Atheists: How stupid are people really?

[Horseman 2,683]

9 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Yes the first is true. But evolution does not prove atheism is truth. For you to think that ends this discussion. You don't know what you are asserting or the why's or what's of it all. Everything seems to be going over your head man. 

 

58 minutes ago, Horseman said:

 

Some people say you ought to keep an open mind and stay agnostic, but that seems like a cop-out.  You could say the same thing about santa clause and the tooth fairy.  But if any new evidence turns up please let me know asap.  

Let me know why you have any evidence at all to discuss.  Otherwise I'm going to feel free to lump baby Jesus in with all the other fairy tales.  TIA.

[Utilit99 4,099]

7 minutes ago, Horseman said:

 

Let me know why you have any evidence at all to discuss.  Otherwise I'm going to feel free to lump baby Jesus in with all the other fairy tales.  TIA.

I don't have any evidence that atheism is truth. Neither do you. Remember the title of the thread. This is about atheism. Not religious beliefs. You claim to be logical, yet you have a severe inability to address the topic.  

 

[Voltaire 5,425]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

I think it’s arrogant to call yourself atheist

To me atheist and agnostic is splitting hairs. Technically we're all agnostics I suppose, but seeing as there are no theistic explanations that much interest me and I've pretty much closed the door such that I'm not holding out hope of finding one, just stick the atheist label on me and be done with it.

I have started to reconsider how I view the Bible in the last couple of years. Jordan Peterson in particular has me rethinking the Biblical stories in a different light and finding value: ancient psychology and ancient literary archetypes as well as historical traditions. 

I also like how Randall Carlson (and to a lesser extent Graham Hancock but he goes too far IMO) picks up on the Noah's Arc story, combines it with other cultural  myths and legends from around the world of a great flood from ancient times, and thinks that might be the cultural memory of the great melting of the glaciers during the younger dryas at the end of the Ice Age. It's so juicy, unprovable and untestable of course, but so juicy that humanity may have passed on via oral tradition memories of the younger dryas melting for 8000 years before they were able to develop writing and record them. Also, Gobekli Tepe just fascinates me. Since we were able to build that during the Ice Age, there's no reason to believe the Sphinx in Egypt couldn't also date back to the Ice Age as well, which would explain the signs of erosion via the runoff melting of that time, and make it much older than they think. I'm going off on a tangent. In Gobkli Tepe, we have proof of an Ice Age civilization doing something that we wouldn't be able to match for 5000 years.

[Utilit99 4,099]

13 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

To me atheist and agnostic is splitting hairs. Technically we're all agnostics I suppose, but seeing as there are no theistic explanations that much interest me and I've pretty much closed the door such that I'm not holding out hope of finding one, just stick the atheist label on me and be done with it.

I have started to reconsider how I view the Bible in the last couple of years. Jordan Peterson in particular has me rethinking the Biblical stories in a different light and finding value: ancient psychology and ancient literary archetypes as well as historical traditions. 

I also like how Randall Carlson (and to a lesser extent Graham Hancock but he goes too far IMO) picks up on the Noah's Arc story, combines it with other cultural  myths and legends from around the world of a great flood from ancient times, and thinks that might be the cultural memory of the great melting of the glaciers during the younger dryas at the end of the Ice Age. It's so juicy, unprovable and untestable of course, but so juicy that humanity may have passed on via oral tradition memories of the younger dryas melting for 8000 years before they were able to develop writing and record them. Also, Gobekli Tepe just fascinates me. Since we were able to build that during the Ice Age, there's no reason to believe the Sphinx in Egypt couldn't also date back to the Ice Age as well, which would explain the signs of erosion via the runoff melting of that time, and make it much older than they think. I'm going off on a tangent. In Gobkli Tepe, we have proof of an Ice Age civilization doing something that we wouldn't be able to match for 5000 years.

You might enjoy the 'Power of Myth' written by Joseph Campbell. It's basically the book version of a PBS film interview conducted by Bill Moyers of Joseph Campbell. The interview was six 1 hour episodes back in the late 80s. It's pretty interesting. The interviews had even gone up to the last years of his life and they were based on his life and his views of comparative mythology and the role that myth has on life as we know it.  

