Ohio toxic train derailment

[Strike 5,594]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

The sequence of events began a decade ago in the wake of a major uptick in derailments of trains carrying crude oil and hazardous chemicals, including a New Jersey train crash that leaked the same toxic chemical as in Ohio.

 

In response, the Obama administration in 2014 proposed improving safety regulations for trains carrying petroleum and other hazardous materials. However, after industry pressure, the final measure ended up narrowly focused on the transport of crude oil and exempting trains carrying many other combustible materials, including the chemical involved in this weekend’s disaster.

 

Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails.

 

Specifically, regulators killed provisions requiring rail cars carrying hazardous flammable materials to be equipped with electronic braking systems to stop trains more quickly than conventional air brakes. Norfolk Southern had previously touted the new technology — known as Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) brakes — for its “potential to reduce train stopping distances by as much as 60 percent over conventional air brake systems.”

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/

Obama went half way, and trump instead of completing the job, took the money and bent the knee to corp greed.

 

Apparently , you didn't read the post I asked you to read.  At least read the bolded part where the Biden administration acknowledges that even if the brake rule had been in effect it wouldn't have applied to THIS train.   So yes Trump killed the brake rule, but it wouldn't have mattered anyways.  Please quit muddying up the discussion with misinformation.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,363]

9 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Are you really at the point where you have to blame Biden because he didn't overturn the other guy's crappy policy?    

At that point it's OK to say both administrations f-d up on this issue and most of these things are profit over people, not R/D. 

What I’m saying is two years into an admin you are responsible no matter what the previous did. Maybe if he hired someone who worked in transportation he would have known to make this an issue. 
 

what I do know is that the train company is irresponsible and that the current administration has done nothing to help. So here we are looking for a way to pass blame

day 1 Biden comes out and says we’re not sure what happened or could have been done to prevent this but we will put as much resource as necessary into fixing and helping. I would have supported that. Yet he’s still silent relatively 

[BuckSwope 654]

I listen to too many pods - that info might have been recently on Krystal and Saager.   

Just relaying my understanding that the industry was able to lobby for being able to be lax on classification of materials and the brakes in the last decade or so.  

[GutterBoy 2,899]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

 

Apparently , you didn't read the post I asked you to read.  At least read the bolded part where the Biden administration acknowledges that even if the brake rule had been in effect it wouldn't have applied to THIS train.   So yes Trump killed the brake rule, but it wouldn't have mattered anyways.  Please quit muddying up the discussion with misinformation.

I read what you posted.  There is no misinformation.  If trump did nothing, then Obama's rules still wouldn't have applied to this train.  Trump, instead of strengthening Obama's rules, took the money and got rid of it all.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

Guys, party doesn't matter, these focks don't care about us.  They take money from other rich people to give them what they want.  Wake up.

[The Real timschochet 6,858]

Strike, the interview you linked seems to contradict my argument. Assuming that it’s true, and that there’s no other evidence that would contradict you, then I was wrong to blame Trump. And, I will admit,  perhaps I should take your advice and not jump so quickly to assume arguments that confirm my already held philosophy. 
 

But what is that philosophy? It is, in this instance, that more safety regulations are generally better than less. Since liberals tend to be for more regulations and conservatives for less regulations (though there are exceptions in both cases) I feel comfortable being for the liberal position. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

10 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

The sequence of events began a decade ago in the wake of a major uptick in derailments of trains carrying crude oil and hazardous chemicals, including a New Jersey train crash that leaked the same toxic chemical as in Ohio.

 

In response, the Obama administration in 2014 proposed improving safety regulations for trains carrying petroleum and other hazardous materials. However, after industry pressure, the final measure ended up narrowly focused on the transport of crude oil and exempting trains carrying many other combustible materials, including the chemical involved in this weekend’s disaster.

 

Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails.

 

Specifically, regulators killed provisions requiring rail cars carrying hazardous flammable materials to be equipped with electronic braking systems to stop trains more quickly than conventional air brakes. Norfolk Southern had previously touted the new technology — known as Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) brakes — for its “potential to reduce train stopping distances by as much as 60 percent over conventional air brake systems.”

