Secret service agent feet from JFK disputes magic bullet theory

[IGotWorms 4,057]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/09/us/politics/jfk-assassination-witness-paul-landis.html
 

He still remembers the first gunshot. For an instant, standing on the running board of the motorcade car, he entertained the vain hope that maybe it was just a firecracker or a blown tire. But he knew guns and he knew better. Then came another shot. And another. And the president slumped down.

For so many nights afterward, he relived that grisly moment in his dreams. Now, 60 years later, Paul Landis, one of the Secret Service agents just feet away from President John F. Kennedy on that fateful day in Dallas, is telling his story in full for the first time. And in at least one key respect, his account differs from the official version in a way that may change the understanding of what happened in Dealey Plaza.

. . .

What it comes down to is a copper-jacketed 6.5-millimeter projectile. The Warren Commission decided that one of the bullets fired that day struck the president from behind, exited from the front of his throat and continued on to hit Mr. Connally, somehow managing to injure his back, chest, wrist and thigh. It seemed incredible that a single bullet could do all that, so skeptics called it the magic bullet theory.

Investigators came to that conclusion partly because the bullet was found on a stretcher believed to have held Mr. Connally at Parkland Memorial Hospital, so they assumed it had exited his body during efforts to save his life. But Mr. Landis, who was never interviewed by the Warren Commission, said that is not what happened.

In fact, he said, he was the one who found the bullet — and he found it not in the hospital near Mr. Connally but in the presidential limousine lodged in the back of the seat behind where Kennedy was sitting.

When he spotted the bullet after the motorcade arrived at the hospital, he said he grabbed it to thwart souvenir hunters. Then, for reasons that still seem fuzzy even to him, he said he entered the hospital and placed it next to Kennedy on the president’s stretcher, assuming it could somehow help doctors figure out what happened. At some point, he now guesses, the stretchers must have been pushed together and the bullet was shaken from one to another.

 

 

Maybe Ted Cruz’s dad was the assassin!  

[jonmx 2,424]

Well it was not LHO, who was on the first floor eating lunch before he went up to the coke machine on the second floor.   A guy named Mac Wallace was on the 6th floor with another shooter who looked like Oswald.  Numerous witness place multiple people on the 6th floor.

Need to find a better description of where he found the bullet.   If he really means the back seat or the back of the front seat.  The way he worded it, that would have to have been a bullet fire from the front.   But I think he meant the back of the front seat. 

Of course he will be dismissed because he is writing a book.  The only books we can really trust are books by CIA operatives like Posner.  

[Hardcore troubadour 14,987]

Left wing violence.  It’s always been a big issue. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,879]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Left wing violence.  It’s always been a big issue. 

So much so that they've had to manufacture a "OMG!  The white power movement is taking over America!  Everyone - look at that shiny object!!!!" (which, is funny, because they created the white power movement) narrative to distract people from focusing on the real issue - which is the left wing violence and authoritarianism as they move further and further left.  The Democrat Party is going to need a name change in the next 5-10 years. 

[jonmx 2,424]

15 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

So much so that they've had to manufacture a "OMG!  The white power movement is taking over America!  Everyone - look at that shiny object!!!!" (which, is funny, because they created the white power movement) narrative to distract people from focusing on the real issue - which is the left wing violence and authoritarianism as they move further and further left.  The Democrat Party is going to need a name change in the next 5-10 years. 

 

Unfortunately the authoritarianism also has a hold of enough of the GOP (establishment types and 'moderates') that there still needs a sizeable shift in public opinion and makeup of the legislature branch before meaningful change can occur.  The vast majority of Americans use to value freedom, equality and independence.  But today there is more emphasis on protection and control and equity.  The enemy should not be the left or Democrats, the enemy is the authoritarians, which happens to have currently won the hearts and minds of far too many people, especially on the left.  Their main tool is fear and divisiveness.

[Mike Honcho 5,138]

3 posts to go from JFK assassination to blaming Dems.   

[Hardcore troubadour 14,987]

20 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

3 posts to go from JFK assassination to blaming Dems.   

Left wing. Oswald wasn’t? 

[The Real timschochet 6,510]

Is this the guy Clint Eastwood played? Good movie. 

[jonmx 2,424]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Left wing. Oswald wasn’t? 

