DeSantis and his stupid laws

[craftsman 1,045]

53 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

You’re expressing a very specific point of view. One that I happen to strongly disagree with. I don’t believe that we have compensated nearly enough for racism, and I don’t believe that “reverse discrimination” is a real issue of concern in our society. 
 

Nonetheless your point of view is legitimate in that it is shared by a lot of people. If there was a high school honors course devoted to exploring your POV on this subject, I have no doubt that some radical leftists would try their best to shut down or ban such a course. But I would be as strongly opposed to that as I am to this ban. 

What have you given in compensation?

[BuckSwope 654]

52 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

When I say "none of this", I'm not talking about the actual American History we were taught (slavery, jim crowe, etc...).  I'm talking about the Marxist propaganda being tied to it under the guise of "history" that is quite clear from the link.

If you resubmit the same garbage but worded differently you will continue to get rejected.

I mean, the Democrats in Congress never accept anything from the Republicans but you never complain about that.  I suspect you're coming from a "as long as my side is in power, it's okay" angle.

I complain about that all the time, I can't help it if people selectively read my posts or don't bother reading them at all.  I hate all the partisan, can't give an inch to the other team b.s. in politics.    It's sad that it's very rare that anybody breaks rank, and it just adds to the stupid notion that everybody who votes D thinks one way about an issue and those who vote R think the opposite way.  it's nonsense.   

 

Now, as far as the bolded.  Feel free to correct me, or point out where I am wrong about your stance and beliefs.   Based on your posting I take you to be of the thought that

1. viewing history through an AA lens = CRT = marxist propaganda.  

2.  Marxist ideas are dangerous and shouldn't be tolerated

3.  You are comfortable blocking any teaching of these ideas.  

 

If it's not you, again - please correct me and clarify your specific position.  IF not you, think is the sentiment that I encounter a lot from people on the right side of the aisle.   That's why I don't trust that you or DeSantis are really intersted in honestly talking about resubmitted ideas - it's basically all marxist b.s., so any whiff of CRT or left lean would be rejected.       

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

These people. They think education, especially higher education, just “leans” left. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

Everyone on the right is an extremist, everyone on the left is a leaner. Got it. 

[BuckSwope 654]

1 hour ago, Fnord said:

This is what gets me. A large group of people (group A) consumes a specific type of media, complains that the oppositional group (B) is brainwashed by the media that they (group consume, and contends that they themselves (group A) are not subject to the same, as their choice of media is the objective truth. Righteous indignation reigns among group A, who is obviously being discriminated against at every level due to the inability of group B to think for themselves.  

Group A's solution to this? Remove anything that might require freedom of choice or independent thought, as it's obvious that group B is too dumb to realize what's going on, and Group A doesn't want to bother to think about anything that doesn't fall in lockstep with them and the media that they consume.

Same people b!tching about cancel culture and infringement upon their almighty rights also want to ban books! And don't even realize how ironically stupid that line of thinking is. SMDH.

Yes, 100% I've said it multiple times - each team has their triggers that are overrepresented in their media and SM feeds.   

For the left - race and racism.   It's to the point where when polled liberals think there are 1000s of black deaths at the hand of police every year.   That's what happens when any example is amplified and your media largely focuses on those stories.   The people on the right laugh at this and call them sheep, and with reason.  

For the right - CRT and trans stuff.    Listen to them talk - brainwashing in school, groomers everywhere.   Again, that's what happens when Fox and other outlets hammer these types of stories.  People on the left laugh at how crazy these people sound.   

You can pick out the hyperpartisan people because they are the ones laughing at or admitting to one of them, but not the other.  

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

48 minutes ago, craftsman said:

What have you given in compensation?

My time, a little money, and my vote for liberals. 

[craftsman 1,045]

28 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

My time, a little money, and my vote for liberals. 

So you only want to makes things worse for black people by catering to them wanting handouts instead of them doing what every other race and nationality has done and become self sufficient and not begging and whining for the rest of their lives. 

