Supreme Court considers Biden’s student loan debt relief plan

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,237]

24 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Another lie.  Again, we need to use data and facts, not racist tropes from social media.

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-race

Black and African American college graduates owe an average of $25,000 more in student loan debt than White college graduates.

Four years after graduation, Black students owe an average of 188% more than White students borrowed.

Black and African American student borrowers are the most likely to struggle financially due to student loan debt making monthly payments of $250.

Oh well. Not my responsibility 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

4 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Oh well. Not my responsibility 

And that's fine.  I'm kinda on the fence. I think there are better solutions.

As with all decisions, we need to make sure we know all the facts.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,237]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

And that's fine.  I'm kinda on the fence. I think there are better solutions.

As with all decisions, we need to make sure we know all the facts.

Simplest solution. If liberals think college debt should be paid off set up a fund where people can donate to it and distribute it.  I have a feeling just like everything else liberals cry about wanting to do they wouldn’t actually step up. As we’ve seen with illegals 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Another lie.  Again, we need to use data and facts, not racist tropes from social media.

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-race

Black and African American college graduates owe an average of $25,000 more in student loan debt than White college graduates.

Four years after graduation, Black students owe an average of 188% more than White students borrowed.

Black and African American student borrowers are the most likely to struggle financially due to student loan debt making monthly payments of $250.

Oh. I didn’t know the loan forgiveness was just for those struggling. It’s for every one with a loan, so I don’t know why you’re breaking it down on ability to pay. Perhaps it should have been about that.  It isn’t. And the large majority of those that  would have had loans forgiven are white people, who, as you have said, are doing fine. Try again. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,838]

23 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Simplest solution. If liberals think college debt should be paid off set up a fund where people can donate to it and distribute it.  I have a feeling just like everything else liberals cry about wanting to do they wouldn’t actually step up. As we’ve seen with illegals 

Dollar for dollar, conservatives donate 100x more than liberals do.  So for all of their talk about wanting to help people, it's just that - talk.  They want others to help people, not themselves.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

12 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Dollar for dollar, conservatives donate 100x more than liberals do.  So for all of their talk about wanting to help people, it's just that - talk.  They want others to help people, not themselves.

Can you back up this claim with data?

[League Champion 1,896]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Can you back up this claim with data?

I think that's pretty obvious. Liberals are takers, not givers. 

[dogcows 1,030]

8 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

Help me understand, which lenders specifically are you referring to for this added benefit?  Since student debt is not dischargeable, I'm failing to follow the logic on how lenders suffer if we do not step in with taxpayer funds to bail out those with this debt.  I'm not advocating for bailouts, but wouldn't something like home mortgage debt forgiveness back in the crisis of '08 been more productive?  In that case we wouldn't have restricted the relief to those who could qualify for college and we would have been helping pay debt that could be discharged if helping lenders is what you truly value.  I personally wouldn't agree with that either, but just pointing out the flaw from a purely financial perspective on why student loan debt forgiveness would be less beneficial than some other forms of subsidized debt relief.  

I'm all for lowering costs, that is a worthwhile goal.  So would be improving our education standards and results, we should all want that.  But if anything, debt forgiveness will be inflationary in that it only is going to encourage even more spending in a college education, specifically in those degrees that we've discussed that do not yield enough future income streams to pay for that debt.  There isn't an easy fix to the cost side problem.  My personal opinion is we've done ourselves a great disservice in trying to shoehorn too many people into colleges versus other fields that we also need and would provide good standards of living.  Just think about the last time you called your HVAC person or a plumber, how much you paid them to come.  That is, if you can even find a qualified person you trust to work on your property.  

 

First paragraph: It’s highly unlikely that $400 billion would have an inflationary effect on an economy the size of ours. As for targeting, it makes a lot of sense. College debt is more likely to target younger people, many of whom rent… so these people would get no benefit from mortgage relief. Next, this money would be more likely to enter the economy rapidly than the same amount of mortgage relief. And helping young grads has a longer-term economic effect, as keeping these people out of economic trouble means they are far more likely to succeed in the next decades. Helping lenders is a nice bonus, but not the primary benefit.

