Supreme Court considers Biden’s student loan debt relief plan

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

Today the SC considered President Biden’s student loan debt relief plan. 
 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/student-loan-forgiveness-scotus-arguments-02-28-23/index.html

So here’s what I think: I am in favor of some sort of debt relief plan. The unfairness of it doesn’t bother me; I think our economy will benefit if these college grads have more money in their pockets to purchase homes, home ownership being IMO the key to a strong and prosperous society. So that’s basically why I’m for it. 

But I don’t like the way Biden went about it, and if the conservative members of the Supreme Court decide that Biden does not have the authority to do this of his own accord, I’m inclined to agree with them.

In general I am troubled about how each President we’ve had, regardless of political party, keeps attempting to take more and more executive power away from Congress. I get that a big reason for this is that we are so divided on issues as a country that it’s extremely difficult to get any kind of significant legislation passed, because half the nation always seems to oppose whatever it is. But that’s too bad. We need to find a way to resolve that problem, and giving the President too much authority is not the way to do it. 

Thoughts? 

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

Sotomayer made an argument today which also bothered me. She stated the practical implications of ruling against Biden- many students will suffer, etc. 

This seems to me to be an “ends justifies the means” argument. Isn’t she basically arguing that we should screw the legal implications and merely consider whether the result will be good or bad? Whether such thinking comes from liberals or conservatives, I don’t like it. 

[League Champion 1,593]

Imagine that you're dumb enough to pay 100,000+ for a useless Liberal Arts degree that pays $35,000 a year if you're lucky.

And then cry about how you can't find a job that pays enough to support yourself. 

Joe Biden to the rescue!!!!!! 

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

1 minute ago, League Champion said:

Imagine that you're dumb enough to pay 100,000+ for a useless Liberal Arts degree that pays $35,000 a year if you're lucky.

And then cry about how you can't find a job that pays enough to support yourself. 

Joe Biden to the rescue!!!!!! 

Presumably it would rescue science majors as well, right? 

[posty 2,296]

No relief should be given...  They went to college and should know that they would probably accumulate debt...  If they didn't want the debt, they could have gone and done something else...

Maybe they need to work on the price of college and making it much less than what it currently is...  Tuition does NOT need to be that high...

Biden is already a tool, so of course he will continue to push this where everyone has to pay for the graduate that can't pay off their student loan debt with a terrible degree...

[League Champion 1,593]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Presumably it would rescue science majors as well, right? 

He shouldn't rescue anyone!!!

How about he pays for MEDICAL DEBT instead. Has anyone considered that?? They chose college, nobody chooses cancer. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

the flaw with a student debt relief plan is that it will never be a one-time thing. if liberals can get it established that debt relief by the government is an acceptable norm, it will become an issue in every election going forward.  they will tell the poor "go ahead, run up debt.  if you vote for me, i will forgive it all".  the economy will get obliterated.

its just like anything else.  once they get a foothold, they push it to the utter extreme. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,700]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sotomayer made an argument today which also bothered me. She stated the practical implications of ruling against Biden- many students will suffer, etc. 

This seems to me to be an “ends justifies the means” argument. Isn’t she basically arguing that we should screw the legal implications and merely consider whether the result will be good or bad? Whether such thinking comes from liberals or conservatives, I don’t like it. 

What did you buy with your PPE money? 

[League Champion 1,593]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Presumably it would rescue science majors as well, right? 

He shouldn't rescue anyone!!!

How about he pays for MEDICAL DEBT instead. Has anyone considered that?? They chose college, nobody chooses cancer

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

Just now, League Champion said:

He shouldn't rescue anyone!!!

How about he pays for MEDICAL DEBT instead. Has anyone considered that?? They chose college, nobody chooses cancer. 

Well first off you’re not addressing the main point of my thread, which is that Biden doesn’t have the authority to do this on his own, so the SC would be right to overturn it. 
 

Second, you and others seem to be focused on the injustice issue- and I get that. I am more focused on the question of whether or not debt relief is advantageous to us as a society- and I think it would be. But again, it has to be done legislatively and not by executive order. 

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

What did you buy with your PPE money? 

I didn’t get any. But I also don’t understand the relevancy of your question. 

[Fireballer 2,391]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

 The unfairness of it doesn’t bother me;  

The least surprising thing on the internet today.

