5-Points 3,581 Posted November 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Herbivore said: it was quid pro quo, Trump and pals tried to smear political opponent via conspiracy theories, you dont care. your conspiracy theories are no better. You owe me a new irony meter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Filthy Fernadez 2,696 Posted November 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Herbivore said: it was quid pro quo, Trump and pals tried to smear political opponent via conspiracy theories, you dont care. your conspiracy theories are no better. Your quid pro quo is the conspiracy theory FFS. That you won't read documented proof of the facts including Biden/Kerry corruption, Dems/Ukraine 2016 election meddling is just an indictment on your ignorance. There are none so blind as those who will not see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Filthy Fernadez 2,696 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Kanil said: You seem to think I have skin in caring about the impeachment. I've only pointed out hypocrisy. I'm quoting you to point out the irony of your statement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,581 Posted November 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, Strike said: That no one thought the call was out of the ordinary. I mean, there were like 25 people listening in on the call. They weren't all Trump lackeys. Yet no one thought it was out of the ordinary enough to report it until much later. See, the difference you and I have is that I can see why Trump asked for the investigation(s). And I don't know but have no reason to believe he was targeting Biden. It's unfortunate that Biden ended up in the cross hairs but that says more about Biden and the swamp than it does Trump. But you're biased. Everything Trump does you assume is corrupt, much like I do with Hitlery. And that's fine. But so far the evidence here is lacking. If you really cared about corruption you'd want the Burisma/Biden thing investigated too. No one in their right mind thinks Hunter Biden got that gig due to his merits. And if his dad or just his family lineage got him the job that's a problem. Even the Obama administration expressed concerns about it. But because TRUMP we don't want it investigated? Please. /thread 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Strike said: That no one thought the call was out of the ordinary. I mean, there were like 25 people listening in on the call. They weren't all Trump lackeys. Yet no one thought it was out of the ordinary enough to report it until much later. See, the difference you and I have is that I can see why Trump asked for the investigation(s). And I don't know but have no reason to believe he was targeting Biden. It's unfortunate that Biden ended up in the cross hairs but that says more about Biden and the swamp than it does Trump. But you're biased. Everything Trump does you assume is corrupt, much like I do with Hitlery. And that's fine. But so far the evidence here is lacking. If you really cared about corruption you'd want the Burisma/Biden thing investigated too. No one in their right mind thinks Hunter Biden got that gig due to his merits. And if his dad or just his family lineage got him the job that's a problem. Even the Obama administration expressed concerns about it. But because TRUMP we don't want it investigated? Please. It’d be one thing if Americans were investigating Biden. I doubt that would go over well either and that’s probably precisely why trump felt the need to go outside the country. But no, this is something totally different. This is a President withholding vital military assistance in an effort to extort a foreign government into investigating a political rival. Extremely, extremely inappropriate. And you’re just flat out wrong that nobody had a problem with the July 25 call. Numerous people have testified that they did. Obviously it was known to be problematic as well since it was hidden on a different server and people who would’ve normally been given a copy of it were not (I.e. Sondland and Taylor) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lickin_starfish 1,942 Posted November 20, 2019 There's one issue with Trump that has never been solved, and it bothers me to this day. Why did he get those two scoops of ice cream? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Filthy Fernadez 2,696 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, IGotWorms said: And you’re just flat out wrong that nobody had a problem with the July 25 call. Numerous people have testified that they did. Obviously it was known to be problematic as well since it was hidden on a different server and people who would’ve normally been given a copy of it were not (I.e. Sondland and Taylor) Those people got their feebings hurt. Also, moving such calls was normal. Did you cry when Obama did it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kanil 520 Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, lickin_starfish said: There's one issue with Trump that has never been solved, and it bothers me to this day. Why did he get those two scoops of ice cream? I thought maybe you just weren't logged in. Turns out you are just ignoring my question because you know you're wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 It’ll be interesting to see who, if anyone, from trump, pence, Mulvaney and Pompeo now testifies. They’ve all been implicated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lickin_starfish 1,942 Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, Kanil said: I thought maybe you just weren't logged in. Turns out you are just ignoring my question because you know you're wrong. What question? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kanil 520 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, lickin_starfish said: What question? 