Supreme Court considers Biden’s student loan debt relief plan

[easilyscan 936]

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

It's your money, not Joe Biden's that pays for this crap. I care where my money goes. 

People that use government are indifferent, people that pay for it aren't.

[Cloaca du jour 2,151]

Oh boy!!  More handouts...great policy!!  I want my reparations...I paid off my 20k 15 years ago!!

[dogcows 1,030]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sotomayer made an argument today which also bothered me. She stated the practical implications of ruling against Biden- many students will suffer, etc. 

This seems to me to be an “ends justifies the means” argument. Isn’t she basically arguing that we should screw the legal implications and merely consider whether the result will be good or bad? Whether such thinking comes from liberals or conservatives, I don’t like it. 

Part of being a judge is upholding justice. If we never ever considered how laws actually affected human beings, why would we need human judges at all? Just get SCOTUS-BOTS to issue rulings.

It should not be the only factor in the decision, but it should be A factor in the decision.

The biggest question seems to be: does anybody actually have standing to sue? Nobody appears to be hurt by this, and in fact, one of the plaintiffs would be harmed by winning, which was pointed out in the arguments.

I get it - people want to challenge this. But if you want to go through the courts, you should be able to demonstrate that you’re actually being harmed. It’s possible Biden wins because they determine the plaintiffs have no grounds to sue upon.

[lickin_starfish 1,942]

This is not good for inflation or for teaching people to be responsible.

 

That said, at least he's spending some of our money here instead of Ukraine.

[jerryskids 6,856]

10 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Part of being a judge is upholding justice. If we never ever considered how laws actually affected human beings, why would we need human judges at all? Just get SCOTUS-BOTS to issue rulings.

It should not be the only factor in the decision, but it should be A factor in the decision.

The biggest question seems to be: does anybody actually have standing to sue? Nobody appears to be hurt by this, and in fact, one of the plaintiffs would be harmed by winning, which was pointed out in the arguments.

I get it - people want to challenge this. But if you want to go through the courts, you should be able to demonstrate that you’re actually being harmed. It’s possible Biden wins because they determine the plaintiffs have no grounds to sue upon.

We can't allow a system where a POTUS can just give whatever he wants to whatever interest group he wants.  In such scenarios there are no single damaged persons, just the collection of taxpayers. To allow it would be the least "just" possible outcome.

Perhaps a valid question is the extent to which this was an emergency.  I argue it wasn't, and that the students don't "suffer" by being denied an unplanned free gift.

[listen2me 23 1,874]

Like we haven't tried to teach my generation and below enough about lack of any personal responsibilities.   

So Joe Biden is just really trying to stick it to poor kids and families where college was a limited option and didn't go.  Bail out the middle class white kids.  Racisss!  Tim, is seems Biden is adding to white privilege.  

[League Champion 1,911]

5 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

seems Biden is adding to white privilege.  

Yup, it's about as racist as it gets. What about the parents who cashed in their retirements for their kids college or the ones who couldn't afford it to begin with? Where does the handout end? 

[Hawkeye21 2,405]

2 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Yup, it's about as racist as it gets. What about the parents who cashed in their retirements for their kids college or the ones who couldn't afford it to begin with? Where does the handout end? 

Single parents working multiple jobs in order to pay for their kid's college as well.  I was lucky that I didn't have a large amount to pay off and my wife and I had jobs right out of college so we were able to pay ours off in a reasonable amount of time.  I couldn't imagine being a parent like I mentioned and then this happening.  It's a kick in the nuts.

[League Champion 1,911]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's a kick in the nuts.

It's exactly that. Absolutely disgusting 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

4 hours ago, League Champion said:

He shouldn't rescue anyone!!!

How about he pays for MEDICAL DEBT instead. Has anyone considered that?? They chose college, nobody chooses cancer. 

You do if you smoke, and drink, and are fat..

[GutterBoy 2,899]

3 hours ago, Dizkneelande said:

Haven’t we forgiven their loans for the past 3 years? I’m pretty sure the corrupted Dems allowed a pause in student loan repayments for the people who can most afford to repay their loans. 

The pause was under trump.  Along with the trillions of free dollars he gave to everyone, well not everyone, so it wasn't exactly fair.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

Like we haven't tried to teach my generation and below enough about lack of any personal responsibilities.   

So Joe Biden is just really trying to stick it to poor kids and families where college was a limited option and didn't go.  Bail out the middle class white kids.  Racisss!  Tim, is seems Biden is adding to white privilege.  

