle a firearm / marksmanship but also to identify and deal with lethal threats, and even they the experts make mistakes sometimes. What % of teachers who own guns do you think are qualified to deal with a lethal threat with any degree of competence?

6 months academy, 3 months field training. On the street. Required to go to the range 2x a year, maybe do some FATS training. Maybe, but it's not required. There's more EEO and feel good BS training happening than tactical training. Much more. All this para military training you think is going on in police departments is in your imagination. And that's not your fault, but yapping about it is. Hush.

[cyclone24 1,913]

So you don't want to have an intelligent debate, awesome, thanks for letting me know.

 

Yeah ive made several points as to why your idea is stupid.....but keep beating that drum.

[iam90sbaby 2,620]

Yeah ive made several points as to why your idea is stupid.....but keep beating that drum.

 

Do you realize how many people actually CC? I don't know what the exact number is for your state but in Florida last I heard it was 1 in 27. This image in your head that just because someone carries a gun bullets start flying is just wrong and stupid. Also this stereotype that gun owners are doing it to be a tough guy is idiotic as well. Most never speak of carrying their firearm on them almost never even mention it unless they are shooting the sh!t with someone about guns. Makes sense because you don't even realize how many people around you are carrying. You sound like a focking woman, go educate yourself and shut up, you've proven yourself uninformed on the subject.

[jerryskids 6,825]

Yeah ive made several points as to why your idea is stupid.....but keep beating that drum.

 

You think changing from Mary the Librarian to Suzie the Home Ec teacher is a point? Well it is in a way, it is a point that you don't want to have an intelligent debate. That's cool, carry on.

[cyclone24 1,913]

 

Do you realize how many people actually CC? I don't know what the exact number is for your state but in Florida last I heard it was 1 in 27. This image in your head that just because someone carries a gun bullets start flying is just wrong and stupid. Also this stereotype that gun owners are doing it to be a tough guy is idiotic as well. Most never speak of carrying their firearm on them almost never even mention it unless they are shooting the sh!t with someone about guns. Makes sense because you don't even realize how many people around you are carrying. You sound like a focking woman, go educate yourself and shut up, you've proven yourself uninformed on the subject.

You must get wood shitted here at shonos level by a lot of people. So pretty ironic post.

 

Sweetie I never once said those who carry are doing it to be a tough guy. In fact I feel it's quite the opposite. If you can't go out of the house without going strapped you are either going places you shouldn't be going at times you shouldn't be going there or you're just paranoid. Feel free to pick one of those.

It's funny. You want to say how many people are concealed carry and that there's all these people out there with guns yet they never stop these mass shootings. You want to say how unlikely it is you will be caught in a mass shooting yet you're still paranoid enough to be carrying all these guns.

 

And yes maybe I do have an image in my head that because someone carries a gun bullets start flying. Again that could just have something crazy like the fact we haven't gone a week in a couple years now without someone 5 years or younger grabbing a Gun and shooting someone in the house with it. Or maybe you would like me to go over how many mass shootings we have had since Sandy Hook? Spoiler alert it's average almost one a day. Yeah we are really good with guns.