I kind of look at it like a  cliff's notes' book version of what Campbell is about, although, maybe a little bit more. I'm sure you can get the videos as well if desired. They were filmed mostly on George Lucas' Skywalker Ranch and then in his last couple years at the National Museum of Natural History in NY.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,879]

Why do atheists have to be so anti religion? What do they care?

[Mookz 1,362]

38 minutes ago, Strike said:

Watch the following documentary, that I've posted before.  It's a NOVA documentary that covers a trial regarding Intelligent Design.  Your question is covered extensively in reenactments of testimony from the trial.  In the meantime, can you post the links to where you "heard" what you heard.  I assume they're credible.

 

Thanks, I'll try to watch.  And no, I heard what I heard from ID'ers, so by definition you wouldn't consider it credible.  But I'll see if I can find a clip or two.

[Strike 5,908]

16 minutes ago, Mookz said:

Thanks, I'll try to watch.  And no, I heard what I heard from ID'ers, so by definition you wouldn't consider it credible.  But I'll see if I can find a clip or two.

Don't worry about it.  But do try to watch the video.  It's a very good documentary, if a bit long.

BTW, your question about the term "irreducibly complex" is specifically discussed starting around 1 hour and 5 minutes in. 

[nzoner 937]

6 hours ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Oh, and I should make sure that none of my holy word is written down for a century after the fact.

Just a quick 2 minute video,it barely begins to address the topic but at least it's something that offers a different view...

 

[Horseman 2,683]

1 hour ago, Utilit99 said:

I don't have any evidence that atheism is truth. Neither do you. Remember the title of the thread. This is about atheism. Not religious beliefs. You claim to be logical, yet you have a severe inability to address the topic.  

 

You keep failing to grasp the simple concept that Atheism is not a belief. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You keep failing to grasp the simple concept that Atheism is not a belief. 

If you don't believe in something, you believe it doesn't exist. 

[Horseman 2,683]

59 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why do atheists have to be so anti religion? What do they care?

It's a delusion.  It brainwashes children.  It teaches people to be simple minded and not think for themselves.  Example:  It allows for extremists to blow up buildings in the name of God and obtaining 72 virgins in the afterlife.

And before you make a list of all the good things non-extremist religions do, go through the list and pick out the ones that cannot be accomplished without religion.  That usually brings the list down to zero.

[Horseman 2,683]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

If you don't believe in something, you believe it doesn't exist. 

It may exist (what I believe is non-consequential to that), unfortunately for you there is overwhelming evidence that it doesn't.  And zero that it does.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, Horseman said:

It may exist (what I believe is non-consequential to that), unfortunately for you there is overwhelming evidence that it doesn't.  And zero that it does.  

We are talking about beliefs. You were asked about how you got to your beliefs. Not all atheists reasons. Yours.

I think you missed too many introduction to logic classes in high scholl or as a freshman in college. It's mind blowing how uneducated you are yet you claim not to be.

[BiPolarBear 495]

Then night before bI had a heart procedure, a tech at the hospital came into my room and wanted to save my soul. I told her no thanks; I don't follow anybody's religion. The procedure did not go well, and my liver and kidneys 100% shut down. Now things are really serious. I was going in for open heart surgery in the morning. She shows back up in my room and wants to know if nI needed Savin' again. I told her no.

If I had gone into a Christians room the night before surgery and told a patient that there religion was a joke, I would have gotten fired. Me, as an atheist thought of the hard work the tech, a single mom, had gone through to better her station in life. I let it go. She was just misdirected, and needed to stick to her medical job, and do her focking ministry when she is off work. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

10 minutes ago, Horseman said:

It's a delusion.  It brainwashes children.  It teaches people to be simple minded and not think for themselves. 

Exactly!!! Atheism does that for sure. Now you are finally getting it. USSR? China? Etc...

Atheists, particularly the secular left, have used violence and oppression to promote atheism.