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/

Obama went half way, and trump instead of completing the job, took the money and bent the knee to corp greed.

How much did they donate to democrats? Warren Buffett is the biggest investor in railroads. He’s known to kick lots of money to democrats.  I’ll hang up and listen. 

[Strike 5,594]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Strike, the interview you linked seems to contradict my argument. Assuming that it’s true, and that there’s no other evidence that would contradict you, then I was wrong to blame Trump. And, I will admit,  perhaps I should take your advice and not jump so quickly to assume arguments that confirm my already held philosophy. 
 

But what is that philosophy? It is, in this instance, that more safety regulations are generally better than less. Since liberals tend to be for more regulations and conservatives for less regulations (though there are exceptions in both cases) I feel comfortable being for the liberal position. 

Interview?  WTF?  I posted an article that details exactly what the brakes you think would have prevented this tragedy do, and WHY that argument doesn't apply to this case, with quotes from Biden admin officials.  It doesn't "seem" to contradict your argument.  It decimates it.  Why can't you just admit you're ignorant and wrong?  It happens so frequently you should wear it as a badge of honor. 

And this has nothing to do with your "philosophy."   It's your constant ignorance and choice (it has to be a choice) of forming an opinion and then working backwards from that opinion instead of using facts, data, and logic to form an opinion.  Or hearing something that supports your worldview and taking it as gospel without confirming it.  If you're going to form a strong opinion on something you should take the time to research the facts.  I just get tired of constantly having to correct FACTS.  We can argue about our worldviews and other non-factual things, but it's a waste of time to have to correct you constantly. 

[RogerDodger 798]

19 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

The sequence of events began a decade ago in the wake of a major uptick in derailments of trains carrying crude oil and hazardous chemicals, including a New Jersey train crash that leaked the same toxic chemical as in Ohio.

 

In response, the Obama administration in 2014 proposed improving safety regulations for trains carrying petroleum and other hazardous materials. However, after industry pressure, the final measure ended up narrowly focused on the transport of crude oil and exempting trains carrying many other combustible materials, including the chemical involved in this weekend’s disaster.

 

Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails.

 

Specifically, regulators killed provisions requiring rail cars carrying hazardous flammable materials to be equipped with electronic braking systems to stop trains more quickly than conventional air brakes. Norfolk Southern had previously touted the new technology — known as Electronically Controlled Pneumatic (ECP) brakes — for its “potential to reduce train stopping distances by as much as 60 percent over conventional air brake systems.”

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/

Obama went half way, and trump instead of completing the job, took the money and bent the knee to corp greed.

Stop with the ECP brake nonsense.  There is video of the train with the broken axel sparking like the car was on fire a full 20 miles ahead of where it finally derailed.  

[Strike 5,594]

Just now, RogerDodger said:

Stop with the ECP brake nonsense.  There is video of the train with the broken axel sparking like the car was on fire a full 20 miles ahead of where it finally derailed.  

He's just trying to save face after I made him and Tim look like ignorant fools again.

[The Real timschochet 6,858]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Interview?  WTF?  I posted an article that details exactly what the brakes you think would have prevented this tragedy do, and WHY that argument doesn't apply to this case, with quotes from Biden admin officials.  It doesn't "seem" to contradict your argument.  It decimates it.  Why can't you just admit you're ignorant and wrong?  It happens so frequently you should wear it as a badge of honor. 

And this has nothing to do with your "philosophy."   It's your constant ignorance and choice (it has to be a choice) of forming an opinion and then working backwards from that opinion instead of using facts, data, and logic to form an opinion.  Or hearing something that supports your worldview and taking it as gospel without confirming it.  If you're going to form a strong opinion on something you should take the time to research the facts.  I just get tired of constantly having to correct FACTS.  We can argue about our worldviews and other non-factual things, but it's a waste of time to have to correct you constantly. 

