Saudi Golf Tour

[Reality 2,710]

 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Hahaha that’s awesome 

somewhere, rory sheds a tear even while celebrating a Ryder cup win  

[bostonlager 2,465]

Trades and free agency coming in 2024

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-player-trades-free-agency-relegation-2024-season-updates

[BiffTannen 651]

Jon Rahm apparently a done deal. $600 million 

[KSB2424 3,083]

Gross

[Fireballer 2,383]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:11 PM, BiffTannen said:

Jon Rahm apparently a done deal. $600 million 

Huge. I wonder how many LIV golfers will be on the next RC teams?  Does the OWGR become obsolete?  

 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

Dumb

[Cruzer 1,992]

I will miss watching him play…………………….. But for $600M, don’t see anyone here turning that down either. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

i have not paid too much attention to it lately but didn't jay boy make a deal with saudi/liv anyway? 

Gotta think at some point this all just becomes one golf league again.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:54 AM, Alias Detective said:

LIV is the best thing to happen to golf.  The PGA needed shaken up and that's just what is happening.

 

On 8/9/2022 at 11:54 AM, Alias Detective said:

Looks like Ive been right all along.  This is the best thing to happen to golf.

 

 

On 8/9/2022 at 12:09 PM, Alias Detective said:

 

American/Western League / National League = MLB

AFL / NFL = NFL

BAA / NBL = NBA

PGA / LIV = ????

[thegeneral 1,414]

As long as the majors have all the big  names the oil sheiks can burn all the money they like on this thing. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

11 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

As long as the majors have all the big  names the oil sheiks can burn all the money they like on this thing. 

yes and no.

Because of no OWGR points, and expiring exemptions, there are certain LIV golfers who can't or soon wont be able to play in every or any major.

Also there are other big time events that LIV guys can't currently play in or qualify for on their own like the Players, Match Play, Ryder Cup. Two of those are PGA Tour sanctioned events obviously but they lose appeal because of the divide. 

As i've mostly said all along, i'd rather none of this happened but the people acting like the PGA and the players who blindly stuck with the PGA are some sort of saints are oblivious. 

[BiffTannen 651]

6 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

yes and no.

Because of no OWGR points, and expiring exemptions, there are certain LIV golfers who can't or soon wont be able to play in every or any major.

Also there are other big time events that LIV guys can't currently play in or qualify for on their own like the Players, Match Play, Ryder Cup. Two of those are PGA Tour sanctioned events obviously but they lose appeal because of the divide. 

As i've mostly said all along, i'd rather none of this happened but the people acting like the PGA and the players who blindly stuck with the PGA are some sort of saints are oblivious. 

I thought match play was done. Did they work something out to add it back to the schedule?

[thegeneral 1,414]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

yes and no.

Because of no OWGR points, and expiring exemptions, there are certain LIV golfers who can't or soon wont be able to play in every or any major.

Also there are other big time events that LIV guys can't currently play in or qualify for on their own like the Players, Match Play, Ryder Cup. Two of those are PGA Tour sanctioned events obviously but they lose appeal because of the divide. 

As i've mostly said all along, i'd rather none of this happened but the people acting like the PGA and the players who blindly stuck with the PGA are some sort of saints are oblivious. 

For my viewing I guess we’ll see how it continues to play out. I didn’t notice much difference at all. Ryder Cup perhaps. 

Definitely won’t watch the LIV tour as it is now and don’t see how it gains traction. There’s only so many people who will even watch the sport at all. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

3 hours ago, BiffTannen said:

I thought match play was done. Did they work something out to add it back to the schedule?

No idea I just tossed out event names I enjoy watching and are usually popular. Guess they did axe it. 

[BiffTannen 651]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

No idea I just tossed out event names I enjoy watching and are usually popular. Guess they did axe it. 

EdEx is 10 of us next hear. Horseman dropped out. I think 10 is perfect with some events having less players. You cool with that or think we need to recruit someone?

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

For my viewing I guess we’ll see how it continues to play out. I didn’t notice much difference at all. Ryder Cup perhaps. 

Definitely won’t watch the LIV tour as it is now and don’t see how it gains traction. There’s only so many people who will even watch the sport at all. 

You’ll start to notice as certain big names lose their eligibility for certain majors. A lot of the big name LIV guys have lifelong masters exemptions or won a major recently though. 
 