You could not have picked 3 worse things to do for that community.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

Leon county in Florida has now instituted a policy that students must use the bathroom that corresponds with their biological sex. Common sense prevailing in Florida. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Leon county in Florida has now instituted a policy that students must use the bathroom that corresponds with their biological sex. Common sense prevailing in Florida. 

As it should be.  I also see no issue with assigned "uni-sex" bathrooms.  When a kid goes in, any gender can be in there.  You know before you enter that it's pot luck.

[dogcows 1,029]

5 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Normally I find you pretty fair on some things, but this feigned ignorance you're displaying here really bothers me.  You don't know?  Really?

You see, it's this minimization of the problem and pretending that it's not an issue.  It clearly is.  None of this belongs in a curriculum.  How is that not so obvious to you?

Minimization of what problem? From my perspective, DeSantis and others seem to be scared that people might learn stuff about past treatment of black people in America (and the ongoing effects of it) the white majority don’t want them to learn.

How many times does it need to be said that this course is optional? The point of it is not to be indoctrinated, but to learn various points of view from the African American community. Some you might agree with, some you might not. Seems that even within the curriculum, there are opposing viewpoints. That’s exactly what you want from a college-level course. A variety of viewpoints presented, with students encouraged to read them all and then do their own critical thinking.

As was said before, we cover Karl Marx, Hitler, and all sorts of people whose ideas are repellent to us. We even talk about those ideas, and perhaps read some of their writings. But you can’t handle the writings of a black activist who has strong negative opinions about capitalism? Now who is doing the brainwashing? If anything is great, it should be able to stand up to an honest criticism.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,523]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

Minimization of what problem? From my perspective, DeSantis and others seem to be scared that people might learn stuff about past treatment of black people in America (and the ongoing effects of it) the white majority don’t want them to learn.

How many times does it need to be said that this course is optional? The point of it is not to be indoctrinated, but to learn various points of view from the African American community. Some you might agree with, some you might not. Seems that even within the curriculum, there are opposing viewpoints. That’s exactly what you want from a college-level course. A variety of viewpoints presented, with students encouraged to read them all and then do their own critical thinking.

As was said before, we cover Karl Marx, Hitler, and all sorts of people whose ideas are repellent to us. We even talk about those ideas, and perhaps read some of their writings. But you can’t handle the writings of a black activist who has strong negative opinions about capitalism? Now who is doing the brainwashing? If anything is great, it should be able to stand up to an honest criticism.

Per the first bolded: Except none of that is what they are actually doing.  At all.  It's revisionist history mixed with propoganda.

Per the second bolded, your side of the aisle not only does NOT find those ideas repellent, but also actively promotes them. I mean, it is LITERALLY what we are talking about here. 

[dogcows 1,029]

6 hours ago, Reality said:

More info here:

 

National Review...

They’ve gotten even worse than they used to be. I can’t believe the poor quality of that article. I loved the title of another article by this nitwit: “Stealth CRT in Biden’s Budget.” What a way to tell everybody you’re not the least bit serious about anything.

[dogcows 1,029]

6 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Per the first bolded: Except none of that is what they are actually doing.  At all.  It's revisionist history mixed with propoganda.

Per the second bolded, your side of the aisle not only does NOT find those ideas repellent, but also actively promotes them. I mean, it is LITERALLY what we are talking about here. 

So you accuse BLM supporters of being Nazis and/or Marxists. And that’s how we know you aren’t interested in a serious discussion.

[BuckSwope 654]

36 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Per the first bolded: Except none of that is what they are actually doing.  At all.  It's revisionist history mixed with propoganda.

Per the second bolded, your side of the aisle not only does NOT find those ideas repellent, but also actively promotes them. I mean, it is LITERALLY what we are talking about here. 

So what you are saying with that last part is that it would be impossible for a teacher to present both sides in a course like this?  That any teacher who teaches this class would also NOT find these ideas repellent and would be promoting them?