 

Oswald was just a CIA goon following orders.  Top Secret clearance working in U2 spy program.  Naval intelligence taught him Russian and trained him to be defector/spy.  Paid his way to get to Russia and paid for his return.  His politics were whatever he was told.   He played anti-commie war games while spreading pro-Castro fliers.  De Mohrenschildt and Michael Paine were Oswald CIA handlers who gave him orders.

LBJ, Allen Dulles, and big oil including the Hunts and D.H. Byrd were main players in the assassination.   Corrupt, Greedy, power-hungry psychopaths.  Thought nothing of killing people to get their way and protect their butts.  They were not driven by left or right politics, but greed and power.  

[posty 2,614]

This is a great read about Howard Donahue, a ballistics expert, and his results on who killed JFK…

https://www.amazon.com/Mortal-Error-Shot-That-Killed/dp/149095242X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=Mortal+error&qid=1694362642&sr=8-1

[jonmx 2,424]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Is this the guy Clint Eastwood played? Good movie. 

The best strategy for you is to deflect and ignore.  The lynch pin of Oswald acted alone is the magic bullet and if the bullet was found in the rear seat, there is no magic bullet and there was at least a second shooter.  The bullet which hit Connelly was left in his leg as many of his relatives say.  Keep your faith in government propaganda.  It is all a big lie.  

[jonmx 2,424]

1 hour ago, posty said:

This is a great read about Howard Donahue, a ballistics expert, and his results on who killed JFK…

https://www.amazon.com/Mortal-Error-Shot-That-Killed/dp/149095242X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=Mortal+error&qid=1694362642&sr=8-1

That theory is a bit laughable. People would have seen and heard a shot fired from the Limo behind JFK.  Also the Limo did not speed up until after the fatal shot.  It is a red herring put out by the CIA.  The fatal head shot came from behind the picket fense of the grassy knoll as dozens of witnesses attest to.  

The bullet that Landis found was most certainly the bullet which struck JFK in the back. The bullet was a dud and only penatrated about a half inch.  The doctors who examed JFK at Dallas put their fingers in the back wound and determined that.  This explains why the bullet found by Landis was completely in tact and barely deformed.   It was not a magic bullet but a dud. 

There is no evidence except Warren Commision conjecture and impossible geometry that has the bullet existing his throat.  The throat shot was an entrance wound from the front, as stated by the first doctor and other doctors in Dallas who treated JFK.  

The autopsy (or actually autopies) which occurred in Bethesda Naval Hospital was a total fraud directed by Generals who were happy JFK was dead. 

[seafoam1 2,817]

5 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Left wing violence.  It’s always been a big issue. 

Yes it has and still is more than ever sadly. 

[posty 2,614]

4 hours ago, jonmx said:

That theory is a bit laughable. People would have seen and heard a shot fired from the Limo behind JFK.  Also the Limo did not speed up until after the fatal shot.  It is a red herring put out by the CIA.  The fatal head shot came from behind the picket fense of the grassy knoll as dozens of witnesses attest to.  

The bullet that Landis found was most certainly the bullet which struck JFK in the back. The bullet was a dud and only penatrated about a half inch.  The doctors who examed JFK at Dallas put their fingers in the back wound and determined that.  This explains why the bullet found by Landis was completely in tact and barely deformed.   It was not a magic bullet but a dud. 

There is no evidence except Warren Commision conjecture and impossible geometry that has the bullet existing his throat.  The throat shot was an entrance wound from the front, as stated by the first doctor and other doctors in Dallas who treated JFK.  

The autopsy (or actually autopies) which occurred in Bethesda Naval Hospital was a total fraud directed by Generals who were happy JFK was dead. 

Have you read the book?  The information inside is very detailed...

[thegeneral 2,987]

8 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

3 posts to go from JFK assassination to blaming Dems.   

Obama IMO

[BeenHereBefore 1,472]

5 hours ago, jonmx said:

That theory is a bit laughable. People would have seen and heard a shot fired from the Limo behind JFK.  Also the Limo did not speed up until after the fatal shot.  It is a red herring put out by the CIA.  The fatal head shot came from behind the picket fense of the grassy knoll as dozens of witnesses attest to.  