Historically, atheism has generally been an integral part of communist ideology (see: Atheism and communism). According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."^[1] Under atheistic communism tens of millions of people were killed and many people were tortured (see: Atheism and mass murder and Atheistic communism and torture).

[Horseman 2,683]

Just now, Utilit99 said:

We are talking about beliefs. You were asked about how you got to your beliefs. Not all atheists reasons. Yours.

I think you missed too many introduction to logic classes in high scholl or as a freshman in college. It's mind blowing how uneducated you are yet you claim not to be.

Insults is the next logical step for you in this debate for sure.  You're slowing working your way through each debate logic fallacy.

I told you several times, the reason I don't believe is the lack of any evidence, zero, none, nada.  It's as simple as that.  It sucks for you because you are the one with an extra ordinary claim and burden of proof.  Not me.  You might be right, but any smart better has is money on the evidence.  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,477]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why do atheists have to be so anti religion? What do they care?

why do religious people have to be so anti-atheist?

I have never seen an atheist going door to door trying to convert people

also I dont care if you are religious, you do you

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

5 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Insults is the next logical step for you in this debate for sure.  You're slowing working your way through each debate logic fallacy.

I told you several times, the reason I don't believe is the lack of any evidence, zero, none, nada.  It's as simple as that.  It sucks for you because you are the one with an extra ordinary claim and burden of proof.  Not me.  You might be right, but any smart better has is money on the evidence.  

It's not an insult to point out your lack of education. I don't have any reason to insult you. I'm just pointing out your inability to handle the topic mentally.

There is probably a community college somewhere near you where you can get into a 100 level intro to logic class. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

why do religious people have to be so anti-atheist?

I have never seen an atheist going door to door trying to convert people

also I dont care if you are religious, you do you

 

I'm not anti atheist, I am just curious at how they came about thinking there is no chance a God exists.

[Horseman 2,683]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

It's not an insult to point out your lack of education. I don't have any reason to insult you. I'm just pointing out your inability to handle the topic mentally.

"How stupid are people really?"   It's right there in your thread title.   At least be genuine if you can't debate.

[Horseman 2,683]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

I'm not anti atheist, I am just curious at how they came about thinking there is no chance a God exists.

Very little chance.  As in - you might as well throw in the towel.  Odds are not in your favor.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,477]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

I'm not anti atheist, I am just curious at how they came about thinking there is no chance a God exists.

I dont think there is no chance that a God doesn't exist

I just dont think that a god does exist

here's my thing

without being taught about God nobody would ever think he existed

you have to be taught religion, nobody is born with those beliefs

 

[t.j 35]

On 12/26/2020 at 12:30 AM, BeenHereBefore said:

Okay will throw my 2 cents in here, I believe in Jesus but if you don't, can't understand that you can't see a higher power with intelligence watching over us and call it whatever you want. We would never be here without a higher intelligence. I have atheist friends too and think most have a grudge with God and probably believe in him but are just pissed at him! They love to bad mouth him any chance they get!

Agnostics are a bit different though and just don't believe in much at all. They have no grudge against a Higher Power.

As an agnostic, I tend to believe that a higher power is likely because there's no better explanation as to where the universe came from.

However, I don't find any particular religious mythology to be at all convincing.

[Horseman 2,683]

Look, right now I think the left is what is wrong with this country.  Religion is low down on the list.  But when someone comes in asking for people to prove why they don't believe something and linking a bunch of rhetoric from Conservopedia, it makes me wonder if some of us aren't just as stupid as the far left.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,477]

5 minutes ago, t.j said:

As an agnostic, I tend to believe that a higher power is likely because there's no better explanation as to where the universe came from.

However, I don't find any particular religious mythology to be at all convincing.

I believe in Greek Religion if any

a smart God would delegate responsibilities to other Gods

 

[Horseman 2,683]

11 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

I dont think there is no chance that a God doesn't exist

I just dont think that a god does exist

here's my thing

without being taught about God nobody would ever think he existed

you have to be taught religion, nobody is born with those beliefs

 

If he were born to a Muslim family he might just be a jihad rebel right now and the only difference would be mom and dad.  He clearly didn't get the opportunity to figure it out himself in a Judeo Christian setting, no way he works himself out of a Muslim upbringing.  

