Can We Now Say Justin Herbert Is A Average QB ?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

Chargers have not had a running game his career so far, yes Ekeler is great in fantasy but they never have big rushing games

if you list him anywhere under 7, you are biased

Mahomes

Allen

Hurts

definitely better

Burrow, Tua, Herbert next tier

There aren't any QB's better than those 6

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

5 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Chargers have not had a running game his career so far, yes Ekeler is great in fantasy but they never have big rushing games

if you list him anywhere under 7, you are biased

Mahomes

Allen

Hurts

definitely better

Burrow, Tua, Herbert next tier

There aren't any QB's better than those 6

 

 Not seeing a lot of daylight between Herbert and Kirk Cousins right now.  

[GutterBoy 2,281]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Not seeing a lot of daylight between Herbert and Kirk Cousins right now.  

Just when I thought we'd seen all the idiotic takes

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Just when I thought we'd seen all the idiotic takes

What would like you to go off of? Stats ? Wins?  Where is the gap? 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Not seeing a lot of daylight between Herbert and Kirk Cousins right now.  

Herbert on year 4 and shreds Cousins year in and out, Cousins at year 12 no where to go upside, but its a fair comparison and not a bad one

to be fair I have Cousins 7/8 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HerbJu00.htm

 

[GutterBoy 2,281]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

What would like you to go off of? Stats ? Wins?  Where is the gap? 

How about the eye test?  See people who watch football can see when a QB is good vs an average Joe.

If you wanna go by next gen stats or composite stats (Pff grade, QBR), Herbert ranks ahead of Cousins.

[Voltaire 4,564]

Cousins is a good/solid/above average QB but not on the level of Herbert.

[GutterBoy 2,281]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

Cousins is a good/solid/above average QB but not on the level of Herbert.

Well, you also think Geno Smith is a better QB than Joe Burrow.

[BeenHereBefore 1,336]

Purdy needs to be rank higher and yes system QB in a fine situation but so was Tom Brady most of his career. Tom on another team most of his career, not the GOAT.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

21 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

How about the eye test?  See people who watch football can see when a QB is good vs an average Joe.

If you wanna go by next gen stats or composite stats (Pff grade, QBR), Herbert ranks ahead of Cousins.

Your eyes? You said Evan Neal was a “rising star”.  Lol. 

[GutterBoy 2,281]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You said Evan Neal was a “rising star”.  Lol. 

link?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

I am gonna have to cede this one who thinks that scrub 3rd string QB from Cleveland is worth a 1st and 2nd round pick

 

[Voltaire 4,564]

5 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

Well, you also think Geno Smith is a better QB than Joe Burrow.

 

 

111

164

67.7%

1,169 yards

7.1avg

5 TDs

3 INTs

90.7 QB Rating

 

  This is Geno Smith over five games (Seattle has had a bye) . It's not fair to compare him directly to QBs who've played six games unless you pump his stats a smidgen to extrapolate a 6th game.

Below are three QBs who have played six games. in mixed up order, one is Joe Burrow, one is Sam Howell, and the other is Jared Goff. Can you figure out who is who? 

 

145

214

67.8

1,500

7.0

9

6

90.1

147

232

63.4

1,230

5.3

7

4

79.8

141

203

69.5

1,618

8.0

11

3

105.1

--------------

Maybe you didn't notice, but the perennial disappointment and backup Geno has been playing some outstanding football recently and turned his career around this last season and a third. Meanwhile Burrow use to be top six but -another thing you may not have noticed- in 2023 Burrow has been bad to average, mostly bad, all year except against the Cardinals. His first game he threw for 82 yards, that should have been a wake up call. A one off? Well, when his 2nd game went only slightly better, there was a problem, I recalibrated my opinion on Burrow now that we know that his AFC central rivals have figured him out. He appears to be on a downward trajectory in 2023 and the only reason he's still ranked that high is based on his success from previous years. 

I'm rooting for him to get his magic back soon since his next game after the bye is against the 49ers. That's lots of time for a good QB to prepare against a team I'd like to see lose. But thus far, this is not the Joe Burrow we've been seeing and frankly, I have far more hopes that Geno can find a way to off the 49ers than Burrow can.

Also, the top is Howell, the middle is Burrow, the bottom is Goff. Through 1/3 of the season, even Sam Howell is outperforming Burrow by a fairly large margin, neither close to the pace of Goff.

[GutterBoy 2,281]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

 

 

111

164

67.7%

1,169 yards

7.1avg

5 TDs

3 INTs

90.7 QB Rating

 

  This is Geno Smith over five games (Seattle has had a bye) . It's not fair to compare him directly to QBs who've played six games unless you pump his stats a smidgen to extrapolate a 6th game.

