Why is there so much anti-gay hatred? Woman shot and killed for having a rainbow flag in her store.

[seafoam1 3,025]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

Every university, government at every level, and corporation are bending over backwards trying to give African-Americans a leg up.  Most are not taking advantage of it.   Every other minority has risen up above the obstacles and succeeded on their own.   But for whatever reason many blacks don't value middle class success.   The majority of blacks want to hit the lottery and live the high lifestyles of big-time sports hero, or entertainer, or rap star.  There are no structural obstacles by society which keeps blacks from moving into the middle class, in fact the red carpet has been laid out to them for several decades.

It's in their genes. Plain and simple. 

[TheNewGirl 1,491]

6 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Every university, government at every level, and corporation are bending over backwards trying to give African-Americans a leg up.  Most are not taking advantage of it.   Every other minority has risen up above the obstacles and succeeded on their own.   But for whatever reason many blacks don't value middle class success.   The majority of blacks want to hit the lottery and live the high lifestyles of big-time sports hero, or entertainer, or rap star.  There are no structural obstacles by society which keeps blacks from moving into the middle class, in fact the red carpet has been laid out to them for several decades.

This is an interesting perspective that AA's don't value middle class and the drive to be an entertainer, etc. 

I do think that there is white privilege out there, for the record. 

 

 

[seafoam1 3,025]

2 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

This is an interesting perspective that AA's don't value middle class and the drive to be an entertainer, etc. 

I do think that there is white privilege out there, for the record. 

 

 

And the majority are democrat politicians like hillary, joe, and newsom. 

[Mike Hunt 282]

21 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Every university, government at every level, and corporation are bending over backwards trying to give African-Americans a leg up.  Most are not taking advantage of it.   Every other minority has risen up above the obstacles and succeeded on their own.   But for whatever reason many blacks don't value middle class success.   The majority of blacks want to hit the lottery and live the high lifestyles of big-time sports hero, or entertainer, or rap star.  There are no structural obstacles by society which keeps blacks from moving into the middle class, in fact the red carpet has been laid out to them for several decades.

I helped coach JV football and basketball for 3 years when in college.  School/players were 75% black.

Almost every player on the JV teams, not varsity thought they would get a full ride to a D1 school and have a chance at the NFL-NBA eventually.  I am talking about kids who were not that good and had zero chance of playing football/BB anywhere but a pickup game after HS. most of the kids got out of HS, not playing sports and are still living in the same area they grew up in at 25-30 years old.

I asked the varsity HCs how we can change this mindset.  Said he has tried but it is even worse now than a decade ago.  

So not sure how that can change to education, then football/BB.    

 

[squistion 2,202]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’m guessing domestic. 

You're probably guessing wrong. The shooter got into an argument with her outside her store over the Rainbow Flag she displayed. Doesn't sound like something she knew or had a domestic relationship with. 

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

And... here we see encapsulated the reason why African Americans will never succeed as a group in this country.  It's just not their fault.  Not at all.  It's all us whitey's faults.  

Notice I said AAs; Nigerians kick ass, which has been discussed here.  Then again, they have a commitment to education, family, and personal responsibility. 

Ignore that, it's 100% whitey's fault.   

And this is why I don’t like simplistic arguments. I never wrote that it’s 100% whitey’s fault. I wrote that white racism against blacks has been and is the MAIN culprit- but it’s not the only culprit. 

And yes you raise a good point that all too often many black people, as well as liberals, use racism as a crutch rather than an impetus. But that doesn’t mean the racism doesn’t exist. 

You are also correct to point out the success of Nigerian immigrants in this country. But that fact suggests to me something quite different than what it might to you: to me, it suggests that the racism in this country is so deeply rooted that it has created attitudes and personality traits among its victims that are hard to break. Immigrants who are new to this country are immune to such history; that’s one reason, among many, that we will always need new immigrants. 