Otherwise, what are you trying to equate "his side of the aisle" with in this situation.   Why be for shutting a class this down? 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,523]

49 minutes ago, dogcows said:

So you accuse BLM supporters of being Nazis and/or Marxists. And that’s how we know you aren’t interested in a serious discussion.

I didn't accuse them of being Nazis. 

And they ARE Marxists, you doofus.  They have LITERALLY said they were trained Marxists. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

18 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

So what you are saying with that last part is that it would be impossible for a teacher to present both sides in a course like this?  That any teacher who teaches this class would also NOT find these ideas repellent and would be promoting them?

Otherwise, what are you trying to equate "his side of the aisle" with in this situation.   Why be for shutting a class this down? 

Is this a parody account? Is it Drobeski or someone just focking with people? 

[BuckSwope 654]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

Minimization of what problem? From my perspective, DeSantis and others seem to be scared that people might learn stuff about past treatment of black people in America (and the ongoing effects of it) the white majority don’t want them to learn.

How many times does it need to be said that this course is optional? The point of it is not to be indoctrinated, but to learn various points of view from the African American community. Some you might agree with, some you might not. Seems that even within the curriculum, there are opposing viewpoints. That’s exactly what you want from a college-level course. A variety of viewpoints presented, with students encouraged to read them all and then do their own critical thinking.

As was said before, we cover Karl Marx, Hitler, and all sorts of people whose ideas are repellent to us. We even talk about those ideas, and perhaps read some of their writings. But you can’t handle the writings of a black activist who has strong negative opinions about capitalism? Now who is doing the brainwashing? If anything is great, it should be able to stand up to an honest criticism.

This is why I am having trouble understanding their position.    Setting aside we should always be striving for more debate, more POVs, more critical thinking not less - it seems like things like optional and college-level also mean nothing in the discussion.     

[craftsman 1,045]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

This is why I am having trouble understanding their position.    Setting aside we should always be striving for more debate, more POVs, more critical thinking not less - it seems like things like optional and college-level also mean nothing in the discussion.     

We have to get to children before the conservatives do. 

[jonmx 1,593]

10 hours ago, dogcows said:

National Review...

They’ve gotten even worse than they used to be. I can’t believe the poor quality of that article. I loved the title of another article by this nitwit: “Stealth CRT in Biden’s Budget.” What a way to tell everybody you’re not the least bit serious about anything.

Oh, because you said so.  WHY not offerr real criticism of the article?  Because you are a shallow leftist who can only parrot what some idiot says on your Twitter feed.  The article exposes the curriculum being proposed by your beloved College Board’s pilot AP African-American Studies that was being pushed on Florida's schools.  Of course the material had to be obtained by FOIA act because what they want to teach children is a guarded secret.  What was discovered is the curriculum includes such in depth look at black history as the need to: 

- defund the police

- fighting for reparations,

- elimination of bail.

- colorblindness” is just a ploy to disguise the racism inherent in the capitalist system

- collective ownership of property....

all great topics which have zero to do with black history.  Oh bow down to your beloved leader Karl Marx.  Sieg Heil Karl you boot licker. 

[BuckSwope 654]

6 hours ago, jonmx said:

Oh, because you said so.  WHY not offerr real criticism of the article?  Because you are a shallow leftist who can only parrot what some idiot says on your Twitter feed.  The article exposes the curriculum being proposed by your beloved College Board’s pilot AP African-American Studies that was being pushed on Florida's schools.  Of course the material had to be obtained by FOIA act because what they want to teach children is a guarded secret.  What was discovered is the curriculum includes such in depth look at black history as the need to: 

- defund the police

- fighting for reparations,

- elimination of bail.

- colorblindness” is just a ploy to disguise the racism inherent in the capitalist system

- collective ownership of property....

all great topics which have zero to do with black history.  Oh bow down to your beloved leader Karl Marx.  Sieg Heil Karl you boot licker. 

Real criticism of the article is it's an opinion of what a class that was proposed would look like in its application.  It's filtered through a very red pov, and assumes the worst intentions of the teacher who would do the instruction. 

