Californians Learning That Solar Panels Don’t Work in Blackouts

[Baker Boy 1,692]

Californians have embraced rooftop solar panels more than anyone in the U.S., but many are learning the hard way the systems won’t keep the lights on during blackouts.

That’s because most panels are designed to supply power to the grid -- not directly to houses. During the heat of the day, solar systems can crank out more juice than a home can handle. Conversely, they don’t produce power at all at night. 

So systems are tied into the grid, and the vast majority aren’t working this week as PG&E Corp. cuts power to much of Northern California to prevent wildfires.

The only way for most solar panels to work during a blackout is pairing them with batteries. That market is just starting to take off. Sunrun Inc., the largest U.S. rooftop solar company, said hundreds of its customers are making it through the blackouts with batteries.

https://news.bloombergenvironment.com/environment-and-energy/californians-learning-that-solar-panels-dont-work-in-blackouts

[Kanil 520]

Anyone that didn't know you need to store power in batteries if you wanted to use it later deserves to be in the dark.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

2 minutes ago, Kanil said:

Anyone that didn't know you need to store power in batteries if you wanted to use it later deserves to be in the dark.

I agree but the world is full of idiots who are bereft of common sense.

https://www.reddit.com/r/holdmyfeedingtube/           Daily examples

[sderk 1,040]

Anyone that goes through the process of having solar panels installed and doesn't understand how they work deserves what they get. I can't believe the story doesn't just say, "here is the perfect example of stupid people".

[Baker Boy 1,692]

10 minutes ago, Kanil said:

Anyone that didn't know you need to store power in batteries if you wanted to use it later deserves to be in the dark.

I think most people knew they wouldn’t get power during a blackout without the sun, but they didn’t know they would also be blacked out at noon on a sunny day.

from the op

That’s because most panels are designed to supply power to the grid -- not directly to houses.

[Bert 1,128]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

I think most people knew they wouldn’t get power during a blackout without the sun, but they didn’t know they would also be blacked out at noon on a sunny day.

from the op

That’s because most panels are designed to supply power to the grid -- not directly to houses.

That is the same as not knowing your sub prime mortgage has a balloon payment due in 5 years.

[sderk 1,040]

18 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

I think most people knew they wouldn’t get power during a blackout without the sun, but they didn’t know they would also be blacked out at noon on a sunny day.

from the op

That’s because most panels are designed to supply power to the grid -- not directly to houses.

It's net metering. Your meter has company supplied and customer supplied rate types. Then when you get billed, it's the KWH _IN minus the KWH_OUT.

Doesn't work like that for Demand as that is billed based around on-peak and off-peak.

[Baker Boy 1,692]

5 minutes ago, Bert said:

That is the same as not knowing your sub prime mortgage has a balloon payment due in 5 years.

Yup, and look at all the people that got burned on things like that.

 

[Bert 1,128]

4 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Yup, and look at all the people that got burned on things like that.

 

Lot's of stupid out there.   Simple lack of reading comprehension.  

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

Also, many people are leasing or renting to own the solar panels, they do not even buy them.

 

I think solar panels are going to be the future in much of the country, but we are still at least a decade away. Both the capture of solar energy will improve and the storage of the energy. I did look into it when we got a new roof on our house a couple years ago, but i did not want to wire into the grid and could not find a good storage solution that was reasonably priced.

 

 

 

Leasing solar panels, on the other hand, may not increase your home’s value at all. In fact, selling a house with leased solar panels may drive down the sales price. Homeowners with leased solar panels who are trying to sell only have two options. They can either buy out the remaining lease payments themselves, or they can attempt to find a buyer who is willing to take over those solar lease payments.

Solar companies who focus on lease options, like Solar City and SunRun, claim that they make it easy to transfer lease payments when selling a house with leased solar panels. But in reality, selling a house with leased solar panels adds an extra layer of complexity. One homeowner with leased solar panels reported that he had to lower the selling price of his home three times to get buyers interested. Potential buyers were “scared of the solar lease,” said his real estate agent.

 

 

https://rcenergysolutions.com/selling-a-house-with-leased-solar-panels-how-it-works/

[Kanil 520]

My in-laws just recently had some put in and they have gone crazy with it.  Like, DONT DO LAUNDRY AT NIGHT TIME, IT WILL COST US $0.14 IN ELECTRICITY!!!!

