BLM co-founder's cousin dead after being detained by police.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

If the police are a big problem in your life the police aren’t the problem. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

Just to recap

Guy high on weed n coke tries to steal a guys car...causes accident..refuses to cooperate with police...resists arrest...gets tazed after 9 warnings.. and dies 4 hours later in a hospital from cardiac arrest.

Love me some LA pd cameras.

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

If the police are a big problem in your life the police aren’t the problem. 

Sorry but no. I get that statements like this are witty but if you don’t believe that black people in this country are, as a general rule, treated differently and much more unfairly than white people by police, you are living in a fantasy dream. The mistreatment and inequity absolutely exists. White privilege is absolutely real. We can disagree on what to do about it, but we shouldn’t disagree about its reality. 

[Voltaire 4,562]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry but no. I get that statements like this are witty but if you don’t believe that black people in this country are, as a general rule, treated differently and much more unfairly than white people by police, you are living in a fantasy dream. The mistreatment and inequity absolutely exists. White privilege is absolutely real. We can disagree on what to do about it, but we shouldn’t disagree about its reality. 

inch vs mile

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

28 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Just to recap

Guy high on weed n coke tries to steal a guys car...causes accident..refuses to cooperate with police...resists arrest...gets tazed after 9 warnings.. and dies 4 hours later in a hospital from cardiac arrest.

Love me some LA pd cameras.

I said earlier it was 25 warnings and I want to apologize to Buckswope if it was only 9. Again, I wasn’t being literal. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

5 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Just to recap

Guy high on weed n coke tries to steal a guys car...causes accident..refuses to cooperate with police...resists arrest...gets tazed after 9 warnings.. and dies 4 hours later in a hospital from cardiac arrest.

Love me some LA pd cameras.

Where does it say he was trying to steal a car? I can’t find that in any of the articles I’ve read. I can’t find any evidence that he caused the accident. Also that he “resisted arrest” is really subject to interpretation….

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149132089/keenan-anderson-patrisse-cullors-lapd-body-cam-footage

Here’s an NPR article. Is it unfair? 

[RLLD 3,455]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry but no. I get that statements like this are witty but if you don’t believe that black people in this country are, as a general rule, treated differently and much more unfairly than white people by police, you are living in a fantasy dream. The mistreatment and inequity absolutely exists. White privilege is absolutely real. We can disagree on what to do about it, but we shouldn’t disagree about its reality. 

Let's approach it another way.....

If you are familiar with the theory of the subculture of violence then you can understand how violence is a cultural concept to a greater extent for lower socioeconomic groups.  

African Americans were once treated differently, but that ended long ago.  Then what arose was a behavioral problem, one that arose in part as a by product of zero tolerance policing.

The problem is not the police, though there is some of that.....this is not a univariable issue....part of the problem is the legal system and the laws....sure....the biggest problem is behavioral on the part of the individual.....THAT is what needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency..... and in parallel the laws, the court system and yes....the police as well.

Simply saying the police are unfair to AA's is far too simple to apply to far too complex a problem. 

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry but no. I get that statements like this are witty but if you don’t believe that black people in this country are, as a general rule, treated differently and much more unfairly than white people by police, you are living in a fantasy dream. The mistreatment and inequity absolutely exists. White privilege is absolutely real. We can disagree on what to do about it, but we shouldn’t disagree about its reality. 

I don’t necessarily disagree, but you have to admit to yourself that there is a very valid reason as to why that is. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry but no. I get that statements like this are witty but if you don’t believe that black people in this country are, as a general rule, treated differently and much more unfairly than white people by police, you are living in a fantasy dream. The mistreatment and inequity absolutely exists. White privilege is absolutely real. We can disagree on what to do about it, but we shouldn’t disagree about its reality. 

What’s your experience with all of it? I can assure you black people get numerous breaks and a ton of leeway from police. Too much if you ask me. Half of the murders in this country go unsolved.  Most of the murders are committed by black males. Splain that . 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Let's approach it another way.....

If you are familiar with the theory of the subculture of violence then you can understand how violence is a cultural concept to a greater extent for lower socioeconomic groups.  

African Americans were once treated differently, but that ended long ago.  Then what arose was a behavioral problem, one that arose in part as a by product of zero tolerance policing.

The problem is not the police, though there is some of that.....this is not a univariable issue....part of the problem is the legal system and the laws....sure....the biggest problem is behavioral on the part of the individual.....THAT is what needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency..... and in parallel the laws, the court system and yes....the police as well.