Second paragraph: This was part of my point regarding Germany’s education system. It’s much more focused on vocational training than our system. They have fewer university slots, and those who don’t demonstrate the aptitude for them get vocational training or they could still pursue higher Ed if their parents have the cash. Their system tries to build a workforce the country needs. Ours tries to get the most money out of each student.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,237]

19 minutes ago, dogcows said:

First paragraph: It’s highly unlikely that $400 billion would have an inflationary effect on an economy the size of ours. As for targeting, it makes a lot of sense. College debt is more likely to target younger people, many of whom rent… so these people would get no benefit from mortgage relief. Next, this money would be more likely to enter the economy rapidly than the same amount of mortgage relief. And helping young grads has a longer-term economic effect, as keeping these people out of economic trouble means they are far more likely to succeed in the next decades. Helping lenders is a nice bonus, but not the primary benefit.

Second paragraph: This was part of my point regarding Germany’s education system. It’s much more focused on vocational training than our system. They have fewer university slots, and those who don’t demonstrate the aptitude for them get vocational training or they could still pursue higher Ed if their parents have the cash. Their system tries to build a workforce the country needs. Ours tries to get the most money out of each student.

how many people have college debt?

how about this, if you are under 25 and have college debt you get assigned a Biden voter over 35 to pay off your debt

I'll pay for my son's education or he can pay for it himself, but the rest of the kids in this country can fock off

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

57 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Can you back up this claim with data?

Yeah how about the New York Times you insufferable leftist sh!t. They had to use taxes paid to narrow the gap.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/your-money/republicans-democrats-charity-philanthropy.html

Red counties, which are overwhelmingly Republican, tend to report higher charitable contributions than Democratic-dominated blue counties, according to a new study on giving, although giving in blue counties is often bolstered by a combination of charitable donations and higher taxes.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

5 hours ago, Dizkneelande said:

Yeah how about the New York Times you insufferable leftist sh!t. They had to use taxes paid to narrow the gap.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/your-money/republicans-democrats-charity-philanthropy.html

Red counties, which are overwhelmingly Republican, tend to report higher charitable contributions than Democratic-dominated blue counties, according to a new study on giving, although giving in blue counties is often bolstered by a combination of charitable donations and higher taxes.

It's behind a firewall.  Can you copy the 100x text?  I bet you can't, you made that up.

Anyway yes Republicans donate more, typically rich Republicans.  It's not 100x.  And it includes churches, which aren't charity, or shouldn't be.  That's a scam.

[RLLD 4,143]

12 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

how many people have college debt?

how about this, if you are under 25 and have college debt you get assigned a Biden voter over 35 to pay off your debt

I'll pay for my son's education or he can pay for it himself, but the rest of the kids in this country can fock off

Sounds fair to me.

But keep in mind that Biden told us from the outset he could.not do this. He knew he would never get this through.

This was never about helping anyone. This little move was always about pandering to a group of voters where Dems were facing weakness prior to the last election event.

And then being able to blame Republicans. So Biden can portray himself as the good guy, then vilify his opponents.

Say why you want about Dems, they are masterful at the messaging and manipulation of the weak minded 

[KSB2424 3,148]

This has less to do with IF it should happen or if it’s “legal” or “right to do”.   And more to do with how our government is designed to work.  Joe Biden isn’t King.  Laws and bills and policies go through certain checks and balances in America, the Biden Administration tried the ole run around with Student Debt Relief and was called out.  

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

Total student loan debt is so crazy high because the government guarantees these dumb loans and the universities are allowed to operate as giant tax-sheltered hedge funds. This problem accelerated when Obama federalized the student loan program and gave out massive sums to kids who weren’t qualified to swing a hammer. Keep in mind that all of this crap is entirely controlled and run by leftists who pay themselves obscene salaries to administer or teach one class a week like the fake Indian use to do for 350k per year. 

This is not hard to fix. But, for some reason the left doesn’t want to actually fix it because they suck and they can’t make a decent living in the private sector and need to grift off the government like dogcows. 

Individual student loan debt is relatively low on average and a typical used car loan is less than the average student loan debt. This is another lie by the left which is all they have because once again, they suck. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

9 hours ago, Dizkneelande said:

Total student loan debt is so crazy high because the government guarantees these dumb loans and the universities are allowed to operate as giant tax-sheltered hedge funds. This problem accelerated when Obama federalized the student loan program and gave out massive sums to kids who weren’t qualified to swing a hammer. Keep in mind that all of this crap is entirely controlled and run by leftists who pay themselves obscene salaries to administer or teach one class a week like the fake Indian use to do for 350k per year. 