Below are three QBs who have played six games. in mixed up order, one is Joe Burrow, one is Sam Howell, and the other is Jared Goff. Can you figure out who is who? 

 

145

214

67.8

1,500

7.0

9

6

90.1

147

232

63.4

1,230

5.3

7

4

79.8

141

203

69.5

1,618

8.0

11

3

105.1

--------------

Maybe you didn't notice, but the perennial disappointment and backup Geno has been playing some outstanding football recently and turned his career around this last season and a third. Meanwhile Burrow use to be top six but -another thing you may not have noticed- in 2023 Burrow has been bad to average, mostly bad, all year except against the Cardinals. His first game he threw for 82 yards, that should have been a wake up call. A one off? Well, when his 2nd game went only slightly better, there was a problem, I recalibrated my opinion on Burrow now that we know that his AFC central rivals have figured him out. He appears to be on a downward trajectory in 2023 and the only reason he's still ranked that high is based on his success from previous years. 

I'm rooting for him to get his magic back soon since his next game after the bye is against the 49ers. That's lots of time for a good QB to prepare against a team I'd like to see lose. But thus far, this is not the Joe Burrow we've been seeing and frankly, I have far more hopes that Geno can find a way to off the 49ers than Burrow can.

Also, the top is Howell, the middle is Burrow, the bottom is Goff. Through 1/3 of the season, even Sam Howell is outperforming Burrow by a fairly large margin, neither close to the pace of Goff.

Do you even bother considering career?

You're ranking QBs based on 6 games?

Also did you know that Burrow tore his calf muscle in preseason and got zero reps, and then he tweaked it again week 2?  He's only healthy now, and has shown to be a much much better QB than Geno focking Smith, who did have a nice stretch of games in the early part of the season last year, but he fell back to Earth.

Come on man.

[Voltaire 4,564]

4 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

Do you even bother considering career?

You're ranking QBs based on 6 games?

Also did you know that Burrow tore his calf muscle in preseason and got zero reps, and then he tweaked it again week 2?  He's only healthy now, and has shown to be a much much better QB than Geno focking Smith, who did have a nice stretch of games in the early part of the season last year, but he fell back to Earth.

Come on man.

That's baked in the cake. Had I done this in August, I may have had him at 5 or so. I don't focking care.

Six is a lot of games. Burrow's dropped because he's done sh*t for five of them. Yet he's still ranked 12th, or wherever I put him, because he's had a great career. Meanwhile, unheralded guys like Howell are greatly outperforming him. Howell isn't ranked at all, but bless him, I'll give him credit for doing way better than most every other 5th round, second year guy does. 

Burrow is invited to go figure something out. It doesn't matter what I think ... go do something. Stop sucking and show a pulse. The 49ers would a great place to start. If he does, I'll boost him back up again. If he doesn't he's going to continue slowly sinking.  His 2023 floor is the Dak, Carr, Wilson, Watson, Mayfield tier, where the young future superstars we were drooling over in 2019 now reside. Geno and Goff weren't even there. They had been left for dead but wound up playing their way back UP the list, past Burrow, whose shown nothing all year.

[edjr 5,569]

2 hours ago, BeenHereBefore said:

Purdy needs to be rank higher and yes system QB in a fine situation but so was Tom Brady most of his career. Tom on another team most of his career, not the GOAT.

The Patriots never won because of Belicheat, that is pretty obvious. 

[GutterBoy 2,281]

12 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

That's baked in the cake. Had I done this in August, I may have had him at 5 or so. I don't focking care.

Six is a lot of games. Burrow's dropped because he's done sh*t for five of them. Yet he's still ranked 12th, or wherever I put him, because he's had a great career. Meanwhile, unheralded guys like Howell are greatly outperforming him. Howell isn't ranked at all, but bless him, I'll give him credit for doing way better than most every other 5th round, second year guy does. 

Burrow is invited to go figure something out. It doesn't matter what I think ... go do something. Stop sucking and show a pulse. The 49ers would a great place to start. If he does, I'll boost him back up again. If he doesn't he's going to continue slowly sinking.  His 2023 floor is the Dak, Carr, Wilson, Watson, Mayfield tier, where the young future superstars we were drooling over in 2019 now reside. Geno and Goff weren't even there. They had been left for dead but wound up playing their way back UP the list, past Burrow, whose shown nothing all year.

So your top QB list changes week by week.  That's crazy.