Sigh. I regret my response. I was forced to offer it because it appears you were right, I was wrong, and I needed to acknowledge that. And yes sometimes you are right to correct me. But not often and certainly not constantly as you proclaim in this post. Actually it’s quite the opposite- you are wrong much more than I am though I don’t expect you to admit it. Because being able to admit when you’re wrong is a sign of maturity and I don’t think you have that quality. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,151]

I am constantly impressed at the experts here in our lightly trafficked message board.  Railroad experts, military generals, political science experts, transformer experts, mental health experts, Environmental experts, doctors...you name it, we have an expert on it.color me impressed.

[TimHauck 2,922]

37 minutes ago, Strike said:

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Par for the course I guess, my point was you’re about a week behind (as are Tim and Gutter apparently).  Funny that you keep telling people to “read the link you just posted” when that information was already posted pages ago.

[Tree of Knowledge 1,879]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I agree that he is responsible as well. (Though in point of fact, creating regulations is much more difficult than removing them.) 

But that doesn’t remove Trump’s culpability. 

It must not have been as pressing as getting rainbow flags at foreign embassies and other nonsense.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

Trump looked good today. Slimmer. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

44 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Stop with the ECP brake nonsense.  There is video of the train with the broken axel sparking like the car was on fire a full 20 miles ahead of where it finally derailed.  

I'm just quoting people who know a hell of a lot more about trains that you and I.  It makes sense that if they stopped the train earlier then all the cars wouldn't have derailed.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

44 minutes ago, Strike said:

He's just trying to save face after I made him and Tim look like ignorant fools again.

Save face?  Is this a popularity contest?  Stop being a child 

[Strike 5,594]

44 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Par for the course I guess, my point was you’re about a week behind (as are Tim and Gutter apparently).  Funny that you keep telling people to “read the link you just posted” when that information was already posted pages ago.

Uh, no.  I'm just correcting them.  Not sure how that makes me a week too late but you do you.

[Strike 5,594]

6 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Save face?  Is this a popularity contest?  Stop being a child 

You mean like you littering up threads with MAGAism's for two days?  That kind of being a child?

[Horseman 2,486]

22 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I'm just quoting people who know a hell of a lot more about trains that you and I.  It makes sense that if they stopped the train earlier then all the cars wouldn't have derailed.

Oh boy, this should be fun. How long do you think it takes for a train to stop?  

[Patented Phil 1,469]

29 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Trump looked good today. Slimmer. 

Classic Trump at the local McDonalds.  “I know your menu better than you do.”  

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

1 minute ago, Patented Phil said:

Classic Trump at the local McDonalds.  “I know your menu better than you do.”  

 

The peoples president. 

[TimHauck 2,922]

11 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

Classic Trump at the local McDonalds.  “I know your menu better than you do.”  

 

lol at this title

 

 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

35 minutes ago, Strike said:

You mean like you littering up threads with MAGAism's for two days?  That kind of being a child?

Posting maga isms is childish?  This site must be kindergarten.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

21 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Oh boy, this should be fun. How long do you think it takes for a train to stop?  

A few inches.

[Strike 5,594]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sigh. I regret my response. I was forced to offer it because it appears you were right, I was wrong, and I needed to acknowledge that. And yes sometimes you are right to correct me. But not often and certainly not constantly as you proclaim in this post. Actually it’s quite the opposite- you are wrong much more than I am though I don’t expect you to admit it. Because being able to admit when you’re wrong is a sign of maturity and I don’t think you have that quality. 

See, the problem with this bored, for you, is that it is a living history.  I post when I prove you wrong, and I prove you wrong with facts, data, and links.  You think you prove people wrong by simply saying they're wrong.  Post ONE link where you've proven me wrong definitively, as I did you in this thread, and have in numerous other threads since you decided to grace us with your presence.  You can't, and won't.  Oh, you'll post some lame excuse for not doing so.  But the fact is you've NEVER proven me wrong, here or at FBG's.  If you do I'll gladly take the L. 

[TimHauck 2,922]

5 minutes ago, Strike said:

 If you do I'll gladly take the L. 

LOL no you won't...