[sderk 1,040]

15 minutes ago, Kanil said:

My in-laws just recently had some put in and they have gone crazy with it.  Like, DONT DO LAUNDRY AT NIGHT TIME, IT WILL COST US $0.14 IN ELECTRICITY!!!!

That doesn't make sense. Are they simple residential customers? Or are they running a laundry factory?

[Mike Honcho 5,166]

They should have gotten a solar inverter...that's what I have on my house.   

[Cdub100 3,853]

[Big Guy 1,410]

Dumb......if anything Solar Panels are an OFF GRID system. That's what we do.

[sderk 1,040]

5 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

Dumb......if anything Solar Panels are an OFF GRID system. That's what we do.

They put it all back on the grid or whatever local network if there is one.

[Big Guy 1,410]

Just now, sderk said:

They put it all back on the grid or whatever local network if there is one.

yeah I know......but if unless the Electric Company pays you to put them up, why involve them at all?

[sderk 1,040]

5 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

yeah I know......but if unless the Electric Company pays you to put them up, why involve them at all?

Depending on the state and jurisdiction, they have various different incentives that they can come up with depending on what the regulatory folks come up with and get approved by the local councils. It's and ongoing pitch and catch process with the utility lawyers and the city/state councils.

[Cdub100 3,853]

16 minutes ago, sderk said:

They put it all back on the grid or whatever local network if there is one.

Can't have people free from total government control now can we?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

22 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

Dumb......if anything Solar Panels are an OFF GRID system. That's what we do.

Companies have developed solar farms in urban and suburban neighborhoods.  They put up the panels for free and give the homeowner some sort of break, but the power goes to the grid.  That's the deal. 

[Drizzay 703]

2 hours ago, Bert said:

That is the same as not knowing your sub prime mortgage has a balloon payment due in 5 years.

This is why I still contend that the mortgage crisis from 2007/8 was 50% banks, 50% stupid borrowers.

[Mike Honcho 5,166]

16 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

yeah I know......but if unless the Electric Company pays you to put them up, why involve them at all?

For me, it's a location issue---I get enough sun to more than power my home year round, but the majority of that between spring and fall solstice.   If I didn't stay connected to grid, I would need a large battery array to store all excess power generated in summer to provide for winter.  Right now, all my excess goes back to utility-and I get a credit which pays for winter months.

 

[sderk 1,040]

10 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Can't have people free from total government control now can we?

Well, there  are deregulated markets in Texas and Cali and other states, but I see your point. Thing is, electricity isn't very expensive in the long run unless you live in a huge barn, and frankly, that would be your choice. And there are so many money saving programs that are offered to the customers. I deal with this stuff off and on pretty much on a daily basis over the past 16 years. There is a chance if you live in LA, MS, AR, TX, DE, MI, NJ, and a few others, you probably are seeing on your bills the affect of the rate design and build I have put in place in those areas. I don't decide the tariffs, just how they are implemented in the systems.   

[drobeski 3,061]

It's not really suprising that a state that the majority of its residents voted for Hillary happens to be full of dumb focking idiots. 

[Kanil 520]

3 hours ago, sderk said:

That doesn't make sense. Are they simple residential customers? Or are they running a laundry factory?

Just their normal house.  Apparently if they use less than they produce, they get paid X (don't know the exact amount) per kw/hr but if they pull from the grid they pay 3X.

 

PS - They're multi-millionaires and live in Texas where things cost like half what they would cost elsewhere.  It's crazy.

[Kanil 520]

Oh yeah.  They bought an iPad that they literally mounted to the wall with whatever app they have that measures how much electricity they're generating.  They use that to determine when it's OK to run laundry, etc.

[sderk 1,040]

1 minute ago, Kanil said:

Just their normal house.  Apparently if they use less than they produce, they get paid X (don't know the exact amount) per kw/hr but if they pull from the grid they pay 3X.

 

PS - They're multi-millionaires and live in Texas where things cost like half what they would cost elsewhere.  It's crazy.

Hmm... Are they with Entergy? Maybe Reliant? If they are in a dereg market they can pick their retailer. 