LIV gains traction by doing what any new league does (last year was its first full season)… tweak to try and increase interest. 
but more importantly, buying talent. Naysayers were holding tight to the washed up veteran narrative but then guys like Dustin, Cam Smith and Niemann jumped ship. Now Rahm.  Add in guys who still have a following either here or overseas like Phil, Bubba, Reed, Sergio, Oosthuizen etc and the “talent” gap is quickly dwindling. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

2 minutes ago, BiffTannen said:

EdEx is 10 of us next hear. Horseman dropped out. I think 10 is perfect with some events having less players. You cool with that or think we need to recruit someone?

I think 10 is a nice even number

[thegeneral 1,414]

14 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

You’ll start to notice as certain big names lose their eligibility for certain majors. A lot of the big name LIV guys have lifelong masters exemptions or won a major recently though. 
 

LIV gains traction by doing what any new league does (last year was its first full season)… tweak to try and increase interest. 
but more importantly, buying talent. Naysayers were holding tight to the washed up veteran narrative but then guys like Dustin, Cam Smith and Niemann jumped ship. Now Rahm.  Add in guys who still have a following either here or overseas like Phil, Bubba, Reed, Sergio, Oosthuizen etc and the “talent” gap is quickly dwindling. 

For me they have to overcome the “XFL Factor” it just seems like a weird facsimile of what I have watched forever. They are acquiring a load of players, but for whatever reason I have no interest in watching. Also, really even know when it’s on. 

Anyone faulting players for taking this cash though is crazy. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

3 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

For me they have to overcome the “XFL Factor” it just seems like a weird facsimile of what I have watched forever. They are acquiring a load of players, but for whatever reason I have no interest in watching. Also, really even know when it’s on. 

Anyone faulting players for taking this cash though is crazy. 

The original XFL was supposed to be a competitive product to the NFL. It failed because it was gimmicky (although it gave us sky cam) but probably the biggest reason was they had no talent. Only a handful of XFL guys went on to make any sort of NFL impact. 

LIV doesn’t have that problem as it continues to acquire top level talent that golf fans care about. It has to be careful not to be too gimmicky (3 rounds, shotgun starts, teams, etc) but it’s not like we are talking strippers in the stands. If the team aspect ever achieves that soccer club feel that I think they are going after, look out. 

[Reality 2,710]

Jon Rahm. Oh boy.

So, does the merger happen before the end of the year?

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Pga tour dropped the ball at basically every turn 

[KSB2424 3,083]

I don't blame anyone for going for the cash grab.  It’s hard to turn down hundreds of millions of dollars.  With that said:

1. Spare us the company line you were told to say “I’m doing this to grow the game”.  “I’m doing this for the kids and future of golf”. Please, just be honest and stop patronizing us.  HVIII was the only one yet to just be honest.  

2.  The product sucks.  It’s like Arena League Football to the NFL. Here come the FOUR ACES in their shotgun start and matching uni’s, cue the intro music.  WWE stuff.  

3.  LIV isn’t making money, yet they spend billions.  They have unlimited pockets because it’s backed by the Saudi Government.  It’s not true competition in the marketplace.  

At the end of the day it is what it is but it’s ruining golf for me.  I have zero interest right now in golf.  Whatever. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

5 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I don't blame anyone for going for the cash grab.  It’s hard to turn down hundreds of millions of dollars.  With that said:

1. Spare us the company line you were told to say “I’m doing this to grow the game”.  “I’m doing this for the kids and future of golf”. Please, just be honest and stop patronizing us.  HVIII was the only one yet to just be honest.  

2.  The product sucks.  It’s like Arena League Football to the NFL. Here come the FOUR ACES in their shotgun start and matching uni’s, cue the intro music.  WWE stuff.  

3.  LIV isn’t making money, yet they spend billions.  They have unlimited pockets because it’s backed by the Saudi Government.  It’s not true competition in the marketplace.  

At the end of the day it is what it is but it’s ruining golf for me.  I have zero interest right now in golf.  Whatever. 

I am still of the opinion that more than 1 tour/league can be good for the game. Of course, I agree with you in the fact that we all know the up front money is the deciding factor for these players.

As for the product, it's in its infancy. If you want to do something a little different than the only thing we have ever had, you're going to have to try and be creative. I don't like shotgun starts as it feels too "beer league, company outing". the team aspect is somewhat interesting, depending on what they do with it. As I mentioned before, they are obviously trying the soccer club thing and if it works out, I think that will be very good for them.

3. This is not a perfect comparison but it's the best I have off the top of my head considering golf doesn't have franchises... the Yankees under George. Baseball without a salary cap allowed the Yankees to sign whoever they wanted. Is that true free agent competition? 

