Biden's 401k changes

[Strike 3,975]

- Don't have much of an opinion at this point on the change to 26%.  Would have to think about it more and see more details.  Might be ok with it.

- Don't like that he wants to make it refundable.  I hate refundable tax credits.

- Would have to hear more details on the "automatic 401k".  This sounds like just another way for the government to be in control of more of people's money which translates to more in control of those people.  We already have SS FFS. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Instead of critical race theory classes to teach people to hate America they should create more classes on teaching people how money works and how to save.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

6 hours ago, Alias Detective said:

What’s her webpage?

I'm not allowed to give it out, if you can believe it.  I signed an NDA with her agency.  I can't drive her car.  I can't use her weights.  I'm not allowed to give out any personal information of any kind on social media.  This counts.  I asked.    This is all I am allowed to give you... if you go to this website (it's safe), you will see her.  To help narrow the field, I can tell you that she does not have fake boobs and she's short.  I could tell you her hair color, but it's different in a couple of those pictures as they are with most of the girls, so that won't do you any good.

After she retires, I can give you anything you want, including her (our), address.  Until then, I can't give out anything.  Only 16 months to go.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,647]

A bunch of working stiffs all aflutter over a few thousand in their 401k. And they laugh.  The ones on top paid about as much attention to this as they did when they blew their nose this morning. Think they care? Their taxes aren’t going up. Even after they get done flooding this country with millions of foreigners. They aren’t paying for it. Quite the opposite. They are gonna make a killing on all these new customers, cheaper employees and tenants. You get to pay for it.  Sonny was right. The working man is a sucker. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,647]

We ain’t in this together. 

[MLCKAA 395]

 I have to say that I don’t know WTF  this article or any of you people are talking about. I have done my own taxes for 25 years and I am not aware of this so-called 401(k) “deduction.”   Is this just some kind of loose terminology to denote the contributions are pretax? 

What am I missing here? I’m looking at a form 1040 schedule one right now.

We made 190,000 in 2019 and 203,000 in 2020. I’ve always itemized deductions until Trump increased the standard deduction to 24,000.

[Strike 3,975]

4 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

 I have to say that I don’t know WTF  this article or any of you people are talking about. I have done my own taxes for 25 years and I am not aware of this so-called 401(k) “deduction.”   Is this just some kind of loose terminology to denote the contributions are pretax? 

What am I missing here? I’m looking at a form 1040 schedule one right now.

We made 190,000 in 2019 and 203,000 in 2020. I’ve always itemized deductions until Trump increased the standard deduction to 24,000.

Did you read the article?  I'll quote one sentence from it for you:

Quote

If the Biden 401(k) plan were to become law, the tax deduction for contributing to a 401(k) would be replaced with a tax credit.

Key word:  REPLACE.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,647]

Pakistan needs money too. 

[porkbutt 861]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

Did you read the article?  I'll quote one sentence from it for you:

Key word:  REPLACE.

 

so basically they want the taxes up front and hopefully you mess up your taxes and don't take credit and then you double up on taxes when you take distributions

[KSB2424 3,083]

Dumb

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

25 minutes ago, porkbutt said:

speaking of...my 401k is kicking so much ass...i might take a distribution because i think right now under covid rules you can without 10% penalty and pay the taxes over 3 years. just feel like buying myself something

Wait, seriously? Mine is doing well right now, too. 

[KSB2424 3,083]

1 hour ago, Gladiators said:

More complication and I think it's unnecessary.

End of Thread

[porkbutt 861]

2 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Wait, seriously? Mine is doing well right now, too. 

yes. definitely was the case under CARES act that ended 12/31. but i think new stimulus bill has it in there too. there might be some rules that you need to show financial hardship or be in certain zones. no penalty...just need to pay taxes on it and can spread over 3 years.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,647]

1 hour ago, Gladiators said:

More complication and I think it's unnecessary.

Complications favor the connected. 

[KSB2424 3,083]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Complications favor the connected. 

Bingo, it’s like taxes.  

[MLCKAA 395]

12 minutes ago, Strike said:

Did you read the article?  I'll quote one sentence from it for you:

Key word:  REPLACE.

 

Yes.  Me comprendo English.

I’m trying to tell you CPAs and financiers that I have never used or heard of a DEDUCTION for this in the past.

 What is being deducted? Is it contributions? My contributions are already put into my account pretax. I’m asking if you geniuses are using the word deduction as a substitution for the term pretax.