[sderk 1,040]

1 minute ago, Kanil said:

Oh yeah.  They bought an iPad that they literally mounted to the wall with whatever app they have that measures how much electricity they're generating.  They use that to determine when it's OK to run laundry, etc.

That makes me curious. That's all kwh and also not time of use unless it's AMI and there is a utility incentive on because of a heat wave or something.

[Kanil 520]

1 minute ago, sderk said:

That makes me curious. That's all kwh and also not time of use unless it's AMI and there is a utility incentive on because of a heat wave or something.

I'm not sure.  All I know is my mother-in-law was very adamant that we wait until the AM to do our laundry, run dishes, etc..., while we were there last Thanksgiving.

[sderk 1,040]

15 minutes ago, Kanil said:

I'm not sure.  All I know is my mother-in-law was very adamant that we wait until the AM to do our laundry, run dishes, etc..., while we were there last Thanksgiving.

Well, if she's with Entergy and knows simply what rate category she is on ( for example TX_RS), I could tell you the prices and logic behind all the charges, but if she is on Reliant, I'm not in their system at this time.

And I am not assuming you care that much. ☺

[edjr 6,578]

I have to run on a wheel to get my power to work when it's dark

[Mike Honcho 5,166]

53 minutes ago, edjr said:

I have to run on a wheel to get my power to work when it's dark

FFMike uses the same principle to power his servers.   

[Hawkeye21 2,388]

2 hours ago, Kanil said:

I'm not sure.  All I know is my mother-in-law was very adamant that we wait until the AM to do our laundry, run dishes, etc..., while we were there last Thanksgiving.

Most electric companies suggest that people run their dishwashers, washers and dryers during off peak hours.  I think it's pretty common.

[Baker Boy 1,692]

4 hours ago, Drizzay said:

This is why I still contend that the mortgage crisis from 2007/8 was 50% banks, 50% stupid borrowers.

It was 70% Legislation and 30% banks. 

[Drizzay 703]

1 hour ago, Baker Boy said:

It was 70% Legislation and 30% banks. 

Not putting any blame on borrowers is stupid.

[Baker Boy 1,692]

This was a sub prime market, people with poor credit were given a loan, with no down payment, to cover the mortgage and closing costs. They also received cash at closing. This was backed by the government. They could never afford the house they bought and when the market crashed they walked away with a year or two of living in a nice house and the $10,000 - $20,000 they were given at closing. In many areas they took the cooper pipes, appliances, sinks, toilet, counter tops, etc. with rheum when they left. This was a big win for many people.

[BiPolarBear 483]

I have a Honda generator, and a blender for margaritas...so.  

[sderk 1,040]

15 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Most electric companies suggest that people run their dishwashers, washers and dryers during off peak hours.  I think it's pretty common.

Not that I am familiar with. There are AMI programs that if you sign up the utility will send out alerts when it's super hot and at a high consumption time of the day that if you keep your consumption down under a certain point (maybe for a few hours for a defined set time in that one day), they will give you a small credit on your bill per how many KWH you are below that given threshold for maybe a 2-4 hour window. Something like that. Utilities are often trying to be creative in their marketing and operations when the need arises for things like too much demand during a raging heat, but they still want their money.

But not really normal to try to get people to do their laundry in the morning, not residentials from any company I have seen. Commercial and industrial is a whole other animal. They put in on and off peak pricing structures for sure. And their demand billing structures can be quite complex. When some companies are  being charged $5-10 million dollars a month, they assign each of those with utility account managers to set the billing parameter and to haggle pricing.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,048]

These blackouts were planned? 

[peenie 1,906]

Call me stupid but that is exactly what they taught us. I don't own solar panels but it was pushed as an alternative way to supply power to your home. In other words, the sun's energy is captured in the panels and then power your home. Not sure about grids and such, they left that out in the explanation.

Quote

1. Photovoltaic cells absorb the sun’s energy and convert it to DC electricity
2. The solar inverter converts DC electricity from your solar modules to AC electricity, which is used by most home appliances
3. Electricity flows through your home, powering electronic devices
4. Excess electricity produced by solar panels is fed to the electric grid

Isn't #2 explaining that you don't need a grid?