 

At the end of the day, I still believe you only have the PGA to blame for what has transpired and how you feel about golf. There were so many ways and times that they could have thwarted what they knew was coming but they chose to stick their head in the sand. 

1. Shouldn't have stopped Norman from trying in the past. Maybe Saudi money wouldn't have ever been involved. 

2. Be less greedy.  - sure, the PGA doesn't have Saudi money, but Phil was proven correct. They had way more money than they were letting on. Hence the magical purse increases, PIP fund, etc. 

3. Contract your talent.  -  players like guaranteed money. It's not how golf has been but it's how most other sports are. Sometimes you have to adapt. If Lebron gets paid regardless of if he is injured or even just sits games to rest, why wouldn't Rahm, Rory, etc want that too? If they had rolled out a contract system, especially for top talent, back in 2021... LIV is probably dead already.

4. Again, they should have been proactive with changes instead of head in the sand, making bold statements that Jay couldn't ultimately back up. Why does the PGA suddenly have an offseason this year? Finally back to no more year round fedex points so tour players don't feel like they have to play all year. It's just one example but this is something the tour could have changed a few years ago to make the players happier.

When you're the only game in town, you can do whatever you want. They underestimated what was coming and now all they can do is make reactionary changes. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

I maintain the same stance I have had.  Don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.  But for the viewer, the fan, it is a bummer and has watered down the sport a bit.  

Im not writing off LIV as a joke and unwatchable.   But so far for me, meh, not that interested.   Even with a great roster of golfers, the outcome of events don't matter to me.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

I maintain the same stance I have had.  Don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.  But for the viewer, the fan, it is a bummer and has watered down the sport a bit.  

Im not writing off LIV as a joke and unwatchable.   But so far for me, meh, not that interested.   Even with a great roster of golfers, the outcome of events don't matter to me.  

They don't matter to me either but I think this is where most golf fans are failing to acknowledge that the events we all care about have had a tremendous amount of time to grow in prestige. The PGA Tour wasn't formed until the 60's, as it was its own breakaway tour in a sense. the first Players championship was in 1974. Was it nearly as popular with fans back then as it is today? The Fedex Cup was introduced in 2007. Top players didn't even care for the format and would skip events if they could. After many tweaks, the tour championship is now up there in the top 10 or so events on the calendar. All the WGC events began in 1999, the match play was pretty popular with fans. Now they are gone.

Any new tour or league is going to need time to build any kind of prestige. that's why the whole "we play for history and prestige" argument used by the PGA was kin of silly. You were the only game in town, you obviously had a stranglehold on all the prestige. That's why they were so upset that the various governing bodies of the major championships allowed LIV golfers to play. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

They don't matter to me either but I think this is where most golf fans are failing to acknowledge that the events we all care about have had a tremendous amount of time to grow in prestige. The PGA Tour wasn't formed until the 60's, as it was its own breakaway tour in a sense. the first Players championship was in 1974. Was it nearly as popular with fans back then as it is today? The Fedex Cup was introduced in 2007. Top players didn't even care for the format and would skip events if they could. After many tweaks, the tour championship is now up there in the top 10 or so events on the calendar. All the WGC events began in 1999, the match play was pretty popular with fans. Now they are gone.

Any new tour or league is going to need time to build any kind of prestige. that's why the whole "we play for history and prestige" argument used by the PGA was kin of silly. You were the only game in town, you obviously had a stranglehold on all the prestige. That's why they were so upset that the various governing bodies of the major championships allowed LIV golfers to play. 

Week in and week out I would like to see all the best players.  I understand the best guys pick and choose, but they still played at least like 18 or 20 events against the best.   Rahm DJ Koepka Cam amongst others not being at Riv or TPs cheapens the event for me the fan.   

If half the top QBs are in thr NFL and thr other half is in thr XFL, it waters it down week in and week out.  

Yeah Ill wait 20 years for LIV to build up prestige.   If things are similar to today then it is still watered down, even if some events feel more "prestigious".  

This is all moot because its going to change.  Hopefully we get to see all thr best guys compete together in more than 3 or 4 tournaments a year.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

14 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Week in and week out I would like to see all the best players.  I understand the best guys pick and choose, but they still played at least like 18 or 20 events against the best.   Rahm DJ Koepka Cam amongst others not being at Riv or TPs cheapens the event for me the fan.   

If half the top QBs are in thr NFL and thr other half is in thr XFL, it waters it down week in and week out.  

Yeah Ill wait 20 years for LIV to build up prestige.   If things are similar to today then it is still watered down, even if some events feel more "prestigious".  