This class aside, conservatives lost me on this topic a bit ago when they make teaching CRT illegal on top of openly admitting they are purposely trying to brand every crazy idea they can as CRT.  

Feel free to justify it as saving the kids or whatever b.s. excuse you want to dance around as you are banning optional classes and books.  Very clear to me you are attempting to stop discussion before it starts and seem to be afraid of words and ideas.  

All the things you are rightly pissed at the left for doing as they block conservatives on campus and other b.s.   Two sides, same coin as we race to the bottom.  

 

[jonmx 1,593]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

Real criticism of the article is it's an opinion of what a class that was proposed would look like in its application.  It's filtered through a very red pov, and assumes the worst intentions of the teacher who would do the instruction. 

This class aside, conservatives lost me on this topic a bit ago when they make teaching CRT illegal on top of openly admitting they are purposely trying to brand every crazy idea they can as CRT.  

Feel free to justify it as saving the kids or whatever b.s. excuse you want to dance around as you are banning optional classes and books.  Very clear to me you are attempting to stop discussion before it starts and seem to be afraid of words and ideas.  

A the things you are rightly pissed at the left for doing as they block conservatives on campus and other b.s.   Two sides, same coin as we race to the bottom.  

 

It is not an opinion.  It is all in the guides that Teachers/Boards will rely on when making their ciriculum.   You are so full of it and so disingenuous.  Nobody is making crazy stuff up about what CRT is all about.  It is all written down in black and white in the foundational books taught on college campuses.  The agenda, the terms, the methods.  It is all in their college textbook and training materials that is required to get a teaching degree and continuing Ed programs.  CRT is bat-crap crazy if you choose to believe what CRT experts and founders write about it in their books.   Of course the easy button is to believe the spin that is pushed such as the flat out lies that CRT is just college based theory and not stuff meant for school children.  CRT vocabulary and ideas are being heavily pushed and littered all over the classrooms in every subject imaginable at the lowest grades possible.   This is not academic freedom, it is a large coordinated effort to push a radical leftist ideology onto young children.  

[BuckSwope 654]

1 hour ago, jonmx said:

It is not an opinion.  It is all in the guides that Teachers/Boards will rely on when making their ciriculum.   You are so full of it and so disingenuous.  Nobody is making crazy stuff up about what CRT is all about.  It is all written down in black and white in the foundational books taught on college campuses.  The agenda, the terms, the methods.  It is all in their college textbook and training materials that is required to get a teaching degree and continuing Ed programs.  CRT is bat-crap crazy if you choose to believe what CRT experts and founders write about it in their books.   Of course the easy button is to believe the spin that is pushed such as the flat out lies that CRT is just college based theory and not stuff meant for school children.  CRT vocabulary and ideas are being heavily pushed and littered all over the classrooms in every subject imaginable at the lowest grades possible.   This is not academic freedom, it is a large coordinated effort to push a radical leftist ideology onto young children.  

Sure it is.  I've posted quotes from Rufo and others that go ignored.  We've posted about how the book bannings can be traced to Christian groups, on and on.  

But this is ALWAYS what it boils down to- there are several things I don't think are correct, aren't appropriate for certain ages, there is a lot we will agree on with regards to CRT.   That's not the debate I'm having.  We can and should go example by example.  

Where we seem to disagree bigly is that it's OK to make teaching it in any context ILLEGAL and/or banning books and other ideas associated with it.  I am strongly against that approach no matter where it comes from, and based on the whining about big tech and college campuses, I thought prople like you were too.   Turns out it's just when it fits you too.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

The thread title should be “Desantis’ Florida Continues To Pursue Academic Excellence”. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

On 1/23/2023 at 11:04 AM, Fnord said:

This is what gets me. A large group of people (group A) consumes a specific type of media, complains that the oppositional group (B) is brainwashed by the media that they (group consume, and contends that they themselves (group A) are not subject to the same, as their choice of media is the objective truth. Righteous indignation reigns among group A, who is obviously being discriminated against at every level due to the inability of group B to think for themselves.  