Simply saying the police are unfair to AA's is far too simple to apply to far too complex a problem. 

I don’t agree. But I want you to know that I REALLY appreciate the thoughtfulness of your posts. You make some great arguments and give me plenty of ideas to consider. This is IMO the best sort of discussion. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

5 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

I don’t necessarily disagree, but you have to admit to yourself that there is a very valid reason as to why that is. 

There are lots of reasons. I don’t think too many are particularly valid, but reasonable people can disagree. 

[Alias Detective 1,179]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sorry but no. I get that statements like this are witty but if you don’t believe that black people in this country are, as a general rule, treated differently and much more unfairly than white people by police, you are living in a fantasy dream. The mistreatment and inequity absolutely exists. White privilege is absolutely real. We can disagree on what to do about it, but we shouldn’t disagree about its reality. 

You are an apologist.  Do you believe in responsibility?

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

16 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Where does it say he was trying to steal a car? I can’t find that in any of the articles I’ve read. I can’t find any evidence that he caused the accident. Also that he “resisted arrest” is really subject to interpretation….

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149132089/keenan-anderson-patrisse-cullors-lapd-body-cam-footage

Here’s an NPR article. Is it unfair? 

The police cams..u can hear a guy telling the officer.."thats him..he tried to take my car!!!  

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

What’s your experience with all of it? I can assure you black people get numerous breaks and a ton of leeway from police. Too much if you ask me. Half of the murders in this country go unsolved.  Most of the murders are committed by black males. Splain that . 

Well you raise a lot of issues here. In order: 

1. I’m a white guy, privileged my entire life. So I don’t have too much personal experience. The closest thing that I ever witnessed was a few years back, I was having a picnic with a black friend with his wife and kids in Echo Park in Los Angeles. Some police showed up and took him away in handcuffs in front of me, his sobbing wife and terrified children. It turned out that there had been a robbery in the area and he matched the description of “a black guy”. He was released several hours later. I guarantee you that this would never have happened to me, or any white person I know. 
 

2. Despite your assurances I don’t believe blacks get “leeway” or “numerous breaks” from police. Quite the opposite. A film crew at UCLA did an experiment a few years ago. They parked a car on a major street in Westwood and filmed a white guy trying to break into the car. An hour passed as he attempted to break the locks. Nothing happened. Finally a policeman showed up, asked if it was his car, took him at his word that it was, and offered to help him. The next day they filmed it again, only this time a black dude was filmed trying to break in. Within 5 minutes he was confronted by 3 policemen who then handcuffed him and took him away for questioning. 
 

3. Black males certainly are responsible for a lot of murders in this country. I don’t know about “most”. I strongly doubt we see eye to eye on the reasons for this. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

2 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

The police cams..u can hear a guy telling the officer.."thats him..he tried to take my car!!!  

But we have no idea is that actually happened. We have no idea, before the film starts, WHAT happened. 
What bothers me is how quickly you and others want to assume the worst of the deceased guy. By  contrast I don’t want to assume the worst of the police. I’m willing to wait and learn more about this. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

11 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

You are an apologist.  Do you believe in responsibility?

Of course I do. And no I have made no apologies for anyone. 

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

7 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

The police cams..u can hear a guy telling the officer.."thats him..he tried to take my car!!!  

He couldn’t have watched the video if he didn’t know this. It was in the first few seconds. I’m shocked NPR didn’t mention it. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Of course I do. And no I have made no apologies for anyone. 

Why don’t you leave black people alone? Liberals have completely failed them. MYOB. 

[RLLD 3,455]

30 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t agree. But I want you to know that I REALLY appreciate the thoughtfulness of your posts. You make some great arguments and give me plenty of ideas to consider. This is IMO the best sort of discussion. 

I enjoy your posts as well, they are always well thought-out and presented in a way that allows me to think about them thoughtfully.... 

[craftsman 1,045]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

I know.  I have taken the black mans jobs

true story, a year ago one of my best friends (black dude) got married, I was the only white guy (couple 36D) invited.  He introduced me to everyone as his weed dealer, lol.  200 black people and I was the only plug

You should have went black face to the wedding. And the fact you eeren't best man is racist.

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

17 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why don’t you leave black people alone? Liberals have completely failed them. MYOB. 

I think you’re correct that liberals have completely failed them. We haven’t fought nearly hard enough for them. 

[craftsman 1,045]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think you’re correct that liberals have completely failed them. We haven’t fought nearly hard enough for them. 

