Banning kids football

[bandrus1 413]

New bill in NYS proposing banning tackle football for kids under 12.

I played from 7 onward. Brother started at 6 with a faked birth certificate. Older and more detached I get from it the more I see the point. Not to say if say if approve banning it but I get it. If there was a toy or a food product or a chemical that the had the same test results we would probably ban it also.

 

We don't plan on having kids but I'd probably have them wrestle and play baseball

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I would never allow a kid of mine to play, especially that young. That said, fock the government for thinking they have the right to ban things. America is truly dead. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

Another bill on the table in NY allowing prisoners to vote. This is the modern Democratic Party. 

[MDC 5,915]

Is long term brain injury common in kids who play football that young? I thought the CTE type stuff was due to repeated concussion or frequent contact / damage from stuff like linemen slamming into each other? I didn’t think this was as much of an issue in kids football.

NFL is going to be in steep decline in the next few decades. The rules / refs are horrible, the game is ugly and they’re going to be starved for talent without an international pipeline like every other major sports league. 

[bostonlager 2,473]

And people wonder why kids today are softer than wet toilet paper. 

[Hawkeye21 1,864]

Banning it is ridiculous. If kids want to play football and their parents allow them to then they should be able to. Everyone is now aware of what the consequences can be. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Test results?  What test results?  The studies show the opposite unless you listen to the Concussion Legacy Foundation, which is founded by former wrestler Chris Nowinski, whose group is looking to push Flag Football (for money).  The data now is based on cherry picked former NFL players and they are trying to extrapolate to kids.

My youngest started in 3rd grade against my initial thoughts. I did my investigation and got involved in coaching him.  The youth game is VERY different than it was a long time ago.  Coaches are certified and trained much better.  Drills are done with safety in mind.  Hitting is cut back a ton with much more being done with dummies and tackle wheels.

If you want to really find out the truth - go watch Merril Hoge on Fox and Friends in 5 minutes.

I will post more later.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

I think 10 years old is a good starting age. They're just running into each other before that. 

[Reality 2,710]

There should be some sort of cutoff for tackle, not sure if 12 is the right age but, it's close.

[Gladiators 1,906]

Is smear the qweer still ok?

[bostonlager 2,473]

Just now, Gladiators said:

Is smear the qweer still ok?

I think the PC crowd renamed that game. It is now called kill the white kid. 

[Gladiators 1,906]

1 minute ago, bostonlager said:

I think the PC crowd renamed that game. It is now called kill the white kid. 

Sounds about right.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I think 10 years old is a good starting age. They're just running into each other before that. 

I think that you are close.  You want them starting to play tackle once they have the body control to use proper technique.  The older that they are when they start, the MORE risky it is.  Having a kid learning how to take down another kid with greater force (mass X acceleration) is more dangerous than when they are younger.

 

6 minutes ago, Reality said:

There should be some sort of cutoff for tackle, not sure if 12 is the right age but, it's close.

I disagree completely.  Flag football gives people a false sense of security.  It is not safer than tackle, particularly with the older kids.  

 

Things have changed a lot.  Here is what I push in our organization:

Kindergarten and first grade = Flag football. This is 5v5 or 7v7 with flags 

2nd and 3rd grade = Flex football.  This is 9v9 with 3 "linemen" who can block.  Kids wear soft helmets and soft shoulder pads.  There is still no tackling and flags are used instead, but there is blocking.

4th grade up = tackle football.  Kids are small enough to learn proper technique.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

I could see this going both ways, if you wait too long then kids are first learning technique while they are also first powerful enough to really hurt another player.

Easy decision for me is to just have my kids play other sports. 

[bostonlager 2,473]

Banning soccer should be first and foremost. It's turning the friggin' kids ghey

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

3 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

I could see this going both ways, if you wait too long then kids are first learning technique while they are also first powerful enough to really hurt another player.

Easy decision for me is to just have my kids play other sports. 

Just so that you are aware, the risks of other sports are similar (lacrosse, hockey, soccer, etc.) and the Concussion Legacy Foundation is going to be targeting them next.  Did you know that cheerleading has more injuries than tackle football?