I'm pretty sure all colors are available, and would assume it's skewed more minorities, but I'm happy to see any data you have.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Single parents working multiple jobs in order to pay for their kid's college as well.  I was lucky that I didn't have a large amount to pay off and my wife and I had jobs right out of college so we were able to pay ours off in a reasonable amount of time.  I couldn't imagine being a parent like I mentioned and then this happening.  It's a kick in the nuts.

I saved a ton, my oldest has a few loans, as will all the kids, it's important that they have some skin in the game, and my wife went back to work recently to help pay as well.  If this went through, my oldest would get her $10k cleared off, and I would be happy about that, not felt kicked in the nuts.

[listen2me 23 1,874]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

I'm pretty sure all colors are available, and would assume it's skewed more minorities, but I'm happy to see any data you have.

I was always told it is the blacks that are disproportionately poor and held back, by Dems.

Idk whats the % of white kids who go to college vs blacks?  If its in proportion then maybe this systematic stuff is a bit far fetched.  If so great get rid of affirmative action.  

Otherwise Biden is just trying to add to white privilege.   

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

6 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I saved a ton, my oldest has a few loans, as will all the kids, it's important that they have some skin in the game, and my wife went back to work recently to help pay as well.  If this went through, my oldest would get her $10k cleared off, and I would be happy about that, not felt kicked in the nuts.

Well, there goes the skin in the game. 

[listen2me 23 1,874]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well, there goes the skin in the game. 

Gutter backed by rusty is supposedly well off with a beautiful big house.  He is looking at his 10k relief as a win.    Yea white privilege.   

[GutterBoy 2,899]

10 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I was always told it is the blacks that are disproportionately poor and held back, by Dems.

Idk whats the % of white kids who go to college vs blacks?  If its in proportion then maybe this systematic stuff is a bit far fetched.  If so great get rid of affirmative action.  

Otherwise Biden is just trying to add to white privilege.   

Black and African American student borrowers are the most likely to struggle financially due to student loan debt making monthly payments of $289. 54% of all student loan debt is held by White and Caucasian student borrowers.Jan 16, 2023

A quick Google search reveals student loan forgiveness helps minorities more than whites, so you're wrong.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well, there goes the skin in the game. 

She still has 2 years left, blart.

[listen2me 23 1,874]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Black and African American student borrowers are the most likely to struggle financially due to student loan debt making monthly payments of $289. 54% of all student loan debt is held by White and Caucasian student borrowers.Jan 16, 2023

A quick Google search reveals student loan forgiveness helps minorities more than whites, so you're wrong.

Ok.   I am fine with being proven wrong.  Thanks for the info.    

[Strike 5,607]

If going to college is too expensive, fix the cost of college.  Duh.  FFS.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,163]

4 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

This post ignores the fact that we’ve been granting debt relief, in one form or another, for decades: to banks, to corporations, to oil companies, to individuals, to whomever politicians tend to favor at the time. You can be against such practices but to pretend that they’re something new under the sun and that doing it this time around will lead to future problems is pretty nonsensical. 

I have to agree with Tim on this here.  This is my reasoning on this as well.  Why is it okay to bail out corporations and give them all kinds of money but when it's given directly to people it's the WORST IDEA EVER!

Now, I get that for those that didn't go to college or paid off their debts this is problematic.  It's not fair so something needs to be done for them as well.  I haven't thought about it hard enough to know what that would look like, though.

If we had not given trillions to corporations, banks and whatever over the last 247 years then I would tell these students to go pound sand, but we haven't.  Not even close.  However, if we do bail the students out something needs to be done about the universities in general - they are WAY overpriced for public institutions and IMO it is a scam and a grift at this point.  The same liberals that run these universities and want to defend "proletariat" and talk about Socialism all day long and how evil and greedy the rich are then are THE SAME ONES turning around and grifting/soaking the students to line their pockets and raising the prices in their scam year after year, decade after decade.

[listen2me 23 1,874]

Lets say this happens jusy for the sake.  Then what? What's the cut off? My kid who goes to college and owes gets nothing or we just keep doing it every 10 years without fixing any heart of thr problem?

[GutterBoy 2,899]

Trump just gave $800B in ppp loans that were forgiven to business owners, mostly rich white people.

Bidens student loan forgiveness is $300B over 30 years

Come on.

[Dizkneelande 1,104]

4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Lets say this happens jusy for the sake.  Then what? What's the cut off? My kid who goes to college and owes gets nothing or we just keep doing it every 10 years without fixing any heart of thr problem?