The bullet that Landis found was most certainly the bullet which struck JFK in the back. The bullet was a dud and only penatrated about a half inch.  The doctors who examed JFK at Dallas put their fingers in the back wound and determined that.  This explains why the bullet found by Landis was completely in tact and barely deformed.   It was not a magic bullet but a dud. 

There is no evidence except Warren Commision conjecture and impossible geometry that has the bullet existing his throat.  The throat shot was an entrance wound from the front, as stated by the first doctor and other doctors in Dallas who treated JFK.  

The autopsy (or actually autopies) which occurred in Bethesda Naval Hospital was a total fraud directed by Generals who were happy JFK was dead. 

But they didn't notice SS agent Greer shoting him from the limo Kennedy was in.

[jonmx 2,424]

18 hours ago, posty said:

Have you read the book?  The information inside is very detailed...

I have not read the book, but I read summaries.  I am not interested in reading a book that is based on bad data.  There are books written on what a sham the autopsy was.  Many of the official pictures were not even pictures of JFK's head and body.  They brought in someone else's brain which was completely in tact, when every doctor who saw JFK noted a large portion of the brain was missing as also evidence in the Zapruda film and the motorcycle officers who had brain matter splattered all over their clothes.  So the author acknowledges the autopsy was totally incompetent if not fraudulent, but then uses material from autopsy as if it were gospel.  Bizarre logic.

The only people who had significant brain material over their clothing were Jackie and the two Dallas motorcycle cops following behind on JFK's limo on the driver's side, which is rock solid proof the head shot came from the front and to the right (in the general direction of the picket fense on the grassy knoll where dozens of witnesses heard gunfire and saw and smelled gunsmoke).  The kill shot came from the grassy knoll area without a shawdow of a doubt.  The crowd was stopped by a phoney Secret Service agent who was never identified and the SS denies any of their agents were in that area.  

Of course doing great detective work, the FBI made sure no one took pictured and had the limo washed down to destroy any evidence.   The limo was sent to Ohio and refurbished within a week.  The most important crime scene in our nation's history and the smartest police agency in history just cleans it and wipes removes all the evidence of multiple gunshots coming from different directions. 

[jonmx 2,424]

I love the cowards thst laugh at posts.  They are so dumb and do not have any clue of the facts.  Just spineless buffoons.  

[WhiteWonder 2,682]

none of you watched Umbrella Academy? it shows everything that happened

[Thornton Melon 614]

52 minutes ago, jonmx said:

I love the cowards thst laugh at posts.  They are so dumb and do not have any clue of the facts.  Just spineless buffoons.  

Kennedy's head jerked forward first, then back. This is the result of the "jet effect" of the bullet compressing the air in front of it, then this air pushes back on the object as it exits the object (in this case, Kennedy's head). The head shot came from behind.

[Mike Hunt 264]

Took a class on the JFK assasination.

Do not know who did the shooting but LHO in no possible way acted alone. 

[jonmx 2,424]

1 hour ago, Thornton Melon said:

Kennedy's head jerked forward first, then back. This is the result of the "jet effect" of the bullet compressing the air in front of it, then this air pushes back on the object as it exits the object (in this case, Kennedy's head). The head shot came from behind.

The Zupruder film was altered in an FBI photo lab the Saturday night after the assassination as attested to by Dino Brugioni.  

The film originally had several frames which showed and explosion out of the rear of JFK.  Several frames were removed and the only remaining frame of the head shot splatter was altered with a crude job of covering up the rear explosion and replacing it with blood splatter out the front of the head.  This does not match the physical evidence which has blood splattering backwards.  Nor does it pass the smell test that such an explosion would only last a single frame.  The evidence in this case has been so distorted or destroyed by the FBI-CIA to make it very difficult to come to the correct conclusion.  Drawing too many conclusions on the movement of JFK based on the film will confuse the issue.  And that was part of what they want.  

The jet effect is a BS theory that does not apply to a human body/skull.  The skull is much harder than the skin of a melon and would dissipate for more kinetic energy away from the shot vs. a small jet effect back towards a shooter.  There is no chance the jet effect would produce enough energy to throw a human body backwards. 

[jonmx 2,424]

Of course all the dimrods just respond with an anonymous laughing emoji.  Clueless idiots who are manipulated by government propaganda.  You are being lied to by the rich and powerful.  They kill or destroy the real leaders and we are stuck with their puppets.  They play your fears as they steal your freedoms and rob your wealth.  But the fools laugh as they are loaded into the trains. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

4 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Of course all the dimrods just respond with an anonymous laughing emoji.  Clueless idiots who are manipulated by government propaganda.  You are being lied to by the rich and powerful.  They kill or destroy the real leaders and we are stuck with their puppets.  They play your fears as they steal your freedoms and rob your wealth.  But the fools laugh as they are loaded into the trains. 

I’m surprised you’ve got such a boner for JFK. You do know he was a dreaded libruhl, right?

[TheNewGirl 1,370]

On 9/10/2023 at 5:53 AM, Hardcore troubadour said:

Left wing violence.  It’s always been a big issue. 

Mostly peaceful assassination. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,321]

I was in Dallas for a birthday party years back. Was forced to go on the Jerryworld tour of the stadium and told them they owe me one. So we went to a Mexican restaurant and had margaritas and then to the Plaza.

 First thing I did was stand on the x in the road where he was hit. Looked up and realized it’s not that hard of a shot. Not as far as it looks in documentaries aThen almost got hit myself standing in the middle of the road. Then went to scope the grassy knoll myself. It’s a parking lot area now. Definitely a great vantage point for a shooter. 
 

im convinced from everything i read and then knew he didn’t act alone. Then they brought me to a bar called Oswald’s. More tequila, Lone Star beer, and theory drinking in there. 

[jonmx 2,424]

59 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I’m surprised you’ve got such a boner for JFK. You do know he was a dreaded libruhl, right?

Anti-establishment freedom-loving liberals  are awesome.  Modern liberals are leftist authoritarian bastards who are too friggin stupid to even comprehend what system of government they are promoting.  Kennedy was trying to stick it to every corrupt establishment power base there was, that is why he was killed.   It was not some lone nut as the retards believe. 

[seafoam1 2,817]

Oh boy. Another guy with an opinion on jfk getting killed. 

[Thornton Melon 614]

16 hours ago, jonmx said:

The Zupruder film was altered in an FBI photo lab the Saturday night after the assassination as attested to by Dino Brugioni.  

The film originally had several frames which showed and explosion out of the rear of JFK.  Several frames were removed and the only remaining frame of the head shot splatter was altered with a crude job of covering up the rear explosion and replacing it with blood splatter out the front of the head.  This does not match the physical evidence which has blood splattering backwards.  Nor does it pass the smell test that such an explosion would only last a single frame.  The evidence in this case has been so distorted or destroyed by the FBI-CIA to make it very difficult to come to the correct conclusion.  Drawing too many conclusions on the movement of JFK based on the film will confuse the issue.  And that was part of what they want.  

The jet effect is a BS theory that does not apply to a human body/skull.  The skull is much harder than the skin of a melon and would dissipate for more kinetic energy away from the shot vs. a small jet effect back towards a shooter.  There is no chance the jet effect would produce enough energy to throw a human body backwards. 

Meh...the claims of one man don't convince me. And the film doesn't have any discontinuities that I could see that would show that frames were removed. As for the physics of his head and body movement, I've seen enough analysis from both sides with high level math, integral calculus, etc..that'll make your head spin. It's all theories that use assumptions, and the only way to prove anything is to duplicate the exact conditions, which is impossible.

I used to be a JFK conspiracy buff, right around the time Oliver Stone's movie came out. I read several books, discussed with friends, etc...I'm just not convinced any more.

[jonmx 2,424]

24 minutes ago, Thornton Melon said:

Meh...the claims of one man don't convince me. And the film doesn't have any discontinuities that I could see that would show that frames were removed. As for the physics of his head and body movement, I've seen enough analysis from both sides with high level math, integral calculus, etc..that'll make your head spin. It's all theories that use assumptions, and the only way to prove anything is to duplicate the exact conditions, which is impossible.

I used to be a JFK conspiracy buff, right around the time Oliver Stone's movie came out. I read several books, discussed with friends, etc...I'm just not convinced any more.

 

You will never be able to explain the blood splatter being back towards the motorcycle cops with a shot from the TSBD.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,488]

17 hours ago, Mike Hunt said:

Took a class on the JFK assasination.