[Djgb13 2,338]

My kid will play football just like I did. Nowadays it’s much safer than it used to be. Course my kid will also play other sports but I’ll introduce him to football. If he doesn’t like it then oh well. We will find a sport he does like 

[Cruzer 1,992]

I played pee wee football from 7 years old on myself.

Banning it for kids is ridiculous. If there's ever a safe time play the sport, it's then - not when they're 300 lbs. monsters.

[bandrus1 413]

Just now, Cruzer said:

I played pee wee football from 7 years old on myself.

Banning it for kids is ridiculous. If there's ever a safe time play the sport, it's then - not when they're 300 lbs. monsters.

It's not really about the force and size but what concussions do to you at say 6 7 8 vs 16 17 18

 

I remember seeing kids my age getting concussions in pee week so it isn't like it doesn't happen.

 

In the 11 or 12 years I played I only had one and that was my JR year

[Cruzer 1,992]

3 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

I remember seeing kids my age getting concussions in pee week so it isn't like it doesn't happen.

Must be extremely rare, I never saw it. I hardly saw any kid get seriously injured in all the pee wee football I played or was around.

[edjr 5,593]

Was only a matter of time. Right thing to do. Ban football

[Meglamaniac 380]

1 hour ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Just so that you are aware, the risks of other sports are similar (lacrosse, hockey, soccer, etc.) and the Concussion Legacy Foundation is going to be targeting them next.  Did you know that cheerleading has more injuries than tackle football?

Someone's been to a Pop Warner Coaches Clinic.

[bandrus1 413]

10 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Must be extremely rare, I never saw it. I hardly saw any kid get seriously injured in all the pee wee football I played or was around.

 

 

maybe it is I have no clue if there are statistics out there but I do remember it happening on at least one occasion.

 

My circumstance was during kick off return I I blocked somebody and we went head to head. Wasnt the hardest I had ever been hit but I had no clue where I was and after the kick off I went to the wrong huddle hahaha. I didnt remember the rest of the game the next day

 

But like I said I was a JR at that point

[Cruzer 1,992]

42 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

maybe it is I have no clue if there are statistics out there but I do remember it happening on at least one occasion.

I don't have any statistical data to back it up -

but I'd bet heavy $$ on there being far more serious skateboard related injuries to kids than pee wee football.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

20 minutes ago, Meglamaniac said:

Someone's been to a Pop Warner Coaches Clinic.

Actually, I have done my homework and we are part of AYF, not Pop Warner.  I have spoken with several neuroscientists as well.  This area is a hotbed for concussion and CTE studies.  

[posty 2,297]

3 hours ago, bandrus1 said:

We don't plan on having kids but I'd probably have them wrestle and play baseball

You can get just as concussed wrestling...

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

28 minutes ago, edjr said:

Was only a matter of time. Right thing to do. Ban football

So says the soccer phag. 

[Meglamaniac 380]

6 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Actually, I have done my homework and we are part of AYF, not Pop Warner.  I have spoken with several neuroscientists as well.  This area is a hotbed for concussion and CTE studies.  

Either way, it's good to see informed people on this front, props for taking the time to actually get the information to make an informed decision in regards to what is and what isn't safe.

I've been a part of Youth Football for well over 25 years now and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of dis-information that is out there in regards to concussions and the overall safety of playing youth tackle football.

[Hawkeye21 1,864]

The concerns are not about standard injuries are they?  Isn't the main concern about long term brain injuries?  I know in youth soccer around here they no longer allow heading the ball.

[bandrus1 413]

34 minutes ago, posty said:

You can get just as concussed wrestling...

Have proof?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

13 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

Have proof?

Posty is probably talking about pro-wrestling.  He's simple. 

[Hawkeye21 1,864]

16 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

Have proof?

To be fair, you can get just as concussed doing just about anything.  It's getting CTE that would be more specific to certain sports.  I doubt the odds of getting CTE from wrestling are very high.

[sderk 1,040]

45 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The concerns are not about standard injuries are they?  Isn't the main concern about long term brain injuries?  I know in youth soccer around here they no longer allow heading the ball.

Jeez. Why not just have the parents hold their hands when they play the game?

[vuduchile 1,941]

We decided to let our kids (9 &11) play tackle for the first time this year.  They've played flag since they were 6 & 8.  I also was a coach for both their teams.  