Nailed it. 

Costs are out of control because we backed them to be.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

Costs are also high because liberals won’t send their kids to state schools because they don’t want their kids around blacks and other poors.  

[RLLD 4,143]

 

Now hold on just a minute, didnt Trump do this with regard to the border wall?  I am pretty sure he paid for that using some alternative means.....I think they just need to STFU on this.

[Reality 3,097]

I didn't read all this, it's pure garbage that people borrowed money and couldn't pay off their own loans because they got a degree in a useless field.

Maybe y'all covered this but, I do recall this though, student loans were actually part of the Obamacare CBO estimates... 

Gotta love it...

According to the Congressional Budget Office, $8.7 billion of the money collected in student loan interest payments actually goes to pay for ObamaCare. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/-morris/151801-loans-subsidize-obamacare/

[Ultra Max Power 214]

26 minutes ago, Reality said:

I didn't read all this, it's pure garbage that people borrowed money and couldn't pay off their own loans because they got a degree in a useless field.

Maybe y'all covered this but, I do recall this though, student loans were actually part of the Obamacare CBO estimates... 

Gotta love it...

According to the Congressional Budget Office, $8.7 billion of the money collected in student loan interest payments actually goes to pay for ObamaCare. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/-morris/151801-loans-subsidize-obamacare/

Damn... so if we forgave those loans people would lose Healthcare?!?!  Good thing that didn't happen. 

[BuckSwope 654]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:58 PM, GutterBoy said:

It's behind a firewall.  Can you copy the 100x text?  I bet you can't, you made that up.

Anyway yes Republicans donate more, typically rich Republicans.  It's not 100x.  And it includes churches, which aren't charity, or shouldn't be.  That's a scam.

That was my first thought - what % is because of church?   

Or to the rich part (regardless of political lean), how much of the elite's "charity" is just cycled back to them and their pet causes?   

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:58 PM, GutterBoy said:

It's behind a firewall.  Can you copy the 100x text?  I bet you can't, you made that up.

Anyway yes Republicans donate more, typically rich Republicans.  It's not 100x.  And it includes churches, which aren't charity, or shouldn't be.  That's a scam.

I made it up? You’re the dumbest phuck here.

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

1 hour ago, BuckSwope said:

That was my first thought - what % is because of church?   

Or to the rich part (regardless of political lean), how much of the elite's "charity" is just cycled back to them and their pet causes?   

Another retard. Churches don’t provide charity that’s what you are going with? 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

Just now, Dizkneelande said:

I made it up? You’re the dumbest phuck here.

Yes you made it up.  Prove me wrong.

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

Yes you made it up.  Prove me wrong.

It’s directly from the article you imbecile.

Here google the quote I posted and see what shows up moron 

https://search.brave.com/search?q=Red counties%2C which are overwhelmingly Republican%2C tend to report higher charitable contributions than Democratic-dominated blue counties%2C according to a new study on giving%2C although giving in blue counties is often bolstered by a combination of charitable donations and higher taxes.&source=ios

[GutterBoy 2,898]

1 minute ago, Dizkneelande said:

It’s directly from the article you imbecile.

Here google the quote I posted and see what shows up moron 

https://search.brave.com/search?q=Red counties%2C which are overwhelmingly Republican%2C tend to report higher charitable contributions than Democratic-dominated blue counties%2C according to a new study on giving%2C although giving in blue counties is often bolstered by a combination of charitable donations and higher taxes.&source=ios

Nothing about 100x.  You made it up.  You're a jack ass.

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Nothing about 100x.  You made it up.  You're a jack ass.

Where did I state 100x sh!tlib?  I didn’t. You’re a special kind of stupid. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:00 AM, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Dollar for dollar, conservatives donate 100x more than liberals do. 

Never said it

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

2 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

Where did I state 100x sh!tlib?  I didn’t. You’re a special kind of stupid. 

We’re also better tippers you cheap pr!ck

https://fortune.com/2017/07/10/best-tippers-republicans-democrats/amp/

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Never said it

That’s not me you retard 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

Just now, Dizkneelande said:

That’s not me you retard 

Then why did you reply to my post asking for data to support that claim?

[Dizkneelande 1,085]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Then why did you reply to my post asking for data to support that claim?