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

3 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

the flaw with a student debt relief plan is that it will never be a one-time thing. if liberals can get it established that debt relief by the government is an acceptable norm, it will become an issue in every election going forward.  they will tell the poor "go ahead, run up debt.  if you vote for me, i will forgive it all".  the economy will get obliterated.

its just like anything else.  once they get a foothold, they push it to the utter extreme. 

This post ignores the fact that we’ve been granting debt relief, in one form or another, for decades: to banks, to corporations, to oil companies, to individuals, to whomever politicians tend to favor at the time. You can be against such practices but to pretend that they’re something new under the sun and that doing it this time around will lead to future problems is pretty nonsensical. 

[League Champion 1,593]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well first off you’re not addressing the main point of my thread, which is that Biden doesn’t have the authority to do this on his own, so the SC would be right to overturn it. 
 

Second, you and others seem to be focused on the injustice issue- and I get that. I am more focused on the question of whether or not debt relief is advantageous to us as a society- and I think it would be. But again, it has to be done legislatively and not by executive order. 

The whole idea is crap. There's more to worry about than student loans. It's no different than buying anything else. Can I get Biden to pay off my house or car??

It's all bullshizz 

 

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

The least surprising thing on the internet today.

We have never lived in a society in which laws have been based on fairness for all. 

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

Just now, League Champion said:

The whole idea is crap. There's more to worry about than student loans. It's no different than buying anything else. Can I get Biden to pay off my house or car??

It's all bullshizz 

 

Again your objection is based on unfairness- in this case to you personally. Because somebody else is reaping a benefit and not you. 
 

Your response is perfectly justifiable, but don’t you see we can’t possibly govern based on that? 

[Cdub100 3,390]

Forgive all student loans (Minorities only white people are rich and privileged) and pay black people 5 Million in reparations. 

Why is this so hard? Money printer go Brrrrrr

Also, we should send a few more billion to Ukraine and Isreal.

[League Champion 1,593]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because somebody else is reaping a benefit and not you. 

It's your money, not Joe Biden's that pays for this crap. I care where my money goes. 

[RLLD 3,455]

On this I will stand with Biden and Pelosi....well, I stand with them back when they acknowledged this is not legal, and they could not do it.  I stand with those versions of the two....

[Fireballer 2,391]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

We have never lived in a society in which laws have been based on fairness for all. 

LMAO...is that so, Mr Systemic Racism?  

[Engorgeous George 1,201]

The HEROES act authorizes relief during an emergency. The legislative history considered "'emergency" to be country under attack or perceived attack which might necessitate military service making loans hard to repay, during that service.  The contemplation was for relief more so than foregiveness and for an actual emergency, like the towers coming down or an invasion of an ally.  It was not for a cold which took fewer than 1% of our population, mostly, though not exclusively, the old and/or infirm.  It certainly was not for a cold, the height of the spread of which is past and where the President has publically declared the emergency over, right up until he realized he stepped in it and then tried to parse that public declaration so he could continue with buying votes. 

 

Nationally this is not debt relief.  The nation has this debt one way or the other.  There is no magic money.  Printing it does not create it no matter what some believe.  The nation still has this debt, only now I and others hold that debt while the irresponsible do not learn the consequences of their actions and are therefore likely to learn greater irresponsibility, not less.

 

If you want to pay down their debt with your own money great.  If you can convince millions of others to do so with their money, great.  Just leave me out of paying for your generosity.

[supermike80 1,289]

48 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Today the SC considered President Biden’s student loan debt relief plan. 
 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/student-loan-forgiveness-scotus-arguments-02-28-23/index.html

So here’s what I think: I am in favor of some sort of debt relief plan. The unfairness of it doesn’t bother me; I think our economy will benefit if these college grads have more money in their pockets to purchase homes, home ownership being IMO the key to a strong and prosperous society. So that’s basically why I’m for it. 

But I don’t like the way Biden went about it, and if the conservative members of the Supreme Court decide that Biden does not have the authority to do this of his own accord, I’m inclined to agree with them.

In general I am troubled about how each President we’ve had, regardless of political party, keeps attempting to take more and more executive power away from Congress. I get that a big reason for this is that we are so divided on issues as a country that it’s extremely difficult to get any kind of significant legislation passed, because half the nation always seems to oppose whatever it is. But that’s too bad. We need to find a way to resolve that problem, and giving the President too much authority is not the way to do it. 