[The Real timschochet 6,858]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

See, the problem with this bored, for you, is that it is a living history.  I post when I prove you wrong, and I prove you wrong with facts, data, and links.  You think you prove people wrong by simply saying they're wrong.  Post ONE link where you've proven me wrong definitively, as I did you in this thread, and have in numerous other threads since you decided to grace us with your presence.  You can't, and won't.  Oh, you'll post some lame excuse for not doing so.  But the fact is you've NEVER proven me wrong, here or at FBG's.  If you do I'll gladly take the L. 

I have proven you wrong before. Plenty of times. And when it happens you either argue some non-sequitur or you disappear. You never own up to it. And you just revealed why: because you regard it as “taking the L”. I don’t. I enjoy it when I’m corrected because it means I learned something. I doubt you ever want to learn anything. 

And no I’m not going to provide you examples. Because I never go back and look up previous posts. I’m not that obsessed about it. 

[Strike 5,594]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I have proven you wrong before. Plenty of times. And when it happens you either argue some non-sequitur or you disappear. You never own up to it. And you just revealed why: because you regard it as “taking the L”. I don’t. I enjoy it when I’m corrected because it means I learned something. I doubt you ever want to learn anything. 

And no I’m not going to provide you examples. Because I never go back and look up previous posts. I’m not that obsessed about it. 

As I said,

Quote

Oh, you'll post some lame excuse for not doing so.

I'll just take another W and be on my way.

[TimHauck 2,922]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

when it happens you either argue some non-sequitur or you disappear. You never own up to it.

nailed it

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

The federal government was very proactive during the Flint water crisis. 

[The Real timschochet 6,858]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

The federal government was very proactive during the Flint water crisis. 

It was? My recollection is that they didn’t do sh!t. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

12 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

It was? My recollection is that they didn’t do sh!t. 

Oh no, Obama declared it a disaster zone. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

6 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Oh no, Obama declared it a disaster zone. 

Obama was terrible and I blame the people that voted for him for most of our problems today.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,515]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Obama was terrible and I blame the people that voted for him for most of our problems today.

Yet you blame everything on Trump. Issues.  

[TimHauck 2,922]

2 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

Obama was terrible and I blame the people that voted for him for most of our problems today.

I’m liking the new schtick.  Use their arguments before they do, quiets them up pretty good

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

13 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s very sad that these people continue to worship Trump. Of course they have the right to do so. But he is the man most responsible for their suffering. If he hadn’t removed Obama’s train regulations this calamity likely would never have happened. 

Post removed.  I see i came late to a discussion which has already taken place.  My input is now long irrelevant.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

12 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Strike, the interview you linked seems to contradict my argument. Assuming that it’s true, and that there’s no other evidence that would contradict you, then I was wrong to blame Trump. And, I will admit,  perhaps I should take your advice and not jump so quickly to assume arguments that confirm my already held philosophy. 
 

But what is that philosophy? It is, in this instance, that more safety regulations are generally better than less. Since liberals tend to be for more regulations and conservatives for less regulations (though there are exceptions in both cases) I feel comfortable being for the liberal position. 

In a vacuum so might I.   But we don't live in a vacuum.  Often times regulations drive those industries capable of relocation to relocate to countries which do not regulate.  That costs American jobs and creates geopolitical power struggles when computer chips, batteries, and medicines now have to be imported.  It makes us dependant, vulnerable, and so more susceptible to wars, both proxy and direct or at least to trade wars and bullying there..

[Horseman 2,486]

9 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I have proven you wrong before. Plenty of times. And when it happens you either argue some non-sequitur or you disappear. You never own up to it. And you just revealed why: because you regard it as “taking the L”. I don’t. I enjoy it when I’m corrected because it means I learned something. I doubt you ever want to learn anything. 

And no I’m not going to provide you examples. Because I never go back and look up previous posts. I’m not that obsessed about it. 

LIAR x4

[Dizkneelande 1,104]

38 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yet you blame everything on Trump. Issues.  

Shocking to see another thread where the board “centrists” blame the last guy for the current guys problems. It has to be some type of derangement syndrome.