This is all moot because its going to change.  Hopefully we get to see all thr best guys compete together in more than 3 or 4 tournaments a year.  

Well I don't disagree at all about the watered down feeling. The funny thing is that LIV has not banned it's golfers from playing events on other tours. That is all the PGA/R&A. Now some of the guys who left for LIV also cited the lighter schedule as a reason, so maybe they would have no interest in playing any PGA Tour events. But i'd be willing to bet there are still events they want to play. Scottish Open the week before the Open, for example. 

Fans who care most about the watered down aspect should be hoping a merger goes through. It's really the best situation at this point. Otherwise we will just have to accept that a few more top names are likely to jump ship and if you stick with the PGA as your main golf viewing, you'll have to be open to new talent coming up from Korn Ferry.

[KSB2424 3,083]

6 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

I maintain the same stance I have had.  Don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.  But for the viewer, the fan, it is a bummer and has watered down the sport a bit.  

Im not writing off LIV as a joke and unwatchable.   But so far for me, meh, not that interested.   Even with a great roster of golfers, the outcome of events don't matter to me.  

They could grab Scottie, Hovland, Finau and Rickie.  I still wouldn’t watch. It’s a bad product, it’s dudes hitting golf balls on courses, but it’s not Golf. Wait till Deshamblow hits is a mulligan from the red tees whilst DJ Khalid spits hot fire! Can’t wait!  JFC

[BiffTannen 651]

Tony Finau and Tyrrell Hatton are on deck. 

[Cruzer 1,992]

* LIV didn't kill the PGA Tour, tour leadership did. 

* I'm shocked more aging players (esp. those w/a major and/or are foreigners) haven't bolted yet. I expect guys like Jason Day to defect daily. 

* Rory's career is officially over...... He could run off 8 more majors, won't matter - they'll forever have an asterisk, deemed hollow now. 

 

Tiger in his prime (circa 2000) is about the only sure-fire force that could have weathered LIV....TW is almost 50, that's obviously not happening......... Now, a full merger is about the only thing (I can see) that can save the Tour.......................... Follow the sponsors - they will determine the final outcome of all of this. If/when they start pulling $$$, that's when shiit gets real. 

[BufordT 371]

In 2 years, the average fan won't know who plays on which tour.  The LIV regime has opened up a can of whoop azz on the PGA Tour and its only gonna get worse, if the LIV tour starts to make more money than it is shelling out (one has to assume the LIV hasn't had a positive return on their investment, right?)

[edjr 5,567]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:46 PM, KSB2424 said:

They could grab Scottie, Hovland, Finau and Rickie.  I still wouldn’t watch. It’s a bad product, it’s dudes hitting golf balls on courses, but it’s not Golf. Wait till Deshamblow hits is a mulligan from the red tees whilst DJ Khalid spits hot fire! Can’t wait!  JFC

show us on the doll where they touched you

[edjr 5,567]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rory-mcilroy-u-turns-admits-141518469.html

Rut Roh. Rory changes his mind and says he would play on LIV tour. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

On 12/10/2023 at 1:49 PM, BufordT said:

In 2 years, the average fan won't know who plays on which tour.  The LIV regime has opened up a can of whoop azz on the PGA Tour and its only gonna get worse, if the LIV tour starts to make more money than it is shelling out (one has to assume the LIV hasn't had a positive return on their investment, right?)

that would be the understatement of the year. There is no way, entering just their 2nd full season, that they are anywhere close to making a positive return given the $$ they have shelled out to acquire enough talent to even make another golf league feasible. Which is totally understandable. You wuldn't expect a venture like this, even without big saudi money, to turn a profit yet given what they need to do to get up and running. 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

1 hour ago, edjr said:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/rory-mcilroy-u-turns-admits-141518469.html

Rut Roh. Rory changes his mind and says he would play on LIV tour. 

his history of quotes on the topic is hilarious. and now he claims he was the instrumental one in getting the two sides closer together 

I can't stand him

[BiffTannen 651]

Adrian Meronk signed 

[edjr 5,567]

Tyrrell Fatton goes to LIV

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tyrrell-hatton-set-join-liv-112413543.html

[BiffTannen 651]

4 minutes ago, edjr said:

Tyrrell Fatton goes to LIV

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/tyrrell-hatton-set-join-liv-112413543.html

I'm surprised it took him this long. He gives me a Cam Smith vibe. Golf is a job and he wants to play as little as possible. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

The watering down of the pga continues.