Lastly you’ll note in my commentary that I don’t offer solutions. Conservatives argue that liberals have spent billions over the last few decades attempting to improve the situation of African-Americans, and it hasn’t worked. If anything, some of the worst areas (like parts of Chicago) are worse than before. I think conservatives have a point here. I maybe a liberal but I also try to be realistic. If it ain’t working it ain’t working. But it’s still a big problem and we need to find a way to try to fix it. My impression is that conservatives attack the liberal solutions (with some merit) but fail to offer ideas of their own. 

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

1 hour ago, Dizkneelande said:

 I 100% blame Democrats.

And you’re not far off. Throughout most of our history the Democratic Party has been the main culprit for racism against black people. From slavery to Jim Crow up until the mid sixties, the Democrats were the bad guys on this issue and the Republicans were the heroes. 
 

But over the last 50 years the roles have completely reversed. 

[TheNewGirl 1,491]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

 

Lastly you’ll note in my commentary that I don’t offer solutions. Conservatives argue that liberals have spent billions over the last few decades attempting to improve the situation of African-Americans, and it hasn’t worked. If anything, some of the worst areas (like parts of Chicago) are worse than before. I think conservatives have a point here. I maybe a liberal but I also try to be realistic. If it ain’t working it ain’t working. But it’s still a big problem and we need to find a way to try to fix it. My impression is that conservatives attack the liberal solutions (with some merit) but fail to offer ideas of their own. 

So....you're a liberal and have no solutions, but also say conservatives don't offer any either...sooo??? 

IMO, the liberal solution is to throw more money at it, create special groups and committees, etc. And throw more money at it. I.e Reparations; here's some free money. Won't get rid of your situation, or really improve your situation other than now you can go and buy that sweet sweet Caddy. But, umm...here's some money. 

And you can't say, "Here's some money, now go better yourself!" Reparations isn't going to fix this either. 

[Mike Hunt 282]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

And this is why I don’t like simplistic arguments. I never wrote that it’s 100% whitey’s fault. I wrote that white racism against blacks has been and is the MAIN culprit- but it’s not the only culprit. 

And yes you raise a good point that all too often many black people, as well as liberals, use racism as a crutch rather than an impetus. But that doesn’t mean the racism doesn’t exist. 

You are also correct to point out the success of Nigerian immigrants in this country. But that fact suggests to me something quite different than what it might to you: to me, it suggests that the racism in this country is so deeply rooted that it has created attitudes and personality traits among its victims that are hard to break. Immigrants who are new to this country are immune to such history; that’s one reason, among many, that we will always need new immigrants. 

Lastly you’ll note in my commentary that I don’t offer solutions. Conservatives argue that liberals have spent billions over the last few decades attempting to improve the situation of African-Americans, and it hasn’t worked. If anything, some of the worst areas (like parts of Chicago) are worse than before. I think conservatives have a point here. I maybe a liberal but I also try to be realistic. If it ain’t working it ain’t working. But it’s still a big problem and we need to find a way to try to fix it. My impression is that conservatives attack the liberal solutions (with some merit) but fail to offer ideas of their own. 

 

One problem is "If you don`t vote Dem, you aint black" mentality.  The dem way has not worked for black folk.    Not sure the other way will work but we do know what has failed over and over again. 

[Dizkneelande 1,101]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

And you’re not far off. Throughout most of our history the Democratic Party has been the main culprit for racism against black people. From slavery to Jim Crow up until the mid sixties, the Democrats were the bad guys on this issue and the Republicans were the heroes. 
 

But over the last 50 years the roles have completely reversed. 

Yeah we’ve been over this and it’s another thing you are completely wrong about and have zero facts to assert your claims. Democrats held majorities in the south up until the early 2000s. They sure took a long a$$ time to switch to republicans.

Answer me this, African Americans vote to be governed 100% by Democrats. This is a fact. If they are 100% governed from the left, how is their quality of life affected by Republicans?