Group A's solution to this? Remove anything that might require freedom of choice or independent thought, as it's obvious that group B is too dumb to realize what's going on, and Group A doesn't want to bother to think about anything that doesn't fall in lockstep with them and the media that they consume.

Same people b!tching about cancel culture and infringement upon their almighty rights also want to ban books! And don't even realize how ironically stupid that line of thinking is. SMDH.

This is funny... because it's exactly what the left did that put us on the path of woke culture and the current leftist ideology.

[jonmx 1,593]

20 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Sure it is.  I've posted quotes from Rufo and others that go ignored.  We've posted about how the book bannings can be traced to Christian groups, on and on.  

But this is ALWAYS what it boils down to- there are several things I don't think are correct, aren't appropriate for certain ages, there is a lot we will agree on with regards to CRT.   That's not the debate I'm having.  We can and should go example by example.  

Where we seem to disagree bigly is that it's OK to make teaching it in any context ILLEGAL and/or banning books and other ideas associated with it.  I am strongly against that approach no matter where it comes from, and based on the whining about big tech and college campuses, I thought prople like you were too.   Turns out it's just when it fits you too.  

 

This is not about book bannings or Christianity, so what you post is non-sense.  This is about curriculum and what should be taught in our children's classrooms.  The fundamental ideas being pushed are repulsive views that have no place in the classroom.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:55 AM, BuckSwope said:

Do you people really believe that your kid would take that class and become "brainwashed" by it's information?  

 

Well, the leftists thought so not too long ago.  It's why we are in the current political climate that we're in. 

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

18 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I didn't accuse them of being Nazis. 

And they ARE Marxists, you doofus.  They have LITERALLY said they were trained Marxists. 

They're not smart enough to be Marxists. They don't even know what that is. 

[BuckSwope 654]

20 minutes ago, jonmx said:

 

This is not about book bannings or Christianity, so what you post is non-sense.  This is about curriculum and what should be taught in our children's classrooms.  The fundamental ideas being pushed are repulsive views that have no place in the classroom.  

Again, its an opinion from your side of the aisle and the solution is banning and blocking discussion.   Imo a reasonable solution is to have discussions about the items, talk about when and how it could be talked about, etc.  

Not make illegal to talk about for k-12.  Imo that is censorship of ideas, from what I see from conservatives it's somehow about saving kids.  

No, the book bannings and other bs is not applicable to this specific story, I was using it as further examples from the right of what I consider more censorship.  That sentiment and reaction are not isolated to this topic and I find it troubling.  

I find it funny when you guys pretend as though it's not what is happening to deflect to examples from the left (that 100% are happening and I find equally disturbing).

[BuckSwope 654]

30 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Well, the leftists thought so not too long ago.  It's why we are in the current political climate that we're in. 

But, but.... the other side did it!!! 

I am soooo tired of seeing these types of replies.  

[The Real timschochet 2,946]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The thread title should be “Desantis’ Florida Continues To Pursue Academic Excellence”. 

That would be inaccurate. Start your own thread buddy. 

[jonmx 1,593]

10 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Again, its an opinion from your side of the aisle and the solution is banning and blocking discussion.   Imo a reasonable solution is to have discussions about the items, talk about when and how it could be talked about, etc.  

Not make illegal to talk about for k-12.  Imo that is censorship of ideas, from what I see from conservatives it's somehow about saving kids.  

No, the book bannings and other bs is not applicable to this specific story, I was using it as further examples from the right of what I consider more censorship.  That sentiment and reaction are not isolated to this topic and I find it troubling.  

I find it funny when you guys pretend as though it's not what is happening to deflect to examples from the left (that 100% are happening and I find equally disturbing).

We are not banning books.  We are the ones having open discussion and making the policies public where they can be discussed.  It is the leftist who sneak their agenda into the classroom and their true ciriculum from public scrutiny. 