As fatboy said, injuries do happen in flag.  My youngest hurt his knee diving for a pass in flag.   And even though we teach them not to, kids have a natural tendency to dive for flags and fumbles, so kids knocking heads or taking knees to the face isn't unusual. 

There were 29 total kids on our 2 tackle teams.  For the year, we had 3 concussions, 1 broken arm and a host of other non serious bumps and bruises.  3 kids also quit during the season.  One of them because he broke his clavicle when he crashed his bike into a parked Jeep. 

I'm wary of the concussion diagnosis' with this age group.  Better safe than sorry, but these kids weren't knocked out or even woozy.  They took a hit on Sat,  then showed up on Monday with their moms saying they needed to be checked for a concussion.  I think if you walk into any doctor's office in the country and say you took a hit during a football game, their default response will be "you have a concussion, no football for 10 days"

The high school team, which went to 8 man football for the first time this year did have several kids with concussions.  2 of them happened during the last game of the year and both kids were de-cleated and out cold.  They were taken away by ambulance. 

There's really no way to take head to head collisions completely out of the game as it's played today.  It's often incidental, but it still happens.  We teach heads up tackling and hawk tackling at every practice.  We use dummies and wheels, and limit live hitting drills to twice per week. We also teach defenders and ball carriers alike not to lead with their heads.  If they're looking at the ground, they're doing it wrong and will likely get called for a penalty. 

Next year we are moving away from age groups and making teams by grade level.  3rd/4th will all be flag and tackle will start at 5th/6th grade, so we are already moving in a similar direction. 

Football has risks. Skateboarding, motor cross, skiing, basketball, soccer, bike riding all have risks.  Each family needs to decide for themselves if the benefits outweigh the risks.  

 

[Hawkeye21 1,864]

Just now, sderk said:

Jeez. Why not just have the parents hold their hands when they play the game?

I don't like the rule either.  They don't allow slide tackling either.  I can't imagine playing soccer that way.  It was a pretty physical sport when I played.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

To be fair, you can get just as concussed doing just about anything.  It's getting CTE that would be more specific to certain sports.  I doubt the odds of getting CTE from wrestling are very high.

... and here is part of the problem.  We don't know what causes CTE, so we really can't say which sports contribute since there are so many other factors.  This is why we need to have more/better research and we can't have people rushing to say that eliminating X will prevent CTE.

[Hawkeye21 1,864]

3 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

... and here is part of the problem.  We don't know what causes CTE, so we really can't say which sports contribute since there are so many other factors.  This is why we need to have more/better research and we can't have people rushing to say that eliminating X will prevent CTE.

I agree.

[Gladiators 1,906]

50 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I know in youth soccer around here they no longer allow heading the ball.

Same here.  Not allowed until U13 I believe.

Also the same with regards to slide tackling (U11 I believe), which I'm in favor of.  There's enough basic stuff to learn without throwing in how to properly slide tackle.

[sderk 1,040]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't like the rule either.  They don't allow slide tackling either.  I can't imagine playing soccer that way.  It was a pretty physical sport when I played.

There are people out there that don't want their kids to be physical in life. Sad.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

3 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

I'm wary of the concussion diagnosis' with this age group.  Better safe than sorry, but these kids weren't knocked out or even woozy.  They took a hit on Sat,  then showed up on Monday with their moms saying they needed to be checked for a concussion.  I think if you walk into any doctor's office in the country and say you took a hit during a football game, their default response will be "you have a concussion, no football for 10 days"

Football has risks. Skateboarding, motor cross, skiing, basketball, soccer, bike riding all have risks.  Each family needs to decide for themselves if the benefits outweigh the risks.  

Doctors absolutely have a "start with concussion" approach.  It is just easier for them and it is really hard to diagnose.  Best bet is for parents to do a baseline test before the season and use that as a diagnosis method along with determining when to start the return to play process.

Football has risks as do other sports.  The risks of kids not playing sports that they enjoy is even more and it HAS been measured before.  It has been great for my child and the kids on his team.

Aside from all of that, any legislative body looking to infringe on parent's rights via such a bill is ludicrous.  We are dealing with the same thing in MA, so I am very familiar with the rhetoric.