[Dizkneelande 1,101]

Tim completely derailed another thread because he can’t make it about horrible conservatives.

[jonmx 2,429]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

And you’re not far off. Throughout most of our history the Democratic Party has been the main culprit for racism against black people. From slavery to Jim Crow up until the mid sixties, the Democrats were the bad guys on this issue and the Republicans were the heroes. 
 

But over the last 50 years the roles have completely reversed. 

The roles are actually exactly the same.   The Republicans want equality and individual liberty and responsibility, while the Democrats seek a big centralized government solution where the nanny state is needed to keep this institution of racism alive.   The only difference is the left flipped from the whites being the superior privileged race to the blacks being the superior privileged race.   The authoritarian racist bastards need to have an enemy to survive.   The Democrats can not afford to let the people unite.   It is division and fear that is used to keep the power and size of the executive branch growing.

[avoiding injuries 1,580]

17 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

 

One problem is "If you don`t vote Dem, you aint black" mentality.  The dem way has not worked for black folk.    Not sure the other way will work but we do know what has failed over and over again. 

Why do you think their go to is calling republicans racist? It’s better to side with policies that don’t work and eventually hold you back than to side with RaCiStS. 

[TheNewGirl 1,491]

4 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

Why do you think their go to is calling republicans racist? It’s better to side with policies that don’t work and eventually hold you back than to side with RaCiStS. 

Of course it is, because it doesn't serve you to try and vote for policies that will make things better for you. Being held back is working. 

[WatsonRules 46]

26 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

So....you're a liberal and have no solutions, but also say conservatives don't offer any either...sooo??? 

IMO, the liberal solution is to throw more money at it, create special groups and committees, etc. And throw more money at it. I.e Reparations; here's some free money. Won't get rid of your situation, or really improve your situation other than now you can go and buy that sweet sweet Caddy. But, umm...here's some money. 

And you can't say, "Here's some money, now go better yourself!" Reparations isn't going to fix this either. 

Meh, you won't find much Democratic support for reparations outside of California.

[TheNewGirl 1,491]

Just now, WatsonRules said:

Meh, you won't find much Democratic support for reparations outside of California.

According to the Gov, though, CA leads the nation in several areas and this is one of them.   When he's POTUS he will give reparations to all, I am sure. 

[WatsonRules 46]

Just now, TheNewGirl said:

According to the Gov, though, CA leads the nation in several areas and this is one of them.   When he's POTUS he will give reparations to all, I am sure. 

Two things I think here: He probably won't ever be President, and if he is, that's not something he can do unilaterally.

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

2 hours ago, WatsonRules said:

Two things I think here: He probably won't ever be President, and if he is, that's not something he can do unilaterally.

I don’t believe Newsom supports reparations anyhow. 

[League Champion 1,911]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe Newsom supports reparations anyhow. 

Well, he does give out free needles to all citizens though. NO plastic straws however. 

[Strike 5,547]

16 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe Newsom supports reparations anyhow. 

He will if he thinks it will help him politically.

[seafoam1 3,025]

23 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe Newsom supports reparations anyhow. 

Governor Newsom Announces Appointments to First-in-the-Nation Task Force to Study Reparations for African Americans

SACRAMENTO – As the country continues to confront a history of racial injustice, deeply rooted in the legacy of slavery and systemic racism, today, Governor Gavin Newsom appointed five individuals to serve on the newly formed Task Force to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African Americans. The formation of this task force was made possible by the Governor’s signing of AB 3121, authored by then-Assemblymember Shirley Weber (D-San Diego), which established a nine-member task force to inform Californians about slavery and explore ways the state might provide reparations.

“California is leading the nation, in a bipartisan way, on the issue of reparations and racial justice, which is a discussion that is long overdue and deserves our utmost attention,” said Governor Newsom. “Last year, I signed into law a number of key bills focused on leveling the playing field in our society and ensuring that everyone has a fair shot at achieving the California dream. Today’s appointment of individuals with an expansive breadth of knowledge, experiences and understanding of issues impacting the African American community is the next step in our commitment as a state to build a California for all.”