Fight for what? They aren't capable of taking care of their own business? What is it they can't do without your assistance?

[Ultra Max Power 214]

42 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

 I’m a white guy, privileged my entire life. 

How much do you donate a year?

[listen2me 23 1,544]

 

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Also that he “resisted arrest” is really subject to interpretation….

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/14/1149132089/keenan-anderson-patrisse-cullors-lapd-body-cam-footage

Holy hell you already have climbed to the most delusional poster here.  You don't think he was clearly resisting arrest?  Holy hell.  Do you not have eyes?  

I knew footballguys was a delusional pit of snowflakes, but I am in awe when we get to see it up close like this.  

[listen2me 23 1,544]

52 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

 

1. I’m a white guy, privileged my entire life.

Holy hell, I have read about you people.  But to experience it is a different thing.  You make our fake centrists here look like the KKK.  

[listen2me 23 1,544]

25 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I think you’re correct that liberals have completely failed them. We haven’t fought nearly hard enough for them. 

So you are one of those liberals who think black people are helpless and stupid.   Well not shocked there.   That checks out.

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

28 minutes ago, craftsman said:

Fight for what? They aren't capable of taking care of their own business? What is it they can't do without your assistance?

The vast majority of blacks in this country, per polling,  want a police reform act and a new voting rights act. They want more money spent on education in black areas and economic aid to the inner cities. Conservatives oppose all of these ideas and liberal politicians pay lip service but don’t push hard enough for them. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

3 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

So you are one of those liberals who think black people are helpless and stupid.   Well not shocked there.   That checks out.

They’re neither helpless nor stupid. But they are a minority and can’t get legislation passed without our support. It would help if conservatives didn’t oppose every proposal. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Holy hell, I have read about you people.  But to experience it is a different thing.  You make our fake centrists here look like the KKK.  

Thanks I guess? 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The vast majority of blacks in this country, per polling,  want a police reform act and a new voting rights act. They want more money spent on education in black areas and economic aid to the inner cities. Conservatives oppose all of these ideas and liberal politicians pay lip service but don’t push hard enough for them. 

Plenty of money spent on education in black areas. Look it up.  Money isn’t the issue. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

9 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

 

Holy hell you already have climbed to the most delusional poster here.  You don't think he was clearly resisting arrest?  Holy hell.  Do you not have eyes?  

I knew footballguys was a delusional pit of snowflakes, but I am in awe when we get to see it up close like this.  

Thanks again. I’m not sure if he was clearly resisting arrest. Neither is the LAPD, which is why the incident is under investigation. My presumption, watching the video and reading about it, is that the guy is likely at fault and that the police will be deemed to have not acted poorly. But that is a presumption. I can’t make a judgment call at this point. 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

23 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

How much do you donate a year?

To what? 
My main charities are to my local rotary club and the YMCA. But I also give a lot of money to Planned Parebthood and the ACLU. I’ve never donated to a politician (except one time, to Ted Cruz in early 2016. I detest Cruz, but he was the only remaining opposition to Trump at the time so I sent him $100). 

[The Real timschochet 2,944]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Plenty of money spent on education in black areas. Look it up.  Money isn’t the issue. 

Nope. This is an oft repeated lie, spread by conservatives, to make themselves feel better about education. It’s the exact opposite of the truth: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/study-finds-black-and-latino-students-face-significant-funding-gap/2020/07/21/712f376a-caca-11ea-b0e3-d55bda07d66a_story.html

In a different thread I wrote that Rush Limbaugh’s falsehoods were terribly damaging to our society. This is one of the worst examples of it. Rush was more responsible than anyone for spreading this particular lie. 

[Voltaire 4,562]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

They’re neither helpless nor stupid. But they are a minority and can’t get legislation passed without our support. It would help if conservatives didn’t oppose every proposal. 

It would help if the proposals made sense. "Voting rights" is what Democrats use as a cover for harvesting ballots, lack of voter ID, mass mailing ballots, less oversight for mail-in voting, looser restrictions on ballot security, and legalizes bullying election observers. What masquerades as "Police reform" is a solution to an imaginary/fake problem that makes it harder on the cops to do their job.

Money spent on education or economic aid to the inner cities, I'm not sure what those are referencing lately but what similarly sound good but fall apart when the devil is found in the details. The Dems have a long history of graft of public money and developing counterproductive policies that punish work and reward irresponsible behavior.

 

 

[listen2me 23 1,544]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thanks again. I’m not sure if he was clearly resisting arrest. Neither is the LAPD, which is why the incident is under investigation. My presumption, watching the video and reading about it, is that the guy is likely at fault and that the police will be deemed to have not acted poorly. But that is a presumption. I can’t make a judgment call at this point. 

We don't have to make an final judgments.   But you aren't sure if he was resisting?  Again, do you not have eyes?  What was he doing? 

[craftsman 1,045]

39 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The vast majority of blacks in this country, per polling,  want a police reform act and a new voting rights act. They want more money spent on education in black areas and economic aid to the inner cities. Conservatives oppose all of these ideas and liberal politicians pay lip service but don’t push hard enough for them. 

The vast majority of people in general in this country aren't black. Why should they get go to the top of the line for policy making? The most influencial people in the black communities are the citizens themselves. 

Why don't they invest in themselves to show that they deserve others to invest in them? Take care of your own business first then if you need some help show that you can be responsible to use the help. If black women are going to keep having babies with men that run away, that means they are incapable of learning how to run their own lives. I've been hearing for many years the same old story. The father leaves and the mother works 3 jobs leaving the kids at home to fend for themselves in life. Over and over again. Then the kids get messed up and involved in gangs and blah blah blah. 

If I were an alcoholic who doesn't become self aware, and I keep screwing up time after time, at first people are there to help, but if I never learn, people will stop trying to help because I refuse to help myself. There are plenty of black people out there that do the right thing and get the hell out of Dodge and go take care of themselves first. Yet there are so many who don't. 

Black people have the same opportunities in life. Hell, they have more than other races often times. Many colleges put them on acceptance list over more deserving others simply because they are black. 

Do you really believe it's the police who are the problem? If black people stopped committing crimes and stopped fighting cops when they get pulled over, do you think police reform is necessary? It wouldn't be. Stop saying it's the policeman's fault all the time. 

Why spend more money on education in black cities when they don't even absorb what they have now. That is all just an excuse for bad behavior. Throwing money at people doesn't work unless the people first prove they are ready to be responsible.

  

[Casual Observer 597]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well you raise a lot of issues here. In order: 

1. I’m a white guy, privileged my entire life. So I don’t have too much personal experience. The closest thing that I ever witnessed was a few years back, I was having a picnic with a black friend with his wife and kids in Echo Park in Los Angeles. Some police showed up and took him away in handcuffs in front of me, his sobbing wife and terrified children. It turned out that there had been a robbery in the area and he matched the description of “a black guy”. He was released several hours later. I guarantee you that this would never have happened to me, or any white person I know. 
 

2. Despite your assurances I don’t believe blacks get “leeway” or “numerous breaks” from police. Quite the opposite. A film crew at UCLA did an experiment a few years ago. They parked a car on a major street in Westwood and filmed a white guy trying to break into the car. An hour passed as he attempted to break the locks. Nothing happened. Finally a policeman showed up, asked if it was his car, took him at his word that it was, and offered to help him. The next day they filmed it again, only this time a black dude was filmed trying to break in. Within 5 minutes he was confronted by 3 policemen who then handcuffed him and took him away for questioning. 
 

3. Black males certainly are responsible for a lot of murders in this country. I don’t know about “most”. I strongly doubt we see eye to eye on the reasons for this. 

Are you sure about that?  This reads a lot like a "fellow white people" post.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

46 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Nope. This is an oft repeated lie, spread by conservatives, to make themselves feel better about education. It’s the exact opposite of the truth: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/study-finds-black-and-latino-students-face-significant-funding-gap/2020/07/21/712f376a-caca-11ea-b0e3-d55bda07d66a_story.html

In a different thread I wrote that Rush Limbaugh’s falsehoods were terribly damaging to our society. This is one of the worst examples of it. Rush was more responsible than anyone for spreading this particular lie. 

More than enough money spent in those areas. Money isn’t the issue. Money is why high schoolers read at a third grade level? Really? You’re a fool if you think that. 

[craftsman 1,045]

20 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

More than enough money spent in those areas. Money isn’t the issue. Money is why high schoolers read at a third grade level? Really? You’re a fool if you think that. 

White democrats think that throwing money at a problem created by people fixes any problem created by people. They don't want to actually tell the people who are causing the problem that they are causing the problem and they need to change to fix it.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

Just now, craftsman said:

White democrats think that throwing money at a problem created by people fixes any problem created by people. They don't want to actually tell the people who are causing the problem that they are causing the problem and they need to change to fix it.

How much money is necessary to have high schoolers reading at least near grade level?