 

[BeenHereBefore 1,336]

26 minutes ago, edjr said:

The Patriots never won because of Belicheat, that is pretty obvious. 

It is now. Thing is he always had a great OL to block for Brady and now he has neither a good QB or good OL.

[MDC 5,895]

4 minutes ago, BeenHereBefore said:

It is now. Thing is he always had a great OL to block for Brady and now he has neither a good QB or good OL.

BB should retire. He will be dead before the Pats are relevant again. Go play with your grandkids.

[GutterBoy 2,281]

8 minutes ago, MDC said:

BB should retire. He will be dead before the Pats are relevant again. Go play with your grandkids.

Yeah his best days are behind time, it's time.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

Herbert is better than average but there are people who prop him up based on fantasy numbers. 

If we are talking right now, when healthy, for one season not taking into account age... I would take the following over him.

1. Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Burrow
4. Tua
5. Hurts
6. Rodgers
7. Stafford
8. Lawrence

9. wait for it...... GOFF....  yes, Goff. He gets no respect and is very undervalued.

I'd slide Herbert in right around here, right around Purdy and above Lamar, Cousins, Dak etc.

[MDC 5,895]

50 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Herbert is better than average but there are people who prop him up based on fantasy numbers. 

If we are talking right now, when healthy, for one season not taking into account age... I would take the following over him.

1. Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Burrow
4. Tua
5. Hurts
6. Rodgers
7. Stafford
8. Lawrence

9. wait for it...... GOFF....  yes, Goff. He gets no respect and is very undervalued.

I'd slide Herbert in right around here, right around Purdy and above Lamar, Cousins, Dak etc.

I’d put Herbert ahead of Rodgers, Stafford, TLaw and Goff and maybe Hurts of this list. 1-4 are really the only QBs who are clearly better. I’ve got Herbert in the 5-8 range.

He may be overrated but he’s definitely better than average. Some folks (not saying you) form an opinion on Tuesday based on whatever happened on Monday.

[BeenHereBefore 1,336]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Yeah his best days are behind time, it's time.

He's hanging around to beat Shula's record and with the crap team he has will be a few seasons.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

17 minutes ago, MDC said:

I’d put Herbert ahead of Rodgers, Stafford, TLaw and Goff and maybe Hurts of this list. 1-4 are really the only QBs who are clearly better. I’ve got Herbert in the 5-8 range.

He may be overrated but he’s definitely better than average. Some folks (not saying you) form an opinion on Tuesday based on whatever happened on Monday.

My ranking of him has him as better than average. A lot of the chargers struggles to get over certain humps also need to go on the coaching, of course. My rankings were based on one year and presumed health... hypothetical obviously, considering Rodgers injury. He's a good example, I think. A healthy Rodgers for one season can still make all the throws and I trust his mental/leadership/intangibles more than Herbert right now. That's really the only reason Stafford made my list too.

[GutterBoy 2,281]

2 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

My ranking of him has him as better than average. A lot of the chargers struggles to get over certain humps also need to go on the coaching, of course. My rankings were based on one year and presumed health... hypothetical obviously, considering Rodgers injury. He's a good example, I think. A healthy Rodgers for one season can still make all the throws and I trust his mental/leadership/intangibles more than Herbert right now. That's really the only reason Stafford made my list too.

We've seen the best of Rodgers and Stafford already, same goes with guys like Dak, Goff, Cousins etc.  I don't believe we've seen the best of Herbert, or even Burrow for that matter.

[Hawkeye21 1,856]

I don't what QB the Bears have, they are not going to succeed with this OL.

https://x.com/LaurenceWHolmes/status/1714343944677470212?s=20

[listen2me 23 1,546]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

We've seen the best of Rodgers and Stafford already, same goes with guys like Dak, Goff, Cousins etc.  I don't believe we've seen the best of Herbert, or even Burrow for that matter.

He said his rankings are based on 1 year.

[listen2me 23 1,546]

10 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't what QB the Bears have, they are not going to succeed with this OL.

https://x.com/LaurenceWHolmes/status/1714343944677470212?s=20

That was hilarious but I will keep the laughing at a minimal.    Looks similar to a few Packers clips I have seen this year.  4 guys on the ground 1 guy out blocking no one.   Jon Runyan Jr pulled looking like a screen and runs right into Dillon and knocks him over.   

My current pet peeve is when teams who clearly have a bad/inexperienced/injured OL and keep running screens.   Packers have ran their share.  Half have probably ended with a penalty.  I understand bad OLs need to hide their abilities.  But they also need cohesion and mental make up to time screens.  Packers don't have it especially trying to throw to NOT Aaron Jones.  Lafleur needs to try something else off the bye week.   Or maybe they have a week off to get the timing of some gimmicks. Big week for Lafleur.  Groomed QB.  Crap opponent.  A bye to get healthy and regroup.  