[DonS 3,067]

1 hour ago, TheNewGirl said:

Shh!!!!!! Now everyone will want the link. 

Http://TNGsNastyGermanScatPorn.com

 

[nospk 230]

19 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

Yes.  Me comprendo English.

I’m trying to tell you CPAs and financiers that I have never used or heard of a DEDUCTION for this in the past.

 What is being deducted? Is it contributions? My contributions are already put into my account pretax. I’m asking if you geniuses are using the word deduction as a substitution for the term pretax.

It was never there in the past. This will change it in the future for the first time ever. Deduction must mean the pre-tax break we now have

[Strike 3,975]

6 minutes ago, nospk said:

It was never there in the past. This will change it in the future for the first time ever. Deduction must mean the pre-tax break we now have

Yep.  Currently your contributions are pretax so you're getting the tax break of whatever your tax bracket is.  This is an attempt to equalize that.

[Strike 3,975]

25 minutes ago, DonS said:

Http://TNGsNastyGermanScatPorn.com

 

Thanks Joneo 

[nobody 2,040]

37 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

Yes.  Me comprendo English.

I’m trying to tell you CPAs and financiers that I have never used or heard of a DEDUCTION for this in the past.

 What is being deducted? Is it contributions? My contributions are already put into my account pretax. I’m asking if you geniuses are using the word deduction as a substitution for the term pretax.

It is a deduction.  The deduction is just applied in your paycheck as opposed to you having to take the deduction at the end of the year.

[nobody 2,040]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

A bunch of working stiffs all aflutter over a few thousand in their 401k. And they laugh.  The ones on top paid about as much attention to this as they did when they blew their nose this morning. Think they care? Their taxes aren’t going up. Even after they get done flooding this country with millions of foreigners. They aren’t paying for it. Quite the opposite. They are gonna make a killing on all these new customers, cheaper employees and tenants. You get to pay for it.  Sonny was right. The working man is a sucker. 

Most people will probably pay less in taxes by a decent amount.  It's the people like me in the middle between the 1% and the working stiffs that always seem to take the shrapnel.  First obamacare got me and now Biden is getting me.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

42 minutes ago, MLCKAA said:

Yes.  Me comprendo English.

I’m trying to tell you CPAs and financiers that I have never used or heard of a DEDUCTION for this in the past.

 What is being deducted? Is it contributions? My contributions are already put into my account pretax. I’m asking if you geniuses are using the word deduction as a substitution for the term pretax.

The money you contribute to your 401k does not show up as taxable wages in your W2. If this change happens, it will be in there.

[bandrus1 413]

8 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

The money you contribute to your 401k does not show up as taxable wages in your W2. If this change happens, it will be in there.

So it would be taxed twice? As initial income and again at distribution?

[nobody 2,040]

3 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

So it would be taxed twice? As initial income and again at distribution?

You would have to claim the credit at the end of the year.

[Strike 3,975]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

You would have to claim the credit at the end of the year.

Presumably you could adjust your withholding so it's not withheld.

[nobody 2,040]

23 minutes ago, nobody said:

Most people will probably pay less in taxes by a decent amount.

My back of the envelope calculations reveal this is simply a wealth distribution.

Assumptions:

1. Total tax paying population: 150 million
2. Percentage of tax paying population paying greater than 26%: 10%
3. Average salary of people paying under 26%: $68k
4. Average tax rate of people paying under 26%: 20%

My math says the government will collect 18 billion more from people in higher tax brackets and will collect about 22 billion less from people paying under 26%.

That equates to about $168 dollars per year extra for the average person making less than $163k and paying an average of $1200 more for people making above $163k.

Wealth distribution that won't do sh¡t.  Here's your 15 bucks a month plebs...

The problem with these wealth distribution schemes is the people that need it don't pay taxes anyway so giving them beefier credits does absolutely nothing.  The math just doesn't work.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 hour ago, bandrus1 said:

So it would be taxed twice? As initial income and again at distribution?

No, you get a credit on the initial investment. Only taxed at distribution.

[dogcows 1,029]

4 hours ago, cmh6476 said:

I'm not diving in deep enough to fully understand what is being proposed here.  But I can tell you from the perspective of working for a social service, hunger-relief organization we serve way too many elderly and people who have worked their entire lives.  The misconception is that people are lazy and should be working and could better help themselves, but the reality is that the majority of who we serve did work most of their life and just didn't save enough, or had a life event that eliminated their savings causing them to rely on public assistance and support from non-profits.

I have long advocated for changes to encourage more saving while working.  We only offer a SIMPLE IRA and 100% match up to 3% of salary of employee contributions, but there needs to be more incentive for more people to save more.  I need to personally save more.  Some people here don't even contribute the 3% to take advantage of money the company is offering them.  Something needs to change.

Used to be a time where companies would give you a pension... those days are long gone for most jobs. Funny, when unions went belly-up, so did the pensions. Sure, some union bosses got fat, and some unions got out of control, but when the labor force was mostly unionized, people made good money for a day’s work and got a retirement not dependent on the whims of the stock market like the 401(k).... 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,647]

34 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Used to be a time where companies would give you a pension... those days are long gone for most jobs. Funny, when unions went belly-up, so did the pensions. Sure, some union bosses got fat, and some unions got out of control, but when the labor force was mostly unionized, people made good money for a day’s work and got a retirement not dependent on the whims of the stock market like the 401(k).... 

Gonna cry? 

[nobody 2,040]

I noticed everyone stopped complaining when I mentioned this will probably cut everyone's taxes a little bit.

[Gladiators 1,904]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

I noticed everyone stopped complaining when I mentioned this will probably cut everyone's taxes a little bit.

Not me. 

I'll be fine.

I don't like the complexity it'll add, but we'll get through it.

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

7 hours ago, nobody said:

Most people will probably pay less in taxes by a decent amount.  It's the people like me in the middle between the 1% and the working stiffs that always seem to take the shrapnel.  First obamacare got me and now Biden is getting me.

Hmmm...it’s like these two guys have something in common...

[JustinCharge 2,397]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:38 AM, cmh6476 said:

I'm not diving in deep enough to fully understand what is being proposed here.  But I can tell you from the perspective of working for a social service, hunger-relief organization we serve way too many elderly and people who have worked their entire lives.  The misconception is that people are lazy and should be working and could better help themselves, but the reality is that the majority of who we serve did work most of their life and just didn't save enough, or had a life event that eliminated their savings causing them to rely on public assistance and support from non-profits.

I have long advocated for changes to encourage more saving while working.  We only offer a SIMPLE IRA and 100% match up to 3% of salary of employee contributions, but there needs to be more incentive for more people to save more.  I need to personally save more.  Some people here don't even contribute the 3% to take advantage of money the company is offering them.  Something needs to change.

One one hand, I feel sympathy. 

But on the other hand, I hear grown adults CONSTANTLY bash math and math skills.  They talk about how they are dumb at math and wear it like a badge of honor.  They look down on people good at math as nerds.  They do this their entire life.  But managing money requires strong math skills.  Then they hit retirement and realize they can't make it because they didn't understand math well enough to manage their money.  Then they wind up at some soup kitchen.  Those types of people are getting what they deserve.

What needs to change is this perception that math is uncool and sucks.

Even if your math skills suck, develop strong social skills instead.  Use those skills to build a community that takes care of its elderly members. 

If you want to be grumpy, antisocial, with bad math skills, and wind up broke in a soup kitchen, well what did you waste your life on?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I feel pretty lucky. My I get $11/hour put into my 401k regardless of how much I put in. Though the reasoning is so that they can eliminate the pension and solely go through a 401k for our retirement.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,647]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:10 PM, nobody said:

I noticed everyone stopped complaining when I mentioned this will probably cut everyone's taxes a little bit.

The wrong group of people are having their taxes raised.  

[nobody 2,040]

This will be about a 2% tax increase for me and I'm definitely not making over $400k.  Biden seems like Obama Jr.  Just lie to get what you want knowing no one will do anything about it.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

56 minutes ago, nobody said:

This will be about a 2% tax increase for me and I'm definitely not making over $400k.  Biden seems like Obama Jr.  Just lie to get what you want knowing no one will do anything about it.

How can it be that much? Remember, you have a cap on the amount you can put in and there are graduated tax rates.

Maybe if you say it will cause 2% more on $19,500.

[nobody 2,040]

Because it's going to cost me $1200.  I paid 76k in taxes last year.  If this goes through, I'm going to be paying 77.2k.  I guess it's 1.6% if you want to nitpick it.

[nobody 2,040]

Like I said.  These moves don't hurt the guys they're trying to hurt, and it doesn't help the people they think it will help.  It just hurts the guys like me in the middle.