Teaching kids about racial hierarchies and white previledge and all the CRT lies is contrary to the laws where we treat all people as equal under the law.   We fought a bloody civil war and those principles are now enshrined in our Constitution which unites us as a country.  CRT is contrary to the values we are suppose to share and should be banned in government run classrooms.  

If you want to teach your children CRT so that they are little Commie rebels who want to destroy what our country stands for, you are free to do that.   No one banned you.  But if you want to teach principles which have their foundation in racial bigotry, you can GTFO of the classroom.  

[BuckSwope 654]

Conservatives aren't banning books?  

 good one.   Only in TX, Virginia, etc.  

it's OK, we disagree.  It just makes all the posts about liberal censorship that much funnier coming from you guys.  I will just fully stop listening to you when it comes to that.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

Remember when people used to flock to California to live and people would just vacation in Florida? 

[BuckSwope 654]

The article I read this am about the Fla situation said there were no specifics on what to cut, only that they are free to resubmit the curriculum. 

When you have laws against teaching something, I find it hard to believe they will accept any reworking of the class.  Sure, 100% open to discussion and dialogue.  

I fully agree with you there needs to be transparency about what is in the class.   It doesn't need to go to the point of bans and such.  

Especially when we are talking elective college-level courses.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

But, but.... the other side did it!!! 

I am soooo tired of seeing these types of replies.  

All this time, I thought you were smarter than that.

I was pointing out the irony of the claims from the left.  The reason we are in the situation that we are in, with respect to the political environment, is because the left claimed that kids were being brainwashed.  Their claims were that schools, Hollywood, and media (oddly all dominated by the left), promoted the idea that "White is right" and it was the root cause of "systemic racism".  It's what put them on to the Woke ideology.  They're the same people now, like @Fnord (the post he replied to YOU with), who has a problem with people who think that kids are being brainwashed.

My point is, were leftist lying in the past about kids being brainwashed into thinking the whole "white is right" crap or were they right that it was happening and they're doing it now and trying to prevent others from stopping them?  It's one or the other.

So, it's not "But, but.... the other side did it!!!", it's either you lied before or you were right and doing it now and we want you to stop.

[Baker Boy 1,485]

Governor DeSantis introduces Teacher's Bill of Rights

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/governor-desantis-introduces-teachers-bill-of-rights/ar-AA16ES3x

[BuckSwope 654]

43 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

All this time, I thought you were smarter than that.

I was pointing out the irony of the claims from the left.  The reason we are in the situation that we are in, with respect to the political environment, is because the left claimed that kids were being brainwashed.  Their claims were that schools, Hollywood, and media (oddly all dominated by the left), promoted the idea that "White is right" and it was the root cause of "systemic racism".  It's what put them on to the Woke ideology.  They're the same people now, like @Fnord (the post he replied to YOU with), who has a problem with people who think that kids are being brainwashed.

My point is, were leftist lying in the past about kids being brainwashed into thinking the whole "white is right" crap or were they right that it was happening and they're doing it now and trying to prevent others from stopping them?  It's one or the other.

So, it's not "But, but.... the other side did it!!!", it's either you lied before or you were right and doing it now and we want you to stop.

No you didn't.  Like these other tribal posters around here you decided what my opinions and thoughts were before I started posting.  You've told me as much in our interactions.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

1 minute ago, BuckSwope said:

No you didn't.  Like these other tribal posters around here you decided what my opinions and thoughts were before I started posting.  You've told me as much in our interactions.  

Gotchya.  So what you're saying is that I'm right and you have no defense for it. 

[Dizkneelande 839]

2 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

Conservatives aren't banning books?  

 good one.   Only in TX, Virginia, etc.  

it's OK, we disagree.  It just makes all the posts about liberal censorship that much funnier coming from you guys.  I will just fully stop listening to you when it comes to that.  

Can you provide some examples of these “banned” books?

[Dizkneelande 839]

The people that say “CRT isn’t being taught in public schools” sure are mad that Florida isn’t allowing a course that teaches CRT into public schools.