Do not know who did the shooting but LHO in no possible way acted alone. 

I don't care about who actually pulled the trigger, I care about why they pulled the trigger.  Any person or persons, who shot at JFK isn't as important as why and how they were in that position in the first place.  They caught Oswald less than 2 hours after shooting Kennedy.  If you had just shot the President of the US are you going to hide out 5 miles away?  Even in 1963, if you had an hour head start, you still can get 40 miles away.  He was there because he was told to go there.  There is a 0% chance that the US government officials were in on it.  I'm willing to bet LBJ was behind the whole thing.

[Mike Honcho 5,138]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't care about who actually pulled the trigger, I care about why they pulled the trigger.  Any person or persons, who shot at JFK isn't as important as why and how they were in that position in the first place.  They caught Oswald less than 2 hours after shooting Kennedy.  If you had just shot the President of the US are you going to hide out 5 miles away?  Even in 1963, if you had an hour head start, you still can get 40 miles away.  He was there because he was told to go there.  There is a 0% chance that the US government officials were in on it.  I'm willing to bet LBJ was behind the whole thing.

Maybe he really really wanted to see the movie "War Is Hell".

[Thornton Melon 614]

2 hours ago, jonmx said:

 

You will never be able to explain the blood splatter being back towards the motorcycle cops with a shot from the TSBD.  

There's an old Murphy's Law for Scientists that goes something like: "Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure, temperature and other variables, the organism will do as it damn well pleases." Maybe we can apply that to bullets and human heads as well.

[BufordT 428]

Jack Ruby isn't talked about nearly as much as he should be in trying to unravel the mystery behind this assassination. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,488]

1 hour ago, Mike Honcho said:

Maybe he really really wanted to see the movie "War Is Hell".

Hope he made it in time to see the whole thing.

[posty 2,614]

1 hour ago, Mike Honcho said:

Maybe he really really wanted to see the movie "War Is Hell".

It was a double feature...

[TBayXXXVII 2,488]

1 hour ago, BufordT said:

Jack Ruby isn't talked about nearly as much as he should be in trying to unravel the mystery behind this assassination. 

Normally someone who killed an assassin would be talked about a lot.   The only reason he wouldn't be, is if there was a reason.

[jonmx 2,424]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't care about who actually pulled the trigger, I care about why they pulled the trigger.  Any person or persons, who shot at JFK isn't as important as why and how they were in that position in the first place.  They caught Oswald less than 2 hours after shooting Kennedy.  If you had just shot the President of the US are you going to hide out 5 miles away?  Even in 1963, if you had an hour head start, you still can get 40 miles away.  He was there because he was told to go there.  There is a 0% chance that the US government officials were in on it.  I'm willing to bet LBJ was behind the whole thing.

JFK created more powerful enemies that any other person in history, and many of them conspired and played a role in his assassination.

1.  Allen Dulles (fired by JFK, but still kept close ties, motal enemy).

2.  LBJ.  (Just days away from being implicated in a major corruption scheme and wanted JFK dead when he accepted the VP slot).

3.  Big Oil (Clint Murchison, H.L. Hunt, D.H. Byrd) financed much of the assassination and owned the TSBD.

4.  DoD.  (Saw JFK as pro-Commie for his plans to pull out of Vietnam).  Played huge role in botching autopsy.

5.  Hoover.  (Close friend with LBJ, used his files on JFK's affairs to force him to select LBJ).  Was well aware of the CIA's involvement, the Oswald's doubles running around, and was essential to the coverup.

There were lots of why's.  But LBJ certainly had involvement as his main henchmen, Mac Wallace, was one of the trigger men in the TSBD.  Dulles sitting on the Warren Commission and controlling every piece of evidence was the biggest farce in the history of investigations.   

[jonmx 2,424]

2 hours ago, BufordT said:

Jack Ruby isn't talked about nearly as much as he should be in trying to unravel the mystery behind this assassination. 

He threatened to tell before he died/killed, but only stated it went up to the highest levels of government.  Ruby had ties to the Mob, CIA and Big Oil and was involved in some gun-running for the anti-castro efforts involving all of those players.  

[Mike Honcho 5,138]