Thoughts? 

Problem I see is the people who will get the benefit don't seem to be interested in buying homes.  Yeah they will piss it away on frivolous things.  Take vacations they can't afford, buy things they shouldn't.  I don't see the housing issue getting better from this.

And I am 1000% against the fogtivenes.  And the fairness is a big factor to me

[Hawkeye21 1,858]

1 hour ago, League Champion said:

He shouldn't rescue anyone!!!

How about he pays for MEDICAL DEBT instead. Has anyone considered that?? They chose college, nobody chooses cancer. 

I'd much rather have medical debt be forgiven.  These kids went to college knowing they would have to pay that back, so pay it.  It's as if they were required to go to college.

[Alias Detective 1,180]

56 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

The unfairness of it doesn’t bother me

Eat  shlt.  

[The Real timschochet 2,989]

2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Problem I see is the people who will get the benefit don't seem to be interested in buying homes.  Yeah they will piss it away on frivolous things.  Take vacations they can't afford, buy things they shouldn't.  I don't see the housing issue getting better from this.

And I am 1000% against the fogtivenes.  And the fairness is a big factor to me

If the majority of the public, or even half, agrees with you (and honestly I suspect this is the case), then my side shouldn’t win. We should only win if we can convince you to change your minds. If we can’t, we shouldn’t be allowed to force our way on you through executive order. And that’s the problem with Biden’s position. 

[supermike80 1,289]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

If the majority of the public, or even half, agrees with you (and honestly I suspect this is the case), then my side shouldn’t win. We should only win if we can convince you to change your minds. If we can’t, we shouldn’t be allowed to force our way on you through executive order. And that’s the problem with Biden’s position. 

I agree.  Sets a bad precedent for the next President..and so on.  

[Alias Detective 1,180]

Wife and I saved and used investments to fund children’s college.  No loans.  I guess I should have purchased another boat and borrowed money for college instead.

[Hawkeye21 1,858]

3 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

Wife and I saved and used investments to fund children’s college.  No loans.  I guess I should have purchased another boat and borrowed money for college instead.

There's nothing wrong with borrowing money and enjoying things in life, just make sure it's paid back.

[Dizkneelande 839]

17 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm much rather have medical debt be forgiven.  These kids went to college knowing they would have to pay that back, so pay it.  It's as if they were required to go to college.

We forgive medical debt every time one of the 40 million illegal aliens in this country goes to the hospital.

[Hawkeye21 1,858]

1 minute ago, Dizkneelande said:

We forgive medical debt every time one of the 40 million illegal aliens in this country goes to the hospital.

Can't have debt if you're not charged for it.

[Dizkneelande 839]

Haven’t we forgiven their loans for the past 3 years? I’m pretty sure the corrupted Dems allowed a pause in student loan repayments for the people who can most afford to repay their loans. 

[Dizkneelande 839]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Can't have debt if you're not charged for it.

No, hospital visits are free as is the labor of the people in the hospitals treating them.

[Mike Honcho 4,042]

20 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Today the SC considered President Biden’s student loan debt relief plan. 
 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/student-loan-forgiveness-scotus-arguments-02-28-23/index.html

So here’s what I think: I am in favor of some sort of debt relief plan. The unfairness of it doesn’t bother me; I think our economy will benefit if these college grads have more money in their pockets to purchase homes, home ownership being IMO the key to a strong and prosperous society. So that’s basically why I’m for it. 

But I don’t like the way Biden went about it, and if the conservative members of the Supreme Court decide that Biden does not have the authority to do this of his own accord, I’m inclined to agree with them.

In general I am troubled about how each President we’ve had, regardless of political party, keeps attempting to take more and more executive power away from Congress. I get that a big reason for this is that we are so divided on issues as a country that it’s extremely difficult to get any kind of significant legislation passed, because half the nation always seems to oppose whatever it is. But that’s too bad. We need to find a way to resolve that problem, and giving the President too much authority is not the way to do it. 

Thoughts? 

My problem with it is the court is deciding things using this made up "Major Questions Doctrine", instead of reading the law. You might not like the way he went about it, but the Heros' act is pretty straight forward that congress gave the President the authority to do what he did. Debt relief during national emergency--check

Also, neither of these plaintiffs has standing to even argue this case. Made clear by SCOTUS in the questioning.  Both cases should be tossed just due to that. 