1 hour ago, Kanil said: Lets try an experiment. But it will require some action on your part so just let me know if you're willing to do this or not. Go to work tomorrow and tell someone who is not white to "go back to where you came from". Next, find a coworker with disabilities and mock them for it. Next, grab a female coworker "by the poosay". Next, call an ugly female coworker a "horse face" and a "dog". Are you willing to do that? If you're not willing to do that, why? Is it because you know they are morally wrong? Because those are all things President Trump as said and done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lickin_starfish 1,942 Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Kanil said: Lets try an experiment. But it will require some action on your part so just let me know if you're willing to do this or not. Go to work tomorrow and tell someone who is not white to "go back to where you came from". Snopes: fake news, not what Trump said. Next, find a coworker with disabilities and mock them for it. Fake news Next, grab a female coworker "by the poosay". Do you have proof of Trump grabbing a coworker by it? Next, call an ugly female coworker a "horse face" and a "dog". I've done that when the person deserved it. Are you willing to do that? If you're not willing to do that, why? Is it because you know they are morally wrong? Because those are all things President Trump as said and done. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,607 Posted November 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, IGotWorms said: It’d be one thing if Americans were investigating Biden. I doubt that would go over well either and that’s probably precisely why trump felt the need to go outside the country. But no, this is something totally different. This is a President withholding vital military assistance in an effort to extort a foreign government into investigating a political rival. Extremely, extremely inappropriate. And you’re just flat out wrong that nobody had a problem with the July 25 call. Numerous people have testified that they did. Obviously it was known to be problematic as well since it was hidden on a different server and people who would’ve normally been given a copy of it were not (I.e. Sondland and Taylor) Again, show me the evidence of this. So far, all we've got is witness after witness saying that wasn't the case. Oh, and the supposed "victim", the Ukraine, has denied it as well. As I said, you just want to think the worst because TRUMP but the evidence is severely lacking here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kanil 520 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, lickin_starfish said: Those videos must have been deep fakes then. Damn... these computer folks are getting good with those! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,581 Posted November 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, IGotWorms said: It’d be one thing if Americans were investigating Biden. I doubt that would go over well either and that’s probably precisely why trump felt the need to go outside the country. But no, this is something totally different. This is a President withholding vital military assistance in an effort to extort a foreign government into investigating a political rival. Extremely, extremely inappropriate. And you’re just flat out wrong that nobody had a problem with the July 25 call. Numerous people have testified that they did. Obviously it was known to be problematic as well since it was hidden on a different server and people who would’ve normally been given a copy of it were not (I.e. Sondland and Taylor) Well, when corruption takes place in another country, do we or do we not need the cooperation of that country in order to conduct an investigation? Also, since it was a Ukrainian company where the alleged corruption occurred, wouldn't it be prudent to enlist the help of the Ukrainian government in investigating that aspect of the alleged corruption? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lickin_starfish 1,942 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Kanil said: Those videos must have been deep fakes then. Damn... these computer folks are getting good with those! You'll be the one biitching about deepfake videos soon enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Utilit99 4,099 Posted November 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, lickin_starfish said: There's one issue with Trump that has never been solved, and it bothers me to this day. Why did he get those two scoops of ice cream? I heard that someone in the ice cream shop might have heard Trump say that the ice cream was "a great deal." Meaning, he used his influence as president to intimidate the shop keeper to give him and extra scoop for free. That investigation is next in line after the most current one fails to provide evidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted November 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, IGotWorms said: And you’re just flat out wrong that nobody had a problem with the July 25 call. Numerous people have testified that they did. Obviously it was known to be problematic as well since it was hidden on a different server and people who would’ve normally been given a copy of it were not (I.e. Sondland and Taylor) The transcript has been "certified" as essentially correct by all parties with nary a mention of aid, so you can stop those assumptions right now. Leaks are the only way, and no one has admitted to hearing a leak or being a leaker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,945 Posted November 20, 2019 So whatta we got now? Trump bribing the Ukraine by offering a meeting in exchange for an investigation into possible corruption involving the Bidens. Is that it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbivore 1,142 Posted November 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, TimmySmith said: What conspiracy theory are you talking about? feel free to review this thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, vuduchile said: So whatta we got now? Trump bribing the Ukraine by offering a meeting in exchange for an investigation into possible corruption involving the Bidens. Is that it? No, it's the Ukranians bribing Trump by offering up an investigation in return for a WH visit. Which as we all know, didn't happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Herbivore said: feel free to review this thread So nothing, got it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,581 Posted November 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, vuduchile said: So whatta we got now? Trump "bribing" the Ukraine by offering a meeting in exchange for a statement indicating an intent to begin an investigation into possible corruption involving Burisma. Is that it? Edited for accuracy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,148 Posted November 20, 2019 Actually we did get something today. Finally DIRECT evidence from the horses mouth. Not hearsay, not presumptions but a direct quote from the President from a first hand person as testified before Congress back when all this was transpiring. Sonland: Mr.President, what do you want me to do with Ukraine....do you want a quid pro quo POTUS: No, I want nothing. I just want Zelinsky to do what he ran on in his campaign (aka fight corruption). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 49 minutes ago, Strike said: Again, show me the evidence of this. So far, all we've got is witness after witness saying that wasn't the case. Oh, and the supposed "victim", the Ukraine, has denied it as well. As I said, you just want to think the worst because TRUMP but the evidence is severely lacking here. Well I guess you just haven’t been paying attention. The evidence mostly comes from Taylor and Sondland, also Taylor’s assistant. There’s the July 25 summary too and Mulvaney’s statement, plus the Jennifer Williams gal. Vindman adds some in too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 50 minutes ago, 5-Points said: Well, when corruption takes place in another country, do we or do we not need the cooperation of that country in order to conduct an investigation? Perhaps and if DOJ or whomever made that request things might be different though likely problematic in a different way. Then we’d ask whether Barr or whomever might be abusing their power. But no, instead the president went and did it of his own accord and using withholding of vital military aid to extort, as well as the prospect of a much-needed official White House visit to affirm the United States’ support for Ukraine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,581 Posted November 20, 2019 BOMBSHELL: Turner: "Nobody on this planet told you that Donald Trump was tying aid to these investigations, is that correct?" Sondland: "yes" Wah wah wah waaaaaahhh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 35 minutes ago, vuduchile said: So whatta we got now? Trump bribing the Ukraine by offering a meeting in exchange for an investigation into possible corruption involving the Bidens. Is that it? That’s a very generous rephrasing of the issue and totally leaving out extortion via withholding vital military aid for Ukraine’s ongoing war with RUSSIA, but otherwise, yeah you’re close. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted November 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said: That’s a very generous rephrasing of the issue and totally leaving out extortion via withholding vital military aid for Ukraine’s ongoing war with RUSSIA, but otherwise, yeah you’re close. We get it. extortion and vital are extremely important to your side. Of course this is the same type of extortion as giving aid to a country to fight your enemies is in the first place but that is for a different thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,607 Posted November 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, IGotWorms said: That’s a very generous rephrasing of the issue and totally leaving out extortion via withholding vital military aid for Ukraine’s ongoing war with RUSSIA, but otherwise, yeah you’re close. Did the new polling suggest that extortion does better than quid pro quo or bribery? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,581 Posted November 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, IGotWorms said: Perhaps and if DOJ or whomever made that request things might be different though likely problematic in a different way. Then we’d ask whether Barr or whomever might be abusing their power. But no, instead the president went and did it of his own accord and using withholding of vital military aid to extort, as well as the prospect of a much-needed official White House visit to affirm the United States’ support for Ukraine. So is it your opinion that it is wrong for a POTUS to withhold foreign aid until he is confident that the recipient is no longer engaging in corruption? Trump's aversion to foreign aid in general aside, I, for one, feel that it is absolutely appropriate for the POTUS to assess the trustworthiness of a new administration in a country infamous for rampant corruption prior to giving them $400 Million of taxpayer money. I mean, it's not like he strapped $ billions to pallets and dropped them off no questions asked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,518 Posted November 20, 2019 Impeachment is a tool to be used for high crimes, not making mountains out of mole hills. But the left doesn't care about that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 Another VERY interesting facet of Sondland’s testimony: Trump only wanted the Ukrainians to ANNOUNCE an investigation into Burisma/the Bidens — he didn’t care if they actually DID the investigation. Again, it was all political, designed solely to damage Biden. Not to actually get to the bottom of same insane conspiracy theory but simply to undercut a domestic political rival. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Strike said: Did the new polling suggest that extortion does better than quid pro quo or bribery? The fock do I care? Just calling it as I see it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,518 Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, IGotWorms said: The fock do I care? Just calling it as I see it How come you didn't see it earlier? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,581 Posted November 20, 2019 Today I learned that as far as Democrats are concerned the presumption of guilt trumps the presumption of innocence. How unAmerican. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,607 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, IGotWorms said: Another VERY interesting facet of Sondland’s testimony: Trump only wanted the Ukrainians to ANNOUNCE an investigation into Burisma/the Bidens — he didn’t care if they actually DID the investigation. Again, it was all political, designed solely to damage Biden. Not to actually get to the bottom of same insane conspiracy theory but simply to undercut a domestic political rival. Didn't Sondland commit perjury? Yet you still consider him credible. Says all we need to know about your bias. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 4,059 Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, Hardcore troubadour said: How come you didn't see it earlier? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,518 Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, IGotWorms said: Why weren't you calling it extortion the whole time? What changed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,607 Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said: How come you didn't see it earlier? He only sees what he wants to see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites