What do vaccinated people think?

[jerryskids 5,206]

2 hours ago, TimHauck said:

I’ll agree with this that her scenario didn’t really make sense, and she was pandering which I already stated.  But she didn’t say she wasn’t going to take it.

There was a dem running for senate in NC that said he’d be hesitant to take it though.  He lost (probably also partly due to his cheating scandal with the wife of an army veteran).

She said she wouldn't take it in a political, plausible deniability sorta way.  Kinda like Tucker Carlson doesn't necessarily come out and say to do or don't do something, but he asks a lot of questions which lead the audience to his conclusion.  I can see why the Left hates him, he's quite annoying that way.  Although I find I generally agree with him so I find it more amusing than anything.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

She said she wouldn't take it in a political, plausible deniability sorta way.  Kinda like Tucker Carlson doesn't necessarily come out and say to do or don't do something, but he asks a lot of questions which lead the audience to his conclusion.  I can see why the Left hates him, he's quite annoying that way.  Although I find I generally agree with him so I find it more amusing than anything.

She said something stupid, which is par for her course and why you don't hear a peep from her these days.  She's a moron who was trying to be political and divisive during a pandemic.  She should have recanted and anyone trying to clarify her statement would be wise the shut up.

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

20 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Impossible. The Bronx didn’t vote for Trump. Probably the lowest rate in the country.  At least NY. 

I agree; the African American community is among the lowest in vaccination rates from what I've read. 

CA is blue and has about 55% fully vaxxed. That doesn't match with the "voting" stuff that people are equating non-vaxxers to. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

3 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

I agree; the African American community is among the lowest in vaccination rates from what I've read. 

CA is blue and has about 55% fully vaxxed. That doesn't match with the "voting" stuff that people are equating non-vaxxers to. 

And still they try.  One word of advice I pass on to young people is once someone is trying to sell you something or convince you of something and you hear the percentages being brought into it, assume you are being misled. Not always of course, but often. 

[MDC 5,892]

States ranked by % of the population who are vaccinated.

Lot of factors go into this. For example you’d expect more rural states to have lower rates since their risk is lower. But people in red states are less likely to be vaccinated and that’s backed by polling if Dems vs Reps. 

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

53 minutes ago, MDC said:

States ranked by % of the population who are vaccinated.

Lot of factors go into this. For example you’d expect more rural states to have lower rates since their risk is lower. But people in red states are less likely to be vaccinated and that’s backed by polling if Dems vs Reps. 

Aren't more rural states red? So are they not getting vaccinated due to being Reps, or due to being rural and having lower infection rates? 

Why is CA still sitting at only 55% vaccinated, when it's mostly blue? 

Vermont is tiny and still only at 67%, wasn't the goal like 90% vaccinated by June or something? 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

Lol

[MDC 5,892]

39 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Aren't more rural states red? So are they not getting vaccinated due to being Reps, or due to being rural and having lower infection rates? 

Why is CA still sitting at only 55% vaccinated, when it's mostly blue? 

Vermont is tiny and still only at 67%, wasn't the goal like 90% vaccinated by June or something? 

Rural vs urban probably makes a difference but polls consistently show Republicans are less likely to get vaccinated outside of their location. And Vermont is one of the most rural / least populist states in the country. Maine is rural too.

[TimHauck 1,801]

11 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

Aren't more rural states red? So are they not getting vaccinated due to being Reps, or due to being rural and having lower infection rates? 

Why is CA still sitting at only 55% vaccinated, when it's mostly blue? 

Vermont is tiny and still only at 67%, wasn't the goal like 90% vaccinated by June or something? 

I'd say it's a myth that rural areas have lower infection/death rates though.     Mississippi, Alabama and South Dakota are among the highest states in deaths/million, and both Dakotas, Arkansas, Utah are among the highest in cases/million.

Keep in mind those %'s are of the total population.   Vermont is over 80% of the 12+ population (and I'm sure even higher among 18+) - https://www.healthvermont.gov/covid-19/vaccine/covid-19-vaccine-dashboard

55% for CA could definitely be improved on but it's still in the top 15 or so among states.   And I don't think anyone is claiming all minorities are getting vaccinated, but Republicans aren't either, and especially when you get away from %'s which is exactly what HT recommended, there are way more Republicans not vaccinated than minorities not vaccinated.

[penultimatestraw 473]

On 8/14/2021 at 4:39 AM, joneo said:

1.  Do vaccinated people believe they can't spread the virus? Do they believe unvaccinated people are the only ones that can spread it? 

2.  I've heard people saying you need to get vaccinated to protect the unvaccinated children....you know..the age group least affected by the virus. 

3.  Do vaccinated people think that an unregulated vaccine is protecting them better than someone who contracted the virus and built natural immunities? 

1. Before delta, they might have, but I think most people have come to realize delta replicates more rapidly, is more transmissible +/- virulent. Unvaccinated people have greater potential to spread infection, by virtue of their higher likelihood of being symptomatic, and longer duration of viral carriage.

2. It's not wrong to want to protect children, whose individual risk is admittedly low (but not zero), as they can serve as vectors for spreading covid-19. The better reasons to get vaccinated are to protect people vulnerable to severe disease (including people with impaired immune systems, incomplete/waning immunity from prior infection/vaccination and those unable to be vaccinated ) + limiting the viral pool available to mutate - the latter goal is especially problematic considering poor vaccine coverage worldwide, but we have to start somewhere.

3. As others have explained, the vaccine is regulated and extensively tested, with ongoing investigation of potential late adverse effects. So far serious AEs appear vanishing rare, and there is no precedent nor scientific plausibility for a delayed, widespread and serious vaccine AE to offset the risk covid poses right now, and for the foreseeable future. 

But yes, the mRNA vaccines appear to induce a more specific and durable immune response than acquired through natural infection. Vaccine-derived antibodies occur in higher levels than we see following recovery from covid, and breakthrough infection happens less after the vaccines.

One last thing. Although herd immunity is unlikely, it's not impossible, even with animal reservoirs for the virus. But the number of people vaccinated + infected has to exceed 90+% of the population. We've achieved that number for many childhood diseases, due to compulsory vaccine coverage. So it is possible, if we get our collective heads out of our a$$es, and stop the politicization/misinformation surrounding vaccination.

[kutulu 1,547]

Wife just tested positive for the covid and was vaccinated.

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

8 minutes ago, kutulu said:

Wife just tested positive for the covid and was vaccinated.

How is she feeling? Hopefully the vaccine limits the severity. 

[kutulu 1,547]

2 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

How is she feeling? Hopefully the vaccine limits the severity. 

She's been feeling pretty sick for the last 5 days or so. Thought it was the flu.  She tends to pick up whatever is going around so didn't think it was the covid. The rapid test came back negative but she just received the other test and got the positive result. 

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

2 minutes ago, kutulu said:

She's been feeling pretty sick for the last 5 days or so. Thought it was the flu.  She tends to pick up whatever is going around so didn't think it was the covid. The rapid test came back negative but she just received the other test and got the positive result. 

You are vaccinated and have not caught it from her?

 

[kutulu 1,547]

8 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

You are vaccinated and have not caught it from her?

 

Yes and not sure. Don't feel sick but wasn't tested, yet anyway.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

8 minutes ago, kutulu said:

Yes and not sure. Don't feel sick but wasn't tested, yet anyway.

Good luck and hopefully your wife starts feeling better shortly.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

23 minutes ago, kutulu said:

Yes and not sure. Don't feel sick but wasn't tested, yet anyway.

You might want to get tested, just as a precautionary thing

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

You might want to get tested, just as a precautionary thing

 

I would not, at this point he knows if he gets sick he has covid and if he does not get sick then his vaccine worked. I do not see the benefit to testing in this scenario.

[jerryskids 5,206]

1 hour ago, penultimatestraw said:

1. Before delta, they might have, but I think most people have come to realize delta replicates more rapidly, is more transmissible +/- virulent. Unvaccinated people have greater potential to spread infection, by virtue of their higher likelihood of being symptomatic, and longer duration of viral carriage.

2. It's not wrong to want to protect children, whose individual risk is admittedly low (but not zero), as they can serve as vectors for spreading covid-19. The better reasons to get vaccinated are to protect people vulnerable to severe disease (including people with impaired immune systems, incomplete/waning immunity from prior infection/vaccination and those unable to be vaccinated ) + limiting the viral pool available to mutate - the latter goal is especially problematic considering poor vaccine coverage worldwide, but we have to start somewhere.

3. As others have explained, the vaccine is regulated and extensively tested, with ongoing investigation of potential late adverse effects. So far serious AEs appear vanishing rare, and there is no precedent nor scientific plausibility for a delayed, widespread and serious vaccine AE to offset the risk covid poses right now, and for the foreseeable future. 

But yes, the mRNA vaccines appear to induce a more specific and durable immune response than acquired through natural infection. Vaccine-derived antibodies occur in higher levels than we see following recovery from covid, and breakthrough infection happens less after the vaccines.

One last thing. Although herd immunity is unlikely, it's not impossible, even with animal reservoirs for the virus. But the number of people vaccinated + infected has to exceed 90+% of the population. We've achieved that number for many childhood diseases, due to compulsory vaccine coverage. So it is possible, if we get our collective heads out of our a$$es, and stop the politicization/misinformation surrounding vaccination.

A few responses, keeping to your numbers:

2. I agree that the primary value of generating immunity in children is to protect the adults who are at risk, and I presume that this is the argument the teachers' unions are using to avoid classroom teaching.  It also helps accelerate herd immunity, although so would children getting Covid. But your statement reminds me of our gun death discussions where you slip in the suicides with an otherwise gun violence discussion.  

3. I did not realize that the vaccine is actually stronger, thanks for the info.  Do you have a link for that?  I'm not doubting you, just looking to read up on it.  That being said, IMO we'll never hit herd immunity for the reasons I stated earlier and I believe we discussed:  it would be based on somewhat arbitrary numbers, and the powers that be seem to want to keep us under their thumbs.

Until we know better, I still say we leave the children, pregnant, maybe pregnant, and nursing people alone.  Like we do with pretty much every drug when it comes out, until we've shown that it is safe.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

29 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

I would not, at this point he knows if he gets sick he has covid and if he does not get sick then his vaccine worked. I do not see the benefit to testing in this scenario.

Not spreading it, mainly

[penultimatestraw 473]

16 hours ago, jerryskids said:

A few responses, keeping to your numbers:

2. I agree that the primary value of generating immunity in children is to protect the adults who are at risk, and I presume that this is the argument the teachers' unions are using to avoid classroom teaching.  It also helps accelerate herd immunity, although so would children getting Covid. But your statement reminds me of our gun death discussions where you slip in the suicides with an otherwise gun violence discussion.  

3. I did not realize that the vaccine is actually stronger, thanks for the info.  Do you have a link for that?  I'm not doubting you, just looking to read up on it.  That being said, IMO we'll never hit herd immunity for the reasons I stated earlier and I believe we discussed:  it would be based on somewhat arbitrary numbers, and the powers that be seem to want to keep us under their thumbs.

Until we know better, I still say we leave the children, pregnant, maybe pregnant, and nursing people alone.  Like we do with pretty much every drug when it comes out, until we've shown that it is safe.

2. Vaccination promotes immunity more safely, and more rapidly than waiting for people (including kids) to get covid the old-fashioned way. Even with maldistribution and resistance to vaccines, 4.76 billion doses have been administered - that's far more than even the most pessimistic estimate of covid-19 cases. 

Not interested in revisiting gun control, but it's pretty bizarre to ignore the largest segment of firearm-related deaths when discussing the topic.

3. Here's a few links which show higher antibody levels among vaccinated people, rates of reinfection  in those with natural immunity (pre-delta), a comparison of infection risk in those with natural vs. vaccine-derived immunity, and a couple of summaries explaining the differences between vaccination and immunity following infection.

Because of delta, herd immunity is certainly a long-shot. I agree we won't achieve it globally, but local control is certainly possible through a combination of vaccination + natural immunity. And to clarify, herd immunity is not synonymous with disease eradication, which definitely ain't happening for a very long time, if ever, animal reservoir or not.

Regardless, if people want a return to normalcy, vaccines are the way to go. 

As an aside, the herd immunity threshold isn't arbitrary; it's derived from the virus' basic reproduction number, R0. The simplified formula is 1 - 1/R0. So with the original SARS-CoV-2 (R0 between 2 and 3), we needed 50-67% of the population to be immune to curtail spread. Delta's R0 is more like 8-10, so 88-90% of a population must be vaccinated/previously infected with adequate antibody response for covid to peter out.

[jerryskids 5,206]

7 hours ago, penultimatestraw said:

2. Vaccination promotes immunity more safely, and more rapidly than waiting for people (including kids) to get covid the old-fashioned way. Even with maldistribution and resistance to vaccines, 4.76 billion doses have been administered - that's far more than even the most pessimistic estimate of covid-19 cases. 

Not interested in revisiting gun control, but it's pretty bizarre to ignore the largest segment of firearm-related deaths when discussing the topic.

3. Here's a few links which show higher antibody levels among vaccinated people, rates of reinfection  in those with natural immunity (pre-delta), a comparison of infection risk in those with natural vs. vaccine-derived immunity, and a couple of summaries explaining the differences between vaccination and immunity following infection.

Because of delta, herd immunity is certainly a long-shot. I agree we won't achieve it globally, but local control is certainly possible through a combination of vaccination + natural immunity. And to clarify, herd immunity is not synonymous with disease eradication, which definitely ain't happening for a very long time, if ever, animal reservoir or not.

Regardless, if people want a return to normalcy, vaccines are the way to go. 

As an aside, the herd immunity threshold isn't arbitrary; it's derived from the virus' basic reproduction number, R0. The simplified formula is 1 - 1/R0. So with the original SARS-CoV-2 (R0 between 2 and 3), we needed 50-67% of the population to be immune to curtail spread. Delta's R0 is more like 8-10, so 88-90% of a population must be vaccinated/previously infected with adequate antibody response for covid to peter out.

Thanks, lots of good data.   Sorry about the confusion regarding gun control, I wasn't trying to bring it back, rather I was trying to show a comparison.  Anyway, do I read this to mean that you advocate immunizing the children regardless of age?

Regarding herd immunity, the formula is not arbitrary of course, but the R0 to some extent is, as is the counting of those immunized.  Nevertheless if the bogey is now 90-ish percent, and that is for the entire population, that's not happening.  And the rate of vaccination in the US is not getting us anywhere near there.  So we seem to be putting in draconian measures like masking children for a miniscule improvement in "ripping off the band aid" of Covid working its way through us.

[penultimatestraw 473]

7 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Thanks, lots of good data.   Sorry about the confusion regarding gun control, I wasn't trying to bring it back, rather I was trying to show a comparison.  Anyway, do I read this to mean that you advocate immunizing the children regardless of age?

Regarding herd immunity, the formula is not arbitrary of course, but the R0 to some extent is, as is the counting of those immunized.  Nevertheless if the bogey is now 90-ish percent, and that is for the entire population, that's not happening.  And the rate of vaccination in the US is not getting us anywhere near there.  So we seem to be putting in draconian measures like masking children for a miniscule improvement in "ripping off the band aid" of Covid working its way through us.

Gun to my head, I think all kids should be immunized, with the caveat I've not looked at safety data for really young children. Same goes for pregnant +/- breastfeeding women, where I linked some info in the other thread.

People are so damn histrionic about masking. In my (limited) experience, kids don't mind at all, and are better than adults at remembering to wear them. Granted, these are children of physicians in the 8-14 year old age group. Little kids and teenagers would surely be tougher. I agree prolonged remote schooling is impractical and potentially harmful, though I also believe children are far more resilient than people think, and a lot of the "concerns" are related to parental burnout.

Even without "ripping off the band aid", hospitals are getting overwhelmed - this includes Hawaii, where we've been pretty restrictive throughout the pandemic. In no shape or form should we ease off restrictions now, and I think there's a good argument we should ramp things back up until through the delta surge.

[jerryskids 5,206]

10 minutes ago, penultimatestraw said:

Gun to my head, I think all kids should be immunized, with the caveat I've not looked at safety data for really young children. Same goes for pregnant +/- breastfeeding women, where I linked some info in the other thread.

People are so damn histrionic about masking. In my (limited) experience, kids don't mind at all, and are better than adults at remembering to wear them. Granted, these are children of physicians in the 8-14 year old age group. Little kids and teenagers would surely be tougher. I agree prolonged remote schooling is impractical and potentially harmful, though I also believe children are far more resilient than people think, and a lot of the "concerns" are related to parental burnout.

Even without "ripping off the band aid", hospitals are getting overwhelmed - this includes Hawaii, where we've been pretty restrictive throughout the pandemic. In no shape or form should we ease off restrictions now, and I think there's a good argument we should ramp things back up until through the delta surge.

I'm not talking about kids complaining or obeying.  I think you significantly underestimate the potential impact from the reduction of social development from masks. 

Also I googled Hawaii intensive care capacity, this came up from late July:

Quote

The state is using hos­pital capacity to decide whether more restrictions are necessary as the number of COVID-19 hospitalizations continue to increase.

Gov. David Ige expressed his concerns about the uptick in COVID-19 hospital­izations to the Honolulu Star-Advertiser’s Spotlight Hawaii livestream show Monday.

“We were doing so well,” Ige said. “The number of COVID patients in hospitals and ICUs all across the state was very, very low at the beginning of this eight- or nine-day spread,” he said.

“But we’ve seen a significant increase in the number of cases now that are in hospitals and that require intensive care and ventilators.”

Over the weekend the number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients increased to 90 from 74, and the number of people on ventilators nearly doubled.

ICU capacity statewide is at about 58%. However, Hawaii County is using the highest capacity of ICU beds and is at 75% capacity — although only two out of the 18 used beds are for COVID-19 cases.

Wait, what?!  Aside from the obvious problem of only 2 beds being used for Covid, there are only 24 total beds which I presume has a wide variation of usage independent of Covid.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/07/27/hawaii-news/hawaii-hospital-capacity-leading-factor-in-reimposing-restrictions/

Help me understand how this data leads to sound policy.

[penultimatestraw 473]

44 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I'm not talking about kids complaining or obeying.  I think you significantly underestimate the potential impact from the reduction of social development from masks. 

Also I googled Hawaii intensive care capacity, this came up from late July:

Wait, what?!  Aside from the obvious problem of only 2 beds being used for Covid, there are only 24 total beds which I presume has a wide variation of usage independent of Covid.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/07/27/hawaii-news/hawaii-hospital-capacity-leading-factor-in-reimposing-restrictions/

Help me understand how this data leads to sound policy.

Jerry, we have almost no ICU beds in my hospital right now (ie. 97% ICU capacity, 104% elsewhere...today, not late July - 100+ COVID patients in the hospital). They are "creating" ICU beds in places not designed for that purpose, just in case someone already admitted crashes and needs intensive care. Every hospital on Oahu, TMK, is in a similar predicament, and we're rotating accepting patients arriving by ambulance, as every ER is on divert (too many occupied beds to accept new patients).

I've been a physician here for nearly two decades, and I've never seen anything like this, including earlier in the pandemic. A tent has be re-erected to help with overflow, we're cancelling elective procedures again and our ICU staff is refusing to accept critically ill transfers, because they're so swamped with covid patients. 

All that is far worse than the potential for kids to be socially delayed by masks. 

[shorepatrol 1,737]

6 minutes ago, penultimatestraw said:

 

All that is far worse than the potential for kids to be socially delayed by masks. 

Bullsh!t. 

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

11 minutes ago, penultimatestraw said:

Jerry, we have almost no ICU beds in my hospital right now (ie. 97% ICU capacity, 104% elsewhere...today, not late July - 100+ COVID patients in the hospital). They are "creating" ICU beds in places not designed for that purpose, just in case someone already admitted crashes and needs intensive care. Every hospital on Oahu, TMK, is in a similar predicament, and we're rotating accepting patients arriving by ambulance, as every ER is on divert (too many occupied beds to accept new patients).

I've been a physician here for nearly two decades, and I've never seen anything like this, including earlier in the pandemic. A tent has be re-erected to help with overflow, we're cancelling elective procedures again and our ICU staff is refusing to accept critically ill transfers, because they're so swamped with covid patients. 

All that is far worse than the potential for kids to be socially delayed by masks. 

One of my wife's friends went into the hospital in the Philippines to give birth via c-section. Contracted covid in the hospital, started having seizures and three cardiac arrests. The third one killed her. Now her husband gets to take a newborn home alone, and grieving. Sad as fock. She wasn't vaxed, of course, having been pregnant. 

[TimHauck 1,801]

1 hour ago, penultimatestraw said:

Gun to my head, I think all kids should be immunized, with the caveat I've not looked at safety data for really young children. Same goes for pregnant +/- breastfeeding women, where I linked some info in the other thread.

People are so damn histrionic about masking. In my (limited) experience, kids don't mind at all, and are better than adults at remembering to wear them. Granted, these are children of physicians in the 8-14 year old age group. Little kids and teenagers would surely be tougher. I agree prolonged remote schooling is impractical and potentially harmful, though I also believe children are far more resilient than people think, and a lot of the "concerns" are related to parental burnout.

Even without "ripping off the band aid", hospitals are getting overwhelmed - this includes Hawaii, where we've been pretty restrictive throughout the pandemic. In no shape or form should we ease off restrictions now, and I think there's a good argument we should ramp things back up until through the delta surge.

You really think we should be putting in restrictions now?  No way.   I’m good with masks and even vaccine requirements, but  no reason for anything other than that IMO.

[penultimatestraw 473]

11 hours ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

One of my wife's friends went into the hospital in the Philippines to give birth via c-section. Contracted covid in the hospital, started having seizures and three cardiac arrests. The third one killed her. Now her husband gets to take a newborn home alone, and grieving. Sad as fock. She wasn't vaxed, of course, having been pregnant. 

No idea what standards they adhere to in the Philippines, but pregnancy isn't a contraindication to vaccination.

[penultimatestraw 473]

11 hours ago, TimHauck said:

You really think we should be putting in restrictions now?  No way.   I’m good with masks and even vaccine requirements, but  no reason for anything other than that IMO.

You might think differently after working a few shifts in a hospital that's hard hit by covid.

But it doesn't really matter, as I highly doubt we'll go down that path again.

Definitely on board with gentle encouragement to get more people vaccinated.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

11 minutes ago, penultimatestraw said:

No idea what standards they adhere to in the Philippines, but pregnancy isn't a contraindication to vaccination.

I don't know either way, as I can't get pregnant and if my wife does, it ain't mine.

My wife seemed to think that though.

Filipinos generally won't go to the doctor. Ever. They'll go to a priest first.  

I asked my wife a few months ago when her last pap smear and mammogram was, and she said she's never been to a gyno,  so I made her.