[posty 2,296]

29 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm much rather have medical debt be forgiven.  These kids went to college knowing they would have to pay that back, so pay it.  It's as if they were required to go to college.

/thread

[Alias Detective 1,180]

22 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

There's nothing wrong with borrowing money and enjoying things in life, just make sure it's paid back.

In this case the payer backer would be the Federal Government.  That is absurd.

[BuckSwope 654]

41 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'd much rather have medical debt be forgiven.  These kids went to college knowing they would have to pay that back, so pay it.  It's as if they were required to go to college.

1000%

[JustinCharge 2,397]

48 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'd much rather have medical debt be forgiven.  These kids went to college knowing they would have to pay that back, so pay it.  It's as if they were required to go to college.

no.  the incredible high cost of health care is good pressure to encourage people to find lower-cost solutions like medical tourism or establishing a system where a private firm can provide health care at a reduced rate.  the free market will work itself out.  we dont need to bankrupt the nation by forgiving debt everywhere. 

Here is the medical tourism cost of surgery in India:
 

heart bypass: $5k
angioplasty: $3k
hip replacement: $7k
knee replacement: $6k
spinal fusion: $6k
lasik: $500
 

https://www.medicalindiatourism.com/treatment-cost.html

[TheNewGirl 1,036]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Today the SC considered President Biden’s student loan debt relief plan. 
 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/politics/live-news/student-loan-forgiveness-scotus-arguments-02-28-23/index.html

So here’s what I think: I am in favor of some sort of debt relief plan. The unfairness of it doesn’t bother me; I think our economy will benefit if these college grads have more money in their pockets to purchase homes, home ownership being IMO the key to a strong and prosperous society. So that’s basically why I’m for it. 

But I don’t like the way Biden went about it, and if the conservative members of the Supreme Court decide that Biden does not have the authority to do this of his own accord, I’m inclined to agree with them.

In general I am troubled about how each President we’ve had, regardless of political party, keeps attempting to take more and more executive power away from Congress. I get that a big reason for this is that we are so divided on issues as a country that it’s extremely difficult to get any kind of significant legislation passed, because half the nation always seems to oppose whatever it is. But that’s too bad. We need to find a way to resolve that problem, and giving the President too much authority is not the way to do it. 

Thoughts? 

More money in their pockets likely won't = home ownership. You have to have nearly 20% down and in some states that could be 50k - that's a lot to to try and save. It will. likely go to rent vs buying, maybe a car if you're thinking larger purchases. At any rate, they will be able to spend that extra $500 or whatever. But your benefit being home ownership just seems really unlikely IMO. 

The only thing that really worries me (as others have mentioned) is that it again sets precedent that the govt will bail you out. Credit card debt? Meh, we got YOU! Obama phones? Here ya go. Student loan debt? BOOM! Gone. Eschewing personal responsibility because Big Bruh is there to bail you out. And (also as mentioned) it will become another voting issue, "I'll KEEP the student loan debt forgiveness going if you vote for me vs the other guy!" 

I see some benefit to it, but not enough for it to be passed, really. 

And I have student loan debt. I'd love for it to be gone with the SCOTUS vote, but not enough to fock things up. more. 

 

I have a friend working on her doctorate right now, racking up student loan debt primarily with the hope that govt will eventually pay for it. That's the mindset *I* see. 

[jerryskids 5,213]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Again your objection is based on unfairness- in this case to you personally. Because somebody else is reaping a benefit and not you. 
 

Your response is perfectly justifiable, but don’t you see we can’t possibly govern based on that? 

I don't agree with this Keynesian approach. Further, there is nothing in this forgiveness which addresses the fundamental problems (like, borrowing money with no plan to repay, lending money to such people, or colleges charging outrageous amounts because the first two continue on). So this is an attempt to buy votes with my money IMO.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

10 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

More money in their pockets likely won't = home ownership. You have to have nearly 20% down and in some states that could be 50k

apartments are zooming past $2k per month for a reason.  $50k isnt that difficult anymore.

worst case scenario is you save $15k, buy a motor home, live in it for 1-2 years, sell the motor home to get your money back and theres your $50k.

and thats only if you dont have parents to fall back on where you can stay with them for 2 years to save up $50k.