That’s not important

[Dizkneelande 1,104]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Trump just gave $800B in ppp loans that were forgiven to business owners, mostly rich white people.

Bidens student loan forgiveness is $30B.

Come on.

Check your math

[Dizkneelande 1,104]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Trump just gave $800B in ppp loans that were forgiven to business owners, mostly rich white people.

Bidens student loan forgiveness is $30B.

Come on.

Mostly rich white people? You mean working people of all races that were deemed non-essential, closed down by government and then given back 25% of their typical revenues? Your a special kind of retarded person. 

[League Champion 1,911]

6 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Trump just gave $800B in ppp loans that were forgiven to business owners

No businesses, no jobs. 

Some states are still pushing that COVID BS. 

 

[Strike 5,607]

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/11/10/reluctance-on-the-part-of-its-leadership-to-lead-yales-administration-increases-by-nearly-50-percent/

[GutterBoy 2,899]

9 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Mostly rich white people? You mean working people of all races that were deemed non-essential, closed down by government and then given back 25% of their typical revenues? Your a special kind of retarded person. 

No, they were taken by either businesses that didn't need them or straight up fraudster.  I suggest you read up on ppp loans.

[listen2me 23 1,874]

54 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I saved a ton, my oldest has a few loans, as will all the kids, it's important that they have some skin in the game, and my wife went back to work recently to help pay as well.  If this went through, my oldest would get her $10k cleared off, and I would be happy about that, not felt kicked in the nuts.

So you make bank and have a beautiful home.  You couldn't pay the 10k off? Or at least give you kid a 0% loan? Instead jump for joy when a middle class family from the sticks with no kids in college pay for it? Ok.

[League Champion 1,911]

It's like banning plastic straws but handing out free needles? 

[RogerDodger 798]

PPP loans during a "pandemic" when the government forced "non-essential" businesses to close is totally the same as student load forgiveness now.  

[listen2me 23 1,874]

Just now, RogerDodger said:

PPP loans during a "pandemic" when the government forced "non-essential" businesses to close is totally the same as student load forgiveness now.  

Yeah its a crazy post.  Talk about apples to oranges.  

[GutterBoy 2,899]

11 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

So you make bank and have a beautiful home.  You couldn't pay the 10k off? Or at least give you kid a 0% loan? Instead jump for joy when a middle class family from the sticks with no kids in college pay for it? Ok.

I could pay it off, and it is a 0% loan.  I told her I would help her pay it off if she needs it and we can.  You don't have to make a payment until graduation, so it's free money for 4 years, and might even be forgiven.  Smart.

[listen2me 23 1,874]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

I could pay it off, and it is a 0% loan.  I told her I would help her pay it off if she needs it and we can.  You don't have to make a payment until graduation, so it's free money for 4 years, and might even be forgiven.  Smart.

Whoever was planning on paying would now be a welfare recipient.   Not bad for upper middle class.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

8 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

PPP loans during a "pandemic" when the government forced "non-essential" businesses to close is totally the same as student load forgiveness now.  

It's loan forgiveness.  Most ppp loans were taken out by people that didn't need them or by fraudster.  $800B, all at once.

The student loans forgiveness is $10B a year for 30 years.  Very small in comparison.

But no issues with what trump did, right?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

I saw the protesters at the Supreme Court in favor of this. They look exactly like you think they would. 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29669#:~:text=With 93 percent of small,K per job-year retained.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2020/12/02/new-ppp-loan-data-reveals-most-of-the-525-billion-given-out-went-to-larger-businesses-some-with-trump-kushner-ties/

https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp-loans-economists

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biggest-fraud-generation-looting-covid-relief-program-known-ppp-n1279664

 

[Gladiators 1,995]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29669#:~:text=With 93 percent of small,K per job-year retained.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2020/12/02/new-ppp-loan-data-reveals-most-of-the-525-billion-given-out-went-to-larger-businesses-some-with-trump-kushner-ties/

https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp-loans-economists

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biggest-fraud-generation-looting-covid-relief-program-known-ppp-n1279664

 

Nice whataboutism…I agree, the PPP was stupid.

Student loan forgiveness is even more stupid.

[RogerDodger 798]

39 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

It's loan forgiveness.  Most ppp loans were taken out by people that didn't need them or by fraudster.  $800B, all at once.

The student loans forgiveness is $10B a year for 30 years.  Very small in comparison.

But no issues with what trump did, right?

The Cares Act was bipartisan down the line homo. You’re not that retarded are you?  And it was an act, passed by congress. 

Now do Biden.