The hospitals there are getting crushed. In cebu,  the second largest city, people are sitting outside in their cars with oxygen masks sitting on the curb because they can't get inside.

Manila has pretty much been on perpetual lockdown. They even banned alcohol sales for a long time. 

[TimHauck 1,801]

49 minutes ago, penultimatestraw said:

You might think differently after working a few shifts in a hospital that's hard hit by covid.

But it doesn't really matter, as I highly doubt we'll go down that path again.

Definitely on board with gentle encouragement to get more people vaccinated.

Serious question, why does it seem that so many nurses (not the majority obviously, but more than I'd expect for the people that have been on the front lines of this for a year and a half) are opposed to taking the vaccine themselves?

[Hawkeye21 1,854]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Serious question, why does it seem that so many nurses (not the majority obviously, but more than I'd expect for the people that have been on the front lines of this for a year and a half) are opposed to taking the vaccine themselves?

My guess is because they've been in the middle of it for over a year now without having a vaccine, why should they be forced to take it now?  They should be the most immune people to the virus there is.  It's not hard to understand why people have trust issues with this vaccine.

[TimHauck 1,801]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

My guess is because they've been in the middle of it for over a year now without having a vaccine, why should they be forced to take it now?  They should be the most immune people to the virus there is.  It's not hard to understand why people have trust issues with this vaccine.

I don't necessarily think they should be mandated to take it, but I would've thought they'd be much more willing to volunteer to take it than the general public.    I could see some hesitation when it was first made available to them since they were in the first group, but by this point I don't see why they wouldn't particularly for those who haven't been infected (but yes if they've been infected that is a reason for not getting the vaccine).  I don't buy lod001's likely response of "BECAUSE THEY'VE SEEN THE SIDE EFFECTS" because doctors are among the highest % of people to have taken it.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

12 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Serious question, why does it seem that so many nurses (not the majority obviously, but more than I'd expect for the people that have been on the front lines of this for a year and a half) are opposed to taking the vaccine themselves?

Because many of them want to start a family. 

[TimHauck 1,801]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Because many of them want to start a family. 

Well for one there's no evidence that it has any impact on that, but are female nurses not taking it at a higher rate than male?  (honest question I have no idea)

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Well for one there's no evidence that it has any impact on that, but are female nurses not taking it at a higher rate than male?  (honest question I have no idea)

The vaccine has been out for 8 months. How could we possibly know? I’ll ask you again, would your wife if she was pregnant get it? 

[penultimatestraw 473]

18 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Serious question, why does it seem that so many nurses (not the majority obviously, but more than I'd expect for the people that have been on the front lines of this for a year and a half) are opposed to taking the vaccine themselves?

I'm sure the answer is multifactorial, but I'll answer your question with another: why are physicians overwhelmingly in favor of getting vaccinated? This includes plenty of frontline workers, and women of childbearing age.

And a couple more questions:

How much immunology, infectious disease and public health training does a typical nurse receive? What about interpretation of clinical data?

When you are looking for medical advice, do you prefer to ask a doctor or a nurse?

Nursing is an extremely challenging and noble profession, but there's little reason to believe they are adept at evidence-based clinical decisions.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

18 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Well for one there's no evidence that it has any impact on that, but are female nurses not taking it at a higher rate than male?  (honest question I have no idea)

Not much evidence it has much impact on covid either...

[Utilit99 4,099]

7 minutes ago, penultimatestraw said:

I'm sure the answer is multifactorial, but I'll answer your question with another: why are physicians overwhelmingly in favor of getting vaccinated? This includes plenty of frontline workers, and women of childbearing age.

And a couple more questions:

How much immunology, infectious disease and public health training does a typical nurse receive? What about interpretation of clinical data?

When you are looking for medical advice, do you prefer to ask a doctor or a nurse?

Nursing is an extremely challenging and noble profession, but there's little reason to believe they are adept at evidence-based clinical decisions.

They don't want the FDA to approve because they then would need to associate possible side effects every time they say you need to get the drug.