You need to step away from this place I’ve never seen someone take so many losses in my life and keep coming back for more. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

2 minutes ago, Dizkneelande said:

You need to step away from this place I’ve never seen someone take so many losses in my life and keep coming back for more. 

So you're not defending the 100x statement?  Because that's what I asked for the supporting data.

Otherwise you just wasted everyone's time, including yourself.

[KSB2424 3,148]

All these big schools y’all are talking about have huge billion dollar endowments. All the while charging exorbitant amounts of money, all the while our government handing out loans like tic tacs.  

That problem and issue is on the student (borrower), the University and the government (lender).   Those three need to figure it out.  

Joe and Jane taxpayer is not involved.  

[dogcows 1,030]

This is better than forgiving student loans.

https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-legislature-college-tuition-free-7a229e7fa33fdf8d302f1d3e716b7ad6

Quote

Qualifying students would have to attend a two- or four-year school in either the University of Minnesota or Minnesota State systems, or a tribal college. Private college tuition would not be covered.

Eligible students would have to be Minnesota residents with an adjusted gross family income below $80,000, be enrolled in at least one credit per semester, be in good academic standing, not have already earned a bachelor’s degree, and complete the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, which determines their state and federal grant eligibility. The program would cover any tuition costs left after state and federal grants and institutional scholarships have been applied.

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,838]

20 minutes ago, dogcows said:

This is better than forgiving student loans.

https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-legislature-college-tuition-free-7a229e7fa33fdf8d302f1d3e716b7ad6

 

No, it's not, because it's doesn't include everyone.  Equality?  Not even close. 

Always dividing, you and your side.  GTFO.

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

thank god they shot down this idiotic nonsense.  

imagine during the mortgage crisis if the solution had been to forgive mortgage loan debt rather than tackling the source of the problem (needing MUCH stricter lending policies for banks)

[dogcows 1,030]

30 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

thank god they shot down this idiotic nonsense.  

imagine during the mortgage crisis if the solution had been to forgive mortgage loan debt rather than tackling the source of the problem (needing MUCH stricter lending policies for banks)

Imagine - the recession could have been much shorter and far fewer people would have lost their homes. And the banks would still have gotten the same amount of bailout money… except it would have benefitted homeowners too. And there’s no reason they couldn’t have also tightened the lending rules along with that. The 2 aren’t mutually exclusive. 

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

4 hours ago, dogcows said:

Imagine - the recession could have been much shorter and far fewer people would have lost their homes. And the banks would still have gotten the same amount of bailout money… except it would have benefitted homeowners too. And there’s no reason they couldn’t have also tightened the lending rules along with that. The 2 aren’t mutually exclusive. 

imagine people choosing to borrow money, knowing they may not be able to afford to pay it back or that it may be tight, choosing to do so anyway and then being told "oh, hey, don't worry about it"... it's a great way to teach fiscal responsibility. 

handouts do nothing but perpetuate poor decision making. 

No one forces a person to take out a student loan. You have the choice to go somewhere less expensive or maybe not go at all. If you choose to borrow money, you should expect to pay it all back under the terms of your loan. This is the real world. Is it sometimes a shame? absolutely. That's why the focus should be on the real issue.... crooked universities and the insane rising tuition. 

Loan forgiveness is/was nothing more than an attempted vote grab. Solves no issues. Simply designed to make a certain group of people happy

[WhiteWonder 2,675]

4 hours ago, dogcows said:

Imagine - the recession could have been much shorter and far fewer people would have lost their homes. And the banks would still have gotten the same amount of bailout money… except it would have benefitted homeowners too. And there’s no reason they couldn’t have also tightened the lending rules along with that. The 2 aren’t mutually exclusive. 

tightening lending policies directly addresses the problem. 

giving handouts (loan forgiveness) makes some people happy but fixes nothing. In fact, it only helps show people there are no consequences for their actions. 

Sure, banks were lending to anyone and everyone but the individual homeowners were still the ones putting pen to paper, knowing full well they couldn't really afford those loans. 

[seafoam1 2,803]

5 hours ago, dogcows said:

Imagine - the recession could have been much shorter and far fewer people would have lost their homes. And the banks would still have gotten the same amount of bailout money… except it would have benefitted homeowners too. And there’s no reason they couldn’t have also tightened the lending rules along with that. The 2 aren’t mutually exclusive. 

You liberals never put the responsibility on the people themselves. It's like the whole "guns kill people" thing all over again. 

Liberals are so stupid.