The five individuals selected by the Governor to serve on this task force represent diverse backgrounds and meet the statutes required by law, which include choosing one candidate from the field of academia with expertise in civil rights and an additional two appointees selected from major civil society and reparations organizations that have historically championed the cause of reparatory justice.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

26 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t believe Newsom supports reparations anyhow. 

This blabber mouth actually lives in California and hasn’t a clue. 

[League Champion 1,911]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

This blabber mouth actually lives in California and hasn’t a clue. 

They support other things as well. 

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

That’s gonna leave a mark 

[seafoam1 3,025]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

This blabber mouth actually lives in California and hasn’t a clue. 

And he's so focking grossly opinionated about it.

[League Champion 1,911]

21 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

And he's so focking grossly opinionated about it.

 

[jerryskids 6,799]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

And this is why I don’t like simplistic arguments. I never wrote that it’s 100% whitey’s fault. I wrote that white racism against blacks has been and is the MAIN culprit- but it’s not the only culprit. 

And yes you raise a good point that all too often many black people, as well as liberals, use racism as a crutch rather than an impetus. But that doesn’t mean the racism doesn’t exist. 

You are also correct to point out the success of Nigerian immigrants in this country. But that fact suggests to me something quite different than what it might to you: to me, it suggests that the racism in this country is so deeply rooted that it has created attitudes and personality traits among its victims that are hard to break. Immigrants who are new to this country are immune to such history; that’s one reason, among many, that we will always need new immigrants. 

Lastly you’ll note in my commentary that I don’t offer solutions. Conservatives argue that liberals have spent billions over the last few decades attempting to improve the situation of African-Americans, and it hasn’t worked. If anything, some of the worst areas (like parts of Chicago) are worse than before. I think conservatives have a point here. I maybe a liberal but I also try to be realistic. If it ain’t working it ain’t working. But it’s still a big problem and we need to find a way to try to fix it. My impression is that conservatives attack the liberal solutions (with some merit) but fail to offer ideas of their own. 

I appreciate the response, thanks.   

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

 

8 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

And this is why I don’t like simplistic arguments. I never wrote that it’s 100% whitey’s fault. I wrote that white racism against blacks has been and is the MAIN culprit- but it’s not the only culprit. 

And yes you raise a good point that all too often many black people, as well as liberals, use racism as a crutch rather than an impetus. But that doesn’t mean the racism doesn’t exist. 

You are also correct to point out the success of Nigerian immigrants in this country. But that fact suggests to me something quite different than what it might to you: to me, it suggests that the racism in this country is so deeply rooted that it has created attitudes and personality traits among its victims that are hard to break. Immigrants who are new to this country are immune to such history; that’s one reason, among many, that we will always need new immigrants. 

Lastly you’ll note in my commentary that I don’t offer solutions. Conservatives argue that liberals have spent billions over the last few decades attempting to improve the situation of African-Americans, and it hasn’t worked. If anything, some of the worst areas (like parts of Chicago) are worse than before. I think conservatives have a point here. I maybe a liberal but I also try to be realistic. If it ain’t working it ain’t working. But it’s still a big problem and we need to find a way to try to fix it. My impression is that conservatives attack the liberal solutions (with some merit) but fail to offer ideas of their own. 

 

40 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I appreciate the response, thanks.   

Tim - are you actually suggesting that Nigerians - and people in Africa - haven't experience slavery?  JHC, It's literally going on right now (not to mention most of their history too) and something that has NOT been going on in the USA for over 150 years.  People coming from Africa have absolutely experienced the same. It is LITERALLY one of the reasons they come to the US today - to escape the slavery, poverty and war.

While I appreciate your post, the excuse-making that is going on in it is at 11.  I would posit that the Africans coming over here today have had it FAR, FAR worse than any black person alive in America today.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Have the identified the dead 27 year old shooter yet?