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

34 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

We've seen the best of Rodgers and Stafford already, same goes with guys like Dak, Goff, Cousins etc.  I don't believe we've seen the best of Herbert, or even Burrow for that matter.

reading comprehension.     I said it was a 1 year, right now (assuming health) list.  Has nothing to do with a players ceiling. 

I would agree, we have probably not seen the best of Herbert and I could make a comparison that he may be the next Stafford in terms of career trajectory. 

[GutterBoy 2,281]

34 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

reading comprehension.     I said it was a 1 year, right now (assuming health) list.  Has nothing to do with a players ceiling. 

I would agree, we have probably not seen the best of Herbert and I could make a comparison that he may be the next Stafford in terms of career trajectory. 

Just making a statement, not directed at you.  Just having a conversation.

[Captain Goomy Noomy Roo 47]

Stafford...   Looooved seeing him go to LAR and win a SB...That was well deserved.   Now Goff is getting things together with some new weapons in Detroit...We need more work on RBs but hey they are holding it together.  Fun to be a Lions fan this year after living in SE Michigan all my life.  People can make fun all they want...New coach is getting it done.

OK...  Back to the discussion  (is Dak worth a backup spot this season?)

[IGotWorms 3,317]

The issue with Herbert is he came into the league going gangbusters and everybody thought the sky was the limit. But he kinda flatlined from there. I don’t know enough to say if it’s him or the team or injuries or what. 

But anyway, he’s still definitely a top 10 QB and should be right at or outside the top 5 especially given his youth.

Mahomes is still #1 and anyone who says otherwise is smoking crack. That KC offense is a bit of a mess this year but they’re still piling up wins because with Mahomes it simply doesn’t matter how sh1tty his supporting cast is.

Hurts, really, we’re giving up on him? Owned the NFC last year and they’re still in a really good spot this year despite supposedly being a little worse. Come off it fellas.

Allen still a stud, Tua has been amazeballs the last couple years but can he keep it going? Trevor Lawrence a stud, CJ Stroud shaping up to be one too. Burrow, now there’s an interesting question what happened to him.

The rest of those guys, they aren’t winning it for you. They are varying degrees of maybe getting you over the hump if the rest of the team is great enough or at least not losing it for you. Maybe Herbert ends up at the top of this camp — it’s too early to say if he’s there or still in the franchise camp 

[Gepetto 988]

1. Patrick Mahomes II
2. Josh Allen
3. Joe Burrow
4. Tua
5. Justin Herbert
6. Jalen Hurts
7. Lamar Jackson
8. Brock Purdy
9. Jared Goff
10.Trevor Lawrence

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

Above average. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

The coach is a much bigger issue than Herbert. The play calling is continually terrible. 

[seafoam1 1,879]

Herbert kicks ass. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

48 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The coach is a much bigger issue than Herbert. The play calling is continually terrible. 

yep Ekeler sucks now too

 

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

If you were the Chargers would you trade a 1st and 2nd next year for Tyson Bagent?

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:56 PM, IGotWorms said:

The issue with Herbert is he came into the league going gangbusters and everybody thought the sky was the limit. But he kinda flatlined from there. I don’t know enough to say if it’s him or the team or injuries or what. 

But anyway, he’s still definitely a top 10 QB and should be right at or outside the top 5 especially given his youth.

Mahomes is still #1 and anyone who says otherwise is smoking crack. That KC offense is a bit of a mess this year but they’re still piling up wins because with Mahomes it simply doesn’t matter how sh1tty his supporting cast is.

Hurts, really, we’re giving up on him? Owned the NFC last year and they’re still in a really good spot this year despite supposedly being a little worse. Come off it fellas.

Allen still a stud, Tua has been amazeballs the last couple years but can he keep it going? Trevor Lawrence a stud, CJ Stroud shaping up to be one too. Burrow, now there’s an interesting question what happened to him.

The rest of those guys, they aren’t winning it for you. They are varying degrees of maybe getting you over the hump if the rest of the team is great enough or at least not losing it for you. Maybe Herbert ends up at the top of this camp — it’s too early to say if he’s there or still in the franchise camp 

I don’t recall anyone saying they were giving up on Hurts? Maybe I missed that 

not sure it’s much of a question what happened to Burrow. He’s a great QB who has been dealing with a lingering calf injury. 
 

Also don’t say “amazeballs” 

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

Lawrence has cracked himself into the top 10.