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,879]

37 minutes ago, Horseman said:

It's a delusion.  It brainwashes children.  It teaches people to be simple minded and not think for themselves.  Example:  It allows for extremists to blow up buildings in the name of God and obtaining 72 virgins in the afterlife.

And before you make a list of all the good things non-extremist religions do, go through the list and pick out the ones that cannot be accomplished without religion.  That usually brings the list down to zero.

So you want to compare 2020 Christianity to 2020 Islam? That’s what we’re doing here? And if you want to be concerned with brainwashing people and them not thinking for themselves, I suggest you look at higher education in this country. Especially anyone studying the humanities. They all appear to be emerging with the same line of thinking after graduation. 

[Horseman 2,683]

12 minutes ago, t.j said:

As an agnostic, I tend to believe that a higher power is likely because there's no better explanation as to where the universe came from.

However, I don't find any particular religious mythology to be at all convincing.

If there has to be a higher power to create the universe, who created the creator?

[Utilit99 4,099]

16 minutes ago, Horseman said:

"How stupid are people really?"   It's right there in your thread title.   At least be genuine if you can't debate.

It was a spinoff thread from the same title only religion based. Try to figure that one out. Genious.

[t.j 35]

Just now, Horseman said:

If there has to be a higher power to create the universe, who created the creator?

Mike FF Today, obviously

[Hardcore troubadour 15,879]

Just now, Utilit99 said:

It was a spinoff thread from the same title only religion based. Try to figure that one out. Genious.

I don’t know why that had to be explained. I guess that’s why they keep harping about it. 

[Horseman 2,683]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So you want to compare 2020 Christianity to 2020 Islam? That’s what we’re doing here? And if you want to be concerned with brainwashing people and then not thinking for themselves, I suggest you look at higher education in this country. Especially anyone studying the humanities. They all appear to be emerging with the same line of thinking after graduation. 

No, I don't want to compare them.  They are all crap.

[Utilit99 4,099]

17 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Very little chance.  As in - you might as well throw in the towel.  Odds are not in your favor.

What formula do you use to calculate your scientific odds that a God doesn't exist? 

 

[Horseman 2,683]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

It was a spinoff thread from the same title only religion based. Try to figure that one out. Genious.

You must have got your feelings hurt then?  Again the primary difference is religion is making the fantastical claims.  It doesn't work the other way around.

Sticks and stones.

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, Horseman said:

No, I don't want to compare them.  They are all crap.

Atheists? I don't think they are all crap. Not in the least. Just a bunch of them are/were:

theists, particularly the secular left, have used violence and oppression to promote atheism.

Historically, atheism has generally been an integral part of communist ideology (see: Atheism and communism). According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."^[1] Under atheistic communism tens of millions of people were killed and many people were tortured (see: Atheism and mass murder and Atheistic communism and torture).

[TBayXXXVII 2,635]

The ONLY problem I have with atheists is that they are very arrogant and condescending.  If you say anything about religion, they discount anything you have to say.  I can't prove God exists... and you can't prove he doesn't.  I don't believe he does, but I certainly don't think less of people who do.  Atheists... do.

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

You must have got your feelings hurt then?  

Just pointing out hypocrisy at its best. And it worked. You are the biggest contributor:

[nospk 230]

I am guessing the creator is not a whom but is a what and it seems like this is more about a fear of atheism as it relates to communism 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,879]

6 minutes ago, Horseman said:

No, I don't want to compare them.  They are all crap.

No, one is a lot worse than the other. The whack job Christians tell gay people they will go to hell (the Catholic Church does not anymore) when they die. Islamists following the Koran take the when part out of it and insert the now. Pretty big difference. If a Christian kills a gay person for being gay, they are going against Christianity. If a Muslim does he’s adhering to Islam. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, nospk said:

I am guessing the creator is not a whom but is a what and it seems like this is more about a fear of atheism as it relates to communism 

No. It's just a historical fact. What are you reading into on that? Fear of atheism?