[Mike Hunt 282]

23 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

Have the identified the dead 27 year old shooter yet?

 

Yes.  Travis Ikeguci.    Non-whitey.  

[Ultra Max Power 214]

9 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

 

Yes.  Travis Ikeguci.    Non-whitey.  

Thanks.  And I see he used a non-registered firearm.  

Who radicalized him and gave him a gun?!?!

[Boots11234 108]

13 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

 

Yes.  Travis Ikeguci.    Non-whitey.  

Guess this kinda shoots down Timmy’s argument. He’s so stupid. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

He was Asian.  They are also generally intolerant of LGBTQ. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

22 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

 

Yes.  Travis Ikeguci.    Non-whitey.  

And once again, we find out later when it’s not a white guy. Like clockwork.  

[Mike Hunt 282]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

And once again, we find out later when it’s not a white guy. Like clockwork.  

It was obvious the guy was not white when they kept saying "man was shot by police"  "Man shot store owner."

[The Real timschochet 6,765]

1 hour ago, Boots11234 said:

Guess this kinda shoots down Timmy’s argument. He’s so stupid. 

When did I ever bring up white people? It’s about anti-gay hatred. 

[TimHauck 2,876]

12 hours ago, jerryskids said:

It's hard for any person of one race to make friends with strangers from another race.  Are you saying that a white kid walking into an all-black classroom would be welcomed with open arms?  

Also bad data can be wrong in either direction, as you well know.  My sense was that they were too high, given the relative crime rates.

No.  But the thing about being a minority is, there are less of them.  So in general whites are more likely to see other whites.

Data “can” be wrong in either direction, but again, the guy quoted in the article clearly believed they were too low.  And again, I don’t see a valid argument for why the data would be off moreso for anti-LGBTQ crimes compared to other groups for a 1-year period.

I noticed you didn’t respond to me quoting you saying “black disadvantage is a real thing,” and then claiming you never said blacks were at a disadvantage.  I look forward to your quibbling over words, if you don’t ignore this like most righties here do when they’re wrong.

 

[TimHauck 2,876]

16 hours ago, League Champion said:

Know your history. There were white slaves in the United States long before the Africans. 

https://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves11.htm

Again, saying “well there were white slaves too!” (Lol, this reminds of “BUT CHICAGO!!”) is far different than the fact that most black Americans are actually descendants of slaves in the Americas.
 

12 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

So, you've never seen the pictures on Ellis Island or around New York and the colonies that had signs that said, "NO IRISH" or anything like that? Perhaps there weren't "laws" specifically in place, but to call other forms of discrimination just "history" because the individuals weren't the correct color is just astounding to me. 

How about Native Americans? I'd MUCH rather pay them reparations, honestly. Especially out here in CA. If you read some of the stories of how tribes were completely obliterated as settlers traveled west, it's nauseating. Just come in and murder hundreds of people. Didn't bother to make them slaves, just killed them off. I often wonder why we don't focus on that part of American history and who is owed something. 

C’mon, there is no comparison between people being discriminated against because they were Irish, and being bought, sold and treated like cattle.

There have been some reparations for Native Americans.  Probably not enough though.

[TimHauck 2,876]

10 hours ago, Dizkneelande said:

 

Answer me this, African Americans vote to be governed 100% by Democrats. This is a fact. 

No blacks vote for Republicans?

[TimHauck 2,876]

12 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because the central point, which you blindly refuse to accept, is that blacks people are not to blame for their own problems. They have been, are, and continue to be victims of white oppression and racism. This is the main reason for their overall poverty, any tendency towards violence and crime, and any inequities they suffer. 

This is where you lose me.  I agree they have historically been victims of oppression and racism.  So when blacks do succeed, they likely had to work harder to do so than their white counterparts. But if they don’t succeed, that doesn’t excuse violent crime.